***Official NCAA Basketball Tournament thread***

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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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From what I understand, it's already been settled. 3-game suspension for Calhoun next season and 3 years of probation for the program.

I thought I read that an additional investigation was occurring, but perhaps that was just someone speculating.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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Kind of a fluke year for basketball, or maybe a taste of things to come? With the NBA draining most of the talent from the NCAA, maybe there will be no more truly great teams. I still think there will be david's and goliath's though. Neither Uconn or Butler were great teams though, and they both made it to the final.

I agree and I think you're going to see more good coaches stay put, at least until they truly have their pick of the next job. In Brad Stevens' case, the openings he could've had were places like Oregon, Clemson, Mizzou, NC State, etc. Who the heck would want any of those? I've said it numerous times, and I will say it again -- I think Stevens won't leave Butler unless Indiana opens up. There is even a rumor (unsubstantiated) that Stevens' contract allows him to leave Butler with no penalties if the Indiana job opens. Even then, if Stevens continues bringing in good recruits and making deep runs into the tournament, why would he leave? In addition to maybe a few of the five star recruits, the only thing a place like Indiana would buy him would be more room for error during the regular season -- a fifth place finish in the Big Ten will probably get you an at-large bid, but a second-place (or lower) finish in the Horizon League probably means you are playing in the NIT.

The NCAA tournament is always great no matter what. I don't know why they don't do something similar for NCAA football (obviously with less than 68 teams though :p). The BCS has always been flawed. Not to mention it's great that they play the championship game in basketball 2 days after the final game is set where as with NCAA Football, once the title game is set, it's literally over a month until they play the damn game, almost like the start of the next season.

I agree, but there are key differences between basketball and football. The NCAA conducts the men's basketball tournament, whereas it doesn't conduct the bowl games. The BCS is effectively a coalition of power conferences that conduct their own championship. Unknown to most, the NCAA DOES actually conduct a DI football championship (the FCS series), but it obviously doesn't get the publicity that the BCS does.

Pro football is my favorite sport, but college basketball is a close second and I personally think March Madness is the best time of year and best championship series of any sport.
 
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Oct 19, 2000
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I thought I read that an additional investigation was occurring, but perhaps that was just someone speculating.

There may be, I'm not that well versed in the goings-on of the UConn punishments. I think we're both working on hearsay at the moment.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
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I thought I read that an additional investigation was occurring, but perhaps that was just someone speculating.
Calhoun was not directly involved, it was related to a booster paying off a recruit who was later expelled. Calhoun had considered appealing it, but on March 9th decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Initially, Calhoun's attorney said:
"We're still reviewing the finding, having received it only this morning, but it appears the finding is based at least partially on factually incorrect and misleading statements," Tompsett said. "For example, the report repeatedly states that neither Coach Calhoun nor his staff made any effort to ask the prospect about his relationship with the agent or to deter the provision of impermissible benefits. That is false.

"Both Coach Calhoun and members of his staff asked questions and they warned the prospect against accepting benefits from the agent. That is just one example of a false and misleading statement upon which the NCAA based its finding against Coach Calhoun."

I think UConn realized that the punishment (3 game suspension) was adequate for not taking more control of the situation, i.e. telling the booster to back off the recruit.

All in all, this is Calhoun's first infraction and the guy is an old man at 68, it's not surprising that he didn't have control of his program. He will probably retire soon since he just became the oldest coach to win an NCAA title. 3 championships, 7 Big East titles, and 800+ wins is a pretty good career.

Edit: Pretty good editorial on the topic.
http://sports.espn.go.com/blog/Coll...23883/the-cult-of-the-head-coach-slowly-dying

Tells how since 2009, head coaches will now bear the NCAA's wrath for any infractions since they've started cracking down. Ultimately the head coach is responsible for boosters, assistants, and anyone under him and he will bear the penalty, not his peons.
 
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SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
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Wow, UConn tied a title game record with 10 blocks! I didn't know that. Also, Butler only scored 3 two point FG's. Holy sht.

"They're very athletic," Mack said. "They would contest shots that people normally wouldn't be able to contest."

No wonder Butler missed so many points in the paint. You get blocked 10 times, you are hearing the footsteps.
 
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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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Wow, UConn tied a title game record with 10 blocks! I didn't know that. Also, Butler only scored 3 two point FG's. Holy sht.

"They're very athletic," Mack said. "They would contest shots that people normally wouldn't be able to contest."

No wonder Butler missed so many points in the paint. You get blocked 10 times, you are hearing the footsteps.

If Butler just matches UConn's poor shooting (34%), they win handily. UConn's defense was great, but Butler missed tons of wide open shots and at least 3 easy layups that I remember. I think they fell apart and started to panic. And GOOD LORD, Andrew Smith has hands made of bricks. I wanted to kick him!
 

jhbball

Platinum Member
Mar 20, 2002
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What was up with the rim/basket? It sounded like there was no 'give' at all.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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Exactly the way KU played against VCU. Sometimes teams have good nights, sometimes they can't hit the side of a barn.

A single elimination tournament is not really the best way to do this, however, its all we have at this point.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
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If Butler just matches UConn's poor shooting (34%), they win handily. UConn's defense was great, but Butler missed tons of wide open shots and at least 3 easy layups that I remember. I think they fell apart and started to panic. And GOOD LORD, Andrew Smith has hands made of bricks. I wanted to kick him!

Not just bad hands but there were two or three spots where he clearly didn't expect to get the ball despite having good position and didn't react to it.
 

HopJokey

Platinum Member
May 6, 2005
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Exactly the way KU played against VCU. Sometimes teams have good nights, sometimes they can't hit the side of a barn.

A single elimination tournament is not really the best way to do this, however, its all we have at this point.

I think it's fine, each sport has a different way of deciding its champion. I agree it's not the greatest "test" (NBA is probably the greatest test for a postseason). The only one I don't like is the BCS for College Football. Look at the national champs since 2000, I would say all are "worthy" champs. They may not have been the "best" team over the whole season, but they each were in the upper echelon:

2011 - UConn
2010 - Duke
2009 - UNC
2008 - Kansas
2007 - Florida
2006 - Florida
2005 - UNC
2004 - UConn
2003 - Syracuse
2002 - Maryland
2001 - Duke
2000 - Michigan State
 
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HopJokey

Platinum Member
May 6, 2005
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If Butler just matches UConn's poor shooting (34%), they win handily. UConn's defense was great, but Butler missed tons of wide open shots and at least 3 easy layups that I remember. I think they fell apart and started to panic. And GOOD LORD, Andrew Smith has hands made of bricks. I wanted to kick him!

I totally agree, Smith was a huge dud out there. Hands of stone and pretty weak for a near 7 footer.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
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I think it's fine, each sport has a different way of deciding its champion. I agree it's not the greatest "test" (NBA is probably the greatest test for a postseason). The only one I don't like is the BCS for College Football. Look at the national champs since 2000, I would say all are "worthy" champs. They may not have been the "best" team over the whole season, but they each were in the upper echelon:
How is NBA any better than NHL or MLB?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
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I think it's fine, each sport has a different way of deciding its champion. I agree it's not the greatest "test" (NBA is probably the greatest test for a postseason). The only one I don't like is the BCS for College Football. Look at the national champs since 2000, I would say all are "worthy" champs. They may not have been the "best" team over the whole season, but they each were in the upper echelon:

2011 - UConn
2010 - Duke
2009 - UNC
2008 - Kansas
2007 - Florida
2006 - Florida
2005 - UNC
2004 - UConn
2003 - Syracuse
2002 - Maryland
2001 - Duke
2000 - Michigan State

Yep. I totally agree that single elimination is the way to do it. Otherwise, Duke would be national champions for about 15 years running. it would be obnoxious. They certainly aren't always the best team year-in, year-out, but they are always one of the best.

I can't imagine any team being able to beat [coach K's Duke team] in a 3 or 5 game series in any of these years. They've lost no more than what--5 games in a season over that time? There have been awesome teams that could easily beat Duke those years: Pitino's Kentucky, Calipari's UMass, some of the UNC squads, Michigan State and of course Uconn, but 3 or more games? no way, Jose. I *think* UNC is the only team to have swept them in a season over that time...and possibly just one season out of that.

I think there are programs that would have easily put together a 3 or 4 season-run with that format as well, but history shows that Duke simply has not slowed down, or been uncompetitive during that time, far more than any other program. The only bad year that I recall was when Krwesiykoiuski sat out for a season to recuperate his back. They went from #1 team the previous season, to ACC basement dwellers with my Wolfpack. It was hilarious. :D
Then, #1 again when coach K returned.

Also, that was one of the worst Championship games I have seen. Gah, it was brutal and boring. It certainly doesn't help that I also hate UConn. :D
 
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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
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Yep. I totally agree that single elimination is the way to do it. Otherwise, Duke would be national champions for about 15 years running. it would be obnoxious. They certainly aren't always the best team year-in, year-out, but they are always one of the best.

I can't imagine any team being able to beat [coach K's Duke team] in a 3 or 5 game series in any of these years. They've lost no more than what--5 games in a season over that time? There have been awesome teams that could easily beat Duke those years: Pitino's Kentucky, Calipari's UMass, some of the UNC squads, Michigan State and of course Uconn, but 3 or more games? no way, Jose.


Also, that was one of the worst Championship games I have seen. Gah, it was brutal and boring. It certinaly doesn't help that I also hate UConn. :D

You nailed it on the head. Single elimination is the only way to do it. Exactly for the reason(s) you pointed out.

And don't go hating on UCONN. They netted me $150 last night!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,125
30,076
146
You nailed it on the head. Single elimination is the only way to do it. Exactly for the reason(s) you pointed out.

And don't go hating on UCONN. They netted me $150 last night!

UNC netted me ~$65 back in '05, and that never changed the fact that I still hate them with the fury of 10,000 suns.


Of course, it was a lock going into that tournament.

:D
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
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Yep. I totally agree that single elimination is the way to do it. Otherwise, Duke would be national champions for about 15 years running. it would be obnoxious. They certainly aren't always the best team year-in, year-out, but they are always one of the best.

I can't imagine any team being able to beat [coach K's Duke team] in a 3 or 5 game series in any of these years. They've lost no more than what--5 games in a season over that time? There have been awesome teams that could easily beat Duke those years: Pitino's Kentucky, Calipari's UMass, some of the UNC squads, Michigan State and of course Uconn, but 3 or more games? no way, Jose. I *think* UNC is the only team to have swept them in a season over that time...and possibly just one season out of that.

I think there are programs that would have easily put together a 3 or 4 season-run with that format as well, but history shows that Duke simply has not slowed down, or been uncompetitive during that time, far more than any other program. The only bad year that I recall was when Krwesiykoiuski sat out for a season to recuperate his back. They went from #1 team the previous season, to ACC basement dwellers with my Wolfpack. It was hilarious. :D
Then, #1 again when coach K returned.

Also, that was one of the worst Championship games I have seen. Gah, it was brutal and boring. It certainly doesn't help that I also hate UConn. :D

Best of 5 would really come down to conditioning and not so much skill. You play that many games and fatigue plays a huge role. Butler and especially UConn were already fatigued and it showed. Making them play another 5/7 game series just for the championship would be stupid, especially considering conference tourneys are right before the NCAA tourney. If there was a lot of rest in between each game then maybe it'd work. But the tourney is already running into April as is.

Playing against different teams in elimination is arguably tougher than a 5 game series because the team only gets to adjust to an entirely different strategy once per team (at halftime). Don't adjust, you go home. In a 5 game series, there is no sense of urgency and there is more time to adjust. The beauty of the tourney is that a team can totally throw another off guard with something unexpected to advance. For example, when UConn kept pick and rolling with Kemba vs San Diego State and kept draining shots. By the time they adjusted, he had already scored 12 straight pts. Or when Kentucky switched from man to man to zone late in the game, it definitely slowed UConn down because they hadn't seen it before. This allows for more strategy and teams to surprise opponents (think VCU's "Burn" strategy).
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
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Without a doubt the ugliest championship game I've seen. Butler turned from Bulldogs into Bricklayers. Even the '91 Blue Devils played better, and they lost to UNLV by 30.
If UConn had played so poorly in any of their previous five games, they would have been watching this one.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
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I know. Its pretty sad that there were 50 more points scored in the Women's Championship game.

They were theorizing that a large reason (aside from great defense) for the men scoring so little was because of the stadium and how it messes with line of sight. 70,000 people is a helluva lot more people than 17,000 like the women's game last night (and most of the men's).
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
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Connecticut received 30 of 31 first-place votes in the final ESPN/USA Today coaches' poll, released a day after the Huskies defeated Butler to win their third NCAA championship under coach Jim Calhoun.

Ohio State, which was knocked out by eventual regional champion Kentucky in the Sweet 16, received the lone remaining first-place vote.

The 31 Division I coaches voting in the poll are not obligated to vote for the NCAA tournament champion as No. 1 on the final ballot of the season. In a USA Today online report Tuesday, Northern Arizona coach Mike Adras told the newspaper he gave his No. 1 vote to the Buckeyes.

Adras said he also put Kansas No. 2 before voting for UConn third on his ballot.


"I voted for who I thought was the best team in the country based on the entire body of work during the season," Adras told USA Today. "I believe it is Ohio State.

How does one get granted a vote in the USA Today poll? I'd love to know what kind of crack Adras was smoking to still think that Ohio State deserved #1. He says, based on a team's "entire body of work during a season".

UConn won the Maui Invitational tourney by beating Wichita State (won NIT), Michigan State (tourney team) and then UK (tourney team). They won all big games out of conference: @Texas (tourney team) and Tennessee (tourney team). All 9 of their losses were from the Big East, all to tourney teams. Their only unranked loss at the time of the game was to Marquette (sweet 16 team).

Ohio State did have quality OOC wins @Florida, @Florida State. They only lost twice, so yes they get the edge for regular season schedule.

However, UConn won its conference tourney and OSU didn't. UConn then won on the road @SDSU and @Arizona. Then it beat UK who beat OSU shortly before that.

How can they not be #1? Esp with two freshman stars!
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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687
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They were theorizing that a large reason (aside from great defense) for the men scoring so little was because of the stadium and how it messes with line of sight. 70,000 people is a helluva lot more people than 17,000 like the women's game last night (and most of the men's).

The Final Four was in Lucas Oil stadium last year with 72,000 people and shooting was not that bad.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
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I'd take a shitty mens game over an awesome women's game any day of the week.
No problem. You watch all the shitty men's games you want, I'll continue watching great women's games, and we can both be happy.

I do reserve the right to watch the great men's games, too...