Official "Marijuana is legal in CA" Countdown Thread ***UPDATE: California Sucks***

[BudAshes]

And yes SP33Demon, driving under the influence of marijuana is just as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol or any other intoxicating substance. MAYBE pot smokers tend to drive a bit slower...but they're dammed sure not any safer.

WRONG

1000% wrong

I would say go try it yourself but that's illegal. Give a drunk person and a stoned person a driving course to make it through and you would see how much worse driving drunk is. Seriously, how could you not know this?

Issue with pot is that if you get high and then drink a beer it will amplify the drunk effect and soften the paranoia that gives you the edge when you are high. All the best drivers I know get high regularly when they drive, it relaxes you and completely eliminates road rage and the need to speed unnecessarily. I would even argue that we should encourage people to get high if they are sitting in traffic getting pissed off. Certainly I'd rather have someone be driving high listening to music than be driving while on their cell phone stone sober.

 

[bfdd]

According to current poll results... its looking mixed... but might be defeated..

Read my post above. There's been a lot of people who would have supported legalization a few years ago coming out against it because they want to make more money. I'm voting in favor of and I try to talk people in voting in favor of because prohibition is fucking retarded.

 

[coreyb]

WRONG

1000% wrong

I would say go try it yourself but that's illegal. Give a drunk person and a stoned person a driving course to make it through and you would see how much worse driving drunk is. Seriously, how could you not know this?

Issue with pot is that if you get high and then drink a beer it will amplify the drunk effect and soften the paranoia that gives you the edge when you are high. All the best drivers I know get high regularly when they drive, it relaxes you and completely eliminates road rage and the need to speed unnecessarily. I would even argue that we should encourage people to get high if they are sitting in traffic getting pissed off. Certainly I'd rather have someone be driving high listening to music than be driving while on their cell phone stone sober.

totally agree. this guy obviously has little or no experience with pot. people who smoke pot regularly do almost everything high and there is little or no difference.

i used to play counter-strike at a competitive level, and I was always high. you won't find a drunk person that is able to think and react at that level.

 

[guyver01]

i used to play counter-strike at a competitive level, and I was always high.

don't turn this into a /brag thread :sneaky:

 

[coreyb]

lol, I'm not. Believe me I don't tell anybody that in real life. It was just to make a point that there's a huge difference between potheads and drinkers that's all.

 

[guyver01]

It was just to make a point that there's a huge difference between potheads and drinkers that's all.

hey man... i used to play competetive Street Fighter while wasted. (drunk)

:hmm:

 

[BoomerD]

totally agree. this guy obviously has little or no experience with pot. people who smoke pot regularly do almost everything high and there is little or no difference.

i used to play counter-strike at a competitive level, and I was always high. you won't find a drunk person that is able to think and react at that level.

LOL...and heroin addicts do almost everything high as well...and there's little or no difference for them...once they get their fix, they're "normal."
I know that's also true for folks who live on opioid pain killers. They function relatively normally while under the influence once their bodies have "adapted" to the drug. I still don't want to see junkies or pain med addicts behind the wheel...and youse pot smokers are never going to convince me that pot smokers are able to function "normally" while they're "zoned."

 

[coreyb]

LOL...and heroin addicts do almost everything high as well...and there's little or no difference for them...once they get their fix, they're "normal."
I know that's also true for folks who live on opioid pain killers. They function relatively normally while under the influence once their bodies have "adapted" to the drug. I still don't want to see junkies or pain med addicts behind the wheel...and youse pot smokers are never going to convince me that pot smokers are able to function "normally" while they're "zoned."

if there is little or no difference then what's the problem? can't you see there's difference between alcohol and other drugs? my uncle is a chronic pain pill user and shoots 67 in golf constantly. could someone do that drunk? think not.

you're not making any points here.

 

[KingGheedora]

Because if its taxed to death nothing will change. The black market will still thrive. Killing the income of drug dealers would be the only reason I would vote for something like this.

Why would the black market for weed continue if it were legalized? Only among minors since they wouldn't be able to get it legally.

Also, you would vote for this to kill the income of drug dealers why? If it becomes legal it's the same drug. Most dealers I've, um, heard about, only sell pot. So you dislike them simply because they break the law, yet it's a law you don't seem to care about since you would repeal it just to strike at the dealers. This just seems funny to me.

 

[Locut0s]

if there is little or no difference then what's the problem? can't you see there's difference between alcohol and other drugs? my uncle is a chronic pain pill user and shoots 67 in golf constantly. could someone do that drunk? think not.

you're not making any points here.

The point is that many of these people either went through long periods where they were NOT AT ALL sober and able to act normally or they have spent a long time ramping up their doses to the point they are at now. Either way they are only able to act normal while "high" after years of their body building up tolerance to the drug. I'm 200% for legalizing pot but I don't agree with driving while stoned. Remember the people you are talking about have built up such a tolerance that they really aren't stoned or high anymore.

 

[zinfamous]

If we are going to make up 13 trillion or whatever the # is in debt we have now.. joints would have to cost about $80,000 each.

Lindsey Lohan and her pal Paris will give it the 'ol college try, I'm sure.

😉

 

[zinfamous]

totally agree. this guy obviously has little or no experience with pot. people who smoke pot regularly do almost everything high and there is little or no difference.

i used to play counter-strike at a competitive level, and I was always high. you won't find a drunk person that is able to think and react at that level.

lol. "I video game while high."

ah, come on man. don't make this more difficult for the rest of us...were you sent in here by Heller or something?

😀

 

[zinfamous]

Why would the black market for weed continue if it were legalized? Only among minors since they wouldn't be able to get it legally.

Also, you would vote for this to kill the income of drug dealers why? If it becomes legal it's the same drug. Most dealers I've, um, heard about, only sell pot. So you dislike them simply because they break the law, yet it's a law you don't seem to care about since you would repeal it just to strike at the dealers. This just seems funny to me.

well, the black market can certain continue under several factors:

--taxed way too much to compete with black market
--"legal" bud is lesser quality than what you get underground--and you're still paying too much for it.


now, where would this legal source be coming from? well, established growhouses that already supply the clinics. none of that is bad, certainly.

black market will be from those that grow their own legally, but also want to do so for free....or make a wee bit of profit. Thing is--that is going to be TOUGH. Or, I'd assume it would be if seeing as I don't think there is currently any regulation for such a market.

Every household has been able to brew its own beer, distill its own liquor, ferment its own fermentables with annual limits based on alcohol percentage ever since Carter was in the White House. Does that mean that we, as private brewers or distillers are able to freely distribute our product without proper licensing and classification? no, we can't.

I'm pretty sure that you'll see many forces competing for several years if this happens--much of it still quasi-to-illegal, even under the new law. best bet would be for individual growers to simply supply their friends. Maybe a group of people chip in for a single crop, in a single location, then share it amongst themselves.

...but that cuts the expected massive revenue rate down, doesn't it?

I think the anti-prop 19 crowd has plenty of valid arguments in terms of details and what will really happen here; Boomer makes a lot of good points.

Still, I'm voting Yes.

I can't logically think of a valid reason in our pill-popping, caffeine-addled world to keep this wonder drug illegal. Plus, you get all of the unpublished, and hence un-argued benefits of hemp culturing. you wanna talk about paper production and industrial fiber production? ....man. It ain't for nothing that that 234 year-old document sealed away in DC was penned on good 'ol hemp, grown, perhaps, from our man Jefferson's illustrious hemp farms.

🙂

 

[coreyb]

lol. "I video game while high."

ah, come on man. don't make this more difficult for the rest of us...were you sent in here by Heller or something?

😀

okay, well I mentioned the golf thing. I've also did jiu jitsu and muay thai high and was able to hang with the sober people. theres a reason why alcoholics get DUIs and stoners dont.

 

[coreyb]

and i dont think casual/light weight pot smokers would even attempt to drive high. god knows I wouldnt even of thought of it in my early days of smoking, when you could barely stop laughing or get off the couch.

 

[zinfamous]

okay, well I mentioned the golf thing. I've also did jiu jitsu and muay thai high and was able to hang with the sober people. theres a reason why alcoholics get DUIs and stoners dont.

hey, I've done dumb-ass shit while high, while drunk in my life.

I totally agree with you about this, though. I think twitch reaction (FPS video game and such) is much better while high than while drunk. easily. I know exactly what you're saying, and it's a good argument.

the problem with the argument, is that outsiders have no concept of this. they simply don't get it. It's a good argument--but they won't be able to appreciate it. :\

I'm not saying don't make this argument...it's just that it is easily made ineffective, because to the outsider it evokes the stoner sitting on his couch playing video games and eating cheetos, arguing that he's so much better at video games on weed than he is on booze.

that's the problem. Unfortunately, it's difficult to make ti a valid argument b/c the outsider will seldom step into the logical framework that makes it a good argument.

 

[BoomerD]

http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/driving.html

"Why is Drugged Driving Hazardous?

Drugs acting on the brain can alter perception, cognition, attention, balance, coordination, reaction time, and other faculties required for safe driving. The effects of specific drugs of abuse differ depending on their mechanisms of action, the amount consumed, the history of the user, and other factors.

Marijuana
THC affects areas of the brain that control the body’s movements, balance, coordination, memory, and judgment, as well as sensations. Because these effects are multifaceted, more research is required to understand marijuana's impact on the ability of drivers to react to complex and unpredictable situations. However, we do know that:

* A meta-analysis of approximately 60 experimental studies, including laboratory, driving simulator, and on-road experiments, found that behavioral and cognitive skills related to driving performance were impaired in a dose-dependent fashion with increasing THC blood levels.11
* Evidence from both real and simulated driving studies indicates that marijuana can negatively affect a driver's attentiveness, perception of time and speed, and the ability to draw on information obtained from past experiences.
* A study of over 3000 fatally-injured drivers in Australia showed that when marijuana was present in the blood of the driver they were much more likely to be at fault for the accident. And the higher the THC concentration, the more likely they were to be culpable.12
* Research shows that impairment increases significantly when marijuana use is combined with alcohol.13 Studies have found that many drivers who test positive for alcohol also test positive for THC, making it clear that drinking and drugged driving are often linked behaviors."

 

[0roo0roo]

growing your own isn't quite the same as home brew, thats food safety. the ease of growing a plant is what undermines the black market.

you only need fancy hydroponics if its illegal.

otherwise its just a weed in the yard...in cali climate...no problem.

 

[coreyb]

http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/driving.html

"Why is Drugged Driving Hazardous?

Drugs acting on the brain can alter perception, cognition, attention, balance, coordination, reaction time, and other faculties required for safe driving. The effects of specific drugs of abuse differ depending on their mechanisms of action, the amount consumed, the history of the user, and other factors.

Marijuana
THC affects areas of the brain that control the body’s movements, balance, coordination, memory, and judgment, as well as sensations. Because these effects are multifaceted, more research is required to understand marijuana's impact on the ability of drivers to react to complex and unpredictable situations. However, we do know that:

* A meta-analysis of approximately 60 experimental studies, including laboratory, driving simulator, and on-road experiments, found that behavioral and cognitive skills related to driving performance were impaired in a dose-dependent fashion with increasing THC blood levels.11
* Evidence from both real and simulated driving studies indicates that marijuana can negatively affect a driver's attentiveness, perception of time and speed, and the ability to draw on information obtained from past experiences.
* A study of over 3000 fatally-injured drivers in Australia showed that when marijuana was present in the blood of the driver they were much more likely to be at fault for the accident. And the higher the THC concentration, the more likely they were to be culpable.12
* Research shows that impairment increases significantly when marijuana use is combined with alcohol.13 Studies have found that many drivers who test positive for alcohol also test positive for THC, making it clear that drinking and drugged driving are often linked behaviors."

wow, you quoted a biased government study? I'm a believer now.

Real life experience trumps retarded "reefer madness" drug studies. They also probably did this test on people with little or no prior marijuana use.

These are the same people who say marijuana is a gateway drug and if you buy weed you are supporting terrorism.

nice try though.

 

[coreyb]

hey, I've done dumb-ass shit while high, while drunk in my life.

I totally agree with you about this, though. I think twitch reaction (FPS video game and such) is much better while high than while drunk. easily. I know exactly what you're saying, and it's a good argument.

the problem with the argument, is that outsiders have no concept of this. they simply don't get it. It's a good argument--but they won't be able to appreciate it. :\

I'm not saying don't make this argument...it's just that it is easily made ineffective, because to the outsider it evokes the stoner sitting on his couch playing video games and eating cheetos, arguing that he's so much better at video games on weed than he is on booze.

that's the problem. Unfortunately, it's difficult to make ti a valid argument b/c the outsider will seldom step into the logical framework that makes it a good argument.

totally agree with you here. the squares just don't understand!

 

[KingGheedora]

well, the black market can certain continue under several factors:

--taxed way too much to compete with black market
--"legal" bud is lesser quality than what you get underground--and you're still paying too much for it.


now, where would this legal source be coming from? well, established growhouses that already supply the clinics. none of that is bad, certainly.

black market will be from those that grow their own legally, but also want to do so for free....or make a wee bit of profit. Thing is--that is going to be TOUGH. Or, I'd assume it would be if seeing as I don't think there is currently any regulation for such a market.

Every household has been able to brew its own beer, distill its own liquor, ferment its own fermentables with annual limits based on alcohol percentage ever since Carter was in the White House. Does that mean that we, as private brewers or distillers are able to freely distribute our product without proper licensing and classification? no, we can't.

I'm pretty sure that you'll see many forces competing for several years if this happens--much of it still quasi-to-illegal, even under the new law. best bet would be for individual growers to simply supply their friends. Maybe a group of people chip in for a single crop, in a single location, then share it amongst themselves.

...but that cuts the expected massive revenue rate down, doesn't it?

I think the anti-prop 19 crowd has plenty of valid arguments in terms of details and what will really happen here; Boomer makes a lot of good points.

Still, I'm voting Yes.

I can't logically think of a valid reason in our pill-popping, caffeine-addled world to keep this wonder drug illegal. Plus, you get all of the unpublished, and hence un-argued benefits of hemp culturing. you wanna talk about paper production and industrial fiber production? ....man. It ain't for nothing that that 234 year-old document sealed away in DC was penned on good 'ol hemp, grown, perhaps, from our man Jefferson's illustrious hemp farms.

🙂

So I still see no reason black market would prevail. I don't know how the regulation would work, but for now I assume it'd be similar to alcohol, since minors won't be able to buy it, and they still don't want people driving or working while intoxicated.

If it is taxed high enough the black market will be significant, just how cigarette black market exists in ghetto neighborhoods in NYC now that they are being taxed pretty heavily. But even then I don't think the black market would be anywhere near as big as the legal one. It is just less hassle to get it legally, since you'd be able to get it when you need it, and you don't have to rely on shady and/or unreliable dealers to provide you. Also some of the population simply don't have the connections necessary to get on the black market (including today, in the un-legalized system).

 

[zinfamous]

So I still see no reason black market would prevail. I don't know how the regulation would work, but for now I assume it'd be similar to alcohol, since minors won't be able to buy it, and they still don't want people driving or working while intoxicated.

If it is taxed high enough the black market will be significant, just how cigarette black market exists in ghetto neighborhoods in NYC now that they are being taxed pretty heavily. But even then I don't think the black market would be anywhere near as big as the legal one. It is just less hassle to get it legally, since you'd be able to get it when you need it, and you don't have to rely on shady and/or unreliable dealers to provide you. Also some of the population simply don't have the connections necessary to get on the black market (including today, in the un-legalized system).

well, that's kind of my main question, right now. Who provides the legal--meaning, legal to distribute bud? There is an infrastructure in place already, but are individual home growers going to be prevented from selling to their friends and others or simply giving the cannabis away? Can they do si if they're licensed? Will it be taxed the same, un-taxed...how will they enforce it? Are there ways to distribute and receive pot that undermine the supposed revenue stream that everyone likes to talk about?

At the same time, the AG has already let us know that they will enforce federal law, ....so there's another issue.

If anything, I'm voting yes, hoping to see how this experiment plays out.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/driving.html

"Why is Drugged Driving Hazardous?

Drugs acting on the brain can alter perception, cognition, attention, balance, coordination, reaction time, and other faculties required for safe driving. The effects of specific drugs of abuse differ depending on their mechanisms of action, the amount consumed, the history of the user, and other factors.

Marijuana
THC affects areas of the brain that control the body’s movements, balance, coordination, memory, and judgment, as well as sensations. Because these effects are multifaceted, more research is required to understand marijuana's impact on the ability of drivers to react to complex and unpredictable situations. However, we do know that:

* A meta-analysis of approximately 60 experimental studies, including laboratory, driving simulator, and on-road experiments, found that behavioral and cognitive skills related to driving performance were impaired in a dose-dependent fashion with increasing THC blood levels.11
* Evidence from both real and simulated driving studies indicates that marijuana can negatively affect a driver's attentiveness, perception of time and speed, and the ability to draw on information obtained from past experiences.
* A study of over 3000 fatally-injured drivers in Australia showed that when marijuana was present in the blood of the driver they were much more likely to be at fault for the accident. And the higher the THC concentration, the more likely they were to be culpable.12
* Research shows that impairment increases significantly when marijuana use is combined with alcohol.13 Studies have found that many drivers who test positive for alcohol also test positive for THC, making it clear that drinking and drugged driving are often linked behaviors."

DUI is already illegal whats the point of this?

 

[schneiderguy]

bump for election day :awe:

 

[Saint Nick]

Do we find out tomorrow or what? In the off chance it passes, when does it go into effect? I thought we had to wait until after the first of the year...