**Official** Condoleezza Rice - 9/11 Testimony Thread (CkG-Approved)

Page 10 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
i
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: Ldir

Hardly. Did you read it? It is another Bush fanboy blog blowing smoke and mirrors. All it proves is if you circle jerk too much you go blind. You are blind to the truth.
And just WTF is the "Center for American Progress". If you guessed "left-wing propaganda organization", you guessed correctly.

Thanks for playing. Please try again.

I guess you failed to look at the news sources from the article. AP, ABC, Newsweek, NBC, etc.

The CfAP was merely compiling various news sources to rebut Rice's claims.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: conjur

Name one thing the Bush administration did to physically attack or dismantle Al Qaeda in any way, prior to 9/11.



Here some more stuff they put in motion, thing was not enough time for inertia to occur.


Transcript from August 2002 Briefing:

RICHARD CLARKE: Actually, I've got about seven points, let me just go through them quickly. Um, the first point, I think the overall point is, there was no plan on Al Qaeda that was passed from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration.

Second point is that the Clinton administration had a strategy in place, effectively dating from 1998. And there were a number of issues on the table since 1998. And they remained on the table when that administration went out of office ? issues like aiding the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, changing our Pakistan policy -- uh, changing our policy toward Uzbekistan. And in January 2001, the incoming Bush administration was briefed on the existing strategy. They were also briefed on these series of issues that had not been decided on in a couple of years.

And the third point is the Bush administration decided then, you know, mid-January, to do two things. One, vigorously pursue the existing policy, including all of the lethal covert action findings, which we've now made public to some extent.

And the point is, while this big review was going on, there were still in effect, the lethal findings were still in effect. The second thing the administration decided to do is to initiate a process to look at those issues which had been on the table for a couple of years and get them decided.

So, point five, that process which was initiated in the first week in February, uh, decided in principle, uh in the spring to add to the existing Clinton strategy and to increase CIA resources, for example, for covert action, five-fold, to go after Al Qaeda.

The sixth point, the newly-appointed deputies ? and you had to remember, the deputies didn't get into office until late March, early April. The deputies then tasked the development of the implementation details, uh, of these new decisions that they were endorsing, and sending out to the principals.

Over the course of the summer ? last point ? they developed implementation details, the principals met at the end of the summer, approved them in their first meeting, changed the strategy by authorizing the increase in funding five-fold, changing the policy on Pakistan, changing the policy on Uzbekistan, changing the policy on the Northern Alliance assistance.

And then changed the strategy from one of rollback with Al Qaeda over the course [of] five years, which it had been, to a new strategy that called for the rapid elimination of al Qaeda. That is in fact the timeline.




QUESTION: When was that presented to the president?

CLARKE: Well, the president was briefed throughout this process.

QUESTION: But when was the final September 4 document? (interrupted) Was that presented to the president?

CLARKE: The document went to the president on September 10, I think.

What's the point of posting that?

Seriously. What are you getting at?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: conjur
They didn't.

Name one thing the Bush administration did to physically attack or dismantle Al Qaeda in any way, prior to 9/11.

Stopped Ashcroft from flying commercially!:disgust:

Sad, but true.

no...not true. the truth is the witch hunt backfired today did'nt it?

according to non other than clarke himself, plans were in fact being "acted upon" in the first 200 days of his administration, plans the previous administation did not begin to enact(AFTER already going through an attack on the WTC in 1993, SEVEN YEARS EARLIER!!!). and clarke not only said this in 2002, he re-iterated it in 2004 by saying "nothing said in 2002 was untrue"...

the simple truth is bush did more in 8 months than clinton did in 8 years but we have the "imprtial" commitee members ben veniste and kerrey get their arse handed to them while doing a bad perry mason imitation ,kerrey did not even apparantly know who he was even talking to! ROFL!!


you dems are trying to milk the blood of 2001 for all it's political worth...and that is what is sad but true.

i used to vote whatever i thought would be the best candidate no matter hwta political party, but come nov 2004 i am going to simply pull the republican lever when i vote! to hell with ANY democrat!

Name ONE thing Bush did to combat Al Qaeda in those 8 months.

Just ONE.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
who's to "blame"?

That is the focus of 1/2 of the commision, and the Bush haters...

Have any of you considered what different path we would have walked if the
attacks had been simaltaneous. We have read of the 2nd wave of attacks al quaeda
had planned...

Sure could have turned our world upside-down 100 fold to what it was..

We would probably still be picking up the pieces...

Damn sure wouldn't be pointing fingers and assigning blame
to people for not preventing it in the first place...

3 to 4 thousand isn't enough to piss some people off, I guess..

What number would it take? 10 thousand? 40 thousand? 100 thousand?

What is your threshhold?

What number would it take to unite us?

I am afraid we will find out..

I am a religious racist, (1) would have been enough for me to turn the
entire continent of asia upsidedown....

This message authorized by the Bush Apologists of America (BAA). Passing the buck since 1980.

We are pissed off. We are pissed off at Al-Qaeda for attacking. We are also pissed off at Dubya for sitting on his hands before 9-11. We are pissed off at Dubya for exploiting 9-11 to attack Iraq. We are pissed off that Dubya obstructed the 9-11 investigation and refuses to accept any responsibility. We are pissed off that ignorant Bush fanboys excuse everything he did and attack anyone who questions their beloved ruler.

 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: Ldir

Hardly. Did you read it? It is another Bush fanboy blog blowing smoke and mirrors. All it proves is if you circle jerk too much you go blind. You are blind to the truth.
And just WTF is the "Center for American Progress". If you guessed "left-wing propaganda organization", you guessed correctly.

Thanks for playing. Please try again.

Be that as it may. They got their facts right. You are too blind to see this. Please return to your circle bleat.


-------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over their own eyes since 1980
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
We are pissed off. We are pissed off at Al-Qaeda for attacking. We are also pissed off at Dubya for sitting on his hands before 9-11. We are pissed off at Dubya for exploiting 9-11 to attack Iraq. We are pissed off that Dubya obstructed the 9-11 investigation and refuses to accept any responsibility. We are pissed off that ignorant Bush fanboys excuse everything he did and attack anyone who questions their beloved ruler.
Apparently no hard feelings about Mrs. Daschle the airline lobbyist gutting the Gore Commision recommendations, no choice words about the Clinton appointee who created "Express Visa" for the Saudi terrorists to utilize, apparently no condemnation of the ACLU/Lawyers/Democrats for neutering the CIA and creating barriers between the FBI and the CIA, apparently no criticism of the Congress for passing these laws, and apparently nothing much bad to say about Clinton watching Al Qaeda grow for 8 years on his watch, and doing nothing material to stop them.

As for Iraq..you should read former Sen. Bob Kerrey's comments on the flor of the Senate in this regard...Dr. Rice alluded to his comments during her testimony, calling them "brilliant" here is what he said on the floor of the Senate, on October 19, 2000.

here is the speech:
Kerrey?s Speech on Iraq
Condi Rice schooled Kerrey today, citing Kerrey?s own words supporting regime change in Iraq as a response to the attack on the Cole. I don?t know for sure if this is what she was talking about, but here is what he said on the floor of the Senate, on October 19, 2000. Now, you know how Congress? site works. I cannot link to it, and indeed I am not really sure how to cite it. I will tell you how I searched for it. I typed in ?kerrey U.S.S. Cole Iraq? and, if you look in the right year, it should come up very quickly. It says the page number is S10753, and its in the 106th Congress.

But like I said, I am only assuming this is what she is referring to. Interestingly, it kinda blows a hole in the theory that al Qaeda and Iraq were mortal enemies, since he makes a persuasive argument that the purpose of the Cole attack is to harm our ability to keep Iraq contained.

Anyway, the rest is simply quoting from the record. No more commentary. Enjoy:

Mr. KERREY . Mr. President, at Pier 12 in the Norfolk Navy Base, along with the Presiding Officer in Norfolk, VA, I joined 10,000 others to mourn and to pay our respects to the families of 17 U.S. Navy sailors who were killed or who are missing following the explosion that ripped into the portside of U.S.S. Cole as she was preparing to set anchor in the Yemen Port of Aden.

It was one week ago today at fifteen past midnight that a routine port call became a violent killing of 17 Americans, the wounding of 34 more, and the disabling of a billion dollar destroyer.

In attendance at the ceremony to honor those lost on the Cole were many Members of Congress, Attorney General Janet Reno, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, the Secretaries of Defense and the Navy, and the uniformed commanders of the Navy and the Marine Corps. In a gesture of Yemen's cooperation, their Ambassador to the United States, Abdulwahab A. al-Hajjri, was also present.

As I sat and listened to the powerful words of President Clinton, Secretary of Defense Cohen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Shelton, and others, I looked at the solemn faces of the Naval officers and enlisted men who stood on the decks of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Dwight D. Eisenhower and two of the Cole 's sister ships, the destroyers Ross and McFaul and wondered how long the unity we felt would last? How long would the moving stories of the lives of these 17 young Americans bind us together?

Their stories define what makes America such a unique place. President Clinton captured it perfectly:

[A.W.: he appears to be quoting Clinton, starting here, but it is not well indicated in the record.] In the names and faces of those we lost and mourn, the world sees our nation's greatest strength. People in uniform rooted in every race, creed and region on the face of the earth, yet bound together by a common commitment to freedom and a common pride in being American.

They were bound together by other common characteristics. Sixteen were enlisted men and women; the lone officer was an ensign who had served more than a decade in the enlisted ranks. None were college graduates, though many saw the Navy as a means to that end. They were from small towns and Navy towns, the places where patriotism burns bright and crowds still form to remember on Memorial Day and Veterans Day.

[A.W.: This appears to be where he stops quoting Clinton.] I watched young widows and brothers and fathers cry without restraint or shame when President Clinton read the rollcall of the fallen heros. Sadness gripped me as once more I thought of lives that ended too soon knowing their dreams would not now come true.

Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Clark appropriately reminded us that risk is a part of all sailors' lives. When going out to sea, there is never certainty of a joyous homecoming. Death is a frequent visitor in Navy households. Loss is never a complete surprise.

However, in this instance it was not the unpredictable ways of the ocean or the violence of a storm that ended these American lives. No, in this instance the killer was a highly sophisticated, high-explosive device set and detonated by as yet unknown villains.

There were words from our leaders that addressed the anger we feel in the aftermath of this tragedy. From President Clinton: ``To those who attacked them we say: you will not find a safe harbor. We will find you, and justice will prevail.'' From Secretary of Defense Cohen: ``This is an act of pure evil.'' And from General Shelton: ``They should never forget that America's memory is long and our reach longer.''

Yet, this desire for vengeance is as misplaced as it is understandable. Vengeance is one of the things a terrorist hopes to provoke. Such acts of vengeance--especially when carried out by the United States of America--are bound to provoke sympathy for our enemies. If we are to give meaning to the sacrifice of these men and women, we must take care not to allow the bitter feelings to govern our action.

While we await the results of a combined U.S.-Yemeni effort to find out who was responsible for this attack, let me challenge the idea that the attack on the Cole was a pure act of terrorism or criminal action. In my opinion it is not. In my opinion, it is a part of a military strategy designed to defeat the United States as we attempt to accomplish a serious and vital mission.

This is the third in a series of violent attacks on the United States dating back to the car bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia at 10 pm, on Tuesday, June 25, 1996, that killed 19 United States Air Force Airmen and wounded hundreds more. The second attack occurred on August 7, 1998, when U.S. Embassies in Dar es-Salam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya were bombed. These attacks wounded more than 5,000 and killed 224, including twelve Americans who were killed in the Nairobi blast.

I believe all three of these incidents should be considered as connected to our containment policy against Saddam Hussein's Iraq . The Cole was heading for the Persian Gulf to enforce an embargo that was authorized by the United Nations Security Council following the end of the Gulf War in 1991.

In order to evaluate this incident and put it in its larger context, I had to re-learn the details of the action of Gulf War and its aftermath. The Gulf War began on August 8, 1990, when United States aircraft, their pilots, and their crews arrived in Saudi Arabia. Two days earlier the Saudi King Fahd had asked Secretary of Defense Cheney for help. Saudi Arabia was afraid that Iraq's August 2 invasion of Kuwait would continue south. Without our help they could not defend themselves. Desert Shield--a military operation planned to protect Saudi Arabia--began.

At that time, General Norman Schwarzkopf was Commander-in-Chief of Southern Command. On September 8, 1990, he ordered Army planners to begin designing a ground offensive to liberate Kuwait. His instructions from President Bush were to plan for success. We were not going to repeat the mistakes of the Vietnam War. On November 8th, President Bush announced that a decision had been made to double the size of our forces in Saudi Arabia. On November 29, the UN Security Council voted to authorize the use of ``all means necessary'' to drive Iraq from occupied Kuwait. On January 12, 1991, Congress authorized the President to use American forces in the Desert Storm campaign.

The campaign began at 2:38 AM on January 17 with Apache helicopters equipped with anti-tank ordnance. The next day Iraq launched Scud missiles against Israel. The first U.S. air attacks, flown out of Turkey, were launched and were continued until February 24 when the ground war began. The ground war was executed with swift precision and was ended at 8 AM on February 28 when a cease fire was declared.

The purpose of the Gulf War--to liberate the people of Kuwait--had been accomplished in an impressive and exhilarating display of U.S. power and ability to assemble an alliance of like-minded nations. Afterwards, Iraq was weakened but still led by Saddam Hussein. In their weakened state, they agreed to allow unprecedented inspections of their country to ensure they did not possess the capability of producing weapons of mass destruction. The United Nations Security Council voted unanimously to impose an economic embargo on Iraq until the inspections verified that Iraq's chemical, biological, and nuclear programs were destroyed.

Contrary to popular belief, the military strategy to deal with Iraq did not end with the February 28, 1991, cease fire. It has continued ever since with considerable cost and risk to U.S. forces. In addition to the embargo, the United States and British pilots have maintained no-fly zones in northern and southern Iraq designed to protect the Kurds and Shia from becoming victims of Saddam Hussein's wrath. The purpose of both the embargo and the no-fly zones is to ``contain'' Iraq so that Saddam Hussein does not become a threat in the region again.

Unfortunately, this containment object was doomed from the beginning. And while we have begun to change our policy from containment to replacement of the dictator, change has been too slow. The slowness and uncertainty of change has increased the risk for every military person who receives orders to carry out some part of the containment mission.

There are three reasons to abandon the containment policy and aggressively pursue the replacement of Saddam Hussein with a democratically elected government. First, it has not worked; Saddam Hussein has violated the spirit and intent of UN Security Council Resolutions. Second, he is a growing threat to our allies in the region. Third, he is a growing threat to the liberty and freedom of 20 million people living in Iraq .

As to the first reason, under the terms of paragraph Eight (8) of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 which passed on April 3, 1991, Iraq accepted the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless of its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons program. Under the terms of paragraph Nine (9), Iraq was to submit to the Secretary-General ``within fifteen days of the adoption of the present resolution, a declaration of the locations, amounts and types of all items specified in paragraph 8 and agree to urgent, on-site inspection'' as specified in the resolution.

From the get-go, Saddam Hussein began to violate this resolution. Over the past decade, he has slowly but surely moved to a point where today no weapons inspectors are allowed inside his country. As a consequence, he has been able to re-build much of his previous capability and is once again able to harass his neighbors. All knowledgeable observers view Iraq's threat to the region as becoming larger not smaller.

As to the third reason--his treatment of his own people--there is no worse violator of human rights than Saddam Hussein. The people of Iraq are terrorized almost constantly into compliance with his policies. His jails are among the worst in the world. His appeal for ending sanctions on account of the damage the embargo is doing to his people rings hollow as the food and medicine purchased under the Oil-for-Food Program goes undistributed. Desperately needed supplies sitting in Iraqi warehouses while construction continues on lavish new palaces demonstrates that Saddam Hussein has no real interest in the welfare of his people. Rather, he maintains their misery as means to make political points.

If these reasons do not persuade, consider what happened in the other two cases when the United States was attacked. In 1996 we sent an FBI team to Saudia Arabia to investigate Khobar Towers. The investigation led to improving security on other embassies but no other action was taken. In time we have forgotten Khobar. In 1998 following the attack on our embassies in East Africa we sent Tomahawk missiles to bomb a chemical factory in Khartoum, Sudan, and Osama Bin Laden's training compound in Afghanistan. Neither had the decisive impact we sought and may--in the case of Sudan--have been counterproductive.

For all these reasons, I hope we will direct the anger and desire for vengeance we feel away from Yemen and towards Saddam Hussein. I hope we will begin to plan a military strategy with our allies that will lead to his removal and replacement with a democratically elected government. This would allow us to end our northern and southern no-fly zone operations, remove our forces from Saudi Arabia, and cease the naval patrols of the Persian Gulf. I can think of no more fitting tribute to the 17 sailors lost on-board the Cole than completing our mission and helping the Iraqi people achieve freedom and democracy.

gosh? are you "pissed off" at former Sen Kerrey now?

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Not sure what Kerrey was thinking in that speech. The Khobar Towers attack was traced to Al Qaeda supported by Iran. The USS Cole was assumed to have been Al Qaeda from the start and Hussein never entered the picture. The CIA confirmed it was Al Qaeda on Jan. 27, 2001 yet Bush did NOTHING about it. They didn't want to embolden Al Qaeda by attacking those responsible.

Well, doing nothing did even worse! It showed we could be attacked with impunity!
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
We are pissed off. We are pissed off at Al-Qaeda for attacking. We are also pissed off at Dubya for sitting on his hands before 9-11. We are pissed off at Dubya for exploiting 9-11 to attack Iraq. We are pissed off that Dubya obstructed the 9-11 investigation and refuses to accept any responsibility. We are pissed off that ignorant Bush fanboys excuse everything he did and attack anyone who questions their beloved ruler.
Apparently no hard feelings about Mrs. Daschle the airline lobbyist gutting the Gore Commision recommendations, no choice words about the Clinton appointee who created "Express Visa" for the Saudi terrorists to utilize, apparently no condemnation of the ACLU/Lawyers/Democrats for neutering the CIA and creating barriers between the FBI and the CIA, apparently no criticism of the Congress for passing these laws, and apparently nothing much bad to say about Clinton watching Al Qaeda grow for 8 years on his watch, and doing nothing material to stop them.

As for Iraq..you should read former Sen. Bob Kerrey's comments on the flor of the Senate in this regard...Dr. Rice alluded to his comments during her testimony, calling them "brilliant" here is what he said on the floor of the Senate, on October 19, 2000.

here is the speech:
Kerrey?s Speech on Iraq
Condi Rice schooled Kerrey today, citing Kerrey?s own words supporting regime change in Iraq as a response to the attack on the Cole. I don?t know for sure if this is what she was talking about, but here is what he said on the floor of the Senate, on October 19, 2000. Now, you know how Congress? site works. I cannot link to it, and indeed I am not really sure how to cite it. I will tell you how I searched for it. I typed in ?kerrey U.S.S. Cole Iraq? and, if you look in the right year, it should come up very quickly. It says the page number is S10753, and its in the 106th Congress.

But like I said, I am only assuming this is what she is referring to. Interestingly, it kinda blows a hole in the theory that al Qaeda and Iraq were mortal enemies, since he makes a persuasive argument that the purpose of the Cole attack is to harm our ability to keep Iraq contained.

Anyway, the rest is simply quoting from the record. No more commentary. Enjoy:

Mr. KERREY . Mr. President, at Pier 12 in the Norfolk Navy Base, along with the Presiding Officer in Norfolk, VA, I joined 10,000 others to mourn and to pay our respects to the families of 17 U.S. Navy sailors who were killed or who are missing following the explosion that ripped into the portside of U.S.S. Cole as she was preparing to set anchor in the Yemen Port of Aden.

It was one week ago today at fifteen past midnight that a routine port call became a violent killing of 17 Americans, the wounding of 34 more, and the disabling of a billion dollar destroyer.

In attendance at the ceremony to honor those lost on the Cole were many Members of Congress, Attorney General Janet Reno, National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, the Secretaries of Defense and the Navy, and the uniformed commanders of the Navy and the Marine Corps. In a gesture of Yemen's cooperation, their Ambassador to the United States, Abdulwahab A. al-Hajjri, was also present.

As I sat and listened to the powerful words of President Clinton, Secretary of Defense Cohen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Shelton, and others, I looked at the solemn faces of the Naval officers and enlisted men who stood on the decks of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Dwight D. Eisenhower and two of the Cole 's sister ships, the destroyers Ross and McFaul and wondered how long the unity we felt would last? How long would the moving stories of the lives of these 17 young Americans bind us together?

Their stories define what makes America such a unique place. President Clinton captured it perfectly:

[A.W.: he appears to be quoting Clinton, starting here, but it is not well indicated in the record.] In the names and faces of those we lost and mourn, the world sees our nation's greatest strength. People in uniform rooted in every race, creed and region on the face of the earth, yet bound together by a common commitment to freedom and a common pride in being American.

They were bound together by other common characteristics. Sixteen were enlisted men and women; the lone officer was an ensign who had served more than a decade in the enlisted ranks. None were college graduates, though many saw the Navy as a means to that end. They were from small towns and Navy towns, the places where patriotism burns bright and crowds still form to remember on Memorial Day and Veterans Day.

[A.W.: This appears to be where he stops quoting Clinton.] I watched young widows and brothers and fathers cry without restraint or shame when President Clinton read the rollcall of the fallen heros. Sadness gripped me as once more I thought of lives that ended too soon knowing their dreams would not now come true.

Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Clark appropriately reminded us that risk is a part of all sailors' lives. When going out to sea, there is never certainty of a joyous homecoming. Death is a frequent visitor in Navy households. Loss is never a complete surprise.

However, in this instance it was not the unpredictable ways of the ocean or the violence of a storm that ended these American lives. No, in this instance the killer was a highly sophisticated, high-explosive device set and detonated by as yet unknown villains.

There were words from our leaders that addressed the anger we feel in the aftermath of this tragedy. From President Clinton: ``To those who attacked them we say: you will not find a safe harbor. We will find you, and justice will prevail.'' From Secretary of Defense Cohen: ``This is an act of pure evil.'' And from General Shelton: ``They should never forget that America's memory is long and our reach longer.''

Yet, this desire for vengeance is as misplaced as it is understandable. Vengeance is one of the things a terrorist hopes to provoke. Such acts of vengeance--especially when carried out by the United States of America--are bound to provoke sympathy for our enemies. If we are to give meaning to the sacrifice of these men and women, we must take care not to allow the bitter feelings to govern our action.

While we await the results of a combined U.S.-Yemeni effort to find out who was responsible for this attack, let me challenge the idea that the attack on the Cole was a pure act of terrorism or criminal action. In my opinion it is not. In my opinion, it is a part of a military strategy designed to defeat the United States as we attempt to accomplish a serious and vital mission.

This is the third in a series of violent attacks on the United States dating back to the car bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia at 10 pm, on Tuesday, June 25, 1996, that killed 19 United States Air Force Airmen and wounded hundreds more. The second attack occurred on August 7, 1998, when U.S. Embassies in Dar es-Salam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya were bombed. These attacks wounded more than 5,000 and killed 224, including twelve Americans who were killed in the Nairobi blast.

I believe all three of these incidents should be considered as connected to our containment policy against Saddam Hussein's Iraq . The Cole was heading for the Persian Gulf to enforce an embargo that was authorized by the United Nations Security Council following the end of the Gulf War in 1991.

In order to evaluate this incident and put it in its larger context, I had to re-learn the details of the action of Gulf War and its aftermath. The Gulf War began on August 8, 1990, when United States aircraft, their pilots, and their crews arrived in Saudi Arabia. Two days earlier the Saudi King Fahd had asked Secretary of Defense Cheney for help. Saudi Arabia was afraid that Iraq's August 2 invasion of Kuwait would continue south. Without our help they could not defend themselves. Desert Shield--a military operation planned to protect Saudi Arabia--began.

At that time, General Norman Schwarzkopf was Commander-in-Chief of Southern Command. On September 8, 1990, he ordered Army planners to begin designing a ground offensive to liberate Kuwait. His instructions from President Bush were to plan for success. We were not going to repeat the mistakes of the Vietnam War. On November 8th, President Bush announced that a decision had been made to double the size of our forces in Saudi Arabia. On November 29, the UN Security Council voted to authorize the use of ``all means necessary'' to drive Iraq from occupied Kuwait. On January 12, 1991, Congress authorized the President to use American forces in the Desert Storm campaign.

The campaign began at 2:38 AM on January 17 with Apache helicopters equipped with anti-tank ordnance. The next day Iraq launched Scud missiles against Israel. The first U.S. air attacks, flown out of Turkey, were launched and were continued until February 24 when the ground war began. The ground war was executed with swift precision and was ended at 8 AM on February 28 when a cease fire was declared.

The purpose of the Gulf War--to liberate the people of Kuwait--had been accomplished in an impressive and exhilarating display of U.S. power and ability to assemble an alliance of like-minded nations. Afterwards, Iraq was weakened but still led by Saddam Hussein. In their weakened state, they agreed to allow unprecedented inspections of their country to ensure they did not possess the capability of producing weapons of mass destruction. The United Nations Security Council voted unanimously to impose an economic embargo on Iraq until the inspections verified that Iraq's chemical, biological, and nuclear programs were destroyed.

Contrary to popular belief, the military strategy to deal with Iraq did not end with the February 28, 1991, cease fire. It has continued ever since with considerable cost and risk to U.S. forces. In addition to the embargo, the United States and British pilots have maintained no-fly zones in northern and southern Iraq designed to protect the Kurds and Shia from becoming victims of Saddam Hussein's wrath. The purpose of both the embargo and the no-fly zones is to ``contain'' Iraq so that Saddam Hussein does not become a threat in the region again.

Unfortunately, this containment object was doomed from the beginning. And while we have begun to change our policy from containment to replacement of the dictator, change has been too slow. The slowness and uncertainty of change has increased the risk for every military person who receives orders to carry out some part of the containment mission.

There are three reasons to abandon the containment policy and aggressively pursue the replacement of Saddam Hussein with a democratically elected government. First, it has not worked; Saddam Hussein has violated the spirit and intent of UN Security Council Resolutions. Second, he is a growing threat to our allies in the region. Third, he is a growing threat to the liberty and freedom of 20 million people living in Iraq .

As to the first reason, under the terms of paragraph Eight (8) of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 which passed on April 3, 1991, Iraq accepted the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless of its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons program. Under the terms of paragraph Nine (9), Iraq was to submit to the Secretary-General ``within fifteen days of the adoption of the present resolution, a declaration of the locations, amounts and types of all items specified in paragraph 8 and agree to urgent, on-site inspection'' as specified in the resolution.

From the get-go, Saddam Hussein began to violate this resolution. Over the past decade, he has slowly but surely moved to a point where today no weapons inspectors are allowed inside his country. As a consequence, he has been able to re-build much of his previous capability and is once again able to harass his neighbors. All knowledgeable observers view Iraq's threat to the region as becoming larger not smaller.

As to the third reason--his treatment of his own people--there is no worse violator of human rights than Saddam Hussein. The people of Iraq are terrorized almost constantly into compliance with his policies. His jails are among the worst in the world. His appeal for ending sanctions on account of the damage the embargo is doing to his people rings hollow as the food and medicine purchased under the Oil-for-Food Program goes undistributed. Desperately needed supplies sitting in Iraqi warehouses while construction continues on lavish new palaces demonstrates that Saddam Hussein has no real interest in the welfare of his people. Rather, he maintains their misery as means to make political points.

If these reasons do not persuade, consider what happened in the other two cases when the United States was attacked. In 1996 we sent an FBI team to Saudia Arabia to investigate Khobar Towers. The investigation led to improving security on other embassies but no other action was taken. In time we have forgotten Khobar. In 1998 following the attack on our embassies in East Africa we sent Tomahawk missiles to bomb a chemical factory in Khartoum, Sudan, and Osama Bin Laden's training compound in Afghanistan. Neither had the decisive impact we sought and may--in the case of Sudan--have been counterproductive.

For all these reasons, I hope we will direct the anger and desire for vengeance we feel away from Yemen and towards Saddam Hussein. I hope we will begin to plan a military strategy with our allies that will lead to his removal and replacement with a democratically elected government. This would allow us to end our northern and southern no-fly zone operations, remove our forces from Saudi Arabia, and cease the naval patrols of the Persian Gulf. I can think of no more fitting tribute to the 17 sailors lost on-board the Cole than completing our mission and helping the Iraqi people achieve freedom and democracy.

gosh? are you "pissed off" at former Sen Kerrey now?

Wow- now that is even more juicy than what Rice led us to believe yesterday...

CkG
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Not sure what Kerrey was thinking in that speech. The Khobar Towers attack was traced to Al Qaeda supported by Iran. The USS Cole was assumed to have been Al Qaeda from the start and Hussein never entered the picture. The CIA confirmed it was Al Qaeda on Jan. 27, 2001 yet Bush did NOTHING about it. They didn't want to embolden Al Qaeda by attacking those responsible.

Well, doing nothing did even worse! It showed we could be attacked with impunity!

OK smart guy, lets say Bush did attack Afghanistan to immediately remove Al Qaeda and the Taliban. What do you think the left would have been saying about Bush's "cowboy" look at the world? And then, even IF Bush had attacked Afghanistan - do you think that would have stopped 9/11? No - they were already here and planning/training. Now who & what would you and the left be blaming 9/11 on today if Bush would have gone into Afghanistan before 9/11? That's right - you'd blame Bush for "provoking" the terrorists.
rolleye.gif
So yeah, it gets a bit tiring to hear the same tired BS from the left when no matter what Bush has or supposedly should have done wouldn't have been right in their eyes. Just more intellectually dishonest political BS from the left - but what's new...

CkG
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
why do you think Dr. Rice claimed she was "blown away" by Kerrey's statement//it is a respected Democrat with a peerless war record, a true patriot...

who provides a strageic link between AlQaeda, Iraq, Saddam Hussein, the "upcoming" 9/11 event (taken in context of the previous attacks by Al Qaeda), and the concept of intervention within iraq and the deposition of Saddam!!!

complete and utter vindication of the Bush approach by a Democrat..

Boo Ya!
 

operaman1

Senior member
Mar 21, 2004
570
0
76
Hello all,

I thought I would weigh in on this. First of all, I will say that I am conservative in nature, but my first vote almost always goes to the Libertarians. I tend to vote third party in general. Now I will move onto the points to be made.

What is most upsetting to me is the witch hunt that the panel for 9/11 is now on. It's not simply good enough to try to finds solutions to prevent future terrorist attacks. No, there must be blame. What does it all boil down to? It boils down to partisan politics on both sides.

Bill Clinton had a chance to kill bin Laden and failed to do so. Do I blame him? No. It's also ridiculous to lay blame at Bush for 9/11. This was a horrible tragedy that occurred. To lay blame for the sake partisan politics is wrong. Do I think this is a Democratic ploy to undermine Bush's title as tough on security and abroad: absolutely. I will get further into this with two examples.

When the Republicans went after Clinton for his affair, it really got to me. Did Clinton break the law under oath? Yes. Did he commit a felony? Technically, yes. What it did though was call into question the honor of the presidency, reduced his effectiveness as our leader, and made us the laughing stock of the civilized world. All this was to score points for the Republican Party.

As for the Democrats, they have felt cheated since the Gore election failure even though a full recount showed Bush had won, even if by a slim margin. Besides, the fact is that the Florida Supreme Court overstepped its bounds to begin with. The Supreme Court of the Nation did what it should have done: Struck down their ruling. The Florida Supreme Court was doing what is typical of Liberals and what is wrong: legislation from the bench. Their job is to enforce laws. Not make them, period. I don't care what their personal beliefs are. They are to enforce and judge based on laws we have in place. And spare me the law from 1825 pat I am a college professor liberal answer to justify some of their rulings. It is pure B.S. Creation of laws is done by the legislative branch not the judicial branch. If we lose the checks and balances of our government we are lost regardless if I like the candidate elected or not. What is funny is I am sure if the shoe had been on the other foot and Gore won, Republicans would be bitching about it and Democrats would say the ruling from the Supreme Court was fair. So there you go.

The worst thing for me as a third-party viewer is to watch the Bush-haters. Eight years ago it was the "Clinton-haters" in the Republican Party. I find it ironic when Clinton goes against the U.N. and sends troops abroad that Republicans don't like it, and now when we go into Iraq under Bush the Democrats don't like it. What gives? Is it that important that somebody's party wins? What was done was correct and the right thing to do regardless of your viewpoint. If you believe peace and love will abide and war is wrong move to Switzerland. They are neutral and won?t have war. Oh, by the way, get ready to have to have a gun, because by law every able-bodied man in Switzerland is to have a rifle and they do check that you have it in working order. So much for gun control huh?

Worst of all the Democrats in their "I hate Bush Campaign" have insured they will lose. John Kerry is a Republican in Democrat's clothing. His wife and he are worth in excess of a half billion dollars. That will be a hard sell for the common man. I am more likely to believe Bill Gates is for the common man than Kerry. Ironically one of his campaign issues is that jobs are going overseas because of the Bush Administration's Policies. He is pretty screwed when the Bush Campaign brings up the facts that HIS WIFE'S companies have shipped over a bunch of jobs to Europe and abroad in order to fatten their profit margins at the expense of union jobs. So in essence the common man has no one to vote for.

John Edwards was a strong Southern Democrat who could have hit Bush at his power base in the South. He also was a moderate with liberal leanings more tailored to what Democrats believe. The fact that most Democrats agree with Edward's views more than Kerry's and yet they voted for Kerry sums up their desperation to get anyone other than Bush in office. With Nayder running it insures Kerry's defeat. Bush will win, because essentially, anyone to the left will vote for Nayder if they vote what they believe. And with Bush and Kerry essentially similar on issues when you get right down to it, why vote Bush out? Plus, Democrats had the East Coast and New England area sown up before the race even began. John Kerry will not win a single Southern State and you have to win something in a part of the south if you want to win the presidency.

As for me, give me Bush or Kerry. They are both for big business, and neither will raise taxes (if Democrats buy Kerry being for the common man they are pretty dumb given his net worth and past voting record in the Senate: you guys did check that right?). So I thank you Democrats for giving me and other independents what America should always have: a guaranteed conservative in the White House.
 

operaman1

Senior member
Mar 21, 2004
570
0
76
Hello all,

I thought I would weigh in on this. First of all, I will say that I am conservative in nature, but my first vote almost always goes to the Libertarians. I tend to vote third party in general. Now I will move onto the points to be made.

What is most upsetting to me is the witch hunt that the panel for 9/11 is now on. It's not simply good enough to try to finds solutions to prevent future terrorist attacks. No, there must be blame. What does it all boil down to? It boils down to partisan politics on both sides.

Bill Clinton had a chance to kill bin Laden and failed to do so. Do I blame him? No. It's also ridiculous to lay blame at Bush for 9/11. This was a horrible tragedy that occurred. To lay blame for the sake partisan politics is wrong. Do I think this is a Democratic ploy to undermine Bush's title as tough on security and abroad: absolutely. I will get further into this with two examples.

When the Republicans went after Clinton for his affair, it really got to me. Did Clinton break the law under oath? Yes. Did he commit a felony? Technically, yes. What it did though was call into question the honor of the presidency, reduced his effectiveness as our leader, and made us the laughing stock of the civilized world. All this was to score points for the Republican Party.

As for the Democrats, they have felt cheated since the Gore election failure even though a full recount showed Bush had won, even if by a slim margin. Besides, the fact is that the Florida Supreme Court overstepped its bounds to begin with. The Supreme Court of the Nation did what it should have done: Struck down their ruling. The Florida Supreme Court was doing what is typical of Liberals and what is wrong: legislation from the bench. Their job is to enforce laws. Not make them, period. I don't care what their personal beliefs are. They are to enforce and judge based on laws we have in place. And spare me the law from 1825 pat I am a college professor liberal answer to justify some of their rulings. It is pure B.S. Creation of laws is done by the legislative branch not the judicial branch. If we lose the checks and balances of our government we are lost regardless if I like the candidate elected or not. What is funny is I am sure if the shoe had been on the other foot and Gore won, Republicans would be bitching about it and Democrats would say the ruling from the Supreme Court was fair. So there you go.

The worst thing for me as a third-party viewer is to watch the Bush-haters. Eight years ago it was the "Clinton-haters" in the Republican Party. I find it ironic when Clinton goes against the U.N. and sends troops abroad that Republicans don't like it, and now when we go into Iraq under Bush the Democrats don't like it. What gives? Is it that important that somebody's party wins? What was done was correct and the right thing to do regardless of your viewpoint. If you believe peace and love will abide and war is wrong move to Switzerland. They are neutral and won?t have war. Oh, by the way, get ready to have to have a gun, because by law every able-bodied man in Switzerland is to have a rifle and they do check that you have it in working order. So much for gun control huh?

Worst of all the Democrats in their "I hate Bush Campaign" have insured they will lose. John Kerry is a Republican in Democrat's clothing. His wife and he are worth in excess of a half billion dollars. That will be a hard sell for the common man. I am more likely to believe Bill Gates is for the common man than Kerry. Ironically one of his campaign issues is that jobs are going overseas because of the Bush Administration's Policies. He is pretty screwed when the Bush Campaign brings up the facts that HIS WIFE'S companies have shipped over a bunch of jobs to Europe and abroad in order to fatten their profit margins at the expense of union jobs. So in essence the common man has no one to vote for.

John Edwards was a strong Southern Democrat who could have hit Bush at his power base in the South. He also was a moderate with liberal leanings more tailored to what Democrats believe. The fact that most Democrats agree with Edward's views more than Kerry's and yet they voted for Kerry sums up their desperation to get anyone other than Bush in office. With Nayder running it insures Kerry's defeat. Bush will win, because essentially, anyone to the left will vote for Nayder if they vote what they believe. And with Bush and Kerry essentially similar on issues when you get right down to it, why vote Bush out? Plus, Democrats had the East Coast and New England area sown up before the race even began. John Kerry will not win a single Southern State and you have to win something in a part of the south if you want to win the presidency.

As for me, give me Bush or Kerry. They are both for big business, and neither will raise taxes (if Democrats buy Kerry being for the common man they are pretty dumb given his net worth and past voting record in the Senate: you guys did check that right?). So I thank you Democrats for giving me and other independents what America should always have: a guaranteed conservative in the White House.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Not sure what Kerrey was thinking in that speech. The Khobar Towers attack was traced to Al Qaeda supported by Iran. The USS Cole was assumed to have been Al Qaeda from the start and Hussein never entered the picture. The CIA confirmed it was Al Qaeda on Jan. 27, 2001 yet Bush did NOTHING about it. They didn't want to embolden Al Qaeda by attacking those responsible.

Well, doing nothing did even worse! It showed we could be attacked with impunity!
More from Bob Kerrey on Iraq, November 14, 2001:

MR. PETERSON: Let?s move to another subject. (Laughter.)

There?s a lot of talk about how we ought to take on Iraq, and that we think they?ve got biological weapons, and we think that they have them weaponized, and they may have nuclear materials. But what?s less clear to me is what we mean exactly by ?taking on Iraq,? particularly if they don't do anything overt; particularly if we don?t demonstrate that they were involved in September 11th.

So can you give me some scenarios that you think are sensible, that put some meat on the bones of how we?re going to take on Iraq? What do we mean by this?

MR. KERREY: Invade Iraq and liberate 24 million Iraqis. That?s what I?d do.

MR. RUDMAN: Well I tell you Pete -- (Laughter and applause.)

MR. PETERSON: Bob, you?re just filled with ambiguity tonight.

MR. KERREY: Well, I just --

(Laughter.)

-- look, I mean we spend at least $2 billion a year on a military strategy right now. We?ve got a no-fly zone in the north, a no-fly zone in the south, and guess what? bin Laden?s first attack on Khobar Towers in 1996 occurred because we had military forces in Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm.

So they?re there to contain Saddam Hussein. We have a containment policy in place, we?ve had it in place since 1991, and, you know, again, just sort of measured by the success -- it has reduced Iraq?s capability and it?s reduced the size of the threat but, as long as he?s organizing and loose in our backfield we?ve got problems.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
When you cut through all the 'He' did this 'She' said that, 'The President' was there is still one big glaring thing . . .
there was, and still as a huge failure to communicate from the bottom up as well as from the top down.
The focal point of where that link or filter existed come to Condoleeza Rice's office.
She was the choke point in information that stopped at her desk and never went forward in either direction.
She in her capacity of the National Security Advisor did not allow information to be passed up to Principals,
and re-delegated it back to lower levels avoiding the chain of custody that should have resolved differences.
She is not technically 'at fault' for 9-11, but in her job as the NSA she was deficient in control of operations.
Guess she really wasn't as smart as other Bushies thought that she was - or were they that much dumber than she ?
 

Romans828

Banned
Feb 14, 2004
525
0
0
What the left is doing for the sake of politcal power is very very sad but will fourtunately be their downfall.

The testimony yesterday went a long way in demonstrating clearly to the American people who is for America and who is not. You lefties are so blinded by your Bush hating you fail to see that MOST of America does not sgare your opinions or hatred of Bush and his administration, yours is a minority view.

The hatred your spewing will only serve to ensure Bush another 4 years because no thinking, rational, American is buying it.

Its completely clear to all reasonable people that 9/11 could not have been prevented under the circumstances and given those same circumstances Mr Bush has done a great job. Go ahead and let your wild anger run wild, flame me, flame Bush.
Root for the factions of hate in Iraq to kill more Americans and innocent Iraqies, your hate for Bush and for the country resounds so loud and so clear.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
gosh? are you "pissed off" at former Sen Kerrey now?

I can be pissed off at many things simultaneously. This includes bleating trolls like you. BAA. BAA. Passing the buck since 1980. BAA.

 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: conjur
They didn't.

Name one thing the Bush administration did to physically attack or dismantle Al Qaeda in any way, prior to 9/11.

Stopped Ashcroft from flying commercially!:disgust:

Sad, but true.

no...not true. the truth is the witch hunt backfired today did'nt it?

according to non other than clarke himself, plans were in fact being "acted upon" in the first 200 days of his administration, plans the previous administation did not begin to enact(AFTER already going through an attack on the WTC in 1993, SEVEN YEARS EARLIER!!!). and clarke not only said this in 2002, he re-iterated it in 2004 by saying "nothing said in 2002 was untrue"...

the simple truth is bush did more in 8 months than clinton did in 8 years but we have the "imprtial" commitee members ben veniste and kerrey get their arse handed to them while doing a bad perry mason imitation ,kerrey did not even apparantly know who he was even talking to! ROFL!!


you dems are trying to milk the blood of 2001 for all it's political worth...and that is what is sad but true.

i used to vote whatever i thought would be the best candidate no matter hwta political party, but come nov 2004 i am going to simply pull the republican lever when i vote! to hell with ANY democrat!

Name ONE thing Bush did to combat Al Qaeda in those 8 months.

Just ONE.


Already posted, no rubuttal..
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Not sure what Kerrey was thinking in that speech. The Khobar Towers attack was traced to Al Qaeda supported by Iran. The USS Cole was assumed to have been Al Qaeda from the start and Hussein never entered the picture. The CIA confirmed it was Al Qaeda on Jan. 27, 2001 yet Bush did NOTHING about it. They didn't want to embolden Al Qaeda by attacking those responsible.

Well, doing nothing did even worse! It showed we could be attacked with impunity!

OK smart guy, lets say Bush did attack Afghanistan to immediately remove Al Qaeda and the Taliban. What do you think the left would have been saying about Bush's "cowboy" look at the world? And then, even IF Bush had attacked Afghanistan - do you think that would have stopped 9/11? No - they were already here and planning/training. Now who & what would you and the left be blaming 9/11 on today if Bush would have gone into Afghanistan before 9/11? That's right - you'd blame Bush for "provoking" the terrorists.
rolleye.gif
So yeah, it gets a bit tiring to hear the same tired BS from the left when no matter what Bush has or supposedly should have done wouldn't have been right in their eyes. Just more intellectually dishonest political BS from the left - but what's new...

CkG
Well, well, well. Look who's being intellectual dishonest himself. First you generate some hypothetical scenario that never happened, then you predict with your crystal ball and/or time machine how the "left" would react in theory to your hypothetical, then you conclude with a patented CkG "Bush can't win no matter what he does." Give me a freaking break.

rolleye.gif
rolleye.gif
rolleye.gif
<-- You just won the "OH NO YOU DIT-ENT" award. Congrats!

edit: mispelled "didn't"
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: conjur
They didn't.

Name one thing the Bush administration did to physically attack or dismantle Al Qaeda in any way, prior to 9/11.


Support of UN security resolution 1363, which specifically links to taliban, and terrorism.
and a mechanism to adress both through reafirming prior resolutions.

And that accomplished what, exactly? Nada. There's nothing in there with any teeth that wasn't already in the works based on work performed during the Clinton Administration and Clarke's Delenda Est plan.

Again, look at my statement. I'll post it here again.

Name one thing the Bush administration did to physically attack or dismantle Al Qaeda in any way, prior to 9/11.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: conjur
And your point is?


Kerry believes Bush is right....

We're not talking about Kerry. We're talking about Kerrey.

And, he doesn't believe Bush is right. The intelligence known then was thought to be truthful but was found out to not be before we went to war. Also, that statement from Kerrey looks entirely like a knee-jerk reaction.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Not sure what Kerrey was thinking in that speech. The Khobar Towers attack was traced to Al Qaeda supported by Iran. The USS Cole was assumed to have been Al Qaeda from the start and Hussein never entered the picture. The CIA confirmed it was Al Qaeda on Jan. 27, 2001 yet Bush did NOTHING about it. They didn't want to embolden Al Qaeda by attacking those responsible.

Well, doing nothing did even worse! It showed we could be attacked with impunity!

OK smart guy, lets say Bush did attack Afghanistan to immediately remove Al Qaeda and the Taliban. What do you think the left would have been saying about Bush's "cowboy" look at the world? And then, even IF Bush had attacked Afghanistan - do you think that would have stopped 9/11? No - they were already here and planning/training. Now who & what would you and the left be blaming 9/11 on today if Bush would have gone into Afghanistan before 9/11? That's right - you'd blame Bush for "provoking" the terrorists.
rolleye.gif
So yeah, it gets a bit tiring to hear the same tired BS from the left when no matter what Bush has or supposedly should have done wouldn't have been right in their eyes. Just more intellectually dishonest political BS from the left - but what's new...

CkG
Well, well, well. Look who's being intellectual dishonest himself. First you generate some hypothetical scenario that never happened, then you predict with your crystal ball and/or time machine how the "left" would react in theory to your hypothetical, then you conclude with a patented CkG "Bush can't win no matter what he does." Give me a freaking break.

rolleye.gif
rolleye.gif
rolleye.gif
<-- You just won the "OH NO YOU DIT-ENT" award. Congrats!

edit: mispelled "didn't"

OK smartass - what exactly do you think the reaction of the left would have been to Bush invading Afghanistan before 9/11 had happened? Do you honestly think they wouldn't have bleated the same BS about Bush being a warmongering cowboy?

We'll stop there so you don't get confused...
one issue at a time ;)

CkG