***Official*** NV40 Benches (Updated as they go live) ANANDTECH Review Added

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I guess SFF owners can forget about a 6800U?

i think thats a fair assumption

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Regs
499? Shizer. Maybe the non ultra was 400.

That could only mean ATI will charge the same for the RV420 even if they're a flop. ( Remember the original 5800?)


500 dollars is insane. I even got over 1k back in taxes to afford this, but still, 500 dollars is insane!

i'm willing to bet within a month of release (late june), the ultra can be had for $399 or less, just like how the 5950 debuted @ $499 and now you can buy one for $370

 

[Regs]

Man, but seeing the 9700p as the least performer of those cards is kind of funny lol.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Eug
These speeds are stupid-fast and all, but this power utilization and die size stuff is getting way too out of hand.

WTF? NV40 is approximately three to four times the size of the IBM G5 PPC 970FX 2.5 GHz CPU (66 mm2). And NV40 requires a 480 Watt power supply?

What happens with the next generation?

Bigger heatsink, more power connectors. It's just like CPUs; over time, power consumption is going to increase no matter what you do.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Eug
These speeds are stupid-fast and all, but this power utilization and die size stuff is getting way too out of hand.

WTF? NV40 is approximately three to four times the size of the IBM G5 PPC 970FX 2.5 GHz CPU (66 mm2). And NV40 requires a 480 Watt power supply?

What happens with the next generation?

You're reading into this too literally. The 9700Pro supposedly required a 300W PS when it was released, and we all know, it can run on something much lower. 480 is just a recommendation based on 1) even a bad 480W PS will be able to handle it, eliminating and potential problems, and 2) the assumption of what kind of system this card will be in, meaning everything top of the line, multiple HD's, etc... The Apple G5 depending on configuration comes with a 450W or 600W power supply, which certainly doesn't leave Apple in any position to be bragging about low power requirements. I don't see why NVidia thought the 6800Ultra needed 2 power connectors, all the reviews point to it needing barely more than what's already out there. Looks more like NVidia playing it very safe like Apple does with a 600W PS than adding the second connector out of necessity.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Hey Chad what are you worried about? you already have a 480 watt power supply. And you have a decent videocard and those high 499 prices wont stay long. the cards drop $100 within the first 2 months of introduction it always happened and always will. So by the end of the summer you can bet that they will hover around $300-380 for 6800 non-ultra, 6800 ultra respectively.

I understand where you are coming from, but remember there are ppl who will agree with you and who will disagree with you. For someone 500 isnt a lot but for me and you it is. If you are looking from bang for the buck, 6800non-ultra doesnt offer the best but not the worst either. Consider how much a 9800xt costs right now and 6800ultra wipes the floor with it. Of course you can make an argument that an amazing motherboard, cpu and 1 gig of ram cost as much as this whole videocard alone making it a better investment for some as it is basically the whole system. For those who want to pay less to get the most, the new generation cards are not the best choice, but they were never designed to at those ppl. NV and ATI will later introduce lower grade cards for those who want reasonable performance <$300. For someone who wants the best in performance $499 is justified just like those same ppl who before went out and bout a 5950U or 9800xt that both offered 15% performance tops while costing $200+ more than 5900xt and 9800Pro respectively. It will take some time for us to find the next 4200 or 5900xt price/performance ratio, but don't you worry it will come.

Still 6800ultra offers up to 2x the performance of a 5900U and 9800Pro and costs about 2x more. So technically speaking you get what you pay for. Now do you need to pay $500 to run UT2004 at 1600x1200 4AA/16AF enabled at 77.84 frames per second and be able to run Halo, Splinter Cell and Far Cry with all bells and whistles? That is a personal preference. Some ppl will be content playing 1024x768 0AA/0AF, some ppl just care about 1600x1200 0AA/0AF, and others want the most they can get. For last group of people this card has lived up to the expecations I believe. I mean 2x the performance in roughly 2 years is about how fast CPUs evolve as well so it's not far off. How come you are not dissapoined going from p4 1.6 to your 3.2ghz p4 HT? In the real world, the price increase highly justified the $640 MSRP when the 3.2 first came out. For some ppl of course...for others that didn't matter....IT is all relevant.

well said

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Regs
499? Shizer. Maybe the non ultra was 400.

That could only mean ATI will charge the same for the RV420 even if they're a flop. ( Remember the original 5800?)


500 dollars is insane. I even got over 1k back in taxes to afford this, but still, 500 dollars is insane!

i'm willing to bet within a month of release (late june), the ultra can be had for $399 or less, just like how the 5950 debuted @ $499 and now you can buy one for $370

It's also been a *LOT* longer than a month since the debut of the 5950U, and they're still at $400 (the cheapest off-brand one on Newegg is $390, and the rest are $400 or above). What makes you think the prices are going to drop quickly on the new cards? The only thing that usually causes a price drop is competition (or a good 3-6 months of time). Besides that, these chips have 220 *million* transistors -- they're going to be expensive to produce, because the yields on them can't be that good right now, and you don't get very many chips per wafer even on a 130nm process. And 256MB of GDDR3 ain't cheap either. I mean, there's certainly quite a bit of profit (for both NVIDIA and the card manufacturers) built into a $500 price point, but I'm not sure how much there would be at $400 right now.

And if the 16-pipe X800 XT (also with an unofficial price tag of $499) doesn't match or beat the 16-pipe NV40 -- don't hold your breath waiting for NVIDIA to lower their prices until something does.

 

[MegaWorks]

I think the 6800 ultra is a great card, but the power consumption sux A$$. Not alot of people are gonna buy a new PSU for a vid card thats for sure. I think Nvidia should fix this problem!

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Regs
499? Shizer. Maybe the non ultra was 400.

That could only mean ATI will charge the same for the RV420 even if they're a flop. ( Remember the original 5800?)


500 dollars is insane. I even got over 1k back in taxes to afford this, but still, 500 dollars is insane!

i'm willing to bet within a month of release (late june), the ultra can be had for $399 or less, just like how the 5950 debuted @ $499 and now you can buy one for $370

It's also been a *LOT* longer than a month since the debut of the 5950U, and they're still at $400 (the cheapest off-brand one on Newegg is $390, and the rest are $400 or above). What makes you think the prices are going to drop quickly on the new cards? The only thing that usually causes a price drop is competition (or a good 3-6 months of time). Besides that, these chips have 220 *million* transistors -- they're going to be expensive to produce, because the yields on them can't be that good right now, and you don't get very many chips per wafer even on a 130nm process. And 256MB of GDDR3 ain't cheap either. I mean, there's certainly quite a bit of profit (for both NVIDIA and the card manufacturers) built into a $500 price point, but I'm not sure how much there would be at $400 right now.

And if the 16-pipe X800 XT (also with an unofficial price tag of $499) doesn't match or beat the 16-pipe NV40 -- don't hold your breath waiting for NVIDIA to lower their prices until something does.

5950 can be had for $370 from a reliable place like Buyxg.com. it has been longer than a month since the 5950 was released, but within a month, they were in the $400 range. there is no reason for me to think the same trend will not continue with the 6800U

 

[Ulchieman]

Well I just checked out my PSU. Antec TruePower 380W PSU

But I just free'd a rail up by moving by CD drive down so I could use one rail for both. All I have is a Cd-rom drive and a HDD. So now I have 2 free rails, with one of them running a small fan. So it looks like I'm set. Bring em on, I've got 1500 CAD and I'm willing to buy a new card. Haven't had something nice and new for a LONG time.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I think the 6800 ultra is a great card, but the power consumption sux A$$. Not alot of people are gonna buy a new PSU for a vid card thats for sure. I think Nvidia should fix this problem!

a quality 480W PSU like the TT purepower is $60 @ newegg

also, nvidia is overestimating to cover their @$$ and be on the safe side. i'm fairly confident that a quality PSU that is less than 480W will be able to run it. i'm gonna wait and see if anyone here with 380W truepowers are gonna run the card before i buy, but i wouldnt be shocked at all if the 380W truepower was sufficent

 

[BFG10K]

Some of the benchmark scores are just obscene, like seven times faster than the 9700 Pro in Jedi Academy! It feels like I'm on a TNT2 or something.

ATi really better have something good up their sleeve to combat this.

Oh and fully adjustable AF is excellent because it'll keep everyone happy. nVidia is really delivering the goods with this one

 

[flexy]

the biggest problem with this card is that she makes my future "dream computer" MUCH more expensive than it was before yesterday.

if i assume the 9800U the top of the line card, makes $500
i dont even KNOW whther there is a good 480W+ PSU for $100.....but add this $100 for the PSU (at least !)

So....right now my 9800Pro looks old and utdated and i would have to add $600 (!!!) just for the card with the PSU alone...
This is a LOT of money

However, i am impressed with the card and especially the features, PS3.0 and the rumors we might see PS3.0 utilizing games much earlier than expected.
If you buy a card and shell out $600 (!) then you better buy a card which has SOME future....and (even as an ATI fan !) i would NOT spend $600 on a card which only has PS2.0 *knowing* that end of the year we might have a bunch of amazing games with PS3.0 patches/routines....

I dont say R420 will be bad - NO, it might even beat NV40 in raw FPS. But the real question here is if you would rather buy such an expensive card with the knowledge it has some real improvments & new featuers, dx90.c support etc. and might last AT LEAST a while ! (Other words: It should have potential and not only built on older tech with just boosted core/mem)
ATI better hurry with their R500, besides there are alerady rumors they're quite far in development there which makes me happy. They better have a R500 ready end of the year...

Edit: $60 for a PSU....good....but still $60 more

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I think the 6800 ultra is a great card, but the power consumption sux A$$. Not alot of people are gonna buy a new PSU for a vid card thats for sure. I think Nvidia should fix this problem!

a quality 480W PSU like the TT purepower is $60 @ newegg

also, nvidia is overestimating to cover their @$$ and be on the safe side. i'm fairly confident that a quality PSU that is less than 480W will be able to run it. i'm gonna wait and see if anyone here with 380W truepowers are gonna run the card before i buy, but i wouldnt be shocked at all if the 380W truepower was sufficent

well, I have the Antec TrueBlue 480W it would be enough

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: flexy
the biggest problem with this card is that she makes my future "dream computer" MUCH more expensive than it was before yesterday.

if i assume the 9800U the top of the line card, makes $500
i dont even KNOW whther there is a good 480W+ PSU for $100.....but add this $100 for the PSU (at least !)

So....right now my 9800Pro looks old and utdated and i would have to add $600 (!!!) just for the card with the PSU alone...
This is a LOT of money

However, i am impressed with the card and especially the features, PS3.0 and the rumors we might see PS3.0 utilizing games much earlier than expected.
If you buy a card and shell out $600 (!) then you better buy a card which has SOME future....and (even as an ATI fan !) i would NOT spend $600 on a card which only has PS2.0 *knowing* that end of the year we might have a bunch of amazing games with PS3.0 patches/routines....

I dont say R420 will be bad - NO, it might even beat NV40 in raw FPS. But the real question here is if you would rather buy such an expensive card with the knowledge it has some real improvments & new featuers, dx90.c support etc. and might last AT LEAST a while ! (Other words: It should have potential and not only built on older tech with just boosted core/mem)
ATI better hurry with their R500, besides there are alerady rumors they're quite far in development there which makes me happy. They better have a R500 ready end of the year...

i mentioned a couple posts above that you can get a thermaltake purepower 480W for $60 shipped from newegg

 

[stickybytes]

Nvidia really might have captured the top spot once again. Nothing can be said in stone yet however, since the R420's haven't been released yet. As far as what i've seen so far, im liking this card fron Nvidia. You really start to see the difference when the card runs games at 1600x1200 resolution. Whew, time to start saving my pennies....

 

[Pariah]

Complaining about the PS requirements of a $500 video card, is like buying a Ferrari and complaining about the cost of the tires. If you can't afford the entry price, tough luck. The highest end is rarely targetted at the bargain hunters.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Pariah
Complaining about the PS requirements of a $500 video card, is like buying a Ferrari and complaining about the cost of the tires. If you can't afford the entry price, tough luck. The highest end is rarely targetted at the bargain hunters.

i dont think its so much of a matter of bargain hunting but when i spend $500 on a video card, i dont want to spend even more money on a upgrade that is soley an upgrade because of the video card but like i said, its only another $60 or so (hopefully a 380W truepower will suffice though)

 

[sharkeeper]

There will be a 512MB GDDR3 version this summer!

Cheers!

 

[Sunner]

I hope ATi doesn't match it, only because it would make me smile to see whatever excuses GTAudiphile can come up with

<Disclaimer> Owner of an R9800 </Disclaimer>

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: shuttleteam
There will be a 512MB GDDR3 version this summer!

Cheers!

wow, i can hardly imagine the price tag on theat sucker.

again, wouldnt that be overkill? i mean the 9800pro had a 256 mb flavor in a period of time where there were no games taking advantage of it. now there are just a few that can and already we see 512 cards?

 

[Alkali]

Originally posted by: BoomAM
Theres alot i could comment on some of the daft comments by alot of you....

To be honest. Im not that impressed. Im impressed with the SC performance, but thats down to the pipelines.
Even if r42x is faster, the nV40, unless ATI do something similar, is a more attractive option, due to the onchip video decoder. If it does DivX, Xvid & WMP9HD then it`d allow people with less powerful PCs to use the latest media.
Im hoping that the R420 at least matches it. Its more interesting that way.

Im planning on buying a budget upgrade soon, and waiting an extra month to get a brand new video card along with it, would give me a video card that`d last as long as my 9700pro, & would "prop" up a conservative system of a XP2500M for a while.

Its about time that nV40 was released, now we need r420/423, and we`re set for an interesting time of price wars, oem product differentiations, fancy cooling designs and whatnot. The market was getting stale imo.

ATi actually did this already ...

May I remind you that the Radeon 9700 and 9800 series both contain on-chip enhancements for MPEG/Avi playback, but you need the right drivers, plus a free - but not highly publicised player to give the enhancement.

So I won't be suprised at all if they have a similar system for video processing, especially the high quality HDTV signal throughput stuff.

 

[Dulanic]

Why do people still keep talking about power supplies? Ive posted this once... Power Usage The 6800 Ultra only uses about 15% more power under full load then a 9800 XT... so it's not like its a huge power hog. It uses a full 29 watts more... not a killer there. I dont see power being a huge problem, not anymore then the 9800s.

 

[Alkali]

Originally posted by: Dulanic
Why do people still keep talking about power supplies? Ive posted this once... Power Usage The 6800 Ultra only uses about 15% more power under full load then a 9800 XT... so it's not like its a huge power hog. It uses a full 29 watts more... not a killer there. I dont see power being a huge problem, not anymore then the 9800s.

I spotted this too mate...

People are just hung up on the fact it has two power connectors, but what they fail to realise is that it doesnt automatically mean TWICE the power draw of 1 connector, it simply means load balancing - which supposedly helps the 6800 with stable power on its own PCB.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Alkali


ATi actually did this already ...

May I remind you that the Radeon 9700 and 9800 series both contain on-chip enhancements for MPEG/Avi playback, but you need the right drivers, plus a free - but not highly publicised player to give the enhancement.

So I won't be suprised at all if they have a similar system for video processing, especially the high quality HDTV signal throughput stuff.

Actually the tech used in r3xx is just to remove the blockness from videos. Doesnt decode the video stream. At all. Cant remember the name of it exactely, i think it was videoshader or fullstream or something like that.
Well whatever it was called, it DID`NT decode the video stream, it just removed some of the blockness from it. Especially in streaming media.

On THG, the 6800 doesnt draw much more power than a 9800XT or a 5950U. On a retail board, or at least after a few revisions, i think we can expect the power circuitary to be "optimised" a bit, and we`ll probably just see the one power connector.
Either way, im covered. My 350W Cheiftec PSU couldnt handle what i was throwing at it when i got it, so i brought a 480w Antec PSU! lol.