The card looks good BUT you have to wonder on a couple of things i.e fill rate and memory bandwidth. As anand mentioned it is unlikely that an 80 odd million GPU will clock that high on 0.15 (300mhz ?) and as such at some point is going to be fillrate limited? Also the current ati/nvdia cards have decent HSR which can boost performance by upto 25% so that gives the 4600 an effective bandwith of upto around 13gb/sec (v.rough estimate) so is the performance likely to be that different ? I dont think we will see a massive difference, and I doubt that the drivers are going to be upto scratch for a while in respect to games not stability/features
NFS4
No Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
- 47
- 91
NVIDIA gets most of their money from the OEM sector...not "noobs." OEM care about the fastest specs as well. Yes, noobs drive the speed increases, but I don't see that as being a bad thing. Things like nView are more catered towards the business side of things, not "noobs"
I said that if anyone can rival Matrox in features, it would be ATi. ATi has some awesome features on their cards and their DVD/video features are the best IMHO.
Well thats my point exactly: "noobs" drove the graphics industry to where it is now, as software companies, mainly M$, drove memory and processor industry to where it is now ... and eating up all our money !!!!!! 
As for the OEMs and nVidia, im not quite sure that OEMs are the biggest money source for nVidia. Can you point out some links about this? I'm going to see some reports from nVidia.
About ATI, yes, they have some nice combos and features on their boards. Agree with nView also.
I always liked the professional look and feel of Matrox products and until now they never let me down. I never liked ATI ... i consider their products too commercial (which is not a bad thing). But as your quote says, it's only my opinion.
As long as they will keep producing boards like they did till now and provide me with super quality and features and some decent 3D, i'm sold.
Cheers
BoG
As for the OEMs and nVidia, im not quite sure that OEMs are the biggest money source for nVidia. Can you point out some links about this? I'm going to see some reports from nVidia.
About ATI, yes, they have some nice combos and features on their boards. Agree with nView also.
I always liked the professional look and feel of Matrox products and until now they never let me down. I never liked ATI ... i consider their products too commercial (which is not a bad thing). But as your quote says, it's only my opinion.
As long as they will keep producing boards like they did till now and provide me with super quality and features and some decent 3D, i'm sold.
Cheers
BoG
Man, this launch blows. I've been waiting weeks for this, and all that we get is specs. No card? That means something's up. And knowing Matrox, this means it will be quite a while before we see anything. Even the specs could change at this point. Not cool.
This "launch" was never called AFAIK by Amish, or anyone on the web a "launch". There was never supposed to be any cards or benchmarks, just specs on the card. Itll be another month and a half at least before we start seeing reviews.
Now, I have read over anands review a couple times and heres my thoughts on Parhelia. I for one really am not liking the "incompatibility" issues that Anand talked about in regard to the FAA and the 10-bit color. To me, that is unacceptable at least, what is unacceptable is people having to try each of their games/programs and then when ever they want to play, they have to manually disable the FAA or enable it. Now, if Matrox put a feature in their drivers that gave each game a setting on whether FAA, Matrox's Supersampling AA, or no AA is used. And again, the 10-bit color I feel would need a similar feature. Second, I can definately see it doing extremely well in the DX8 games to come, and that is crucial to them competitng with NV30/R300. Third, I think that if it can gain enough support, Hardware Displacement Mapping is a signifcant feature and I hope it can be supported ina future version of DirectX and will be adopted by nVidia and ATi, and part of it (Depth Adaptive Tesselation) has been licenced to Microsoft. So, Matrox won't be the only one with it soon, but in any case, it is good.
Now, it could really steal alot of GF4 Ti 4600's market between now and the NV30 launch without taking into account Matrox fans wanting their latest card. I despite what Anand said, I feel that with the kind of bandwidth that Parhelia will have, it will be nearly impossible for it not to excel in older games based on the Q3A engine. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong
. I think that it does have a chance to compete performance wise with NV30/R300, however, I am very doubtful on it being successful unless it is faster than NV30 because NV30 will no doubt be much cheaper via the .13 micron process that it will likely be produced on. And also, It remains to be seen whether Matrox can keep up a product cycle like that of ATi's (forget nVidia's). If they can, they could definately hang around, but it remains to be seen whether they can or not. This is exciting to see more competition, and I definately will be looking forward to sept. when Parhelia, R300, and NV30 will clash in maybe the most competitive round of the GPU market yet. Competition is good!!!! And great job Matrox on delivering a good product and giving nVidia more competition!!! Can't wait til boards to hit in June!!
BD231
Lifer
- Feb 26, 2001
- 10,568
- 138
- 106
At this point the Parhelia is a let down. No mem bandwith saving features, added color bit's that crash simple program's, a huge price tag and driver optimization that can't touch nVidias offerings. Talk about a bad investment, this card has no longevity whatsover. To me it still looks like all they have picture quality, I guess this card is a blessing to those who still run G4-5's. Definitely not what I expected.
Wow, what a rush to judgment? many still know little about this card, more so its performance? give it time, and you?ll soon find out!
Remember, we?re not all gamers here, matrox has always offered the best in IQ and 2D? I don?t see anything different with this new card. I also have not heard yet, that this card was solely targeted towards the gamers market, actually I don?t believe it is.
This is a big step in the right direction for Matrox, considering their G450-550 line of cards.
However I do agree with the price, I sure hope it?ll come down for Matrox?s sake!
Btw, drivers have never been an issue for Matrox. When I had my G400, there were always new drivers coming out.
No mem bandwidth saving features Yeah, that would be nice, but they didn't have die room and with 20GB, do they really need it??
added color bits that crash simple program's That's not Matrox's fault. The gaming arena keeps saying they need a higher color depth and Matrox tried to accomodate them. It's not their fault that some 2D apps have a conflict with this.
Huge pricetag not as compared to some of the 3D Labs cards that it is made to compete with and there will be different models at a later date. I've heard price ranges from $300-$500 on launch. We'll see when it happens.
driver optimisations that can't touch Nvidia's offerings I have no idea what you're talking about. What do you, or anybody else, know about the drivers for Parhelia??
amish
Adul
Elite Member
Yea, but the reality is that nVidia's drivers are to a point where they are very optimized. Thats a huge reason why the R8500 isn't ahead of the Gf3 Ti 500 like it should be, and I can see nVidia's drivers being a factor. Amish's right, nobody's seen the final drivers yet, but if I were to lean one way, I would lean towards nVidia's drivers giving them a edge.
BD231
Lifer
- Feb 26, 2001
- 10,568
- 138
- 106
Wow, what a rush to judgment? many still know little about this card, more so its performance? give it time, and you?ll soon find out!
Remember, we?re not all gamers here, matrox has always offered the best in IQ and 2D? I don?t see anything different with this new card. I also have not heard yet, that this card was targeted towards the gamers market, actually I don?t believe it is.
This is a big step in the right direction for Matrox, considering their G450-550 line of cards.
However I do agree with the price, I sure hope it?ll come down for Matrox?s sake!
Well it's not so much a rush of judgment, it's more of a rush of dissapointment. As for performance, this statement reminded me of the GeForce 3:
- In "simple" games like Quake III Arena, the Parhelia-512 will definitely lose out to the GeForce4 Ti 4600. By simple we mean games that generally use no more than two textures and are currently bound by fill rate. NVIDIA's drivers are highly optimized (much more so than Matrox's) and in situations where the majority of the Parhelia's execution power is going unused, it will lose out to the Ti 4600. This can change by turning on anisotropic filtering and antialiasing however, where the balance will begin to tilt in favor of the Parhelia.
I cant help but think that this card needs optimized games in order function at it's full potential by this statement. This statement gives a little hope:
- In stressful DX8 games, Matrox expects the Parhelia-512 to take the gold - either performing on par or outperforming the GeForce4 Ti 4600. Once again, as soon as you enable better texture filtering algorithms and antialiasing the Parhelia-512 should begin to seriously separate itself from the Ti 4600. The quad-texturing capabilities of the core as well as the 5-stage pixel shaders will be very handy in games coming out over the next several months.
Then this statement rips away all hope and value of the card in my eye's:
- The Parhelia-512 has the ability to take the short-term performance crown away from NVIDIA.
But this is from a gamers perspective. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I do game from time to time, and if I was buying a card that would last me for some time to come, this card would not be the card to buy. I do realize that not all people who use computers are gamers, but I'm not one of those people, just like a vast amount of other people out there as well. If I was in a position where I wasn't in to gaming, this card would then be overkill.
Remember, we?re not all gamers here, matrox has always offered the best in IQ and 2D? I don?t see anything different with this new card. I also have not heard yet, that this card was targeted towards the gamers market, actually I don?t believe it is.
This is a big step in the right direction for Matrox, considering their G450-550 line of cards.
However I do agree with the price, I sure hope it?ll come down for Matrox?s sake!
Well it's not so much a rush of judgment, it's more of a rush of dissapointment. As for performance, this statement reminded me of the GeForce 3:
- In "simple" games like Quake III Arena, the Parhelia-512 will definitely lose out to the GeForce4 Ti 4600. By simple we mean games that generally use no more than two textures and are currently bound by fill rate. NVIDIA's drivers are highly optimized (much more so than Matrox's) and in situations where the majority of the Parhelia's execution power is going unused, it will lose out to the Ti 4600. This can change by turning on anisotropic filtering and antialiasing however, where the balance will begin to tilt in favor of the Parhelia.
I cant help but think that this card needs optimized games in order function at it's full potential by this statement. This statement gives a little hope:
- In stressful DX8 games, Matrox expects the Parhelia-512 to take the gold - either performing on par or outperforming the GeForce4 Ti 4600. Once again, as soon as you enable better texture filtering algorithms and antialiasing the Parhelia-512 should begin to seriously separate itself from the Ti 4600. The quad-texturing capabilities of the core as well as the 5-stage pixel shaders will be very handy in games coming out over the next several months.
Then this statement rips away all hope and value of the card in my eye's:
- The Parhelia-512 has the ability to take the short-term performance crown away from NVIDIA.
But this is from a gamers perspective. I'm not a hardcore gamer, but I do game from time to time, and if I was buying a card that would last me for some time to come, this card would not be the card to buy. I do realize that not all people who use computers are gamers, but I'm not one of those people, just like a vast amount of other people out there as well. If I was in a position where I wasn't in to gaming, this card would then be overkill.
BD231
Lifer
- Feb 26, 2001
- 10,568
- 138
- 106
I have no idea what you're talking about. What do you, or anybody else, know about the drivers for Parhelia??
Amish
- In "simple" games like Quake III Arena, the Parhelia-512 will definitely lose out to the GeForce4 Ti 4600. By simple we mean games that generally use no more than two textures and are currently bound by fill rate. NVIDIA's drivers are highly optimized (much more so than Matrox's) and in situations where the majority of the Parhelia's execution power is going unused, it will lose out to the Ti 4600. This can change by turning on anisotropic filtering and antialiasing however, where the balance will begin to tilt in favor of the Parhelia.
Amish
- In "simple" games like Quake III Arena, the Parhelia-512 will definitely lose out to the GeForce4 Ti 4600. By simple we mean games that generally use no more than two textures and are currently bound by fill rate. NVIDIA's drivers are highly optimized (much more so than Matrox's) and in situations where the majority of the Parhelia's execution power is going unused, it will lose out to the Ti 4600. This can change by turning on anisotropic filtering and antialiasing however, where the balance will begin to tilt in favor of the Parhelia.
Originally posted by: bdog231
Originally posted by: joohang
This card is looking sweeter as I read more about it.
I want some benchies.
What is making feel this card is so sweet?(honest question here, I'm not being a smart ass
I love Matrox's multi-display features.
I love Matrox's 2D at high resolutions.
This card will likely improve on the existing 2D quality of Gxxx series.
I was getting into some gaming so I thought about building a second gaming machine with an ATI/nVIDIA card and use Matrox on my "workstation." But I no longer have to.
Despite the hype and exaggeration, the stuff I read so far seem to promise at least a decent 3D performance.
And I've always wanted to play Flight Simulator with a triple-monitor setup.
BTW, is that possible right now?Man hate having to quote long post
Dude, you are taking the early (yes, early being the key word) impressions of the card and quoting people like some plague! You need to give this card more time; there are no official benchmarks yet! The drivers for this card are probably soooo beta that it won?t be till at least a few more months before they finally get all the bugs, and other features worked out.
As for optimized games, so what? That?s nothing new! Obviously when a game developer implements, and optimizes something in their game it?s for a pretty good reason. It usually means a better gaming experience for the gamer, you know T&L, vertex shaders, EMBM etc? like I said nothing new.
To get disappointed this early in the game is mind-boggling, I would think any enthusiast would need to review this card first before making any type of informed decision? more so from a gamer?s perspective.
My take on Parhelia:
If you absolutely desire triple monitor support, razor-sharp 2D, great 3D, and are willing to spend whatever it takes, go with Parhelia.
Otherwise, I don't see what the attraction is otherwise.
Best case scenario: Parhelia hits the market in June, the drivers are decently mature, and the pricetag is $400-450 as has been reported by many web sites.
Even in the best case scenario, Parhelia will not be the best buy for most people (including OEM's and almost all gamers). Considering there will be no lost-cost version of Parhelia anytime soon, considering a GeForce4 Ti4600 will likely be around $250 while Parhelia will be $400, and considering NV30 and R300 will be out within a matter of a couple months after that, it doesn't look good.
If you absolutely desire triple monitor support, razor-sharp 2D, great 3D, and are willing to spend whatever it takes, go with Parhelia.
Otherwise, I don't see what the attraction is otherwise.
Best case scenario: Parhelia hits the market in June, the drivers are decently mature, and the pricetag is $400-450 as has been reported by many web sites.
Even in the best case scenario, Parhelia will not be the best buy for most people (including OEM's and almost all gamers). Considering there will be no lost-cost version of Parhelia anytime soon, considering a GeForce4 Ti4600 will likely be around $250 while Parhelia will be $400, and considering NV30 and R300 will be out within a matter of a couple months after that, it doesn't look good.
Oh, I agree of course! Nvidia is no slouch when it comes to optimized drivers, that?s why I don?t understand why such a fuss about optimized anything?
Nvidia certainly does have its sh1t together when it comes to its drivers, but Matrox and no pushover either.
Still, you can't underscore the fact that Parhelia is feature filled. Certainly nothing will be able to touch Parhelia's 2D, and I have strong doubts that R300 or NV30 will have comparable 2D quality (it would certainly be a nice surprise if R300 or NV30 had Parhelia-like 2D).
I hope Matrox comes to its senses and releases a $200 (or even $250) version of Parhelia. Imagine, a Ti4600-equivilent gaming card (speed-wise and DX-wise), with the best 2D quality in the world and triple-monitor support among other features. Not bad. Lets just hope Matrox follows through on such a great idea...
BD231
Lifer
- Feb 26, 2001
- 10,568
- 138
- 106
To get disappointed this early in the game is mind-boggling
Not really, the card offers nothing new in terms of technological advancement, so thats more than enough reason to be dissapointed.
The drivers for this card are probably soooo beta that it won?t be till at least a few more months before they finally get all the bugs, and other features worked out.
Well thats no good with the time frame they are working with
As for optimized games, so what? That?s nothing new! Obviously when a game developer implements, and optimizes something in their game it?s for a pretty good reason. It usually means a better gaming experience for the gamer, you know T&L, vertex shaders, EMBM etc? like I said nothing new.
And how long has it taken for game developer's to actualy start using such features?
Agodspeed summed up my feeling's quite nicely:
My take on Parhelia:
If you absolutely desire triple monitor support, razor-sharp 2D, great 3D, and are willing to spend whatever it takes, go with Parhelia.
Otherwise, I don't see what the attraction is otherwise.
Best case scenario: Parhelia hits the market in June, the drivers are decently mature, and the pricetag is $400-450 as has been reported by many web sites.
Even in the best case scenario, Parhelia will not be the best buy for most people (including OEM's and almost all gamers). Considering there will be no lost-cost version of Parhelia anytime soon, considering a GeForce4 Ti4600 will likely be around $250 while Parhelia will be $400, and considering NV30 and R300 will be out within a matter of a couple months after that, it doesn't look good.
Not really, the card offers nothing new in terms of technological advancement, so thats more than enough reason to be dissapointed.
The drivers for this card are probably soooo beta that it won?t be till at least a few more months before they finally get all the bugs, and other features worked out.
Well thats no good with the time frame they are working with
As for optimized games, so what? That?s nothing new! Obviously when a game developer implements, and optimizes something in their game it?s for a pretty good reason. It usually means a better gaming experience for the gamer, you know T&L, vertex shaders, EMBM etc? like I said nothing new.
And how long has it taken for game developer's to actualy start using such features?
Agodspeed summed up my feeling's quite nicely:
My take on Parhelia:
If you absolutely desire triple monitor support, razor-sharp 2D, great 3D, and are willing to spend whatever it takes, go with Parhelia.
Otherwise, I don't see what the attraction is otherwise.
Best case scenario: Parhelia hits the market in June, the drivers are decently mature, and the pricetag is $400-450 as has been reported by many web sites.
Even in the best case scenario, Parhelia will not be the best buy for most people (including OEM's and almost all gamers). Considering there will be no lost-cost version of Parhelia anytime soon, considering a GeForce4 Ti4600 will likely be around $250 while Parhelia will be $400, and considering NV30 and R300 will be out within a matter of a couple months after that, it doesn't look good.
Agreed. Well put Agodspeed.
Again, well put
. It is definately even more feature filled than the R8500 was compared to the GF3 at launch. I would prolly be a buyer of a cheaper version of Parhelia because I don't have big gaming demands (The best I've ever had is a GF2MX) b/c of its overall image quality.Displacement Mapping, 16X AA, 10bit color, Hardware Glyph rendering, triple head....
Naw, nothing new here...
amish
I totally agree in respects to the 2D, low-cost version and Parhelia features. I think Anand summed it up pretty well, "The main strengths from the Parhelia-512 come from its quad-texturing units, its impressive memory bandwidth and its 5-stage pixel shader pipelines. Features such as Hardware Displacement Mapping and extreme attention to image output quality complete the package. Matrox's Fragment Anti-Aliasing algorithm seems quite promising however that is entirely dependent on what situations result in noticeable artifacts.".
Obvously a lot of technology behide this card though we will need to wait for the actual hardware before anyone can establish what advantages or disadvantages the Parhelia presents.
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