One player that comes to mind is Sergei Fedorov.
Why can't the NHLPA make another move? Just give in and accept the goddarn cap.:|
I WANT TO WATCH HOCKEY!
One player that comes to mind is Sergei Fedorov.
Why can't the NHLPA make another move? Just give in and accept the goddarn cap.:|
I WANT TO WATCH HOCKEY!
luckily we have the OHL here in Ontario, and my city's hockey team is kicking total ass.. games are exciting and inexpensive... i'm happy for now 
IHateMyJob2004
Lifer
- Sep 29, 2004
- 18,656
- 67
- 91
NHLers don't start playing till the playoffs. How is this news? It's not one player, it's all of them.
Hoenstly, I think they play to many games as is. make a shorter schedual and all games will be important. In a 100 game season, +/- a few games doesn't realy matter. But in a 50 game season .... well, that's economics
Maybe cap the playing time for individual players per game. Maybe no more than 20 minutes the first two periods (thus making it a team game again) but the third period is anything goes.
Hockey is one sport where the idea of team is required to win it all. I honestly think it's a decent idea. Then the stars play more games.
They need international size rinks to. Players are to darn fast these days. Small rinks just don't work anymore.
Hoenstly, I think they play to many games as is. make a shorter schedual and all games will be important. In a 100 game season, +/- a few games doesn't realy matter. But in a 50 game season .... well, that's economics
Maybe cap the playing time for individual players per game. Maybe no more than 20 minutes the first two periods (thus making it a team game again) but the third period is anything goes.
Hockey is one sport where the idea of team is required to win it all. I honestly think it's a decent idea. Then the stars play more games.
They need international size rinks to. Players are to darn fast these days. Small rinks just don't work anymore.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
i guy i work with grew up with Steve Rucchin and used to kick his ass real bad at Sega hockey. Figures that he sucked at video games eh. ehhehe
well Gretz says that it could be another year eh. This is coming from someone who obviously has their finger on the pulse of the hockey world which makes it even more disconcerting. to top it off I still haven't been to see the local OHL team so my hockey jones is getting worse every day. it is hard to believe that 2004/2005 will be devoid of the goals, the plays, the hits, the rivalries. Damn i miss my Oilers!!!
well Gretz says that it could be another year eh. This is coming from someone who obviously has their finger on the pulse of the hockey world which makes it even more disconcerting. to top it off I still haven't been to see the local OHL team so my hockey jones is getting worse every day. it is hard to believe that 2004/2005 will be devoid of the goals, the plays, the hits, the rivalries. Damn i miss my Oilers!!!
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
Originally posted by: CraigRT
luckily we have the OHL here in Ontario, and my city's hockey team is kicking total ass.. games are exciting and inexpensive... i'm happy for now
Hey, I'm a Spits fan and I'd rather watch em play in London
the Barn here in Windsor has a good atmosphere but it's not like that feeling couldn't come to a new home. Honestly i wish the London city council would work in Windsor just long enough to get sh!t done...haven't been so London to see a game yet... i will get there eventually because I heard it is flippin amazing. too close not to check out at least once. They still have just 1 loss? thats sick and they are missing their top line to the juniors. they would have went undefeated had those players not left, imho.
NHL, NHLPA: Nothing is in the works
Canadian Press
1/4/2005
With an NHL board of governors' meeting just a week and a half away, both sides in the NHL's labour battle said Tuesday that nothing is in the works to help kick-start talks.
Rumours surfaced at the world junior hockey championship in North Dakota that a new offer may come from either side before the Jan. 14 NHL board meeting in New York, but both the NHL and NHL Players' Association deny that.
"We are not working on anything," NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said Tuesday. "It is very clear to us that if there is going to be any hope of a season, the NHL is going to have to show some interest in getting into a meaningful negotiation and it's very clear that what they presented to us on Dec. 14 provided no basis for further negotiation."
Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, also denied the league was working on a new offer.
"There is nothing to the story that we're working on a new proposal," Daly said in an e-mail.
There are no plans for any meetings between the two sides at this point, which raises the question of what will happen when the league's 30 owners meet Jan. 14. The last time the board of governors met was Sept. 14, when league commissioner Gary Bettman announced the lockout.
The NHL has not yet finalized the agenda for the Jan. 14 meeting, waiting to see what transpires in the next 10 days. The speculation on what will happen Jan. 14 centres around three possibilities:
- Bettman comes out and says he's got the full support of all owners on achieving "cost certainty," no matter how long it takes, but does not announce a drop-dead date or the cancellation of the season, leaving everyone hanging for the remainder of the year;
- Bettman announces the cancellation of the 2004-05 season;
- Bettman announces a drop-dead date for a new deal to be struck to save the season.
The two sides haven't met since Dec. 14 in Toronto when the league rejected the union's offer, highlighted by a 24 per cent salary rollback on all existing player contracts, and the NHLPA firmly rejected the NHL's counter-proposal - which included a salary cap.
Through Tuesday, 555 of the season's 1,230 games have gone by the wayside.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
1/4/2005
With an NHL board of governors' meeting just a week and a half away, both sides in the NHL's labour battle said Tuesday that nothing is in the works to help kick-start talks.
Rumours surfaced at the world junior hockey championship in North Dakota that a new offer may come from either side before the Jan. 14 NHL board meeting in New York, but both the NHL and NHL Players' Association deny that.
"We are not working on anything," NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said Tuesday. "It is very clear to us that if there is going to be any hope of a season, the NHL is going to have to show some interest in getting into a meaningful negotiation and it's very clear that what they presented to us on Dec. 14 provided no basis for further negotiation."
Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, also denied the league was working on a new offer.
"There is nothing to the story that we're working on a new proposal," Daly said in an e-mail.
There are no plans for any meetings between the two sides at this point, which raises the question of what will happen when the league's 30 owners meet Jan. 14. The last time the board of governors met was Sept. 14, when league commissioner Gary Bettman announced the lockout.
The NHL has not yet finalized the agenda for the Jan. 14 meeting, waiting to see what transpires in the next 10 days. The speculation on what will happen Jan. 14 centres around three possibilities:
- Bettman comes out and says he's got the full support of all owners on achieving "cost certainty," no matter how long it takes, but does not announce a drop-dead date or the cancellation of the season, leaving everyone hanging for the remainder of the year;
- Bettman announces the cancellation of the 2004-05 season;
- Bettman announces a drop-dead date for a new deal to be struck to save the season.
The two sides haven't met since Dec. 14 in Toronto when the league rejected the union's offer, highlighted by a 24 per cent salary rollback on all existing player contracts, and the NHLPA firmly rejected the NHL's counter-proposal - which included a salary cap.
Through Tuesday, 555 of the season's 1,230 games have gone by the wayside.
Cheers,
Aquaman
BusinessWeek: Bettman gets thumbs down
TSN.ca Staff
1/6/2005
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has been given a failing grade by a major business magazine in the United States.
BusinessWeek ranks Bettman fifth on its list of seven worst managers in 2004. Rankings were based on submissions from 130 writers and editors from around the world.
"Arenas have been empty since Sept. 15, when National Hockey League owners locked out the players," said the magazine regarding Bettman's selection. "NHL finances are in shambles, and the weak TV deal signed with NBC last spring suggests the league has little leverage and is now a second-tier sport."
The magazine does give Bettman credit for attempting to unite the owners, whom it calls "an undisciplined bunch (that) should shoulder much of the blame for wildly bidding up salaries."
"(Bettman) finally has owners marching in lockstep toward a tough new contract - even if their unanimity is about a decade too late."
NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow doesn't escape unscathed either.
"Little prudence has been shown by NHL Players Assn. chief Bob Goodenow, who might have been wise to heed Bettman's warnings that the unsustainable rate of salary growth was undermining the business on which players depend for their livelihood," says BusinessWeek.
The magazine concludes by saying, depending on the outcome of the dispute, Bettman could easily find himself on the list of Best Managers in one years time.
"If the league holds out and wins a salary cap - or even settles for a hefty rollback - Bettman could end up looking like a shrewd crisis manager. But it was a crisis that should never have happened."
It has not been a good week for the NHL boss. The Sporting News ranked Bettman 40th on its list of the 100 most powerful people. That's a drop of 27 spots from a year ago. NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow was ranked ahead of Bettman, 39th.
Both found themselves behind Janet Jackson's 2004 Super Bowl "wardrobe malfunction" on the Power 100 list.
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff
1/6/2005
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has been given a failing grade by a major business magazine in the United States.
BusinessWeek ranks Bettman fifth on its list of seven worst managers in 2004. Rankings were based on submissions from 130 writers and editors from around the world.
"Arenas have been empty since Sept. 15, when National Hockey League owners locked out the players," said the magazine regarding Bettman's selection. "NHL finances are in shambles, and the weak TV deal signed with NBC last spring suggests the league has little leverage and is now a second-tier sport."
The magazine does give Bettman credit for attempting to unite the owners, whom it calls "an undisciplined bunch (that) should shoulder much of the blame for wildly bidding up salaries."
"(Bettman) finally has owners marching in lockstep toward a tough new contract - even if their unanimity is about a decade too late."
NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow doesn't escape unscathed either.
"Little prudence has been shown by NHL Players Assn. chief Bob Goodenow, who might have been wise to heed Bettman's warnings that the unsustainable rate of salary growth was undermining the business on which players depend for their livelihood," says BusinessWeek.
The magazine concludes by saying, depending on the outcome of the dispute, Bettman could easily find himself on the list of Best Managers in one years time.
"If the league holds out and wins a salary cap - or even settles for a hefty rollback - Bettman could end up looking like a shrewd crisis manager. But it was a crisis that should never have happened."
It has not been a good week for the NHL boss. The Sporting News ranked Bettman 40th on its list of the 100 most powerful people. That's a drop of 27 spots from a year ago. NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow was ranked ahead of Bettman, 39th.
Both found themselves behind Janet Jackson's 2004 Super Bowl "wardrobe malfunction" on the Power 100 list.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Alfredsson: No union offer coming
TSN.ca Staff
1/6/2005
The NHLPA is not preparing another last minute offer and the union is prepared to "lose the season", according to Ottawa Senators star Daniel Alfredsson.
One of the NHLPA's vice presidents, Alfredsson tells the Ottawa Sun that union officials spoke last week and concluded they would not alter their last offer, which included a 24-percent salary rollback.
"We're not working on anything ... we're not going to do anything to change our offer," Alfredsson tells the newspaper.
"We thought we made them an offer that they could work with. What we found out in that meeting was they have a one-track mind. (Gary Bettman) is stuck on one thing and we're not going to play under a cap system."
"We're willing to lose the season if that's what it takes. We're prepared for it."
Talk of a last minute offer has been swirling as NHL governors prepare to meet with Bettman on January 14.
"I'm still hopeful," Detroit Red Wings captain Steve Yzerman tells the Detroit News. "I've got to believe something will get done in the next couple of weeks. But I don't have any reason behind that."
"I have no idea what'll come out of that (Jan. 14) meeting," Yzerman added. "Even if there is an announcement, I don't think that's necessarily the final announcement. The final, final announcement will come later."
"I'm trying to be optimistic," defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom said. "It's tough when there are no negotiations, not even conversations, going on right now."
"Even in 1994, there were negotiations going on and the sides were getting close. Now, nothing is really happening."
Alfredsson says reports that players are putting pressure on union boss Bob Goodenow to get a deal done is false.
"I know that a lot of players are frustrated that we're not playing, but they're also frustrated that we made what we thought was a good offer and the league didn't engage in any kind of discussions to try to make something happen.
"If people are saying that (the players don't support the union), they're wrong."
Alfredsson says if the season is cancelled, he will play for Frolunda in the Swedish league.
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff
1/6/2005
The NHLPA is not preparing another last minute offer and the union is prepared to "lose the season", according to Ottawa Senators star Daniel Alfredsson.
One of the NHLPA's vice presidents, Alfredsson tells the Ottawa Sun that union officials spoke last week and concluded they would not alter their last offer, which included a 24-percent salary rollback.
"We're not working on anything ... we're not going to do anything to change our offer," Alfredsson tells the newspaper.
"We thought we made them an offer that they could work with. What we found out in that meeting was they have a one-track mind. (Gary Bettman) is stuck on one thing and we're not going to play under a cap system."
"We're willing to lose the season if that's what it takes. We're prepared for it."
Talk of a last minute offer has been swirling as NHL governors prepare to meet with Bettman on January 14.
"I'm still hopeful," Detroit Red Wings captain Steve Yzerman tells the Detroit News. "I've got to believe something will get done in the next couple of weeks. But I don't have any reason behind that."
"I have no idea what'll come out of that (Jan. 14) meeting," Yzerman added. "Even if there is an announcement, I don't think that's necessarily the final announcement. The final, final announcement will come later."
"I'm trying to be optimistic," defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom said. "It's tough when there are no negotiations, not even conversations, going on right now."
"Even in 1994, there were negotiations going on and the sides were getting close. Now, nothing is really happening."
Alfredsson says reports that players are putting pressure on union boss Bob Goodenow to get a deal done is false.
"I know that a lot of players are frustrated that we're not playing, but they're also frustrated that we made what we thought was a good offer and the league didn't engage in any kind of discussions to try to make something happen.
"If people are saying that (the players don't support the union), they're wrong."
Alfredsson says if the season is cancelled, he will play for Frolunda in the Swedish league.
Cheers,
Aquaman
NHL cancels planned BOG meeting
Canadian Press
1/6/2005
It's official. There's nothing to talk about in the NHL labour dispute.
Citing a lack of developments in the lockout, the NHL called off a planned board of governors meeting in New York next Friday.
''It's obvious that the reason it's been cancelled is that there's just nothing for us to talk about,'' Devils CEO and GM Lou Lamoriello, who sits on the board of governors, said Thursday from New Jersey.
''There's just no reason to have a meeting.''
Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, sent out a memo Thursday to all 30 clubs announcing the cancellation of the meeting, citing a lack of progress in collective bargaining.
''When we originally scheduled it, it was shortly after the negotiating meetings we had in December, and I certainly think there was a hope - if not an expectation - that more progress would have been made in negotiations between the date we scheduled it and now, that the union would have come forward with another proposal or at least have some communication in an attempt to move the process forward,'' Daly said from New York.
''As it's turned out, there's really nothing to update the board on that they're not fully aware of already.''
The NHL Players' Association and the league haven't talked since Dec. 14. And Daly says it's not up to the league to kick-start the process.
''We don't have any intention currently of making a proposal,'' Daly said. ''We continue to believe that we made a bona-fide, good-faith, legitimate proposal on Dec. 14, and that having rejected that proposal, which was their right to do, that the union bears some responsibility to bring us back something that they think works.''
Not true, says NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin.
''I don't know of anyone who believes that the NHL has made one bona fide proposal aimed at a settlement that could work for both sides,'' Saskin said Thursday night. ''While the NHL acknowledged the significance of our Dec. 9 proposal, they proceeded to intentionally mischaracterize its impact and gave a response which they knew would provide no basis for further discussions.''
If the original announcement of the Jan. 14 board of governors meeting was in fact some form of pressure tactic from the league, it didn't work. The NHLPA did not pick up the phone or begin work on a new offer.
''Collective bargaining negotiations should involve reasonable attempts by both parties to find middle ground,'' said Saskin. ''To date, the NHL has not given us any signal that they're prepared to negotiate a compromise that can work for both sides. If this process is to move forward it is now up to the NHL to make a proposal that would be of interest to the players.''
The board of governors last met Sept. 14 in New York when NHL commissioner Gary Bettman announced the lockout. There had been some thought that Bettman could emerge from next Friday's meeting with a final deadline for cancelling the season or even an announcement that the season was called off.
While it's clear the season won't be cancelled next Friday, the day is approaching when Bettman will have to make that announcement.
''We haven't given it a lot of thought, but my guess is that once it's clear to everyone that we can't play games this season, I would imagine an announcement will be made,'' Daly said.
But the league makes no apologies for not providing that cut-off date.
''Because our only interests and our only priority is to make sure we get the right deal,'' Daly said. ''Obviously there comes a point in time and that time certainly is quickly approaching where it's not practical anymore to play hockey games this season. But that's not foremost in our mind right now.
''What's foremost in our mind right now is how do we make progress with the Players' Association. how do make a deal that's going to work.''
Talks broke off between the NHL and NHLPA on Dec. 14 after the league rejected the union's offer and the NHLPA rejected the NHL's counter-proposal.
Both sides confirmed Thursday there are no plans to meet again at this point.
Meanwhile, the NHL season continues to evaporate. Through Thursday, 571 of the season's 1,230 scheduled games had gone by the wayside.
It seems clear that time is slipping away to save a season.
During the last lockout 10 years ago, both sides agreed to a new deal on Jan. 11 and played a 48-game regular season followed by the playoffs, the last game coming on June 24 - the latest the NHL has ever gone on the calendar.
Should the stalemate hit February, it will be too late to salvage a season of 40 or more games.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
1/6/2005
It's official. There's nothing to talk about in the NHL labour dispute.
Citing a lack of developments in the lockout, the NHL called off a planned board of governors meeting in New York next Friday.
''It's obvious that the reason it's been cancelled is that there's just nothing for us to talk about,'' Devils CEO and GM Lou Lamoriello, who sits on the board of governors, said Thursday from New Jersey.
''There's just no reason to have a meeting.''
Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, sent out a memo Thursday to all 30 clubs announcing the cancellation of the meeting, citing a lack of progress in collective bargaining.
''When we originally scheduled it, it was shortly after the negotiating meetings we had in December, and I certainly think there was a hope - if not an expectation - that more progress would have been made in negotiations between the date we scheduled it and now, that the union would have come forward with another proposal or at least have some communication in an attempt to move the process forward,'' Daly said from New York.
''As it's turned out, there's really nothing to update the board on that they're not fully aware of already.''
The NHL Players' Association and the league haven't talked since Dec. 14. And Daly says it's not up to the league to kick-start the process.
''We don't have any intention currently of making a proposal,'' Daly said. ''We continue to believe that we made a bona-fide, good-faith, legitimate proposal on Dec. 14, and that having rejected that proposal, which was their right to do, that the union bears some responsibility to bring us back something that they think works.''
Not true, says NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin.
''I don't know of anyone who believes that the NHL has made one bona fide proposal aimed at a settlement that could work for both sides,'' Saskin said Thursday night. ''While the NHL acknowledged the significance of our Dec. 9 proposal, they proceeded to intentionally mischaracterize its impact and gave a response which they knew would provide no basis for further discussions.''
If the original announcement of the Jan. 14 board of governors meeting was in fact some form of pressure tactic from the league, it didn't work. The NHLPA did not pick up the phone or begin work on a new offer.
''Collective bargaining negotiations should involve reasonable attempts by both parties to find middle ground,'' said Saskin. ''To date, the NHL has not given us any signal that they're prepared to negotiate a compromise that can work for both sides. If this process is to move forward it is now up to the NHL to make a proposal that would be of interest to the players.''
The board of governors last met Sept. 14 in New York when NHL commissioner Gary Bettman announced the lockout. There had been some thought that Bettman could emerge from next Friday's meeting with a final deadline for cancelling the season or even an announcement that the season was called off.
While it's clear the season won't be cancelled next Friday, the day is approaching when Bettman will have to make that announcement.
''We haven't given it a lot of thought, but my guess is that once it's clear to everyone that we can't play games this season, I would imagine an announcement will be made,'' Daly said.
But the league makes no apologies for not providing that cut-off date.
''Because our only interests and our only priority is to make sure we get the right deal,'' Daly said. ''Obviously there comes a point in time and that time certainly is quickly approaching where it's not practical anymore to play hockey games this season. But that's not foremost in our mind right now.
''What's foremost in our mind right now is how do we make progress with the Players' Association. how do make a deal that's going to work.''
Talks broke off between the NHL and NHLPA on Dec. 14 after the league rejected the union's offer and the NHLPA rejected the NHL's counter-proposal.
Both sides confirmed Thursday there are no plans to meet again at this point.
Meanwhile, the NHL season continues to evaporate. Through Thursday, 571 of the season's 1,230 scheduled games had gone by the wayside.
It seems clear that time is slipping away to save a season.
During the last lockout 10 years ago, both sides agreed to a new deal on Jan. 11 and played a 48-game regular season followed by the playoffs, the last game coming on June 24 - the latest the NHL has ever gone on the calendar.
Should the stalemate hit February, it will be too late to salvage a season of 40 or more games.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Anonymous NHL GM: Season is done
TSN.ca Staff with National Post, CP files
1/7/2005
The National Hockey League announced Thursday that it cancelled a board of governors meeting planned for next Friday to discuss the lockout, and at least one NHL excutive is convinced that the 2004-2005 season is history.
"People are waiting for the final deadline for cancellation and all that stuff," an anonymous NHL general manager told the National Post.
"That hasn't been thrown out there, but at the same time everybody knows we're at the point where, whether it's officially announced or not officially announced, that it's over."
Talks broke off between the NHL and NHLPA on Dec. 14 after the league rejected the union's offer and the NHLPA rejected the NHL's counter-proposal.
Both sides confirmed Thursday there are no plans to meet again at this point.
During the last lockout 10 years ago, both sides agreed to a new deal on Jan. 11 and played a 48-game regular season followed by the playoffs, the last game coming on June 24 - the latest the NHL has ever gone on the calendar.
The board of governors last met Sept. 14 in New York when NHL commissioner Gary Bettman announced the lockout. There had been some thought that Bettman could emerge from next Friday's meeting with a final deadline for cancelling the season or even an announcement that the season was called off.
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff with National Post, CP files
1/7/2005
The National Hockey League announced Thursday that it cancelled a board of governors meeting planned for next Friday to discuss the lockout, and at least one NHL excutive is convinced that the 2004-2005 season is history.
"People are waiting for the final deadline for cancellation and all that stuff," an anonymous NHL general manager told the National Post.
"That hasn't been thrown out there, but at the same time everybody knows we're at the point where, whether it's officially announced or not officially announced, that it's over."
Talks broke off between the NHL and NHLPA on Dec. 14 after the league rejected the union's offer and the NHLPA rejected the NHL's counter-proposal.
Both sides confirmed Thursday there are no plans to meet again at this point.
During the last lockout 10 years ago, both sides agreed to a new deal on Jan. 11 and played a 48-game regular season followed by the playoffs, the last game coming on June 24 - the latest the NHL has ever gone on the calendar.
The board of governors last met Sept. 14 in New York when NHL commissioner Gary Bettman announced the lockout. There had been some thought that Bettman could emerge from next Friday's meeting with a final deadline for cancelling the season or even an announcement that the season was called off.
Cheers,
Aquaman
NHL and NHLPA trade verbal shots
Canadian Press
1/7/2005
The NHL has accused the NHL Players' Association of being responsible for the financial crisis it says it's facing today.
"Let's be clear on where the responsibility lies for where we find ourselves today: it lies exclusively at the feet of union leadership who, despite numerous and repeated approaches by the league over many years, utterly ignored - and, in some cases, knowingly exacerbated - the financial distress the league was experiencing," Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, told The Canadian Press via e-mail from New York.
"Then, as if to suggest it is the league who must agree to negotiate only on its terms, the union proceeds to hold the game and its fans hostage over its complete and absolute refusal to negotiate any system that is premised on a negotiated - not arbitrary, but negotiated - and rational relationship between player costs and league-wide revenues.
"I can only hope that the players understand and appreciate the union's chosen strategy in this process: ignore the economic problems, delay in offering meaningful relief, and refuse to negotiate over an economic system that will ensure that the problems will not be repeated."
The league tried to begin collective bargaining talks back in March 1999, more than five years before the expiration of the previous deal, but the union resisted - as was its right - waiting for the current deal to run its course. The NHL says those five years cost its teams millions in losses - overall it says the league lost $1.8 billion US over the 10-year deal.
NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin responded to Daly's accusations Friday by pointing the finger of blame at the NHL.
"To date, the NHL has chosen not to negotiate," Saskin said in an e-mail from Toronto. "Instead, the league expends its energies on initiatives like setting and then cancelling board of governor meetings to great fanfare but no discernible reason.
"The league should spend its time doing something other than trying to justify its ongoing owners' lockout and refusal to negotiate with us."
Talks have been on hold since both sides rejected each other's proposals Dec. 14, and there are no meetings planned in the near future. There hasn't even been any of the kind of back-channel negotiation that helped solve the lockout 10 years ago.
"It doesn't seem to make sense," said one agent who requested anonymity. "They're outwaiting each other while the patient expires on the operating table."
When the league announced the cancellation of next Friday's board of governors meeting, the implication was that it was the union's responsibility now to come forth with a new offer to save the season.
No way, says Saskin.
"After the NHL's failure to explore our proposal of Dec. 9, the players made it crystal clear that we are not working on a new one and the onus remains on the NHL to come back with a proposal that could be the basis for an agreement," Saskin said. "Three weeks ago, the league decided on its own to announce a board of governors meeting with no publicly stated agenda. During the ensuing three weeks, no one from the league spoke with anyone from the PA.
"Yesterday, the league decided to cancel its meeting, citing a lack of `progress' in CBA discussions. The basis for Bill Daly's frustration is obvious - the league adopted the misguided strategy of using an early, vague announcement of a board meeting as some sort of pressure tactic against the players and it did not work."
Daly took issue when Saskin said the league had yet to make a "bona-fide" offer.
"Ted's suggestion that the league did not put forth a meaningful proposal on Dec. 14 is delusional," Daly said. "The union should look in the mirror. We've been at this process for the better part of six years and it took the union until Dec. 9, 2004 - three months into a work stoppage - to make its first and only bona-fide collective bargaining proposal."
Countered Saskin: "Virtually every knowledgeable, unbiased observer recognized that the NHLPA's comprehensive Dec. 9 proposal, which included a 24 per cent rollback and major systems changes in favour of the owners, provided a solid platform for a negotiated CBA that would work for both sides. We fully expected that the NHL would take the time to explore our proposal with us in detail . .
"But the NHL never asked us a single question about our proposal or its impact."
Daly said the union's Dec. 9 proposal, while involving a significant financial concession by the players, "did not even come close to addressing the many significant systemic flaws that have repeatedly been identified and exposed under the current CBA.
"Everyone who is even the least bit knowledgeable about our CBA and how it operates saw right through the proposal almost immediately for exactly what it was: a union offer designed to `buy' continued salary inflation at unsustainable levels, and the maintenance of an economic system that necessarily fosters financial and competitive disparities among clubs."
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
1/7/2005
The NHL has accused the NHL Players' Association of being responsible for the financial crisis it says it's facing today.
"Let's be clear on where the responsibility lies for where we find ourselves today: it lies exclusively at the feet of union leadership who, despite numerous and repeated approaches by the league over many years, utterly ignored - and, in some cases, knowingly exacerbated - the financial distress the league was experiencing," Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, told The Canadian Press via e-mail from New York.
"Then, as if to suggest it is the league who must agree to negotiate only on its terms, the union proceeds to hold the game and its fans hostage over its complete and absolute refusal to negotiate any system that is premised on a negotiated - not arbitrary, but negotiated - and rational relationship between player costs and league-wide revenues.
"I can only hope that the players understand and appreciate the union's chosen strategy in this process: ignore the economic problems, delay in offering meaningful relief, and refuse to negotiate over an economic system that will ensure that the problems will not be repeated."
The league tried to begin collective bargaining talks back in March 1999, more than five years before the expiration of the previous deal, but the union resisted - as was its right - waiting for the current deal to run its course. The NHL says those five years cost its teams millions in losses - overall it says the league lost $1.8 billion US over the 10-year deal.
NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin responded to Daly's accusations Friday by pointing the finger of blame at the NHL.
"To date, the NHL has chosen not to negotiate," Saskin said in an e-mail from Toronto. "Instead, the league expends its energies on initiatives like setting and then cancelling board of governor meetings to great fanfare but no discernible reason.
"The league should spend its time doing something other than trying to justify its ongoing owners' lockout and refusal to negotiate with us."
Talks have been on hold since both sides rejected each other's proposals Dec. 14, and there are no meetings planned in the near future. There hasn't even been any of the kind of back-channel negotiation that helped solve the lockout 10 years ago.
"It doesn't seem to make sense," said one agent who requested anonymity. "They're outwaiting each other while the patient expires on the operating table."
When the league announced the cancellation of next Friday's board of governors meeting, the implication was that it was the union's responsibility now to come forth with a new offer to save the season.
No way, says Saskin.
"After the NHL's failure to explore our proposal of Dec. 9, the players made it crystal clear that we are not working on a new one and the onus remains on the NHL to come back with a proposal that could be the basis for an agreement," Saskin said. "Three weeks ago, the league decided on its own to announce a board of governors meeting with no publicly stated agenda. During the ensuing three weeks, no one from the league spoke with anyone from the PA.
"Yesterday, the league decided to cancel its meeting, citing a lack of `progress' in CBA discussions. The basis for Bill Daly's frustration is obvious - the league adopted the misguided strategy of using an early, vague announcement of a board meeting as some sort of pressure tactic against the players and it did not work."
Daly took issue when Saskin said the league had yet to make a "bona-fide" offer.
"Ted's suggestion that the league did not put forth a meaningful proposal on Dec. 14 is delusional," Daly said. "The union should look in the mirror. We've been at this process for the better part of six years and it took the union until Dec. 9, 2004 - three months into a work stoppage - to make its first and only bona-fide collective bargaining proposal."
Countered Saskin: "Virtually every knowledgeable, unbiased observer recognized that the NHLPA's comprehensive Dec. 9 proposal, which included a 24 per cent rollback and major systems changes in favour of the owners, provided a solid platform for a negotiated CBA that would work for both sides. We fully expected that the NHL would take the time to explore our proposal with us in detail . .
"But the NHL never asked us a single question about our proposal or its impact."
Daly said the union's Dec. 9 proposal, while involving a significant financial concession by the players, "did not even come close to addressing the many significant systemic flaws that have repeatedly been identified and exposed under the current CBA.
"Everyone who is even the least bit knowledgeable about our CBA and how it operates saw right through the proposal almost immediately for exactly what it was: a union offer designed to `buy' continued salary inflation at unsustainable levels, and the maintenance of an economic system that necessarily fosters financial and competitive disparities among clubs."
Cheers,
Aquaman
What kind of damage will NHL suffer?
Canadian Press
1/10/2005
Just what kind of damage is the NHL suffering with the season slipping away?
Opinions vary, with some predicting complete disaster if there's no hockey this year. Others believe the NHL can get up on its feet no matter how long the lockout lasts.
The lines have been clearly drawn in the sand. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman wants "cost certainty" and says there won't be hockey until that happens. With NHL Players' Association executive director Bob Goodenow steadfastly opposed to any form of salary cap, the season could be lost.
"And that's going to be disastrous," Bobby Hull Jr., who represents his brother Brett, said from Los Angeles. "Both Bettman and Bob are not seeing the forest for the trees.
"They want to get what they want for their respective sides, but I think they're not going to have anything to go back to if there's no hockey this year."
The owners may have the money to outlast the players. But if it takes more than two years for the owners to get their salary cap, what spoils will be left for the victor?
Mark Cuban, owner of the NBA's Dallas Mavericks, argues the NHL can survive a long lockout.
"The issue isn't how many games are lost. The issue is what they do for fans when they come back," Cuban said in an e-mail to The Canadian Press.
"If they pass on cost savings to fans and do a good job of marketing the game, the NHL could come back much stronger."
Neal Pilson, former president of CBS Sports and now one of the industry's leading sports television consultants, says the NHL will do what it takes to get "cost certainty."
"They've made their choice, they're going to change the model, even if it takes cancelling the season," he said from south Florida. "And from what I've been told from owners and various league people, if they can't get the model changed this year they'll continue the fight next year."
None of the four major professional sports in North America has ever gone beginning to end without a single game even being played. The Stanley Cup is in danger of not being awarded for the first time since the Spanish flu wiped out the 1919 final. Even the Second World War couldn't stop the Stanley Cup playoffs.
Some say killing the season would be a disaster.
"They'll put themselves back 20 years," argued Hull Jr. "If they think they can successfully ice 30 teams in the markets they're in right now and have a viable product, it's just not going to happen. Remember baseball? Baseball is just getting back to where it was before the '94 strike - and that's the national past time down here.
"Nobody gives a crap about hockey down here - nobody. I coach kids' hockey down here and you can start to see the disinterest in the game here with the kids."
Bettman has been consistent in his response to the question of the cost of shelving the season. He believes resuming hockey without "cost certainty" would inflict much more damage, which is why he thinks sacrificing one season - or more - is worth the risk in order to get the economic system the owners want.
"I think it's a danger that the league ownership is very well aware of," Pilson said of not having a season. "They obviously have anticipated this situation, they've made plans for it. Many of the owners that I've talked to say that whatever the danger might be, it's less than the danger that they face in playing hockey under the present economics."
The league survived the last lockout in 1994-95 without too much damage, although that came at a time when hockey was popular south of the border after the New York Rangers won the Stanley Cup in June 1994.
The 1995 season started Jan. 20 and the league launched a promotional campaign featuring the slogan Game On to lure back fans. Average league attendance actually rose slightly from 14,748 in 1993-94 to 14,797 in the lockout-shortened season.
A June 1994 cover story by Sports Illustrated actually wondered if the NHL would pass the NBA in popularity.
How times have changed. The NHL rarely gets mentioned along the same lines as the NBA, NFL or Major League Baseball anymore, and why should it when you consider its dismal TV ratings south of the border.
In the meantime, the league has been making news south of the border for all the wrong reasons, with court cases involving Mike Danton, Todd Bertuzzi and Dany Heatley.
The damage has been felt in American sports stores. According to the Washington Times, yearend NHL merchandise sales in the U.S. in 2004 were down 59 per cent from 2003.
SportScanInfo, a Florida research firm that tracks retails sales of sporting goods and team merchandise, says this past December - when Christmas usually helps spike the numbers - saw the NHL sell $6.9 million of licensed gear in the U.S. - down 85 per cent from December 2003.
"They got creamed, absolutely creamed," Neil Schwartz, SportScanInfo director of marketing and business development, told the Times. "Most retailers have yanked a lot of their hockey product off the shelves, so it's become sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy."
And if the lockout wipes out the June entry draft in Ottawa, the league will miss out on a glorious chance to welcome hockey phenom Sidney Crosby to its ranks. Instead, he'll either suit up in Europe next fall or play for Canada's Olympic team.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
1/10/2005
Just what kind of damage is the NHL suffering with the season slipping away?
Opinions vary, with some predicting complete disaster if there's no hockey this year. Others believe the NHL can get up on its feet no matter how long the lockout lasts.
The lines have been clearly drawn in the sand. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman wants "cost certainty" and says there won't be hockey until that happens. With NHL Players' Association executive director Bob Goodenow steadfastly opposed to any form of salary cap, the season could be lost.
"And that's going to be disastrous," Bobby Hull Jr., who represents his brother Brett, said from Los Angeles. "Both Bettman and Bob are not seeing the forest for the trees.
"They want to get what they want for their respective sides, but I think they're not going to have anything to go back to if there's no hockey this year."
The owners may have the money to outlast the players. But if it takes more than two years for the owners to get their salary cap, what spoils will be left for the victor?
Mark Cuban, owner of the NBA's Dallas Mavericks, argues the NHL can survive a long lockout.
"The issue isn't how many games are lost. The issue is what they do for fans when they come back," Cuban said in an e-mail to The Canadian Press.
"If they pass on cost savings to fans and do a good job of marketing the game, the NHL could come back much stronger."
Neal Pilson, former president of CBS Sports and now one of the industry's leading sports television consultants, says the NHL will do what it takes to get "cost certainty."
"They've made their choice, they're going to change the model, even if it takes cancelling the season," he said from south Florida. "And from what I've been told from owners and various league people, if they can't get the model changed this year they'll continue the fight next year."
None of the four major professional sports in North America has ever gone beginning to end without a single game even being played. The Stanley Cup is in danger of not being awarded for the first time since the Spanish flu wiped out the 1919 final. Even the Second World War couldn't stop the Stanley Cup playoffs.
Some say killing the season would be a disaster.
"They'll put themselves back 20 years," argued Hull Jr. "If they think they can successfully ice 30 teams in the markets they're in right now and have a viable product, it's just not going to happen. Remember baseball? Baseball is just getting back to where it was before the '94 strike - and that's the national past time down here.
"Nobody gives a crap about hockey down here - nobody. I coach kids' hockey down here and you can start to see the disinterest in the game here with the kids."
Bettman has been consistent in his response to the question of the cost of shelving the season. He believes resuming hockey without "cost certainty" would inflict much more damage, which is why he thinks sacrificing one season - or more - is worth the risk in order to get the economic system the owners want.
"I think it's a danger that the league ownership is very well aware of," Pilson said of not having a season. "They obviously have anticipated this situation, they've made plans for it. Many of the owners that I've talked to say that whatever the danger might be, it's less than the danger that they face in playing hockey under the present economics."
The league survived the last lockout in 1994-95 without too much damage, although that came at a time when hockey was popular south of the border after the New York Rangers won the Stanley Cup in June 1994.
The 1995 season started Jan. 20 and the league launched a promotional campaign featuring the slogan Game On to lure back fans. Average league attendance actually rose slightly from 14,748 in 1993-94 to 14,797 in the lockout-shortened season.
A June 1994 cover story by Sports Illustrated actually wondered if the NHL would pass the NBA in popularity.
How times have changed. The NHL rarely gets mentioned along the same lines as the NBA, NFL or Major League Baseball anymore, and why should it when you consider its dismal TV ratings south of the border.
In the meantime, the league has been making news south of the border for all the wrong reasons, with court cases involving Mike Danton, Todd Bertuzzi and Dany Heatley.
The damage has been felt in American sports stores. According to the Washington Times, yearend NHL merchandise sales in the U.S. in 2004 were down 59 per cent from 2003.
SportScanInfo, a Florida research firm that tracks retails sales of sporting goods and team merchandise, says this past December - when Christmas usually helps spike the numbers - saw the NHL sell $6.9 million of licensed gear in the U.S. - down 85 per cent from December 2003.
"They got creamed, absolutely creamed," Neil Schwartz, SportScanInfo director of marketing and business development, told the Times. "Most retailers have yanked a lot of their hockey product off the shelves, so it's become sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy."
And if the lockout wipes out the June entry draft in Ottawa, the league will miss out on a glorious chance to welcome hockey phenom Sidney Crosby to its ranks. Instead, he'll either suit up in Europe next fall or play for Canada's Olympic team.
Cheers,
Aquaman
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
I was really into NHL hockey by the end of last season after being a NFL/MLB fan for my whole life. I was in multiple fantasy leagues and watching the playoff games like they were crack. This year I was planning to go to Boston for a few Bruins games with the wife. Now this whole thing totally freaking ruined hockey for me.
Too greedy owners, if you can not manage yourselves like intelligent people, you should not be running the team in the first place.
From most things I have read, a lot of the players really like playing in Europe better than the US. They can be closer to their home countries, the crowds are apparently MUCH better, and the overall hockey experience is like they wished it was in the US.
Too greedy owners, if you can not manage yourselves like intelligent people, you should not be running the team in the first place.
From most things I have read, a lot of the players really like playing in Europe better than the US. They can be closer to their home countries, the crowds are apparently MUCH better, and the overall hockey experience is like they wished it was in the US.
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
- 1,049
- 126
heh except they don't get paid a fraction as much. Might there be a reason each player was to take a SUBSTANTIAL pay cut to get back into the NHL ? That's all well and good, but it doesn't solve the NHL's economic problem. Owners got themselves into this mess by paying more and more but which team didn't want better and better players ? If one owner didn't sign them, another would at the higher price. They can only control it so much without a team cap. What it comes down to each time ... is the players say no cap... why not ? Greed. Why do the owners want one ? It's not because they are the ones who are greedy. Capitals owner Ted Leonsis is losing $5mil this season even though the team isn't playing (no player salaries even being paid out). That's how wrong the economic state of hockey is. I'm glad the owners are sticking to their guns.
You should check out this last ESPN the Mag. Brad Richards and Vinny Leclavier are NOT happy playing in the Russian leagues.
Oh, and I wouldn't say the owners are greedy. They rejected a great proposal and it shifted the blame from the players to the owners, but the players proposal would have brought things back to near where they are today in a couple of years because of teams like my favorite team, the Rangers.
I don't believe in a salary cap, buit I believe in a reduction of salaries combined with a HARD luxury tax and a flexible cap.
McKenzie: A Whole Lot Of Nothing
TSN.ca Staff
1/11/2005
I can't imagine there's any scenario where by were playing hockey again this year. Right now, there's a whole lot of nothing going on between the NHL and the NHLPA.
The question then is asked; before there's an official announcement that the season is over, will there be more talks? I'd like to imagine there's going to be one more flurry some time in the next two or three weeks certainly before the end of this month - where I think well see a proposal. It most likely will come from the NHL, although theyve responded in the same way the NHLPA did in the past there is nothing immanent coming from their end.
I think we'll see one more proposal but it will most likely include cost certainty and if it does, then the resolve will mean the season's over.
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff
1/11/2005
I can't imagine there's any scenario where by were playing hockey again this year. Right now, there's a whole lot of nothing going on between the NHL and the NHLPA.
The question then is asked; before there's an official announcement that the season is over, will there be more talks? I'd like to imagine there's going to be one more flurry some time in the next two or three weeks certainly before the end of this month - where I think well see a proposal. It most likely will come from the NHL, although theyve responded in the same way the NHLPA did in the past there is nothing immanent coming from their end.
I think we'll see one more proposal but it will most likely include cost certainty and if it does, then the resolve will mean the season's over.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Karmanos: NHL season is history
Canadian Press
1/11/2005
The NHL season is history, says the owner of the Carolina Hurricanes.
''My gut feeling is that this season's gone,'' Peter Karmanos Jr. told The Canadian Press on Tuesday.
And NHL hockey may be sidelined for longer than that. Karmanos believes the league will be out of action as long as it takes to get ''cost certainty'' - the NHL's euphemism for a salary cap.
''I know personally that I'd be willing to risk another season,'' he said from Detroit, where his company Compuware is based. ''I'm enough of a hockey fan to realize that once we got it straightened out, the fans would come back.
''But there's the risk they wouldn't. Even with that in mind, I feel very, very strongly that if we don't get it straightened out, we don't have to worry about the NHL existing anyways.''
Cheer,s
Aquaman
Canadian Press
1/11/2005
The NHL season is history, says the owner of the Carolina Hurricanes.
''My gut feeling is that this season's gone,'' Peter Karmanos Jr. told The Canadian Press on Tuesday.
And NHL hockey may be sidelined for longer than that. Karmanos believes the league will be out of action as long as it takes to get ''cost certainty'' - the NHL's euphemism for a salary cap.
''I know personally that I'd be willing to risk another season,'' he said from Detroit, where his company Compuware is based. ''I'm enough of a hockey fan to realize that once we got it straightened out, the fans would come back.
''But there's the risk they wouldn't. Even with that in mind, I feel very, very strongly that if we don't get it straightened out, we don't have to worry about the NHL existing anyways.''
Cheer,s
Aquaman
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