*** Official iPad 2 Launch Thread and other things announced on 3/2/11 ***

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Monster_Munch

Senior member
Oct 19, 2010
873
1
0
The Xoom's biggest problem is lack of iPad quality software. The new honeycomb web browser looks great, and some of the google developed apps like youtube, gmail etc are nice.

For games and third party apps the iPad is still king, and will be for a while.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
According to engadget the ipad2 is blazingly fast. There were many people who thought that dual core would fix Android woes, including myself, but it's clear that something needs to be done on a software level.

Once all iOS devices get the new A5 chip, the OS is going to be hard to beat in responsiveness.
 

postaled

Senior member
Feb 20, 2007
254
0
0
What we don't know is CPU performance.... but IMHO we can all safely assume that both Tegra 2 and the Apple A5 are more than capable of smoothly powering anything we're doing on the tablets. Thats not where the specs are superior... here's where they are.

Xoom - 1280 x 800 vs 1024 x 768 - iPad2
Xoom - 1GB Ram vs likely 512MB Ram - iPad2
Xoom - 32GB Flash + SD Slot vs NO SD Slot
Xoom - 10.1 Screen vs 9.7 Sceen - iPad2

FWIW I also like the form factor of the Xoom better than the form factor of the iPad..

In terms of the software experience... IMHO I am bored to tears with iOS... grids of icons galore... I'm just not impressed. Honeycomb however really provides an enjoyable software experience... Of course this is just my opinion, it's kinda like I enjoy a stick shift car better than an automatic. iOS gets the job done, for my Mom it's great... for me it's just boring.

The licensing and marketing is where Apple wins... the fact that there is no Android store where I can easily go and buy TV shows and movies to download to my tablet is a HUUUUGE negative for Android. Also Apple has tremendous brand name power... people know what they're getting with Apple... there's no mystery, they know they'll get quality. The same is not true of Motorola or Samsung. Again this doesn't mean the product is better... it just means Apple as a company has a much better reputation.

I hope that Samsung decides to release Media Hub for the Tab 10.1... if they do, then that's my next tablet. Otherwise I'll have to figure out how to easily steal movies in a useable format.. since that seems to be easier than buying/renting them these days.

One of the big problems with the Xoom + Honeycomb right now though is that it has apps crashing all the time. I was playing around with one at a Verizon store and I had 2 crash on me within ~ 10 minutes, that is way too much to have that be happening.

With some updates that aspect should be gone and hopefully you can disable the whole '3D' effect when switching screens. I'd love to see things like that go away so we can see better performance on lower end tablets.
 

SAWYER

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,742
42
91
I tried the Xoom at best Buy and I had two forced close errors in the two apps Ii tried to use
 

Cruisin1

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,119
0
71
I tried the Xoom at best Buy and I had two forced close errors in the two apps Ii tried to use

I was playing with my coworkers app and within ten minutes several apps closed for no reason. Netflix in particular closed several times for no reason.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
According to engadget the ipad2 is blazingly fast. There were many people who thought that dual core would fix Android woes, including myself, but it's clear that something needs to be done on a software level.

Once all iOS devices get the new A5 chip, the OS is going to be hard to beat in responsiveness.

What are these Android woes people talk about? I'm sporting a Galaxy Tab that is silky smooth... just running 2.2. I guess I just don't see it. I mean the more complex you elect to make your customization, the more likely you are to hit issues i suppose... the iOS benefits from being dirt simple. But in my experience you can get pretty elaborate with your Android setups before you hit any issues.

This is of course assuming you're running one of the higher end Android platforms... if you're running a cheapo-android platform... well then you shouldn't really expect it to perform on par with iPhone/iPad which are high end platforms.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
One of the big problems with the Xoom + Honeycomb right now though is that it has apps crashing all the time. I was playing around with one at a Verizon store and I had 2 crash on me within ~ 10 minutes, that is way too much to have that be happening.

With some updates that aspect should be gone and hopefully you can disable the whole '3D' effect when switching screens. I'd love to see things like that go away so we can see better performance on lower end tablets.

I was playing with one in the store and did have one crash... so I agree some software refinement is definitely required. Didn't realize it was that pervasive though.
 

ChAoTiCpInOy

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
6,442
1
81
What are these Android woes people talk about? I'm sporting a Galaxy Tab that is silky smooth... just running 2.2. I guess I just don't see it. I mean the more complex you elect to make your customization, the more likely you are to hit issues i suppose... the iOS benefits from being dirt simple. But in my experience you can get pretty elaborate with your Android setups before you hit any issues.

This is of course assuming you're running one of the higher end Android platforms... if you're running a cheapo-android platform... well then you shouldn't really expect it to perform on par with iPhone/iPad which are high end platforms.

Even the iPhone 2G is silk smooth in terms of the UI. Responsiveness is the issue that most people have with Android devices when comparing it to iOS.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Even the iPhone 2G is silk smooth in terms of the UI. Responsiveness is the issue that most people have with Android devices when comparing it to iOS.

Well I haven't had a problem with it on Froyo+ at least... for me the ideal tablet would be something like the Samsung Tab 10.1 but with iTunes. I'd be willing to deal with some 3.0 bleeding edge bugs for what I find to be a much better UI experience.
 

Monster_Munch

Senior member
Oct 19, 2010
873
1
0
Well I haven't had a problem with it on Froyo+ at least... for me the ideal tablet would be something like the Samsung Tab 10.1 but with iTunes. I'd be willing to deal with some 3.0 bleeding edge bugs for what I find to be a much better UI experience.

For me the ideal tablet would be an ipad without itunes :p

I prefer having a direct file transfer to get my music and movies onto the device instead of using itunes sync.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,551
136
What we don't know is CPU performance.... but IMHO we can all safely assume that both Tegra 2 and the Apple A5 are more than capable of smoothly powering anything we're doing on the tablets. Thats not where the specs are superior... here's where they are.

Xoom - 1280 x 800 vs 1024 x 768 - iPad2

The screen is slightly larger so it does have a larger pixel count. At that size, it's not that noticeable. Slight edge to the Xoom.

Xoom - 1GB Ram vs likely 512MB Ram - iPad2
512MB is not set in stone. That's speculation given that the first gen iPad had 256MB and the iPhone 4 had 512MB. Either way, I haven't seen any apps on Android that would even require that much RAM. We've got games like Infinity Blade and Rage running on the first gen iPad and there is nothing that demanding that I've seen on Android. If anything, with the way Android saves your application state, it's required for it to have more RAM than an equivalent iOS device to maintain performance. I can't see this one going to Android. At best a wash. And if the iPad 2 has 1GB RAM, I'd give the edge to the iPad 2 for the reasons given.

Xoom - 32GB Flash + SD Slot vs NO SD Slot
Honestly...this is not a big deal. You're thinking like a techie here. For general consumer use you'd be surprised how small of an amount of people would care. For those that do, there is an optional $30 sd card reader. Again, I can't label it superior. I'd give the edge to Xoom.

Xoom - 10.1 Screen vs 9.7 Sceen - iPad2
Negligible. I doubt anyone would notice except if you had them side by side. A better comparison would be screen quality. Just as a most people consider a TFT screen to be inferior to an IPS even if size and resolution are the same.

FWIW I also like the form factor of the Xoom better than the form factor of the iPad..
I think you meant the feel of the Xoom not the form factor. If you're talking form factor, they're both rectangular slabs of glass, plastic and metal. :)

In terms of the software experience... IMHO I am bored to tears with iOS... grids of icons galore... I'm just not impressed. Honeycomb however really provides an enjoyable software experience... Of course this is just my opinion, it's kinda like I enjoy a stick shift car better than an automatic. iOS gets the job done, for my Mom it's great... for me it's just boring.
Again, you're speaking from the perspective of a techie. Apple's attempt was a smooth and easy to use OS and you gotta admit iOS does that in spades. I have used Android devices, my brother has an Android phone. In all honesty, it's not that difficult to use but it does take a few minutes of playing around with it to understand how it works. iOS on the other hand will take less than a minute and is almost idiot proof.

Apple also tries to spit shine their OS and while nothing is ever bug free, I've seen less news of iOS issues like crashing and hanging than on Android. I know you're trying to give intelligent replies and are not one of those trolls but we all know there is a small contingent who are hell bent on crapping on Apple and anyone who uses Apple products so we would have heard about any major iOS issues.

The licensing and marketing is where Apple wins... the fact that there is no Android store where I can easily go and buy TV shows and movies to download to my tablet is a HUUUUGE negative for Android. Also Apple has tremendous brand name power... people know what they're getting with Apple... there's no mystery, they know they'll get quality. The same is not true of Motorola or Samsung. Again this doesn't mean the product is better... it just means Apple as a company has a much better reputation.

I hope that Samsung decides to release Media Hub for the Tab 10.1... if they do, then that's my next tablet. Otherwise I'll have to figure out how to easily steal movies in a useable format.. since that seems to be easier than buying/renting them these days.
Well, with Apple's huge user base and how well integrated it's integrated with iTunes, it just makes looking for apps and music to purchase very easy. The fact that developers don't have to worry as much about advertising their apps makes it a higher priority for app development. The new Android Market is better but it's still got a ways to go before it matches iTunes.

Software is really the strength of the iOS devices. From the iOS software which is drop dead easy to use and the ease of looking for and purchasing apps and music.

The Xoom is a decent device. It has it's pluses as well ans it's minuses and it's definitely a nice device for certain people. All in all, Xoom has a slight edge in hardware, the sizable edge in software for the iPad. But again, I can't label the Xoom superior. Better in some ways, inferior in others. But definitely not superior. For the Xoom to be labeled superior, it'd have to have a definite quality about it that makes someone say the iPad can't touch that. It just doesn't have that.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
The screen is slightly larger so it does have a larger pixel count. At that size, it's not that noticeable. Slight edge to the Xoom.

512MB is not set in stone. That's speculation given that the first gen iPad had 256MB and the iPhone 4 had 512MB. Either way, I haven't seen any apps on Android that would even require that much RAM. We've got games like Infinity Blade and Rage running on the first gen iPad and there is nothing that demanding that I've seen on Android. If anything, with the way Android saves your application state, it's required for it to have more RAM than an equivalent iOS device to maintain performance. I can't see this one going to Android. At best a wash. And if the iPad 2 has 1GB RAM, I'd give the edge to the iPad 2 for the reasons given.

Honestly...this is not a big deal. You're thinking like a techie here. For general consumer use you'd be surprised how small of an amount of people would care. For those that do, there is an optional $30 sd card reader. Again, I can't label it superior. I'd give the edge to Xoom.

Negligible. I doubt anyone would notice except if you had them side by side. A better comparison would be screen quality. Just as a most people consider a TFT screen to be inferior to an IPS even if size and resolution are the same.

I think you meant the feel of the Xoom not the form factor. If you're talking form factor, they're both rectangular slabs of glass, plastic and metal. :)

Again, you're speaking from the perspective of a techie. Apple's attempt was a smooth and easy to use OS and you gotta admit iOS does that in spades. I have used Android devices, my brother has an Android phone. In all honesty, it's not that difficult to use but it does take a few minutes of playing around with it to understand how it works. iOS on the other hand will take less than a minute and is almost idiot proof.

Apple also tries to spit shine their OS and while nothing is ever bug free, I've seen less news of iOS issues like crashing and hanging than on Android. I know you're trying to give intelligent replies and are not one of those trolls but we all know there is a small contingent who are hell bent on crapping on Apple and anyone who uses Apple products so we would have heard about any major iOS issues.

Well, with Apple's huge user base and how well integrated it's integrated with iTunes, it just makes looking for apps and music to purchase very easy. The fact that developers don't have to worry as much about advertising their apps makes it a higher priority for app development. The new Android Market is better but it's still got a ways to go before it matches iTunes.

Software is really the strength of the iOS devices. From the iOS software which is drop dead easy to use and the ease of looking for and purchasing apps and music.

The Xoom is a decent device. It has it's pluses as well ans it's minuses and it's definitely a nice device for certain people. All in all, Xoom has a slight edge in hardware, the sizable edge in software for the iPad. But again, I can't label the Xoom superior. Better in some ways, inferior in others. But definitely not superior. For the Xoom to be labeled superior, it'd have to have a definite quality about it that makes someone say the iPad can't touch that. It just doesn't have that.

... when I say form factor of the Xoom, I'm referring to the dimensions of the rectangle, and the thickness of the bezel.

I think you're confusing the issue here... the question is not... "Which tablet is best for the lowest common denominator?"... in terms of that there's no question the iPad is best. The question is "Which tablet is best for ME?"... I am not the lowest common denominator, and for me the Xoom in terms of hardware is Superior... not vastly superior... but it is Superior... the UI is vastly superior... the Apps are a wash... and the Media capabilities is vastly inferior.
 

ChAoTiCpInOy

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
6,442
1
81
... when I say form factor of the Xoom, I'm referring to the dimensions of the rectangle, and the thickness of the bezel.

I think you're confusing the issue here... the question is not... "Which tablet is best for the lowest common denominator?"... in terms of that there's no question the iPad is best. The question is "Which tablet is best for ME?"... I am not the lowest common denominator, and for me the Xoom in terms of hardware is Superior... not vastly superior... but it is Superior... the UI is vastly superior... the Apps are a wash... and the Media capabilities is vastly inferior.

But to you the reason its superior is because of what? The CPU/GPU/RAM? You don't need all that for a device to be superior.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Well, I think this needs some explaining. There are those who religiously believe that there is absolutely no way for Apple to have hardware that matches any competition, much less surpassing them.

Even if it is a fact that Apple's A5 may just outperform Tegra 2 in terms of graphics performance, or if Apple's A5 may outperform the competition at certain CPU tasks on benchmarks, these people will always attribute it to "negligible" error and favor Android because of these same reasons:
- You can transfer files directly
- It's an open system
- There are widgets
- It's not an Apple device

And then rinse, repeat for the next tablet that comes be it the TouchPad or the PlayBook.

But this is not without reason. For years, Apple has presented itself as a company that charges a premium for its products, which have much more inferior hardware to the competition. That mindset has sunk in after more than 10 years, and it wouldn't suddenly change in a year or two. I suspect it'll take enthusiasts another 5 years to comprehend what Apple has to offer now that is different from what they offered 10 years ago.

Edit: but for those of us who understand that we don't need a 4GHz quad-core CPU with 32GB of RAM to run Notepad, it's easier to comprehend where Apple stands on the market. But you have to see that not everyone understands the full benefits of small, low power, and low profile devices. Some of us just want to have the biggest and baddest no matter the cost.
 
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NaOH

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2006
5,015
0
0
I was playing with my coworkers app and within ten minutes several apps closed for no reason. Netflix in particular closed several times for no reason.

This is the exact thing I was talking about. The devices need to be stable to even begin to compete at the mainstream level that the Apple has control of right now.If they wanna stay in the techy niche, then I guess this is working for them.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
I was playing with my coworkers app and within ten minutes several apps closed for no reason. Netflix in particular closed several times for no reason.

Wait, are you saying that there's a Netflix app that runs on the Xoom?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
For me the ideal tablet would be an ipad without itunes :p

I prefer having a direct file transfer to get my music and movies onto the device instead of using itunes sync.

You can transfer files to an iOS device without syncing ;). You just select manually manage my music, and you drag and drop files in iTunes. Unfortunately, I don't think you can transfer them off.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Problem is, scaling up amobile OS is not that easy. If it was, the Galaxy Tab and the myriad of Android tabletd running 2.2 should have been much more successful. Honeycomb shouldn't have been necessary, and the competition shouldn't need much faster hardware to beat the original iPad.

Android does a WAY better job with scaling apps than iOS does. I remember when my brother got an iPad the first week and everything looked TERRIBLE because so many app developers used raster images that were the EXACT size of the iPhones screen.

With Android, there are so many phone sizes that the decent programs (EX. Angry Birds, Dolphin HD, etc.) seem to use vector images that scale perfectly to the screen. Angry Birds looks like a million bucks on my Froyo Nook Color.

Honeycomb was "necessary" because what works for a phone doesn't work for a tablet:

1. First of all, the phones can get by without GPU accelerated GUIs, while on a high res tablet the lack of responsiveness hurts the experience.

2. Phones have tons of buttons on them as an industry standard, while Apple has made it so tablets have few buttons on them as a standard. Since every Android app assumes (at least) four buttons, a new OS was needed to break that.

3. On a phone you don't have the power or screen size to multitask, but on a tablet (especially if you use it as a laptop replacement) multitasking is a big part of the appeal. With Honeycomb Google finally added the first moden task switcher to ANY tablet OS.
 
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runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
He probably didn't get iPad-specific apps. And either way, there is a way to scale most iPhone apps to iPad size when you jailbreak the device, so it's not like there isn't any way you can get perfect scaling on the iPad.

And when we start playing the "who did it first" game, especially with respect to software features, and interface elements, you will find that in the end, no one did anything first. In this respect, I dare say that Honeycomb didn't do anything first, and a number of its interface elements, especially the switcher, were showcased on RIM's PlayBook way earlier, and PlayBook stole the idea from WebOS either way.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Did you guys even read Anand's review? http://www.anandtech.com/show/4191/motorola-xoom-review-first-honeycomb-tablet-arrives

The Xoom is appealing because it lets you be more productive, i.e. it's much, much easier to multitask. I don't want a device that's really good at doing one thing at a time. I don't work like that on my computer or on my phone, so why is that a good idea for a tablet?

Yea but it's buggy. It still needs tweaks to the software. iOS still has lots of negatives though as it's not slick at multitasking and notifications suck but I'm sure they'll remedy the notification issue in June since they've had the WebOS guy that did the notifications for them for a while as it desperately needs that fixed.
 
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