***Official*** NHL Lockout news thread ***Confirmed***

[Aquaman]

NHLPA, NHL wrap up important meeting

Canadian Press
12/9/2004

TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association delivered a strong offer as promised Thursday, enough for the NHL to agree to meet again next Tuesday or Wednesday.

Sources indicate the union's offer was significant and addressed some of the league's concerns but still didn't include a link between player costs and league revenues - a salary cap, in other words.

While there was cautious optimism because the offer was enough to warrant another meeting, that could be wiped out in a hurry next week if the NHL comes back with a counter-proposal that includes the link between player costs and league revenues.

Thursday's meeting, which came three months to the day of the last negotiating session Sept. 9, began at 11:23 a.m. and ended around 3:20 p.m., with both sides squeezing in a lunch break at 1:45.

Once the union left the NHL's Toronto office, commissioner Gary Bettman and the rest of the NHL negotiating team returned to the boardroom to meet, delaying their news conference with the media.

There was also no immediate word from the NHLPA, which conducted a conference call with player reps after the talks.

It was the first official meeting between the sides since Sept. 9. The lockout, which reached its 85th day Thursday, has forced cancellation of 382 regular-season games plus the 2005 all-star game.

The NHL says it lost $1.8 billion US over the 10-year run of the last collective bargaining agreement, including $273 million for the 2002-03 season and $224 million last season. The players dispute those figures.

The new NHLPA proposal is touted to save owners well over $200 million next season.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[silverpig]

World Junior hockey championships start in a few weeks

 

[NakaNaka]

NHL Offers 24 PERCENT Salary Rollback

TORONTO (AP) - The NHL players' association offered an immediate 24 percent rollback of salaries Thursday as the centerpiece of a proposal handed to the league in an effort to end the season-long lockout.

"It will immediately reduce the value of every current player contract," NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow said. "It will immediately set a dramatically lower base in the negotiation of new contracts and it contains numerous systemic changes in all the leverage points that are contained in the collective agreement."

The union said all current contracts would be cut, a move that would save NHL teams $270 million in the first year and $528 million over three years. The players' association offer on Sept. 9 only included a 5 percent salary rollback.

"One aspect of the proposal is very significant," NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said. "That element is a recognition by the union of our economic condition, but it is a one-time element.

"We have said consistently that the focus must be on the overall systemic issues and the long-term needs and health of our game."

By union estimates, the six-year, six-point proposal would save the NHL a total that exceeds $1 billion in that time span.

The salary rollback would change the dynamic for unsigned players, who would work out new deals based on the adjusted salary figures of comparable players and not on the value of their original contracts.

"It was shocking for me to hear it," said Dallas forward Bill Guerin, a member of the executive board. "That's a lot of money out of a guy's pocket to be giving up.

"The first thing guys are going to do is go over their own contract and run the numbers through their head, and that's natural, but this is what we felt was necessary to help the league get going and to help these teams restart and get their houses in order."

Originally, the sides set up to meet on Friday, as well, but those talks were pushed back until next Tuesday. That session will be held either in New York or Toronto.

"We will fully review the union's proposal and respond," Bettman said. "It is our present intention to make a counterproposal."

Time is running short to work out a deal and still have a legitimate season. Already 382 regular-season games, plus the All-Star contest have been canceled.

Bettman again declined to announce a drop-dead date that would make the NHL the first major North American league to cancel an entire season over a labor dispute.

"When we have the deal, we'll see what we can do about having a semblance of a season," Bettman said.

What the new proposal didn't contain was a link between league revenues and player salaries - the cost certainty Bettman wants for the 30 clubs. The union again offered a luxury tax instead of a salary cap.

"I don't believe in a luxury tax," Bettman said.

That fundamental difference could kill this offer, too.

"If they want to come back with a linkage to a salary cap, then there will be no season," said Ottawa forward Daniel Alfredsson, who would stand to lose millions of a recently signed five-year deal.

 

[Aquaman]

Statement from Commissioner Gary Bettman

with NHL.com files
12/9/2004

TORONTO - NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman released the following statement on Thursday following its meeting with the NHL Players' Association on Dec. 9.

"The Union presented us with a proposal today that, clearly, they worked on for a long time. We wanted to give it at least a preliminary review before making any comments.

"We will not discuss any of the specifics until we formally respond to the Union. To do otherwise would not be constructive to this process. However, I will acknowledge that one aspect of the proposal is very significant. That element is a recognition by the Union of our economic condition -- but it is a 'one-time' element.

"We have said consistently that the focus must be on the overall systemic issues and the long-term needs and health of the game. We will fully review the Union's proposal and respond next Tuesday. It is our present intention to make a counter-proposal."

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Aquaman]

Six major elements of NHLPA offer

TSN.ca Staff
12/9/2004

(NHLPA) - The six major elements of the NHLPA's plan include:

An overall market deflator that resets player compensation at a new, sharply reduced level by rolling back all player compensation by 24% through the life of existing contracts. In addition to an immediate economic impact for owners and their teams, the deflator will have major ongoing effects on new contracts.

A new set of system deflators that will reduce spending on the individual contracts executed in the new, rolled-back marketplace. These system deflators include reduced qualifying offers; the use of rolled-back and new contracts as the only comparables available in salary arbitration at the election of the club for two new purposes identified by the NHL as important.

A payroll tax with lower thresholds and higher rates than previously proposed. The payroll tax will operate at the macroeconomics level to inhibit individual clubs from increasing payrolls beyond certain levels. If a club triggers the tax, its payments will flow into a poll for distribution by the NHL and the NHLPA.

A revenue redistribution plan that will (a) transfer money from the high-revenue clubs to the low-revenue clubs; and (b) encourage low-revenue clubs to increase their own revenues. The redistribution will operate at the macroeconomic level to inhibit spending on players by the clubs that have formerly spent the most.

Joint Player-Club committees designed to ensure real improvements in the game, its marketing and its revenues, along with other areas of mutual concern.

Adjustments and updates to a variety of other CBA provisions.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Aquaman]

McKenzie: A good news/bad news day

TSN.ca Staff
12/9/2004

Thursday's meeting between the National Hockey League and NHL Players' Association could be best described as a good news/bad news day.

The good news is that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said he got his acknowledgement from the NHLPA - for the first time in this process - that there are financial difficulties.

That financial acknowledgement came down in the form of a 24 percent rollback on salaries. You can call that breathtaking, sexy, or whatever you like.

The bad news is Bettman's admission during his news conference that he still has his firm set of beliefs - that is, what is required to be done in this process.

Of course, the beliefs we're referring to is that elephant in the room called cost certainty. And the owners Bettman has talked to - more than half the owners in the NHL - agree with his understanding.

The National Hockey League, in my mind, won't come back and simply throw up the cost certainty-linkage issue so much as they'll come back to negotiate those systemic issues brought forth by the players' association.

Where the proposed luxury tax is concerned, the NHLPA's offer of 20 cents on the dollar for payrolls of over $45 million certainly stands out.

When we presented the TSN Solution in October, we proposed a dollar-for-dollar tax on payrolls exceeding $38 million. The end result saw NHL owners and general managers laughing at us and saying that wasn't nearly enough.

With that in mind, 20 cents on $45 million isn't going to do it either.

That being said, they need to work on the systemic issues like luxury tax, arbitration and qualifying offers. If they do that, they can get the momentum going in the negotiations.

If the NHL wants to play that cost certainty card at the end, blow up the season and put the fate of the process completely on themselves - if there's a 'nuclear winter' because they have a deal they can otherwise live with notwithstanding cost certainty - then it's on the league's hands.

But there's no doubt that both sides need to negotiate and get some momentum on what was discussed Thursday and what will be discussed on Tuesday.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Aquaman]

NHLPA offers rollback on salaries

CP with files from TSN.ca
12/9/2004

TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association delivered a strong offer as promised Thursday, enough for the NHL to agree to meet again next Tuesday.

Sources indicate the union's offer was significant and addressed some of the league's concerns but still didn't include a link between player costs and league revenues - a salary cap, in other words.

Among the major points in today's proposal, the NHLPA has offered a 24% rollback on salaries and 20 cent tax on payroll over $45 million. The tax rises to 50 cents on the dollar over $50 million and 60 cents on the dollar over $60 million. The owners would also gain on entry level contracts with a cap on bonuses as well as arbitration rights.

"Significant, significant changes,'' said NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow.

The NHLPA says their proposal could save the league up to $600 million in salaries, but sources contacted by TSN said that the offer does not include any kind of mechanism to ensure that the salary giveback remains permanent.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman called one of the aspects of the players' proposal "significant", and said that the two sides will sit down and meet again next Tuesday, at which time the league is expected to present a counter offer.

''I think it's fair to say that this proposal touched more topics,'' said Bettman. ''Which is again a reason that I can't respond to it until we've been able to digest everything that's in there.''

While there was cautious optimism because the offer was enough to warrant another meeting, that could be wiped out in a hurry next week if the NHL comes back with a counter-proposal that includes the link between player costs and league revenues.

Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, said the league was taking the new offer seriously.

''They made a serious proposal, which I would suggest was the first one in this process,'' he said. ''But it is a serious proposal and certainly they showed a recognition of the economic problems that the game is facing and certainly we're appreciative of that. We now need to work together with them on systemic elements to make sure the economics of the game stay in-synch going forward.''

Thursday's meeting, which came three months to the day of the last negotiating session Sept. 9, began at 11:23 a.m. and ended around 3:20 p.m., with both sides squeezing in a lunch break at 1:45.

It was the first official meeting between the sides since Sept. 9. The lockout, which reached its 85th day Thursday, has forced cancellation of 382 regular-season games plus the 2005 all-star game.

The NHL says it lost $1.8 billion US over the 10-year run of the last collective bargaining agreement, including $273 million for the 2002-03 season and $224 million last season. The players dispute those figures.

The new NHLPA proposal is touted to save owners well over $200 million next season.


Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Insane3D]

I'm with the NHL on this. Screw the players...salary cap or dump em all and start with new players.

The AHL is way better this year as a result of the lockout anyhow...

 

[rh71]

"serious proposal" is the key here... whether or not they play in this season or the next... that is a positive sign.

During the cessation of meetings (the last 2-3 months), the players union kept suggesting the ball was in the NHL's court. It says a lot that the players union went ahead with this from their end anyway. You can read that from a couple angles.

 

[Aquaman]

Yashin loses big in NHLPA proposal

Canadian Press
12/10/2004

TORONTO (CP) - Alexei Yashin woke up Friday facing the prospect of being more than $15 million US poorer.

Considering Yashin has seven years and $64.8 million remaining on his 10-year deal with the New York Islanders, the 24 per cent salary rollback offered by the NHL Players' Association as part of its proposal to the NHL would be a blow to his bank account.

"It's a fact, he'd be the hardest-hit player," Yashin's agent Mark Gandler said Friday. "It's nice to wake up to a lot less money, isn't it?

"But it is what it is. If the season starts tomorrow, we're all very happy - for the fans, for the league, and for ourselves. But if the season does not start, then I suppose this proposal should be off the table because as time goes by, I think the 24 per cent makes less and less sense from our perspective."

New York Rangers star Jaromir Jagr would be the hardest hit in the short-term, going from an $11-million salary to $8.36 million this year and next. That would be pro-rated for a shortened season this year.

In fact, the union's rollback promises $270 million in savings to owners this year but that number was based on a full 2004-05 season, which of course can't possibly happen. One-third of the season has now gone by the wayside.

Still, the rollback hurts players for the entire existence of their current contracts.

Star winger Ryan Smyth of the Edmonton Oilers would drop from $3.55 million to a pro-rated salary of $2.7 million if there's hockey this year. He had heard of a massive rollback a few weeks ago but didn't believe it.

"I was skating down in Phoenix with Shane Doan and Tyson Nash, and I guess they had talked with (NHLPA executive committee member) Bob Boughner about the proposal, and they were talking to me about a 20 per cent rollback. And I said: `Not a chance,"' Smyth said Friday from Vancouver.

"So (the 24 per cent rollback) came as a surprise, for sure. But we have full faith in the union. They've put a lot of time and effort in this proposal and I think now the ball is in the league's court."

The NHLPA says its proposal would save the league more than $1 billion over six years, a figure that on the surface would seem to address the financial concerns stated by Arthur Levitt in his NHL-commissioned financial report.

"For the sake of the game, and the fans, I'm pleased that a dialogue has begun. And obviously I'm gratified that the arrangement that the players have announced acknowledges or recognizes the losses established by our studies," Levitt said Friday in phone interview.

Levitt, the former Securities & Exchange Commission Chairman, stated combined NHL losses of $273 million for the 2002-2003 season and using his formula the losses amounted $224 million last season.

The NHLPA denies reacting to Levitt's report in any way.

"That really had nothing to do with it," NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said Friday. "The attempt was to re-set the marketplace in a dramatic fashion in favour of the owners and to move forward from there.

"As we've said before, we have our issues with the Levitt numbers, and we know what the Forbes numbers are, but our rollback number had nothing to do with either of that."

While Levitt admires the rollback, like commissioner Gary Bettman he doesn't see it as fixing the financial landscape for years to come.

"I think it would help address the ills for one year, but that's hardly a long-term solution," Levitt said.<

"I think that whatever solution is arrived at has to address what I regard as a systemic problem. Too much of every dollar is going out to salaries - 73 cents is simply non-economic. So whatever arrangement they come up with has to establish an enduring response to that problem. Merely to create a fix for one year will just put them back at the bargaining table one year from now and that's not good."

NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow argued strongly that in fact the rollback has a ripple effect on the entire system, dragging down salary arbitration awards and all future signings, putting owners in the drivers' seat for years to come.

"We know that it was a very significant offer, it was intended to be that way," Saskin said Friday. "And we're optimistic that we will be able to move forward and get a deal completed."

The spotlight is now on Bettman and what his counter-proposal will include when the two sides resume bargaining talks Tuesday at 1 p.m. EST at the league's Toronto office.

Veteran agent Don Meehan says the union's offer shows the NHLPA understands and appreciates the league's financial concerns and that if Bettman still wants a salary cap, that means he's not really negotiating.

"Can he say they're not trying to understand and appreciate their problems? No, he can't do that anymore," Meehan said Friday.

"So get in there now and find a way. But if you're going to be in a position where you are dictating terms on systemic issues, what kind of collective bargaining agreement is ever conducted in a fashion like that?"

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Aquaman]

NHL stars shocked at pay cut offer

Canadian Press
12/10/2004

MOSCOW (CP) - NHL stars playing on the Primus Worldstars Tour woke up Friday morning to find their players' association had offered the league an across-the board 24 per cent pay cut.

For some, that was stronger than the coffee.

''It was surprising for everybody,'' said goaltender Martin Brodeur, who stands to lose $2 million US if the league accepts the offer. ''We knew something was coming up but we didn't know exactly how much.

''So everyone kind of said 'Whoa, that's steep,' but if it gets a deal done, good.''

Toronto Maple Leafs captain Mats Sundin was clearly pleased.

''It's smart - it puts the ball in the league's court,'' he said. ''Now, if there's no season, it's their fault.''

The players joined the 10-game, seven-country tour to keep busy and stay in shape during the three-month-old lockout, which was in a stalemate until NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow presented his startling offer this week.

The Worldstars beat Riga 2000 4-2 in Latvia in the tour opener Wednesday night and are to play against the Russia East all-stars on Saturday in Moscow and the Russia West stars on Sunday in St. Petersburg.

Due to time differences between Europe and North America, many players weren't aware of the offer until they got up in Riga on Friday morning to board a plane for Moscow.

Mostly, the players just want to get back to playing NHL hockey and put their faith in Goodenow to work out a deal.

''The players are doing this in good faith,'' said Brodeur. ''We're making a statement to the NHL and the people that we want this resolved.

''You don't ask your whole union to take a quarter of your salary off if you're just joking. There is something serious on the table and I hope the NHL considers it.''

Veteran sniper Luc Robitaille added with a smile: ''I didn't think we'd go that high, but Bob Goodenow would never just throw a number out just like that. And knowing Bob, he'll take a 24 per cent pay cut, too. I bet you he will.''

The two sides are to resume talks on Tuesday. Up to now, the league has insisted on some form of salary cap to control costs and they may yet reject the players' offer.

It is unknown how long they can remain without an agreement before the entire 2004-05 season is called off.

One who was cautious with the latest turn of events was goaltender Dominik Hasek, who suspects that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman wants more than the savings the players have offered.

''I don't want to comment until I see exactly what was offered and really study it,'' said Hasek, still waiting to play his first game as an Ottawa Senator. ''But definitely, when I first heard about it, I was shocked.

''It's a serious offer - not only for the pay cut - and it definitely helps small-market clubs. But I do not believe that (Bettman) cares about that. He wants to make big money for the NHL. That's the difference between the players' association and Gary Bettman. But we'll see what he comes back with.''

Still, the fact that the two sides are talking again has players optimistic for a settlement.

''I think everybody's got it in their heads now that we're going to start playing in January,'' said defenceman Barrett Jackman. ''Hopefully, this is enough, that the owners will take it seriously, tweak the things they have to and then we can play hockey.''

If a deal is reached next week, the Worldstars tour may halt abruptly, but agent Pat Brisson said it was unlikely that an agreement can be signed in time for training camps to start before the tour ends in Poland on Dec. 22. The tour also has stops coming up in the Czech Republic, Switzerland, Sweden and Norway.

Brisson, who works with IMG, which organized the tour, acknowledged that agents would also feel the pinch of the proposed pay cuts, but he just wants his clients back on the ice.

''Whether you charge four per cent or five per cent, you're still going to have interesting contracts,'' said Brisson. ''And we'd rather be negotiating contracts than not having anything to negotiate, like it is now. I'm fine with it.''

What Brisson was not fine with was the travel delays that have added too many idle hours to the tour since it set off from Toronto on Tuesday, a trip that ended up taking 14 hours due to refuelling stops and other tie-ups.

Friday's trip to Moscow was to have taken less than 90 minutes, but their chartered plane was delayed because it had been improperly loaded, so all the baggage had to be taken off and loaded on again.

Then there was a two and a half hour slog through traffic from Moscow's airport to the city, causing most of the team to miss a late-afternoon practice.

Sundin and defenceman Matthias Norstrom, who travelled on their own to Moscow, were able to skate, however.

Brisson promised baggage would from now on be shipped ahead of the team and flights should leave and arrive on time.

The Worldstars had only 17 players dressed in Riga, but should have a full contingent to face the Russians.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Aquaman]

NHL labour meeting set for Tuesday

TSN.ca/CP
12/10/2004

The NHL and NHLPA will be meeting Tuesday in Toronto at 1pm et/10am pt at which time the NHL is expected to respond to Thursday's NHLPA proposal.

Among the major points in Thursday's proposal, the NHLPA has offered a 24% rollback on salaries and 20 cent tax on payroll over $45 million. The tax rises to 50 cents on the dollar over $50 million and 60 cents on the dollar over $60 million. The owners would also gain on entry level contracts with a cap on bonuses as well as arbitration rights.

''We put a proposal on the table to really make a shock and to have the owners think 'hey, this is something we can work with,''' said Montreal Canadiens defenceman Craig Rivet.

The NHLPA says their proposal could save the league up to $600 million in salaries, but sources contacted by TSN said that the offer does not include any kind of mechanism to ensure that the salary giveback remains permanent.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman called one of the aspects of the players' proposal "significant", and said that the two sides will sit down and meet again next Tuesday, at which time the league is expected to present a counter offer.

''I think it's fair to say that this proposal touched more topics,'' said Bettman. ''Which is again a reason that I can't respond to it until we've been able to digest everything that's in there.''

Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, said the league was taking the new offer seriously.

''They made a serious proposal, which I would suggest was the first one in this process,'' he said. ''But it is a serious proposal and certainly they showed a recognition of the economic problems that the game is facing and certainly we're appreciative of that. We now need to work together with them on systemic elements to make sure the economics of the game stay in-synch going forward.''

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[rh71]

"oh no! I'm going from $3.5mil to $2.7mil this year ! HELL NO! How am I going to survive ?!?!?!?!" :roll:

How about going from $0 (or your measely stand-pat union pay) to $2.7mil this year Mr. Smyth ?

 

[meltdown75]

If they can find a way to even have half a season, I will be so happy I will probably cry. Not joking.

To get my pools fix would be great too. Damn I miss pools.

 

[sandorski]

I dreamt a couple nights ago that I was watching my beloved canucks on Hockey Night in Canada!

A premonition? Hope so.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: sandorski
I dreamt a couple nights ago that I was watching my beloved canucks on Hockey Night in Canada!

A premonition? Hope so.

Linden is the president of the player's union isn't he ? :|

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: sandorski
I dreamt a couple nights ago that I was watching my beloved canucks on Hockey Night in Canada!

A premonition? Hope so.

Linden is the president of the player's union isn't he ? :|

Not sure, I think he might be the Canucks Union rep, but I don't think he's the President. BTW, don't knock the Lindenator! :|

 

I love how the players think they are doing the league a "favor" by taking a pay cut.
Morons.

 

[rh71]

Bertuzzi cheered in 1st-on-ice return:

VANCOUVER, British Columbia -- Vancouver Canucks forward Todd Bertuzzi returned to the ice Sunday for the first time since being suspended for attacking Colorado's Steve Moore, playing in a charity game that included more than 30 locked-out NHL players.


Bertuzzi received a standing ovation from the capacity crowd during pregame ceremonies. It was the All-Star forward's first public appearance in Vancouver since Aug. 26, when he pleaded not guilty to assault charges for sucker-punching Moore. His trial is scheduled to begin Jan. 17.


Bertuzzi acknowledged the crowd with a wave of his stick and later assisted on a goal by Vancouver teammate Markus Naslund.


Bertuzzi, who blindsided Moore on March 8, is under indefinite suspension by the NHL. Moore was hospitalized with three fractured vertebrae, facial cuts, post-concussion symptoms and amnesia.


Vancouver's Brad May worked with the Western Hockey League's Vancouver Giants to organize the game, which benefited Canuck Place Children's Hospice. Calgary's Jarome Iginla, San Jose's Scott Hannan and Washington's Olaf Kolzig also took part.

Frankly I don't know why anyone would actually CHEER him.

Oh and I confirmed Linden is the NHLPA president... the 'nucks can't do anything right.

 

[Aquaman]

Players cautiously optimistic about Tuesday

Canadian Press
12/13/2004

VANCOUVER (CP) - There was cautious optimism but also a sense of finality as locked-out NHL players participating in a charity hockey game Sunday looked forward to next week's crucial meeting with owners.

Last week the union made an offer which included a 24 per cent rollback in salaries. Now some players were wondering how much more they have to give to save the NHL season.

There also are fears commissioner Gary Bettman and the owners won't back off their demand for cost certainty, which translates into a salary cap.

"The players have laid it out there," said Vancouver Canuck Trevor Linden, president of the NHL Players Association.

"The players are pretty much at the end so it will be interesting to see where he (Bettman) comes back at. With the strides the players have taken to get the game back on the ice it leads me to be hopeful."

Brad Lukowich of the Stanley Cup champion Tampa Bay Lightning was more cautious.

"They just seem to have their eyes set on this one thing," said Lukowich, one of about 30 NHL players who skated in the charity game organized by Vancouver's Brad May.

"We gave back more than they even asked. The only one thing we didn't give was a salary cap and that's the one thing we're not going to do. We found a way to save the money. It's odd it came down to the players to have to do that."

Vancouver Canuck goaltender Dan Cloutier said Tuesday's talks in Toronto could be the beginning of the end for the season.

"If they do reject this offer you can write off the season," said Cloutier.

"We've given a lot."

Canuck captain Markus Naslund said he hopes the latest player offer moves the owners off their determination to institute a salary cap.

"I hope they realize it was a significant offer," said Naslund.

"They really have to take it seriously. I hope they are not so stuck on the cap it ruins the whole thing."

Pat Morris, one of the most powerful player agents in the game, said he's not sure the season can be saved.

"I thought so last Thursday," said Morris.

"I'm not as optimistic after speaking to some people who should know."

Besides the salary rollback, the players proposed restraints on rookie salaries and a luxury tax that would penalize teams spending over prescribed amounts.

Morris fears that won't be enough to satisfy some owners.

"I have talked to six or seven general managers and their response doesn't leave me optimistic based upon comments like `this is only a band aid,"' said Morris.

"If they think that's a band aid we're in for a drastic shook with what is coming next week."

Jarome Iginla, the Calgary Flames team representative, was more positive.

"I don't think they are going to come back with a hard cap," said Iginla.

"Anybody can look at the proposal we gave. We've given them all the restrains they need. We've changed everything in their favour. I think there's ways to save this season and it's what was needed to be done."

Linden said the players proposal puts the onus on owners to run a good business instead of trying to protect themselves with a salary cap.

"It's about being responsible from a general manager's standpoint, it's about being responsible from a business standpoint," said Linden.

"It's all there. We're taking our steps to do what we can do. Now we need them to be responsible and work with us a little bit."

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[LtPage1]

funny story. id never even heard of a lockout until i saw this thread.

 

[Aquaman]

McKenzie: Opinions differ on NHLPA proposal

TSN.ca Staff
12/10/2004

The filtered word from the NHL ownership side - and it's filtered because they don't speak out on the record - is simply that they are decidedly unimpressed by the NHLPA's offer.

They look at it as short-term gain for long-term pain and if they've come this far - losing half a season and potentially all season and maybe more - they want what they came for and that's cost certainty.

From the player's perspective, a lot of them are upset at the potential of losing 24 percent of their salary. A guy like Mats Sundin, who's not over the hill by any stretch, is not going to make that money up.

Younger guys like Dany Heatley and Ilya Kovalchuk may run by that over the course of the time of a contract, but guys like Sundin and some of these older players won't, so that's a legitimate loss.

And there's something else to consider - whether Bob Goodenow of the NHLPA and his executives are prepared to admit it, there was great pressure on Goodenow to get to the table with the NHL and make a deal.

He was feeling that heat and that's what this offer is all about.

But now that he's made this offer, the players truly believe there's something on the table that the NHL can at least negotiate from. If the league doesn't negotiate off that and just comes back with cost certainty, I can assure you that the membership of the PA is now more than ever ready to walk into the valley of death with Goodenow.

The amount of time it might have have taken to break the players will on this will now increase substantially because they truly believe a legitimate offer has been made.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[meltdown75]

I believe that the offer proposed is "good enough" for now... hopefully enough for the league to work with. It would be nice to see the NHLPA entertain some possible additions to their offer as well - I doubt the league is going to simply say "ok" - it will be more like, "ok, but we also want this" which is expected in negotiations of any sort. $1 billion over 6 years is what the league will save under the new offer. It sounds like a lot but split up over 30 teams, that is only $33 million per team. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's peanuts.

All things considered, I would love nothing more than to see my Oilers back on the ice. If it takes until next September, so be it... but it better be a good fix if it takes that long.

 

[SaigonK]

The issue at hand is money, the players want it, the teams want it and the NHL commision wants it. It becomes how to get it all.
I agree with some statements by the players that certain teams should just be yanked off the leauge. Tampa, California, some of the southern teams..they dont fill the house and are constantly losing money for the owners. Maybe you dont close them down, but move them to a viable locaiton in Cananda or the North/Centra east.

I mean we added the COlumbus Blue Jackets to the NHL,..now I know that Ohiio likes hockey, but not that much, how are they going to make any cash?

The players need to realize that this isnt a well they can go to when they want to get a newFerari, it's a job, and if you can find me a single job where you neogitaite like this, then I need to sign up for that job. The real world means you dont get what you want, but you still have work and income, deal with it.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I believe that the offer proposed is "good enough" for now... hopefully enough for the league to work with. It would be nice to see the NHLPA entertain some possible additions to their offer as well - I doubt the league is going to simply say "ok" - it will be more like, "ok, but we also want this" which is expected in negotiations of any sort. $1 billion over 6 years is what the league will save under the new offer. It sounds like a lot but split up over 30 teams, that is only $33 million per team. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's peanuts.

All things considered, I would love nothing more than to see my Oilers back on the ice. If it takes until next September, so be it... but it better be a good fix if it takes that long.

See, that's the thing. "Good enough for now" is not a good fix. The salaries will just rise again because teams will continue to sign players for more and more money (all it takes is 1 team *cough*Rangers/Wings*cough*) and the rest NEED to spend more money in order to compete. The term "viscious cycle" applies here. Nothing will stop rising salaries except a cap. Cutting their own salaries by 24% does nothing to prevent that. All that was, was a goodwill gesture just to get back on the ice and get past the impasse. Players know it, but $$$ is on their mind now and always. Love of the game doesn't exist to most of those most outspoken.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I agree with contraction of certain teams (though it's not even considered in these talks for real)... better players, less teams ... money is under more control... and as a side effect... a better product on the ice to sell. What a concept.