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tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
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They better implement the local server duty finder option for crystal tower. At least then you can all queue at the same time and see if the dungeon pops for you.
Still looking forward to it, even while dreading it. I doubt we'll ever see local server DF queues, but we'll probably see the ability to build our own alliance at some point...I will hope for pre- 2.2.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
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It'll be fun the first few times, until you realize those people that are holding you back are going to be in every queue you make.

Isn't local duty finder coming in 2.1? Would make no sense to not have this in place or to take it out explicitly for CT.
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
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My fault, you're right. I thought I'd read over all the expected upcoming changes, but for some reason I kept glossing over the duty finder options.

CT DF will really depend on the difficulty, for which they have sent mixed signals so far. I'm not digging the lv55 gear req...seems too low for something 'hard' you're forced to PUG.
 
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asteldian

Member
Nov 25, 2013
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Is Local Duty Finder your server only? My biggest issue with the game is having to DF with other servers, I like grouping with my own server and believe it helps build a communiy. Heck, most my Guildies in past games come from people we bump into in a Dungeon.

I actually like the idea of CT being only one group of friends, the rest strangers because one problem with MMOs these days is they become very silo based - once in an FC you rarely do anything with otherson the server, whereas something like this will help bring different people together.
Having said that, it is risky for the very real fears others have - poor players preventing you from getting anywhere. However, I get a feeling that will be a minority case (maybe I am an optimist). When using DF for current content it is often random people thrown together, however, I would imagine, in the majority of cases, that the groups for CT will be 3 premade groups of 8, presumably 3 FCs wanting to do CT. True there will be times when it is a purely random group off 8, but I think it won't be too common.

On another note , I am always amazed at thoese complaining about having to FATE grind their alts. My main char has pretty much done no side quests since lvl 20 because I have just focused on Story and Class quests and at lvl 40 am yet to run short on the questling (well, occasionally I have been 10 or 20k xp short of lvl).

I guess if I put on blinkers and solely focused on each quest to the exclusion of all else I would have needed the side quests, but generally when going from A - B on a quest I can't resist jumping into a FATE nearby, heck, sometimes I would inadvertantly do 5 or so FATES by the time I get to my destination. Due to playing this way I have not had to do any actual farming of anything, my main alts haven't either (Marauder and Conjurer, both mid 20s) thanks to them being in seperate areas for vls 1-20 and me having left so many quests behind
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
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local duty finder = your server only. It'll be the only way to keep in touch with people you do duty finder with.

You don't understand people complaining about fate grinding because you haven't done it. Doing 4-5 fates in a row is not "fate grinding". Doing them for the next 10 hours on your character because you can't level up any other way is "fate grinding". I personally don't mind it because I do them in short bursts of 2-3 levels (which take about 2 hours) but beyond the 2 hour mark it starts to grate on my nerves.
 
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asteldian

Member
Nov 25, 2013
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local duty finder = your server only. It'll be the only way to keep in touch with people you do duty finder with.

You don't understand people complaining about fate grinding because you haven't done it. Doing 4-5 fates in a row is not "fate grinding". Doing them for the next 10 hours on your character because you can't level up any other way is "fate grinding". I personally don't mind it because I do them in short bursts of 2-3 levels (which take about 2 hours) but beyond the 2 hour mark it starts to grate on my nerves.
I understand FATE farming, what I don't understand is how people are requiring it so soon. My main is 40 without any side quests done, my Conj and Marauder are 26 and have all the post lvl 20 area quests to do, one of them will get to 40 without having to FATE farm and I think there is actually a good chance the other will get to 40 without any farming. I understand why people complain about FATE farming, it just surprises that so many seem to have to do it as early as with their 2nd char
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
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All questlines converge on coerthas at 35 or so and you'll be out of quests. Sub 30 is pretty easy with just hunting logs and a few fate grinds here and there.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
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I understand FATE farming, what I don't understand is how people are requiring it so soon. My main is 40 without any side quests done, my Conj and Marauder are 26 and have all the post lvl 20 area quests to do, one of them will get to 40 without having to FATE farm and I think there is actually a good chance the other will get to 40 without any farming. I understand why people complain about FATE farming, it just surprises that so many seem to have to do it as early as with their 2nd char
I have done exactly one half-level of fate grinding [I recognize that most wouldn't consider this a grind. Meh.]. Currently lvl 47. That one half level was 42, I believe.

If memory serves, I'm out of quests now though, so I'll be grinding up a bit further now. Might do raids though. not sure. Probably both.

Edit: I've left no side quests behind either.
 
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tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
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I've only leveled 1 class, arcanist, and it has 2 different job questlines to do. Still, I have almost zero quests left available around 30+ or 35+. If you like to do quests or do them for the experience or any other reason, it's not terribly difficult to run out of quests to do simply by leveling 1 class. However, people often take different approaches. I did a little FATE grinding at times, but a good portion of my experience came from the side quests. I left very few behind.

But...frankly I'd rather FATE grind then have a ton more quests to do that require I cross the continent and the sea to play tag with someone/something and return for more (usually) boring dialog & story. I'm not a fan of leves either: run out, start leve, kill, return....repeat. At least FATES have fewer time wasting steps. I literally haven't done a single battle leve beyond the initial quests @ each camp to unlock leves there.

I agree with the folks that say it would be nice if dungeons and regular mob killin gave similarly viable exp rates. They already have the content there...they just don't give you enough reason to do it. Simply rebalancing the exp for current content would give people more options to stay interested.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
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Dungeons and mob grinding can both give excellent exp, there's just a higher difficulty curve to achieving it and smaller windows of opportunity to do so. Not all camps are suited for mob chaining and outlevelling them hurts XP pretty significantly, so you would really need to 'plan ahead'. They're both great options for pre-mades/static parties but not so much for PUGs.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
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I do dungeons as they become available and it's not really "excellent" exp. Sure the individual mobs give a lot of exp, but there's fewer mobs and there's not much reward for completion if its not your first time. In the same amount of time, if I had run fates i would've gotten about 2-3x more exp. God forbid we wipe: it'll take like 90 minutes to NOT finish the dungeon.

Example: cutters cry at 38. Do it, get about maybe 80-90k exp and some loot at 38. Takes about an hour because of new people, but you get the 50% bonus on mob kills. Now look at fates: in an hour you can probably get 100k exp, 200k if you do savara and cyclops. 2 hours of dungeon vs 2 hours of fates: one will get me about half a level and the other will get me 2 levels.

There's a reason people don't run dungeons: I run it once when they become available to learn my class as I level and to play with new abilities, but for people that just want a 50 and don't care about learning their classes, fates are way faster and better and there's 0 incentive to level via dungeons. Gear at lvl 50 is all that matters anyway.
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
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Dungeons and mob grinding can both give excellent exp, there's just a higher difficulty curve to achieving it and smaller windows of opportunity to do so. Not all camps are suited for mob chaining and outlevelling them hurts XP pretty significantly, so you would really need to 'plan ahead'. They're both great options for pre-mades/static parties but not so much for PUGs.
I think the difficulty compared to FATES and the smaller window of opportunity you point out kinda kills it. Perhaps SE had some master plan of "well, players will do this dungeon for X levels, then do some fates and leves between these levels, then do this dungeon for a while, then do more FATES and leves...etc", but they just made FATEs too appealing for EXPing in every respect except ...being interesting lol. I personally would be doing the dungeons every time they became available if leveling a new class, but it would be for fun (a change of pace) and to learn the job rather than planning to get great XP. Too many variables in order to realize "excellent" exp for the average person and PUG.
 

asteldian

Member
Nov 25, 2013
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I definitely wish dungeons gave more xp. Regardless of lvl you should always get Chain xp in a dungeon, while that still won't match FATE grinds, at least it will help give a decent amount of xp so that people may consider it as a break from FATEs
 

nanobreath

Senior member
May 14, 2008
978
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If your only goal is to level up as quickly as possible, by only the most efficient means available, IT IS GOING TO BE A GRIND. Whether it is quests, fates, dungeons whatever, it is going to suck. It's going to get boring. Doing the same thing over and over again sucks.

I have been leveling arcanist and doing fates, quests, logs, dungeons, etc. Everything available to me whenever I feel like doing it. While I want to level up quickly, I'm not going to bore myself while playing a game in order to get there a little faster. With rested bonus, dungeons are actually pretty good experience. But my sole goal isn't to level the fastest, its to enjoy the time I'm playing. And doing dungeons is one of the more enjoyable experiences to me.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
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I do dungeons as they become available and it's not really "excellent" exp. Sure the individual mobs give a lot of exp, but there's fewer mobs and there's not much reward for completion if its not your first time. In the same amount of time, if I had run fates i would've gotten about 2-3x more exp. God forbid we wipe: it'll take like 90 minutes to NOT finish the dungeon.

Example: cutters cry at 38. Do it, get about maybe 80-90k exp and some loot at 38. Takes about an hour because of new people, but you get the 50% bonus on mob kills. Now look at fates: in an hour you can probably get 100k exp, 200k if you do savara and cyclops. 2 hours of dungeon vs 2 hours of fates: one will get me about half a level and the other will get me 2 levels.
I think you're shortchanging the amount of XP earned and overestimating the time it takes - Cutter's Cry is admittedly not one of the more lucrative dungeons because of the potential to get hung up on the Chimera though. But I ran Brayflox a lot levelling scholar and it rarely took more than a half hour and I want to say I would generally earn 80-90k XP, which is something like 160k-180k per hour if you run it twice. I have typically found dungeons are worth roughly half a level at the level you unlock them and rarely take more than a half hour, though I think some of the late 30s/mid 40s ones might be a bit longer, haven't been there in a while.

My experience is also PUGging them pretty exclusively, I think if you had a 'static' party it would be even better.
 

pathos

Senior member
Aug 12, 2009
461
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I understand FATE farming, what I don't understand is how people are requiring it so soon. My main is 40 without any side quests done, my Conj and Marauder are 26 and have all the post lvl 20 area quests to do, one of them will get to 40 without having to FATE farm and I think there is actually a good chance the other will get to 40 without any farming. I understand why people complain about FATE farming, it just surprises that so many seem to have to do it as early as with their 2nd char
Having plenty of experience changes in the 40's. Somewhere around 43 or 44 you'll probably start running out of things to do, and will be required to do some grinding to level up. At first, you'll probably only need to grind a quarter of your level. But, some levels I had to grind up to one half. I actually had to grind like 46 to 48 with no main quests or side quests. There were actually a few side quests to do at 46 I think, but I totally missed them (came back and did them at 49 I think).

Normally, when i had to grind, I'd do leve's or dungeons. If there was a fate nearby, then I'd do that too.

I do wish the dungeon experience got an overhaul, for sure.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
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I think you're shortchanging the amount of XP earned and overestimating the time it takes - Cutter's Cry is admittedly not one of the more lucrative dungeons because of the potential to get hung up on the Chimera though. But I ran Brayflox a lot levelling scholar and it rarely took more than a half hour and I want to say I would generally earn 80-90k XP, which is something like 160k-180k per hour if you run it twice. I have typically found dungeons are worth roughly half a level at the level you unlock them and rarely take more than a half hour, though I think some of the late 30s/mid 40s ones might be a bit longer, haven't been there in a while.

My experience is also PUGging them pretty exclusively, I think if you had a 'static' party it would be even better.
I've never finished brayflox in less than 45 minutes, even with me as the tank and speed pulling everything. There's too much variance on your party competency with pugs. On top of that there's a lot of room for error; i've wiped a fair amount of times on the dragon when I'm healing or DPSing.

The exp is pretty decent but falls off very quickly, meaning fates are still faster; if you want to run dungeons it'll be for loot and cosmetic stuff. I've ran darkhold a ton of times trying to get gladiator bikinis, but they elude me. :mad:
 

asteldian

Member
Nov 25, 2013
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Having plenty of experience changes in the 40's. Somewhere around 43 or 44 you'll probably start running out of things to do, and will be required to do some grinding to level up. At first, you'll probably only need to grind a quarter of your level. But, some levels I had to grind up to one half. I actually had to grind like 46 to 48 with no main quests or side quests. There were actually a few side quests to do at 46 I think, but I totally missed them (came back and did them at 49 I think).

Normally, when i had to grind, I'd do leve's or dungeons. If there was a fate nearby, then I'd do that too.

I do wish the dungeon experience got an overhaul, for sure.
Yeah, that's why I estimate my other 2 classes will get to 40 without much issue but certainly no further. I already know my main will have isues - he is 40 now and it is just getting to the point where I am getting to the next story quest before reaching the required level. I have all the Coertha quests to do and I know there are some in the zone over, but I will no doubt struggle. Then again, I still haven't done Cutters Cry and I believe another dungeon unlocks at 41.
Luckily I like dungeons and am not in a mad rush to 50, so I will probably get to the end without feeling like I have to mass farm. Course at 50 I then have to farm like crazy...though hopefully it will be after 17th Dec so there will be other ways to do it. But if not, well, I farmed dungeons to death in Rift and enjoyed it - just get some friends, skype up and cruise through, plenty of fun to be had
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
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Whaddya know, in the latest live letter transcript, SE stated they will be increasing exp in dungeons so people feel like it's more worthwhile to do them. Good deal. Now if only I had something to level...

There's a lot of info in the transcript that's already been known--and several questions/answers are almost identical to the last live letter--but there's some new tidbits as well. The more info they give us, the more I like the direction of the game right now.

Sorry...I can't get a link to it while I'm at work.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
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That's been announced for quite a while. I just want to know whether the amount they increase it by will be "worth" it. I'm lvling MRD right now and I'll likely be 50 way before the patch hits, but it's nice to see the dungeons instead of fate grind for 3 hours. I still have mages and DPS classes to level so I'll hopefully be able to get in on some dungeon action in december.
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
1,014
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I don't think the dungeons are that far off from providing good exp now, but I agree they could definitely still undershoot it. I hope duty roulette works out also as far as exp gained for doing random, possibly lower level dungeons. It could be a step in the right direction, but I think the under-50 dungeon drops could use an overhaul as well.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
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They need to 2x or 3x the exp on top of bonuses to offset the queue times alone, if you're not a tank. I'm thinking more along the lines of duty roulette awarding myth or philos that would help out low level players... though it would suck getting stuck in an incompetent team.

And the drops.... well, most people don't care about sub 50 drops anyway. I got all the vanity pieces I want outside of gladiator bras and subligars.
 

asteldian

Member
Nov 25, 2013
102
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They need to 2x or 3x the exp on top of bonuses to offset the queue times alone, if you're not a tank. I'm thinking more along the lines of duty roulette awarding myth or philos that would help out low level players... though it would suck getting stuck in an incompetent team.

And the drops.... well, most people don't care about sub 50 drops anyway. I got all the vanity pieces I want outside of gladiator bras and subligars.
While 2 or 3 times the xp would be great, the queues are a symptom of the current lack of xp in dungeons. If dungeons actually match FATE xp rate (or slightly exceed) then there will actually be people wanting to do them and therefore the queues should not be nearly as bad and so 2-3 times current xp is not necessary for dungeons to compete with FATE xp.

All dungeon loot tables should be changed to guarantee a Gladiator weapon drop which is not a dagger or a spanking paddle - because it is ridiculous that you have to spend your entire career using one of those two items as that seems to be all there is until the end
 

tedrodai

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2006
1,014
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Well they're not going to raise dungeon xp 2-3x the current value right now, because certain group combinations (especially a full group) could spam it with no queue times. So yeah, the other option is a smaller exp increase and then reduce queue times, which is basically what the roulette and other duty finder enhancements are aiming to do. I think a bonus to XP based on time spent in the queue wouldn't be a bad idea either...similar to resting XP, but only gained in the dungeon.

LOL at your 2nd comment asteldian. I've thought the same thing ever since the 1.0 release, and I'm sure most people have had it cross their minds.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
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You can already form groups to queue, I don't see the "spammability" of dungeon queues a problem since we do that with AP and AK already. I also don't see people immediately switching to dungeons, because dungeons have something FATEs don't: GEAR and SKILL checks. In fates you mash your face against the keyboard until you level up: in a dungeon if you're a shitty player, you fail. (Think Aurum Vale)

I don't foresee dungeon queues getting better for this reason. People are lazy, and unless dungeon exp is vastly better than fate exp, they won't switch. How else will you level to 50 in lvl 15 gear from satasha?
 

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