McKenzie: Pitched battle
TSN.ca Staff
11/2/2004
Those on the outside have probably been wondering a little bit about the dynamic of this NHLPA meeting, in light of some of the critical comments that were made by some players last week. Would this be a fire and brimstone meeting with people shaking their fingers at Bob Goodenow and saying 'Get back to the table'?
It was anything but.
In fact, the information flowed the other way, and I think it was Bob Goodenow saying to his guys, 'Look, we're in a pitched battle with a very tough opponent that is committed to their cause just as we're committed to our cause. we are hardly into this. Everybody better take a deep breath and relax.'
And he probably talked to those player reps and told them, 'Go back and tell your guys that this is a long, hard battle and we're in this for the distance,' and that's why there was such a sense of solidarity coming out of that meeting.
What does that solidarity mean? Well, it probably means that we're not going to have hockey this year, but that remains to be seen.
Looking at the time between negotiation sessions, all the earlier negotiations between these two sides were window dressing. Let's not kid anybody. They weren't really negotiating. They were meeting for the sake of meeting.
Now that the two sides haven't met for 54-plus days, they may go another 54-plus days without having a meeting, and the situation has never been more bleak than it is. Bob Goodenow said today that there's not going to be an offer that comes out of this meeting, but I believe that the NHLPA at some point -- whether it's a week, a month or a couple of months -- will make an offer and the offer will be designed to have a stiff luxury tax, much different than what they've proposed so far.
They'll throw it up there to Gary Bettman and the owners and say, 'There you go. Now we're interested in real change.' It could be, if nothing else, a public relations gambit to get some fans back on the side of the players because to this point in time the fans have been dead against them.
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff
11/2/2004
Those on the outside have probably been wondering a little bit about the dynamic of this NHLPA meeting, in light of some of the critical comments that were made by some players last week. Would this be a fire and brimstone meeting with people shaking their fingers at Bob Goodenow and saying 'Get back to the table'?
It was anything but.
In fact, the information flowed the other way, and I think it was Bob Goodenow saying to his guys, 'Look, we're in a pitched battle with a very tough opponent that is committed to their cause just as we're committed to our cause. we are hardly into this. Everybody better take a deep breath and relax.'
And he probably talked to those player reps and told them, 'Go back and tell your guys that this is a long, hard battle and we're in this for the distance,' and that's why there was such a sense of solidarity coming out of that meeting.
What does that solidarity mean? Well, it probably means that we're not going to have hockey this year, but that remains to be seen.
Looking at the time between negotiation sessions, all the earlier negotiations between these two sides were window dressing. Let's not kid anybody. They weren't really negotiating. They were meeting for the sake of meeting.
Now that the two sides haven't met for 54-plus days, they may go another 54-plus days without having a meeting, and the situation has never been more bleak than it is. Bob Goodenow said today that there's not going to be an offer that comes out of this meeting, but I believe that the NHLPA at some point -- whether it's a week, a month or a couple of months -- will make an offer and the offer will be designed to have a stiff luxury tax, much different than what they've proposed so far.
They'll throw it up there to Gary Bettman and the owners and say, 'There you go. Now we're interested in real change.' It could be, if nothing else, a public relations gambit to get some fans back on the side of the players because to this point in time the fans have been dead against them.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Linden defends NHLers in Europe
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - Trevor Linden has a message for former Vancouver Canucks teammate Corey Hirsch: look in the mirror.
Linden, the president of the players' executive committee at the NHL Players' Association, steadfastly defended his NHL colleagues for plying their trade in Europe while the lockout endures.
Hirsch, who played with Linden's Canucks in the late 1990s, twice ripped into NHLers in the last week for taking jobs away from players such as himself in Europe.
``Corey went there three years ago and certainly took someone else's job,'' Linden said after Tuesday's NHLPA meeting. ``Now it's happening to him and it'll happen to me one day.''
Added Linden: ``Hockey's a competitive game. Guys fight for their jobs every day.''
The union's view, or at least at the top, is that it's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and not just in hockey.
``That's the nature of employment in all walks of life, someone is always taking someone else's job,'' said St. Louis Blues star Chris Pronger, defending the rights of NHLers in Europe. ``We're locked out, we don't have a job.
``We're free to look for employment elsewhere. If we were on strike, I would feel different.''
Not everyone agrees. Edmonton Oilers winger Georges Laraque slammed his fellow NHLers in Europe.
``It's not right,'' Laraque told the Edmonton Journal. ``It's like being locked out by IGA, then deciding to go and work for another store.
``You put staff out of work.''
The Oilers tough guy said he can't stomach seeing more than 240 NHLers in Europe.
``As a union, we should be respecting the players over in Europe,'' he said. ``As a union, we should be all skating together here.
``We shouldn't be taking their spots.''
Still, the overwhelming marority of players believe it's their right to play hockey anywhere they can while the NHL owners lock them out.
``It's not been a divisive issue at all in the membership,'' said NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow. ``The players are locked out and are free to find other employment.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - Trevor Linden has a message for former Vancouver Canucks teammate Corey Hirsch: look in the mirror.
Linden, the president of the players' executive committee at the NHL Players' Association, steadfastly defended his NHL colleagues for plying their trade in Europe while the lockout endures.
Hirsch, who played with Linden's Canucks in the late 1990s, twice ripped into NHLers in the last week for taking jobs away from players such as himself in Europe.
``Corey went there three years ago and certainly took someone else's job,'' Linden said after Tuesday's NHLPA meeting. ``Now it's happening to him and it'll happen to me one day.''
Added Linden: ``Hockey's a competitive game. Guys fight for their jobs every day.''
The union's view, or at least at the top, is that it's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and not just in hockey.
``That's the nature of employment in all walks of life, someone is always taking someone else's job,'' said St. Louis Blues star Chris Pronger, defending the rights of NHLers in Europe. ``We're locked out, we don't have a job.
``We're free to look for employment elsewhere. If we were on strike, I would feel different.''
Not everyone agrees. Edmonton Oilers winger Georges Laraque slammed his fellow NHLers in Europe.
``It's not right,'' Laraque told the Edmonton Journal. ``It's like being locked out by IGA, then deciding to go and work for another store.
``You put staff out of work.''
The Oilers tough guy said he can't stomach seeing more than 240 NHLers in Europe.
``As a union, we should be respecting the players over in Europe,'' he said. ``As a union, we should be all skating together here.
``We shouldn't be taking their spots.''
Still, the overwhelming marority of players believe it's their right to play hockey anywhere they can while the NHL owners lock them out.
``It's not been a divisive issue at all in the membership,'' said NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow. ``The players are locked out and are free to find other employment.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
NHLPA set to unveil lockout pay plan
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - Help is on the way for NHL players feeling the pinch during the lockout.
Trevor Linden, the president of the players' executive committee for the NHL Players' Association, confirmed Tuesday that the union will dish out financial relief to players in the near future.
``The executive committee is looking at that now,'' said the Vancouver Canucks centre. ``We've got a plan for that and it's going to be unveiled in the next few weeks.''
The players have so far gone without two of the 13 paycheques that are usually handed out during a full regular season. The next scheduled pay day from NHL clubs would have been Nov. 15 but that, too, will go by the wayside while the labour dispute lasts.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - Help is on the way for NHL players feeling the pinch during the lockout.
Trevor Linden, the president of the players' executive committee for the NHL Players' Association, confirmed Tuesday that the union will dish out financial relief to players in the near future.
``The executive committee is looking at that now,'' said the Vancouver Canucks centre. ``We've got a plan for that and it's going to be unveiled in the next few weeks.''
The players have so far gone without two of the 13 paycheques that are usually handed out during a full regular season. The next scheduled pay day from NHL clubs would have been Nov. 15 but that, too, will go by the wayside while the labour dispute lasts.
Cheers,
Aquaman
NHLPA committed to fight salary cap
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association and its core group emerged united following a four-hour meeting Tuesday, seemingly as committed as ever to fight a salary cap.
Even if it takes a long time.
``If a cap is all the league wants, we're prepared to go as long as it takes to fight it,'' said Vincent Damphousse, a member of the players' executive committee. ``I'm 36 going on 37 (in December). I may not play again because of this.
``But I made a lot of money because of the sacrifices from guys under the last deal. So I'm not going to be selfish. I'm going to do what's right for the membership.''
The players are digging their heels and readying themselves for a long fight. And commissioner Gary Bettman is definitely public enemy No. 1.
``I think there's a lot of great owners out there but there's a madman leading them down the wrong path,'' Philadelphia Flyers netminder Robert Esche said.
While the meeting was a previously scheduled update for the membership, Tuesday's show of solidarity was timely given a scattering of dissent from some lower-rung players.
``There's absolutely no cracks or divisiveness in this membership,'' NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow, with a tint of emotion, told a packed news conference at an airport hotel.
``We're more united now than we were before today,'' echoed St. Louis Blues star Chris Pronger.
The NHL was unfazed.
``We are not at all surprised by the public positioning of today's meeting in Toronto,'' Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president, said from New York. ``We didn't really expect to hear anything other than what we heard.''
There were 74 players on hand Tuesday, most of them player reps. The gathering even included Habs winger Pierre Dagenais, who caused a ripple last week when he said he would not only play under a salary cap but believed many other players shared his opinion.
Dagenais was publicly praised for venturing into the lions' den after such comments.
``I think everybody in that room was pretty proud of him for showing up here and explaining his comments,'' said Pronger, as staunch a union backer as there is. ``A couple of guys actually got up and gave him some kind words.''
Dagenais was given the floor to explain his comments and then sat back and received a salary cap discourse from several players.
``He understands now that a cap system would hurt him as much as it would hurt me and anyone else in the membership,'' said Damphousse, who plays with Dagenais in the McDonald's Caravan four-on-four charity circuit in Quebec. ``I invited Pierre to the meeting. I called him and told him that information is power, that information is important when you're making a decision.
``I think he's very happy that he came. He showed a lot of guts coming here in front of the guys and guys respect that. You're allowed your opinion but at the same time you need to make the effort to get all the information.''
Dagenais, wearing an NHLPA baseball cap for the cameras, has obviously softened his stance but didn't exactly back down from his earlier comments.
``I said what I said but I have a lot of respect for the guys here. They're trying hard for us,'' he said to a huge media scrum.
Asked in French why he wouldn't answer whether or not he would still play under a cap, he said: ``I don't have to answer that. All I want is to play hockey and these guys are working hard to fix the problem.''
One area where Dagenais appears to have changed his mind is where many fringe players like himself have reservations: whether or not the union leadership if fighting for all 750 players.
``I learned that the union isn't just working for the high-priced players, they're working for everyone, including the low-end guys,'' Dagenais said in French. ``A guy like (Nashville tough guy) Jim McKenzie, who's a third- and fourth-liner like me, he had his say today.''
Goodenow appeared ready to explode when asked about whether the union cared less about the lower-rung players.
``That is so far off the mark that it's ridiculous,'' he said. ``This association is very focused on the rank and file, the third- and fourth-liners.''
And furthermore, Goodenow said, for any of the lower-rung players to suggest they're willing to play under a salary cap shows they don't understand the implications.
``The victims in cap systems are the lower-rung players,'' Goodenow said. ``They get squeezed out.''
Star winger Jarome Iginla of the Calgary Flames blamed himself somewhat after having teammate Mike Commodore make headlines for saying he would play under a cap.
``I do feel some responsibility,'' Iginla said. ``Everybody has an opinion, and it's an emotional time. People have different ideas and unlike the NHL we don't have a million-dollar gag order. But the one disappointing thing as a player rep is that he felt he didn't have a say in the process.
``So I've talked to him, it's part of my job as a player rep to relay to players they do have a say and help them remain informed.''
So what now?
No talks are planned for the immediate future between the NHL and NHLPA. The union says the league has made it clear not to show up to the negotiating table until it can talk salary cap.
``We've made concessions already of nearly $200 million (US),'' said Damphousse, referring to the union's last proposal based on a luxury tax and revenue sharing. ``At some point it needs to come back and they need to make a move near our side. We're willing to negotiate but they're not.
``If they don't want to move from a cap, we're willing to wait as long as it takes.''
The owners, unlike 10 years ago, are ready to stick it out a whole year, as shown by their $300-million US lockout fund.
And the players insist they won't blink.
``Once you've gone into the poker game long enough, when do you pull out? I've put my chips in the game and I'll ride it out as long as it is,'' said San Jose Sharks player rep Alyn McCauley. ``Some guys along the way may lose their careers over this but you have to make the decision for the better of the group.
``They certainly have to come off that point of a salary cap before we make any progress.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association and its core group emerged united following a four-hour meeting Tuesday, seemingly as committed as ever to fight a salary cap.
Even if it takes a long time.
``If a cap is all the league wants, we're prepared to go as long as it takes to fight it,'' said Vincent Damphousse, a member of the players' executive committee. ``I'm 36 going on 37 (in December). I may not play again because of this.
``But I made a lot of money because of the sacrifices from guys under the last deal. So I'm not going to be selfish. I'm going to do what's right for the membership.''
The players are digging their heels and readying themselves for a long fight. And commissioner Gary Bettman is definitely public enemy No. 1.
``I think there's a lot of great owners out there but there's a madman leading them down the wrong path,'' Philadelphia Flyers netminder Robert Esche said.
While the meeting was a previously scheduled update for the membership, Tuesday's show of solidarity was timely given a scattering of dissent from some lower-rung players.
``There's absolutely no cracks or divisiveness in this membership,'' NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow, with a tint of emotion, told a packed news conference at an airport hotel.
``We're more united now than we were before today,'' echoed St. Louis Blues star Chris Pronger.
The NHL was unfazed.
``We are not at all surprised by the public positioning of today's meeting in Toronto,'' Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president, said from New York. ``We didn't really expect to hear anything other than what we heard.''
There were 74 players on hand Tuesday, most of them player reps. The gathering even included Habs winger Pierre Dagenais, who caused a ripple last week when he said he would not only play under a salary cap but believed many other players shared his opinion.
Dagenais was publicly praised for venturing into the lions' den after such comments.
``I think everybody in that room was pretty proud of him for showing up here and explaining his comments,'' said Pronger, as staunch a union backer as there is. ``A couple of guys actually got up and gave him some kind words.''
Dagenais was given the floor to explain his comments and then sat back and received a salary cap discourse from several players.
``He understands now that a cap system would hurt him as much as it would hurt me and anyone else in the membership,'' said Damphousse, who plays with Dagenais in the McDonald's Caravan four-on-four charity circuit in Quebec. ``I invited Pierre to the meeting. I called him and told him that information is power, that information is important when you're making a decision.
``I think he's very happy that he came. He showed a lot of guts coming here in front of the guys and guys respect that. You're allowed your opinion but at the same time you need to make the effort to get all the information.''
Dagenais, wearing an NHLPA baseball cap for the cameras, has obviously softened his stance but didn't exactly back down from his earlier comments.
``I said what I said but I have a lot of respect for the guys here. They're trying hard for us,'' he said to a huge media scrum.
Asked in French why he wouldn't answer whether or not he would still play under a cap, he said: ``I don't have to answer that. All I want is to play hockey and these guys are working hard to fix the problem.''
One area where Dagenais appears to have changed his mind is where many fringe players like himself have reservations: whether or not the union leadership if fighting for all 750 players.
``I learned that the union isn't just working for the high-priced players, they're working for everyone, including the low-end guys,'' Dagenais said in French. ``A guy like (Nashville tough guy) Jim McKenzie, who's a third- and fourth-liner like me, he had his say today.''
Goodenow appeared ready to explode when asked about whether the union cared less about the lower-rung players.
``That is so far off the mark that it's ridiculous,'' he said. ``This association is very focused on the rank and file, the third- and fourth-liners.''
And furthermore, Goodenow said, for any of the lower-rung players to suggest they're willing to play under a salary cap shows they don't understand the implications.
``The victims in cap systems are the lower-rung players,'' Goodenow said. ``They get squeezed out.''
Star winger Jarome Iginla of the Calgary Flames blamed himself somewhat after having teammate Mike Commodore make headlines for saying he would play under a cap.
``I do feel some responsibility,'' Iginla said. ``Everybody has an opinion, and it's an emotional time. People have different ideas and unlike the NHL we don't have a million-dollar gag order. But the one disappointing thing as a player rep is that he felt he didn't have a say in the process.
``So I've talked to him, it's part of my job as a player rep to relay to players they do have a say and help them remain informed.''
So what now?
No talks are planned for the immediate future between the NHL and NHLPA. The union says the league has made it clear not to show up to the negotiating table until it can talk salary cap.
``We've made concessions already of nearly $200 million (US),'' said Damphousse, referring to the union's last proposal based on a luxury tax and revenue sharing. ``At some point it needs to come back and they need to make a move near our side. We're willing to negotiate but they're not.
``If they don't want to move from a cap, we're willing to wait as long as it takes.''
The owners, unlike 10 years ago, are ready to stick it out a whole year, as shown by their $300-million US lockout fund.
And the players insist they won't blink.
``Once you've gone into the poker game long enough, when do you pull out? I've put my chips in the game and I'll ride it out as long as it is,'' said San Jose Sharks player rep Alyn McCauley. ``Some guys along the way may lose their careers over this but you have to make the decision for the better of the group.
``They certainly have to come off that point of a salary cap before we make any progress.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
If you have $40 mil to spend, and forsberg wants 10, someone will pay him 10 to play. That only leaves 30 for the entire rest of the team. Now if that team had found someone else for 5, there'd be an extra 5 mil sitting around to spread out amongst the rest of the team.
I say fvck them all. I suck at skating, but I'd play for $80k/yr no problem.
NHLPA committed to fight salary cap
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association and its core group emerged united following a four-hour meeting Tuesday, seemingly as committed as ever to fight a salary cap.
Even if it takes a long time.
``If a cap is all the league wants, we're prepared to go as long as it takes to fight it,'' said Vincent Damphousse, a member of the players' executive committee. ``I'm 36 going on 37 (in December). I may not play again because of this.
``But I made a lot of money because of the sacrifices from guys under the last deal. So I'm not going to be selfish. I'm going to do what's right for the membership.''
The players are digging their heels and readying themselves for a long fight. And commissioner Gary Bettman is definitely public enemy No. 1.
``I think there's a lot of great owners out there but there's a madman leading them down the wrong path,'' Philadelphia Flyers netminder Robert Esche said.
While the meeting was a previously scheduled update for the membership, Tuesday's show of solidarity was timely given a scattering of dissent from some lower-rung players.
``There's absolutely no cracks or divisiveness in this membership,'' NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow, with a tint of emotion, told a packed news conference at an airport hotel.
``We're more united now than we were before today,'' echoed St. Louis Blues star Chris Pronger.
The NHL was unfazed.
``We are not at all surprised by the public positioning of today's meeting in Toronto,'' Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president, said from New York. ``We didn't really expect to hear anything other than what we heard.''
There were 74 players on hand Tuesday, most of them player reps. The gathering even included Habs winger Pierre Dagenais, who caused a ripple last week when he said he would not only play under a salary cap but believed many other players shared his opinion.
Dagenais was publicly praised for venturing into the lions' den after such comments.
``I think everybody in that room was pretty proud of him for showing up here and explaining his comments,'' said Pronger, as staunch a union backer as there is. ``A couple of guys actually got up and gave him some kind words.''
Dagenais was given the floor to explain his comments and then sat back and received a salary cap discourse from several players.
``He understands now that a cap system would hurt him as much as it would hurt me and anyone else in the membership,'' said Damphousse, who plays with Dagenais in the McDonald's Caravan four-on-four charity circuit in Quebec. ``I invited Pierre to the meeting. I called him and told him that information is power, that information is important when you're making a decision.
``I think he's very happy that he came. He showed a lot of guts coming here in front of the guys and guys respect that. You're allowed your opinion but at the same time you need to make the effort to get all the information.''
Dagenais, wearing an NHLPA baseball cap for the cameras, has obviously softened his stance but didn't exactly back down from his earlier comments.
``I said what I said but I have a lot of respect for the guys here. They're trying hard for us,'' he said to a huge media scrum.
Asked in French why he wouldn't answer whether or not he would still play under a cap, he said: ``I don't have to answer that. All I want is to play hockey and these guys are working hard to fix the problem.''
One area where Dagenais appears to have changed his mind is where many fringe players like himself have reservations: whether or not the union leadership if fighting for all 750 players.
``I learned that the union isn't just working for the high-priced players, they're working for everyone, including the low-end guys,'' Dagenais said in French. ``A guy like (Nashville tough guy) Jim McKenzie, who's a third- and fourth-liner like me, he had his say today.''
Goodenow appeared ready to explode when asked about whether the union cared less about the lower-rung players.
``That is so far off the mark that it's ridiculous,'' he said. ``This association is very focused on the rank and file, the third- and fourth-liners.''
And furthermore, Goodenow said, for any of the lower-rung players to suggest they're willing to play under a salary cap shows they don't understand the implications.
``The victims in cap systems are the lower-rung players,'' Goodenow said. ``They get squeezed out.''
Star winger Jarome Iginla of the Calgary Flames blamed himself somewhat after having teammate Mike Commodore make headlines for saying he would play under a cap.
``I do feel some responsibility,'' Iginla said. ``Everybody has an opinion, and it's an emotional time. People have different ideas and unlike the NHL we don't have a million-dollar gag order. But the one disappointing thing as a player rep is that he felt he didn't have a say in the process.
``So I've talked to him, it's part of my job as a player rep to relay to players they do have a say and help them remain informed.''
So what now?
No talks are planned for the immediate future between the NHL and NHLPA. The union says the league has made it clear not to show up to the negotiating table until it can talk salary cap.
``We've made concessions already of nearly $200 million (US),'' said Damphousse, referring to the union's last proposal based on a luxury tax and revenue sharing. ``At some point it needs to come back and they need to make a move near our side. We're willing to negotiate but they're not.
``If they don't want to move from a cap, we're willing to wait as long as it takes.''
The owners, unlike 10 years ago, are ready to stick it out a whole year, as shown by their $300-million US lockout fund.
And the players insist they won't blink.
``Once you've gone into the poker game long enough, when do you pull out? I've put my chips in the game and I'll ride it out as long as it is,'' said San Jose Sharks player rep Alyn McCauley. ``Some guys along the way may lose their careers over this but you have to make the decision for the better of the group.
``They certainly have to come off that point of a salary cap before we make any progress.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
11/2/2004
TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association and its core group emerged united following a four-hour meeting Tuesday, seemingly as committed as ever to fight a salary cap.
Even if it takes a long time.
``If a cap is all the league wants, we're prepared to go as long as it takes to fight it,'' said Vincent Damphousse, a member of the players' executive committee. ``I'm 36 going on 37 (in December). I may not play again because of this.
``But I made a lot of money because of the sacrifices from guys under the last deal. So I'm not going to be selfish. I'm going to do what's right for the membership.''
The players are digging their heels and readying themselves for a long fight. And commissioner Gary Bettman is definitely public enemy No. 1.
``I think there's a lot of great owners out there but there's a madman leading them down the wrong path,'' Philadelphia Flyers netminder Robert Esche said.
While the meeting was a previously scheduled update for the membership, Tuesday's show of solidarity was timely given a scattering of dissent from some lower-rung players.
``There's absolutely no cracks or divisiveness in this membership,'' NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow, with a tint of emotion, told a packed news conference at an airport hotel.
``We're more united now than we were before today,'' echoed St. Louis Blues star Chris Pronger.
The NHL was unfazed.
``We are not at all surprised by the public positioning of today's meeting in Toronto,'' Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president, said from New York. ``We didn't really expect to hear anything other than what we heard.''
There were 74 players on hand Tuesday, most of them player reps. The gathering even included Habs winger Pierre Dagenais, who caused a ripple last week when he said he would not only play under a salary cap but believed many other players shared his opinion.
Dagenais was publicly praised for venturing into the lions' den after such comments.
``I think everybody in that room was pretty proud of him for showing up here and explaining his comments,'' said Pronger, as staunch a union backer as there is. ``A couple of guys actually got up and gave him some kind words.''
Dagenais was given the floor to explain his comments and then sat back and received a salary cap discourse from several players.
``He understands now that a cap system would hurt him as much as it would hurt me and anyone else in the membership,'' said Damphousse, who plays with Dagenais in the McDonald's Caravan four-on-four charity circuit in Quebec. ``I invited Pierre to the meeting. I called him and told him that information is power, that information is important when you're making a decision.
``I think he's very happy that he came. He showed a lot of guts coming here in front of the guys and guys respect that. You're allowed your opinion but at the same time you need to make the effort to get all the information.''
Dagenais, wearing an NHLPA baseball cap for the cameras, has obviously softened his stance but didn't exactly back down from his earlier comments.
``I said what I said but I have a lot of respect for the guys here. They're trying hard for us,'' he said to a huge media scrum.
Asked in French why he wouldn't answer whether or not he would still play under a cap, he said: ``I don't have to answer that. All I want is to play hockey and these guys are working hard to fix the problem.''
One area where Dagenais appears to have changed his mind is where many fringe players like himself have reservations: whether or not the union leadership if fighting for all 750 players.
``I learned that the union isn't just working for the high-priced players, they're working for everyone, including the low-end guys,'' Dagenais said in French. ``A guy like (Nashville tough guy) Jim McKenzie, who's a third- and fourth-liner like me, he had his say today.''
Goodenow appeared ready to explode when asked about whether the union cared less about the lower-rung players.
``That is so far off the mark that it's ridiculous,'' he said. ``This association is very focused on the rank and file, the third- and fourth-liners.''
And furthermore, Goodenow said, for any of the lower-rung players to suggest they're willing to play under a salary cap shows they don't understand the implications.
``The victims in cap systems are the lower-rung players,'' Goodenow said. ``They get squeezed out.''
Star winger Jarome Iginla of the Calgary Flames blamed himself somewhat after having teammate Mike Commodore make headlines for saying he would play under a cap.
``I do feel some responsibility,'' Iginla said. ``Everybody has an opinion, and it's an emotional time. People have different ideas and unlike the NHL we don't have a million-dollar gag order. But the one disappointing thing as a player rep is that he felt he didn't have a say in the process.
``So I've talked to him, it's part of my job as a player rep to relay to players they do have a say and help them remain informed.''
So what now?
No talks are planned for the immediate future between the NHL and NHLPA. The union says the league has made it clear not to show up to the negotiating table until it can talk salary cap.
``We've made concessions already of nearly $200 million (US),'' said Damphousse, referring to the union's last proposal based on a luxury tax and revenue sharing. ``At some point it needs to come back and they need to make a move near our side. We're willing to negotiate but they're not.
``If they don't want to move from a cap, we're willing to wait as long as it takes.''
The owners, unlike 10 years ago, are ready to stick it out a whole year, as shown by their $300-million US lockout fund.
And the players insist they won't blink.
``Once you've gone into the poker game long enough, when do you pull out? I've put my chips in the game and I'll ride it out as long as it is,'' said San Jose Sharks player rep Alyn McCauley. ``Some guys along the way may lose their careers over this but you have to make the decision for the better of the group.
``They certainly have to come off that point of a salary cap before we make any progress.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
Stevenson: No hockey this year
TSN.ca Staff
11/3/2004
Philadelphia Flyers forward Turner Stevenson says fans should not expect to see any NHL hockey played this season.
"I've said for a year now, it's going to be at least a year, and I still think that's the case," he tells the Prince George Citizen.
"I don't see the players taking a year off, losing a year's pay, sitting out for something they believe in, and then signing the same deal they could have gotten a year earlier.
"Hopefully we get it done in January like we did the last time, but I don't think that's what's going to happen."
"No Stanley Cup handed out this year."
Stevenson believes it is the owners goal to make the players suffer financially and that if they attempted to start again using replacement players, there would be trouble.
"I don't know what the owners plan on doing, if it's using (replacement) players, or what," he tells the newspaper. "But players have contracts, and that would end up in so much litigation. . . there would be so many lawyers involved it wouldn't be funny.
"I don't think people will pay $100 to watch minor-league players, when they can watch a minor-league game for $15."
Stevenson, who signed a three year, $4.9-million deal with the Flyers this past summer, adds he's not impressed by comments from some of the younger players who would consider playing under a salary cap if it meant an end to the lockout.
"It's easy for them to say that. When I signed, I got a $120,000 signing bonus, everyone now is getting $750,000 or more. . . If some of these guys left the game tomorrow, no one would miss them, so their opinion is an uneducated one."
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff
11/3/2004
Philadelphia Flyers forward Turner Stevenson says fans should not expect to see any NHL hockey played this season.
"I've said for a year now, it's going to be at least a year, and I still think that's the case," he tells the Prince George Citizen.
"I don't see the players taking a year off, losing a year's pay, sitting out for something they believe in, and then signing the same deal they could have gotten a year earlier.
"Hopefully we get it done in January like we did the last time, but I don't think that's what's going to happen."
"No Stanley Cup handed out this year."
Stevenson believes it is the owners goal to make the players suffer financially and that if they attempted to start again using replacement players, there would be trouble.
"I don't know what the owners plan on doing, if it's using (replacement) players, or what," he tells the newspaper. "But players have contracts, and that would end up in so much litigation. . . there would be so many lawyers involved it wouldn't be funny.
"I don't think people will pay $100 to watch minor-league players, when they can watch a minor-league game for $15."
Stevenson, who signed a three year, $4.9-million deal with the Flyers this past summer, adds he's not impressed by comments from some of the younger players who would consider playing under a salary cap if it meant an end to the lockout.
"It's easy for them to say that. When I signed, I got a $120,000 signing bonus, everyone now is getting $750,000 or more. . . If some of these guys left the game tomorrow, no one would miss them, so their opinion is an uneducated one."
Cheers,
Aquaman
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,699
- 6,257
- 126
NHL cancels All-Star Game
Canadian Press
11/3/2004
NEW YORK (CP) - The NHL has cancelled the Feb. 12-13 all-star weekend in Atlanta because of the lockout.
There's still a chance hockey will resume this year but a shortened season will need all the dates possible to squeeze in games and the four-day all-star break had to go. Through Wednesday, 139 games had already gone by the wayside because of the labour dispute.
``We're sorry the realities of our situation have imposed themselves on what should be a special time for the city of Atlanta and our fans,'' Thrashers GM Don Waddell said in a statement Wednesday.
``The NHL and this organization are committed to bringing the all-star game to Atlanta within the next few years and presenting one of the best all-star weekends in history.''
NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said the game would have helped build interest in hockey in Atlanta.
``This is another unfortunate casualty of the owners' decision to lock out the players and shut down the game,'' Saskin said in a statement.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
11/3/2004
NEW YORK (CP) - The NHL has cancelled the Feb. 12-13 all-star weekend in Atlanta because of the lockout.
There's still a chance hockey will resume this year but a shortened season will need all the dates possible to squeeze in games and the four-day all-star break had to go. Through Wednesday, 139 games had already gone by the wayside because of the labour dispute.
``We're sorry the realities of our situation have imposed themselves on what should be a special time for the city of Atlanta and our fans,'' Thrashers GM Don Waddell said in a statement Wednesday.
``The NHL and this organization are committed to bringing the all-star game to Atlanta within the next few years and presenting one of the best all-star weekends in history.''
NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said the game would have helped build interest in hockey in Atlanta.
``This is another unfortunate casualty of the owners' decision to lock out the players and shut down the game,'' Saskin said in a statement.
Cheers,
Aquaman
McKenzie: Pitched battle
TSN.ca Staff
11/2/2004
Those on the outside have probably been wondering a little bit about the dynamic of this NHLPA meeting, in light of some of the critical comments that were made by some players last week. Would this be a fire and brimstone meeting with people shaking their fingers at Bob Goodenow and saying 'Get back to the table'?
It was anything but.
In fact, the information flowed the other way, and I think it was Bob Goodenow saying to his guys, 'Look, we're in a pitched battle with a very tough opponent that is committed to their cause just as we're committed to our cause. we are hardly into this. Everybody better take a deep breath and relax.'
And he probably talked to those player reps and told them, 'Go back and tell your guys that this is a long, hard battle and we're in this for the distance,' and that's why there was such a sense of solidarity coming out of that meeting.
What does that solidarity mean? Well, it probably means that we're not going to have hockey this year, but that remains to be seen.
Looking at the time between negotiation sessions, all the earlier negotiations between these two sides were window dressing. Let's not kid anybody. They weren't really negotiating. They were meeting for the sake of meeting.
Now that the two sides haven't met for 54-plus days, they may go another 54-plus days without having a meeting, and the situation has never been more bleak than it is. Bob Goodenow said today that there's not going to be an offer that comes out of this meeting, but I believe that the NHLPA at some point -- whether it's a week, a month or a couple of months -- will make an offer and the offer will be designed to have a stiff luxury tax, much different than what they've proposed so far.
They'll throw it up there to Gary Bettman and the owners and say, 'There you go. Now we're interested in real change.' It could be, if nothing else, a public relations gambit to get some fans back on the side of the players because to this point in time the fans have been dead against them.
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff
11/2/2004
Those on the outside have probably been wondering a little bit about the dynamic of this NHLPA meeting, in light of some of the critical comments that were made by some players last week. Would this be a fire and brimstone meeting with people shaking their fingers at Bob Goodenow and saying 'Get back to the table'?
It was anything but.
In fact, the information flowed the other way, and I think it was Bob Goodenow saying to his guys, 'Look, we're in a pitched battle with a very tough opponent that is committed to their cause just as we're committed to our cause. we are hardly into this. Everybody better take a deep breath and relax.'
And he probably talked to those player reps and told them, 'Go back and tell your guys that this is a long, hard battle and we're in this for the distance,' and that's why there was such a sense of solidarity coming out of that meeting.
What does that solidarity mean? Well, it probably means that we're not going to have hockey this year, but that remains to be seen.
Looking at the time between negotiation sessions, all the earlier negotiations between these two sides were window dressing. Let's not kid anybody. They weren't really negotiating. They were meeting for the sake of meeting.
Now that the two sides haven't met for 54-plus days, they may go another 54-plus days without having a meeting, and the situation has never been more bleak than it is. Bob Goodenow said today that there's not going to be an offer that comes out of this meeting, but I believe that the NHLPA at some point -- whether it's a week, a month or a couple of months -- will make an offer and the offer will be designed to have a stiff luxury tax, much different than what they've proposed so far.
They'll throw it up there to Gary Bettman and the owners and say, 'There you go. Now we're interested in real change.' It could be, if nothing else, a public relations gambit to get some fans back on the side of the players because to this point in time the fans have been dead against them.
Cheers,
Aquaman
NHLPA to meet with agents in two weeks
Canadian Press
11/3/2004
The NHL lockout has taken on an air of endlessness following Tuesday's hard-line show of unity from the players, leading many to believe the season is definitely lost.
The league added to the funereal-like atmosphere Wednesday by cancelling the Feb. 12-13 NHL all-star weekend in Atlanta.
So now what?
It's believed the NHL Players' Association has decided to hold another meeting in December, this time with more than 200 players, inviting more of the rank and file to Toronto to discuss the game plan.
While the gathering will serve as a mass update, no doubt the union hopes it will lead to more stories of solidarity like the meeting Tuesday elicited.
Not much else is in the works.
The NHLPA says the league doesn't want the union back to the negotiating table until it wants to talk salary cap. The NHLPA repeated its mantra Tuesday that a cap is non-negotiable.
Maybe the agents will stir the creative juices. NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow has invited about 100 player agents to a meeting Nov. 17 in Chicago.
Expect Goodenow to be updating agents, not so much asking them for advice.
``I think it would be naive to think that out of this meeting we're going to push him one way or the other to do something that he already hasn't been looking at,'' veteran agent Rick Curran said Wednesday from Philadelphia. ``On the other hand, I think that he may find it an interesting exercise for himself to hear from us what our clients feel. Our clients may be more forthcoming with their thoughts through us than necessarily directly to him.
``I'd like to think that he's too smart to ignore some of the feedback that he may get,'' added Curran. ``But in the end, it's his game plan, it's his ball and he's got to carry it.
``As he should, that was the job he was given.''
The meeting is a smart move by Goodenow, who can have the agents share whatever concerns they may have behind closed doors instead of having to read them in the media at some point in the next few months.
Remember agents are negotiators by trade and so no doubt have their own ideas on how this thing could be solved. But so far all the big hitters have kept their grumblings, if any, under wraps.
Meanwhile, the cancellation of the all-star game should have come as no surprise. Even if there is a season this year, the league will need all the dates possible to squeeze in a shortened schedule. The four-day all-star break is a no-brainer to wipe out. They did the same during the last lockout in 1994-95.
Nine-time all-star Jeremy Roenick didn't feel the same, however.
``To call off something that's a lot of fun for the fans to enjoy is a shame,'' Roenick told The Associated Press. ``It has no bearing on anything. They still haven't cancelled games in January. Why haven't they cancelled games in January but they're cancelling the all-star game?''
Added NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin: ``This is another unfortunate casualty of the owners' decision to lock out the players and shut down the game.''
While the lockout has affected those who make a living from the NHL, it seems like most hockey fans are just getting on with life - despite the protests of NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.
``What we hear from our fans, all the time, at our level and at the club level, is that our fans do miss it,'' Bettman told The Canadian Press in an interview this week. ``But they are extremely supportive of what needs to be done to correct the problems that we're having.''
The players are doing their best to survive. Over 240 of them are playing in European pro leagues and plans are in place by player agency IMG to stage a charity tour of NHL stars next month. The World Stars tour will feature games in Russia, Sweden, Switzlerland, Norway, Latvia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic from Dec. 5 to 22, the likes of Martin Brodeur, Mats Sundin, Luc Robitaille, Sergei Fedorov, Rob Blake, Shane Doan, Joe Thornton, Rick Nash and Dany Heatley taking on top club teams or all-star squads from different leagues.
In the meantime, financial relief is on the way for NHL players. Vancouver Canucks centre Trevor Linden, the president of the players' executive committee for the NHLPA, confirmed Tuesday that the union will provide lockout pay to all of its players in the near future.
As of now, players have been receiving nothing from the union unless it was an emergency. The union will not say whether or not that's occurred.
The players have so far gone without two of the 13 paycheques that are usually handed out during a full regular season. The next scheduled pay day from NHL clubs would have been Nov. 15 but that, too, will go by the wayside while the labour dispute lasts.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
11/3/2004
The NHL lockout has taken on an air of endlessness following Tuesday's hard-line show of unity from the players, leading many to believe the season is definitely lost.
The league added to the funereal-like atmosphere Wednesday by cancelling the Feb. 12-13 NHL all-star weekend in Atlanta.
So now what?
It's believed the NHL Players' Association has decided to hold another meeting in December, this time with more than 200 players, inviting more of the rank and file to Toronto to discuss the game plan.
While the gathering will serve as a mass update, no doubt the union hopes it will lead to more stories of solidarity like the meeting Tuesday elicited.
Not much else is in the works.
The NHLPA says the league doesn't want the union back to the negotiating table until it wants to talk salary cap. The NHLPA repeated its mantra Tuesday that a cap is non-negotiable.
Maybe the agents will stir the creative juices. NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow has invited about 100 player agents to a meeting Nov. 17 in Chicago.
Expect Goodenow to be updating agents, not so much asking them for advice.
``I think it would be naive to think that out of this meeting we're going to push him one way or the other to do something that he already hasn't been looking at,'' veteran agent Rick Curran said Wednesday from Philadelphia. ``On the other hand, I think that he may find it an interesting exercise for himself to hear from us what our clients feel. Our clients may be more forthcoming with their thoughts through us than necessarily directly to him.
``I'd like to think that he's too smart to ignore some of the feedback that he may get,'' added Curran. ``But in the end, it's his game plan, it's his ball and he's got to carry it.
``As he should, that was the job he was given.''
The meeting is a smart move by Goodenow, who can have the agents share whatever concerns they may have behind closed doors instead of having to read them in the media at some point in the next few months.
Remember agents are negotiators by trade and so no doubt have their own ideas on how this thing could be solved. But so far all the big hitters have kept their grumblings, if any, under wraps.
Meanwhile, the cancellation of the all-star game should have come as no surprise. Even if there is a season this year, the league will need all the dates possible to squeeze in a shortened schedule. The four-day all-star break is a no-brainer to wipe out. They did the same during the last lockout in 1994-95.
Nine-time all-star Jeremy Roenick didn't feel the same, however.
``To call off something that's a lot of fun for the fans to enjoy is a shame,'' Roenick told The Associated Press. ``It has no bearing on anything. They still haven't cancelled games in January. Why haven't they cancelled games in January but they're cancelling the all-star game?''
Added NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin: ``This is another unfortunate casualty of the owners' decision to lock out the players and shut down the game.''
While the lockout has affected those who make a living from the NHL, it seems like most hockey fans are just getting on with life - despite the protests of NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.
``What we hear from our fans, all the time, at our level and at the club level, is that our fans do miss it,'' Bettman told The Canadian Press in an interview this week. ``But they are extremely supportive of what needs to be done to correct the problems that we're having.''
The players are doing their best to survive. Over 240 of them are playing in European pro leagues and plans are in place by player agency IMG to stage a charity tour of NHL stars next month. The World Stars tour will feature games in Russia, Sweden, Switzlerland, Norway, Latvia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic from Dec. 5 to 22, the likes of Martin Brodeur, Mats Sundin, Luc Robitaille, Sergei Fedorov, Rob Blake, Shane Doan, Joe Thornton, Rick Nash and Dany Heatley taking on top club teams or all-star squads from different leagues.
In the meantime, financial relief is on the way for NHL players. Vancouver Canucks centre Trevor Linden, the president of the players' executive committee for the NHLPA, confirmed Tuesday that the union will provide lockout pay to all of its players in the near future.
As of now, players have been receiving nothing from the union unless it was an emergency. The union will not say whether or not that's occurred.
The players have so far gone without two of the 13 paycheques that are usually handed out during a full regular season. The next scheduled pay day from NHL clubs would have been Nov. 15 but that, too, will go by the wayside while the labour dispute lasts.
Cheers,
Aquaman
Stars fans face off against Daly, NHL
The Canadian Press
11/4/2004
DALLAS (AP) - Stars fans finally had a reason to go to the arena. Only it wasn't for the scheduled game against the Chicago Blackhawks.
Instead, about 500 people - several wearing green and gold jerseys and other Stars gear - spent about 90 minutes Wednesday night grilling the NHL's top negotiator, Bill Daly, and team president Jim Lites about the lockout that has shut down the league, wiped out the all-star game and is threatening to cancel the season.
Their stance was simple: Forget specifics, just get a deal.
The first big cheers came when a woman said, "Both sides declined an arbitrator and I think that's a foolish thing," prompting someone a few sections over to wave a sign that read, "Mediate Damnit."
Later, another fan suggested that "Gordie Howe or Billy Graham" be brought in to settle things.
"You are robbing our children of something they really love and respect. There's your urgency," said Dallas fan Ernie Horn, who works with Stars players and team officials on a program called "Score a Goal in the Classroom."
The sides last met Sept. 9, one week before the lockout officially began. They have no plans for their next get-together.
With the season's first 22 days already gone, and the all-star game shelved earlier Wednesday, it was no surprise that the first question was about when the league would pull the plug on this season.
"We have intentionally not set deadlines and we don't intend to," Daly said.
It also wasn't surprising that the second question was about whether the NHL might employ replacement players. (Not even an option, Daly said.) The surprise was that the question came from a seven-year-old boy.
If the ice had been down, Daly would've been standing on top of the goal the Stars shoot at twice. Fittingly, he faced more than his share of slap shots.
He deflected most pointed challenges by saying, "That's a very fair question." The most heated attack came from a fan who suggested Daly and commissioner Gary Bettman were the problem.
"You haven't really convinced me that you are with the good guys," the fan said. "Your message has been kind of somber and a little bit morose."
Daly's defence was that the NHL has worked hard to develop a working relationship with the NHLPA. He also noted the growth of players' salaries under Bettman.
Another heated topic was that the owners are to blame for creating this problem, both by agreeing to the last contract and by spending wildly under it.
"Nobody is running away from the responsibility that the last (labour deal) didn't work," Daly said. "But we don't have to live with it any more. We get to make a new one."
Lites later added, "We're in the ditch. Now how do we get out of it?"
Daly was very clear that this is the league's only chance and they'll take as long as necessary to get it right.
"We can't do a deal just to do a deal and save the season," he said. "We have no margin for error. All our focus is on doing the right deal."
Daly noted that the players have missed only one full paycheque and a partial one, hinting that the more money the miss, the more they may be willing to cut a deal.
"I believe we will be playing hockey this season," Daly said. "I'll be the most disappointed person in this building if we're not."
While Daly didn't seem concerned about losing fans, Lites was. However, he said that without a change, fans would be driven away by already high ticket prices going up further.
"You're going to be gone anyway if we continue to pay 15, 20, 25 per cent increases," he said.
This was Daly's third trip to an NHL market to spread the league's view, but his first before an open forum. Lites did a similar town-hall meeting in August and various team officials have spoken to smaller groups.
In hoping to keep the fan base built during their 11 seasons in Dallas, the Stars called every season-ticket account holder to invite them to this event. E-mails were sent to their entire distribution list and the word was spread for more than a week in local media.
Cheers,
Aquaman
The Canadian Press
11/4/2004
DALLAS (AP) - Stars fans finally had a reason to go to the arena. Only it wasn't for the scheduled game against the Chicago Blackhawks.
Instead, about 500 people - several wearing green and gold jerseys and other Stars gear - spent about 90 minutes Wednesday night grilling the NHL's top negotiator, Bill Daly, and team president Jim Lites about the lockout that has shut down the league, wiped out the all-star game and is threatening to cancel the season.
Their stance was simple: Forget specifics, just get a deal.
The first big cheers came when a woman said, "Both sides declined an arbitrator and I think that's a foolish thing," prompting someone a few sections over to wave a sign that read, "Mediate Damnit."
Later, another fan suggested that "Gordie Howe or Billy Graham" be brought in to settle things.
"You are robbing our children of something they really love and respect. There's your urgency," said Dallas fan Ernie Horn, who works with Stars players and team officials on a program called "Score a Goal in the Classroom."
The sides last met Sept. 9, one week before the lockout officially began. They have no plans for their next get-together.
With the season's first 22 days already gone, and the all-star game shelved earlier Wednesday, it was no surprise that the first question was about when the league would pull the plug on this season.
"We have intentionally not set deadlines and we don't intend to," Daly said.
It also wasn't surprising that the second question was about whether the NHL might employ replacement players. (Not even an option, Daly said.) The surprise was that the question came from a seven-year-old boy.
If the ice had been down, Daly would've been standing on top of the goal the Stars shoot at twice. Fittingly, he faced more than his share of slap shots.
He deflected most pointed challenges by saying, "That's a very fair question." The most heated attack came from a fan who suggested Daly and commissioner Gary Bettman were the problem.
"You haven't really convinced me that you are with the good guys," the fan said. "Your message has been kind of somber and a little bit morose."
Daly's defence was that the NHL has worked hard to develop a working relationship with the NHLPA. He also noted the growth of players' salaries under Bettman.
Another heated topic was that the owners are to blame for creating this problem, both by agreeing to the last contract and by spending wildly under it.
"Nobody is running away from the responsibility that the last (labour deal) didn't work," Daly said. "But we don't have to live with it any more. We get to make a new one."
Lites later added, "We're in the ditch. Now how do we get out of it?"
Daly was very clear that this is the league's only chance and they'll take as long as necessary to get it right.
"We can't do a deal just to do a deal and save the season," he said. "We have no margin for error. All our focus is on doing the right deal."
Daly noted that the players have missed only one full paycheque and a partial one, hinting that the more money the miss, the more they may be willing to cut a deal.
"I believe we will be playing hockey this season," Daly said. "I'll be the most disappointed person in this building if we're not."
While Daly didn't seem concerned about losing fans, Lites was. However, he said that without a change, fans would be driven away by already high ticket prices going up further.
"You're going to be gone anyway if we continue to pay 15, 20, 25 per cent increases," he said.
This was Daly's third trip to an NHL market to spread the league's view, but his first before an open forum. Lites did a similar town-hall meeting in August and various team officials have spoken to smaller groups.
In hoping to keep the fan base built during their 11 seasons in Dallas, the Stars called every season-ticket account holder to invite them to this event. E-mails were sent to their entire distribution list and the word was spread for more than a week in local media.
Cheers,
Aquaman
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
- 1,049
- 126
Naslund, Burke fear for future of NHL
Canadian Press
11/4/2004
VANCOUVER (CP) - Vancouver Canuck captain Markus Naslund says he is concerned for the future of the NHL if the current labour dispute continues between the owners and players.
``I think it's a dangerous game that is being played right now,'' Naslund said Thursday while attending a sports celebrity charity fund-raising event.
``For the interest of the game and the fan support it is dangerous right now.''
The NHL locked out the players Sept. 15 in a dispute that centres on the owners desire for a salary cap. The players are adamant they won't accept any form of salary cap and the two sides haven't talked since Sept. 9.
Naslund is afraid the longer the lockout lasts, the more the game will suffer in the United States.
``I'm not too worried about the Canadian markets . . . but in the U.S., definitely,'' he said.
Brian Burke, the Canucks former general manager, went a step further. He fears a prolonged dispute will result in some U.S. teams folding.
``I'm terrified what it might do to the game,'' said Burke, who now works as a TSN hockey analyst.
``When ever you have a work stoppage there is some erosion of your fan base. The longer it goes, the more you have.
``Will the Canadian markets rebound? I believe they will. Are all the U.S. markets going to make it through something like this if it goes on much longer? I don't think so. Beside the risk of losing franchises, the damage that is done, even to the ones that survive, it's a big cost.''
Canucks forward Trever Linden, president of the NHLPA, also attended the function but declined to speak to the media.
Neither Naslund or Burke sounded optimistic the NHL would play this season.
Naslund, who is spending part of the year in Vancouver for tax reasons, said he is considering returning to his native Sweden after Christmas to play for his old team Modo.
``I haven't decided definitely, but I'd like to play this year,'' he said.
``Hopefully it will be here. If not I'm probably going to take a hard look at Sweden and playing there.''
Burke has been the eternal optimism that a deal could be reached to save the season. But his hope is falling like fall leafs.
``I'm doubtful about it for the first time,'' he admitted.
``I think there's a very real risk we're not going to play.''
To save the season the players and owners must be talking in December, said Burke.
``In terms of playing a meaningful season, were I at the (owner's) table, I would say anything less than half a season is not meaningful,'' he said.
``You have to play 40 games. If they're not in serious talks by Dec. 20, in my opinion, and if we're not in training camp by Jan. 15, there's not going to be a season.''
If the season is wiped out there is speculation Naslund might not return to Vancouver. He has one year left on a contract that pays him $5.47 million US. He turned 31 in July and would be an unrestricted free agent.
``It's tough to plan anything right now,'' Naslund said.
``I'm constantly thinking about what is going on but I have no definitely plans now.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
Canadian Press
11/4/2004
VANCOUVER (CP) - Vancouver Canuck captain Markus Naslund says he is concerned for the future of the NHL if the current labour dispute continues between the owners and players.
``I think it's a dangerous game that is being played right now,'' Naslund said Thursday while attending a sports celebrity charity fund-raising event.
``For the interest of the game and the fan support it is dangerous right now.''
The NHL locked out the players Sept. 15 in a dispute that centres on the owners desire for a salary cap. The players are adamant they won't accept any form of salary cap and the two sides haven't talked since Sept. 9.
Naslund is afraid the longer the lockout lasts, the more the game will suffer in the United States.
``I'm not too worried about the Canadian markets . . . but in the U.S., definitely,'' he said.
Brian Burke, the Canucks former general manager, went a step further. He fears a prolonged dispute will result in some U.S. teams folding.
``I'm terrified what it might do to the game,'' said Burke, who now works as a TSN hockey analyst.
``When ever you have a work stoppage there is some erosion of your fan base. The longer it goes, the more you have.
``Will the Canadian markets rebound? I believe they will. Are all the U.S. markets going to make it through something like this if it goes on much longer? I don't think so. Beside the risk of losing franchises, the damage that is done, even to the ones that survive, it's a big cost.''
Canucks forward Trever Linden, president of the NHLPA, also attended the function but declined to speak to the media.
Neither Naslund or Burke sounded optimistic the NHL would play this season.
Naslund, who is spending part of the year in Vancouver for tax reasons, said he is considering returning to his native Sweden after Christmas to play for his old team Modo.
``I haven't decided definitely, but I'd like to play this year,'' he said.
``Hopefully it will be here. If not I'm probably going to take a hard look at Sweden and playing there.''
Burke has been the eternal optimism that a deal could be reached to save the season. But his hope is falling like fall leafs.
``I'm doubtful about it for the first time,'' he admitted.
``I think there's a very real risk we're not going to play.''
To save the season the players and owners must be talking in December, said Burke.
``In terms of playing a meaningful season, were I at the (owner's) table, I would say anything less than half a season is not meaningful,'' he said.
``You have to play 40 games. If they're not in serious talks by Dec. 20, in my opinion, and if we're not in training camp by Jan. 15, there's not going to be a season.''
If the season is wiped out there is speculation Naslund might not return to Vancouver. He has one year left on a contract that pays him $5.47 million US. He turned 31 in July and would be an unrestricted free agent.
``It's tough to plan anything right now,'' Naslund said.
``I'm constantly thinking about what is going on but I have no definitely plans now.''
Cheers,
Aquaman
All hockey fans, let your voice be heard!
Send a message
A petition put together by a bunch of the sports radio stations in Canada, to be sent to the NHL and the NHLPA.
I think you can win a chance to actually give it in person to Betteman.
Send a message
A petition put together by a bunch of the sports radio stations in Canada, to be sent to the NHL and the NHLPA.
I think you can win a chance to actually give it in person to Betteman.
Report: NHLPA scoring system revealed
TSN.ca Staff with Star-Tribune Files
11/8/2004
Hockey fans love keeping statistics during the NHL season, but it appears that the NHL Players' Association likes keeping numbers of a different sort.
The Minnesota Star-Tribune has uncovered a computer system called NHLPA SCORE, a program designed for player agents to streamline data, exploit its legal rights and outduel the league and its team in salary negotiations.
The Tribune, with help from an anonymous player agent, was given a detailed tour of the program.
The main feature of the SCORE system is an E-File. According to the Star-Tribune, any agent can click on the E-File go to a home page for each of the players he represents. The home page features nine options, which include Player Profile, Marketplace Cluster and Searches.
Player Profile is a form that each agent must fill out for each of his clients during the season. The paper says the agent must explain his client's free agent status, the player's potential arguments in upcoming contract negotiations, his team's potential arguments; an analysis of his previous contract; his stats; an analysis of his place in the marketplace; and a recommendation of how much the player should make.
The NHLPA would then use this information to group players in a pool known as the Marketplace Cluster. Any qualifying offers made to players by general managers are posted here, as well as any additional club offers. That way, each agent would know where the market stands as he negotiates for his client.
The Searches aspect of the program lets an agent compare his client's statistics to those of comparable players and their salaries.
When a deal is completed for a player between the agent and the team, it becomes available on the SCORE system for any other agent to read.
The paper also added that the program allows the NHLPA to watch its agents. The program allots two full hours of viewing time for an agent, and the agent must ask for more time from the Players' Association when it runs out.
NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly told the paper that the league has used the same sort technology for a decade, but general managers are under no obligation to share information.
"It's an information-sharing network on restricted free agents," Daly told the Star Tribune. "We give tools and ultimately the clubs all act independently." Daly added that the NHL does not "group players on the contract tracking database....posting similar players, we don't do that."
The union is "faster than us," said Minnesota Will assistant GM Tom Lynn. "They're better at it. Teams are competing. They're less likely to share offers."
Daly also told the paper that the NHLPA groups free agents with arbitration rights into "three buckets: guys they want in salary arbitration, guys who are better to negotiate and guys in a third bucket in terms of withholding (services)," meaning the NHLPA chooses who goes to arbitration, who doesn't and who holds out.
Any hint of teams sharing such information could spark accusations of collusion, but not in the legal sense.
"A league management can exchange information about players," Minneapolis attorney Clark Griffith told the Star-Tribune. "It doesn't rise to the level of a crime until two or more teams agree" to act together to not sign someone or to price set.
Nevertheless, it did not stop the Players' Association from filing a grievance six years ago saying that the NHL could not share data and offers.
"We had one hearing before an arbitrator," Daly explained to the paper. "They couldn't articulate how it violated the CBA. They essentially withdrew the grievance. It went away."
Attempts by the Star-Tribune to interview NHLPA Exceutive Director Bob Goodenow were turned down. Public relations chief Jonathan Weatherdon accused the newspaper of "hacking" into the union's system.
Cheers,
Aquaman
TSN.ca Staff with Star-Tribune Files
11/8/2004
Hockey fans love keeping statistics during the NHL season, but it appears that the NHL Players' Association likes keeping numbers of a different sort.
The Minnesota Star-Tribune has uncovered a computer system called NHLPA SCORE, a program designed for player agents to streamline data, exploit its legal rights and outduel the league and its team in salary negotiations.
The Tribune, with help from an anonymous player agent, was given a detailed tour of the program.
The main feature of the SCORE system is an E-File. According to the Star-Tribune, any agent can click on the E-File go to a home page for each of the players he represents. The home page features nine options, which include Player Profile, Marketplace Cluster and Searches.
Player Profile is a form that each agent must fill out for each of his clients during the season. The paper says the agent must explain his client's free agent status, the player's potential arguments in upcoming contract negotiations, his team's potential arguments; an analysis of his previous contract; his stats; an analysis of his place in the marketplace; and a recommendation of how much the player should make.
The NHLPA would then use this information to group players in a pool known as the Marketplace Cluster. Any qualifying offers made to players by general managers are posted here, as well as any additional club offers. That way, each agent would know where the market stands as he negotiates for his client.
The Searches aspect of the program lets an agent compare his client's statistics to those of comparable players and their salaries.
When a deal is completed for a player between the agent and the team, it becomes available on the SCORE system for any other agent to read.
The paper also added that the program allows the NHLPA to watch its agents. The program allots two full hours of viewing time for an agent, and the agent must ask for more time from the Players' Association when it runs out.
NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly told the paper that the league has used the same sort technology for a decade, but general managers are under no obligation to share information.
"It's an information-sharing network on restricted free agents," Daly told the Star Tribune. "We give tools and ultimately the clubs all act independently." Daly added that the NHL does not "group players on the contract tracking database....posting similar players, we don't do that."
The union is "faster than us," said Minnesota Will assistant GM Tom Lynn. "They're better at it. Teams are competing. They're less likely to share offers."
Daly also told the paper that the NHLPA groups free agents with arbitration rights into "three buckets: guys they want in salary arbitration, guys who are better to negotiate and guys in a third bucket in terms of withholding (services)," meaning the NHLPA chooses who goes to arbitration, who doesn't and who holds out.
Any hint of teams sharing such information could spark accusations of collusion, but not in the legal sense.
"A league management can exchange information about players," Minneapolis attorney Clark Griffith told the Star-Tribune. "It doesn't rise to the level of a crime until two or more teams agree" to act together to not sign someone or to price set.
Nevertheless, it did not stop the Players' Association from filing a grievance six years ago saying that the NHL could not share data and offers.
"We had one hearing before an arbitrator," Daly explained to the paper. "They couldn't articulate how it violated the CBA. They essentially withdrew the grievance. It went away."
Attempts by the Star-Tribune to interview NHLPA Exceutive Director Bob Goodenow were turned down. Public relations chief Jonathan Weatherdon accused the newspaper of "hacking" into the union's system.
Cheers,
Aquaman
JohnAn2112
Diamond Member
- May 8, 2003
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Danton sentenced to 7½ years in prison
EAST ST. LOUIS, Ill. (AP) -- Former St. Louis Blues player Mike Danton was sentenced Monday to 7 1/2 years in prison for trying to have his agent killed.
Danton, 24, said nothing as U.S. District Judge William Stiehl imposed the sentence.
``I do not believe in over 18 years on the bench I have been faced with a case as bizarre as this one,'' Stiehl said, noting that Danton chose a 19-year-old acquaintance and a police dispatcher as his would-be helpers in the murder plot.
The judge said the story Danton ``concocted was not well thought out or very believable.'' He said, ``The exact reasons you felt you needed to engage in a murder plot remain a mystery to me.''
Danton is expected to ask to be moved to a prison in his native Canada. As for his hockey career, there is no parole in the federal system and, the judge noted, Danton might not be allowed to return to the United States after completing his sentence.
His contract with the Blues expired after the 2003-04 season.
At the sentencing, Danton's attorney, Robert Haar, apologized on behalf of Danton ``for the pain and disappointment he has caused'' his friends, teammates and fans.
``His aspiration now is to return to Canada and put his life back together again,'' Haar said.
Danton pleaded guilty in July to murder conspiracy charges. Prosecutors said he tried to hire a hit man to kill David Frost, his agent and Canadian youth hockey coach. A phone call to Frost was not immediately returned.
Authorities said Danton and Frost had argued over Danton's alleged promiscuity and alcohol use, and Danton feared Frost would tell the Blues' front office about his behavior.
In September, a jury acquitted Katie Wolfmeyer, 19, of Florissant, Mo., of charges she took part in the plot. Wolfmeyer claimed she did not know Danton was trying to hire a hit man when she introduced him over the phone to an acquaintance, Justin Levi Jones. Prosecutors said Danton offered Jones $10,000 to kill Frost.
The plot unraveled when Jones, a police dispatcher, went to authorities with cell phone recordings of some of his conversations with Danton.
EAST ST. LOUIS, Ill. (AP) -- Former St. Louis Blues player Mike Danton was sentenced Monday to 7 1/2 years in prison for trying to have his agent killed.
Danton, 24, said nothing as U.S. District Judge William Stiehl imposed the sentence.
``I do not believe in over 18 years on the bench I have been faced with a case as bizarre as this one,'' Stiehl said, noting that Danton chose a 19-year-old acquaintance and a police dispatcher as his would-be helpers in the murder plot.
The judge said the story Danton ``concocted was not well thought out or very believable.'' He said, ``The exact reasons you felt you needed to engage in a murder plot remain a mystery to me.''
Danton is expected to ask to be moved to a prison in his native Canada. As for his hockey career, there is no parole in the federal system and, the judge noted, Danton might not be allowed to return to the United States after completing his sentence.
His contract with the Blues expired after the 2003-04 season.
At the sentencing, Danton's attorney, Robert Haar, apologized on behalf of Danton ``for the pain and disappointment he has caused'' his friends, teammates and fans.
``His aspiration now is to return to Canada and put his life back together again,'' Haar said.
Danton pleaded guilty in July to murder conspiracy charges. Prosecutors said he tried to hire a hit man to kill David Frost, his agent and Canadian youth hockey coach. A phone call to Frost was not immediately returned.
Authorities said Danton and Frost had argued over Danton's alleged promiscuity and alcohol use, and Danton feared Frost would tell the Blues' front office about his behavior.
In September, a jury acquitted Katie Wolfmeyer, 19, of Florissant, Mo., of charges she took part in the plot. Wolfmeyer claimed she did not know Danton was trying to hire a hit man when she introduced him over the phone to an acquaintance, Justin Levi Jones. Prosecutors said Danton offered Jones $10,000 to kill Frost.
The plot unraveled when Jones, a police dispatcher, went to authorities with cell phone recordings of some of his conversations with Danton.
Yeah. Both of them were real upset :roll:
I'm from St. Louis. Man, the drama surrounding this whole charade was nothing I could have ever imagined. Definitely stranger than fiction.
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