***OFFICIAL*** Canadians: Federal Election Thread

[desy]

Layton's love of Moronto and total pandering to Bantario is exactly why he is incompetent as a FEDERAL leader.
He should go back to being a counselor for TO if he was so good at it.
I have no problem with soldiers in Afghanistan, you see as a have country we have to step up and do the heavy lifting sometimes needed in the world.
You do remember the invasion of Afghanistan was UN sanctioned right.

Yep Canada is extremely different after almost 3 yrs of conservative rule. . . . . yawn. . . . .

Nato does need to redifine itself, but its a valuable asset in that it has a high degree of miltary professionalism and a vehicle that can meld international cooperation with all the many languages and political influences that shouldn't be lost.

 

[libs0n]

Originally posted by: sandorski
I think we should really consider getting out of NATO. It's mandate pretty much ended with the fall of the Soviet Union and now it's only contributing to re-ignite that very same East-West conflict.

I completely support this policy position. Beware entangling alliances.

As for the election, Harper inherited a 12 Billion dollar surplus and blew it on the gimmicky GST cut. His authoritarian nature is enough for me to be passionately opposed to him, but that he's incompetent too makes this an easy decision. His hypocritical nature does give moments of humour though, like breaking his own fixed election date law.

Also, I support measures that aim to reduce our use of fossil fuels, and taxing carbon emissions is de facto doing that. Carbon energy sources externalize their true cost upon us, and artificially raising their price levels the playing field so that alternate modes of living and energy paths can compete. So, I don't find the green shift repellent at all, the reverse really, a proper and prudent policy initiative that I hope Dion gets the chance to try out.

 

[libs0n]

Originally posted by: Number1

Just for the fun of it, what do you think of our involvement in Afghanistan?

stupid

 

[desy]

Green shift
All of it is offered up as a gimmiky tax break and ZERO dollars are slated to go into the environment
Read up sport
Fixed election dates are for MAJORITY governments, it was never the intention for minority governments

A 12 billion dollar surplus means you were being overtaxed 12 billion dollars too much, do you like paying for bloated and inefectual government?

 

[deftron]

Somehow, one of your candidates got confused and is
running for our Vice Presidental office

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: desy
Green shift
All of it is offered up as a gimmiky tax break and ZERO dollars are slated to go into the environment
Read up sport
Fixed election dates are for MAJORITY governments, it was never the intention for minority governments

A 12 billion dollar surplus means you were being overtaxed 12 billion dollars too much, do you like paying for bloated and inefectual government?

Wow, what a pile. You might have a point regarding Greenshift, but the rest is BS.

 

[desy]

Really conservatives put more against the Federal debt in two yrs than the Libs did in 5, is that a pile? I'll take oonservative money managment over Liberal anyday. I did like what Martin did but that was a long time ago

http://www.canada.com/ottawaci...467f-9045-6f8c44c631d3

Prime Minister Stephen Harper would be perfectly within his rights to ask the Governor General to dissolve Parliament, triggering a general election, on grounds some Commons committees are not functioning, says Ned Franks, one of Canada's parliamentary experts.
Mr. Franks said Mr. Harper did not even need the justification of committee anarchy or dysfunction to go the Governor General. The fixed-date law was an amendment to the Parliament of Canada Act, which says Parliament may be dissolved any time, he said. "Every province in Canada that has fixed election dates also has that exception."
"
His hypocritical nature does give moments of humour though, like breaking his own fixed election date law. "

He's not breaking any laws, thats the real pile, he's acting within the spirit of fixed election dates which from what I've read and I read a lot, minority governments were not the intention of fixed election dates.
Much better was Dion's huffing and blowing about how terrible conservative policies were and constantly threatening to take down the gov't in confidence votes then ABSTAINING from every vote where he could time and again

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: libs0n

Also, I support measures that aim to reduce our use of fossil fuels, and taxing carbon emissions is de facto doing that. Carbon energy sources externalize their true cost upon us, and artificially raising their price levels the playing field so that alternate modes of living and energy paths can compete. So, I don't find the green shift repellent at all, the reverse really, a proper and prudent policy initiative that I hope Dion gets the chance to try out.

You're a green shaft supporter? Good luck with that on election day.

Here is a friendly reminder here just for you:

Canadians set to vote Conservative: poll

Ho and what do you think of our involvement in Afghanistan?

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: desy

somebody stupid wrote: " His hypocritical nature does give moments of humour though, like breaking his own fixed election date law. "

He's not breaking any laws, thats the real pile, he's acting within the spirit of fixed election dates which from what I've read and I read a lot, minority governments were not the intention of fixed election dates.
Much better was Dion's huffing and blowing about how terrible conservative policies were and constantly threatening to take down the gov't in confidence votes then ABSTAINING from every vote where he could time and again

You're absolutely right on this desy. There was no law broken and why should a minority government surrender the right to call an election at any time when the opposition is in a position to do just that.

 

[silverpig]

Man, I really have major issues with everyone this time around. Maybe I should go into politics. I know Aquaman would vote for me.

 

[dennilfloss]

First of all, there's no need for an election except to satisfy Mr. NeoControl Freak. The minority parliament was working exactly like a minority parliament should. Harper claims that it became dysfunctional and inoperative during the summer. Well DUH! It was in remission during the summer, as it is every year.

I have always voted Liberal during federal elections and all but one time in provincial elections (at 19yo I voted Parti Québécois in 1976). To me, Pierre Elliott Trudeau represents what is finest amongst us Canadians: Reason before passion, facts over fiction, rule of law, science, acceptance, diversity, and bilingualism. Maybe my evaluation is tainted by shared values coming from both of us being Jesuit-educated.

I had much respect for the red tories under Stanfield and Clark during the 60s to early 80s. I have but scorn for Harper's neocons. Bunch of cowboy fundies who are trying to americanize and defederalise/decentralise us. Mulroney just did not happen (i.e. I'm trying to forget that despicable time).

I'm scared of the social policies these right-wing nuts might implement if Harper Bizarre ever got a majority. These new Conservatives remind me too much of the Parti Créditiste - Crédit Social) under Réal Caouette, minus the colourful language. There's also the stench of the old Union Nationale being resurrected in essence, coming out of the ground to feed on brains so that legions of antielite zombies would slowly march to the voting booth while repeating endlessly, in a bass monotone, "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge".

 

[Kenazo]

Harper is 'neocon' compared to who? Trudeau? yeah, i can see that, but his policies are far too central to be considered anywhere close to 'neocon' as defined in the US.

 

[Stunt]

Hoping for a Conservative Majority. Harper aside, most Canadians agree with his government's policies; his 5 point plan has been successfully implemented.
1) Federal Accountability Act - passed
2) Justice Reforms - all parties supported in the election, senate is sitting on them
3) Child Care Tax Credit - passed and implemented
4) GST Tax Cut - passed and implemented
5) Health Wait-Time Guarantee - additional funds transferred to the provinces and wait times are dropping significantly

I don't see how Canadians can be upset with a politician who actually keeps his promises for once. Harper has been smeared by the Liberal machine and Canadians don't really know the true Stephen Harper. If Canadians were actually in tune with his background...they'd actually understand how great a leader he is. Here's some little known facts about Stephen Harper...
* Born in Toronto
* Received A+'s with several marks close to 100%
* Received Richview Collegiate Institute's highest graduating average
* Briefly went to University of Toronto
* Completed a Masters of Economics at University of Calgary
* Active member of the Young Liberals Club
* Trudeau's National Energy Program changed his political allegence
* Chief aide to James Hawkes (MP) in the Progressive Conservative party
* Critical of Mulroney's fiscal policies and left the party
* Credited with creating the Reform party platform
* Chief advisor and speech writer for Deborah Grey
* Core member of the Reform party: known as a staunch fiscal conservative, federalist and social moderate
* Initially supported and voted for the gun registry
* Left the Reform party and his seat because of concerns the Reform Party was being hijacked by social conservatives
* Became president of the National Citizen's Coalition: a libertarian-conservative group avocating privatization, tax cuts and government spending cuts
* Served as a political commentator for the CBC
* Was asked to lead the Progressive Conservative Party in 1998
* Oh...and he's a big fan of ice hockey

 

[desy]

I suppose we can look at it this way:
1. Most of Mulroney's policies have survived, and have even been extended, by the Liberals. Free trade, the GST, transfer payment cuts to rich provinces.
2. While Mulroney represented a modest move towards conservativism, it was no where near as radical as Thatcher or Reagan. In particular, "moral issues" like abortion and gay rights continued grow in strength.
3. Mulroney pushed to repair the constitutional mess Trudeau left behind by spearheading the Meech Lake accord and the Charlottetown accord.

Biggest failures include the formation of the Reform Party and the BQ.

Trudeau's record includes:
1. Trudeau repatriated the constitution and brought about the Charter of Rights. He will forever be remembered for this.

But he will also be remembered for:

1. Most of Trudeau's economic policies have been dismantled.
2. He agreed to allow the US to test the cruise missile in Canada.
3. His arrogance towards the West and to Quebec separatists still stings. NEP 'wheat'
4. And the most unforgivable crime of Trudeau: the suspending of civil liberties and the arrest without charge of over 400 during the FLQ crisis.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: sandorski
I think we should really consider getting out of NATO. It's mandate pretty much ended with the fall of the Soviet Union and now it's only contributing to re-ignite that very same East-West conflict.

In a sense NATO protects us from the USA; IMO they may eventually threaten our sovereignty.

If we get out of NATO, then who do you suggest we ally ourselves with? I think a Canada/USA/Mexico alliance makes sense militarily; at least that always worked in the board game "Risk".

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: sandorski
I think we should really consider getting out of NATO. It's mandate pretty much ended with the fall of the Soviet Union and now it's only contributing to re-ignite that very same East-West conflict.

In a sense NATO protects us from the USA; IMO they may eventually threaten our sovereignty.

If we get out of NATO, then who do you suggest we ally ourselves with? I think a Canada/USA/Mexico alliance makes sense militarily; at least that always worked in the board game "Risk".

We can be Allied with many of the current Members of NATO. I just think that NATO itself needs to be nixed as it's suffering from Mission Creep and inventing new reasons to exist. There are those who rail against the UN for various reasons and sometimes they have a point, but NATO is proving to be much worse than the UN IMO.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: desy
Layton's love of Moronto and total pandering to Bantario is exactly why he is incompetent as a FEDERAL leader.
He should go back to being a counselor for TO if he was so good at it.
I have no problem with soldiers in Afghanistan, you see as a have country we have to step up and do the heavy lifting sometimes needed in the world.
You do remember the invasion of Afghanistan was UN sanctioned right.

Yep Canada is extremely different after almost 3 yrs of conservative rule. . . . . yawn. . . . .

Nato does need to redifine itself, but its a valuable asset in that it has a high degree of miltary professionalism and a vehicle that can meld international cooperation with all the many languages and political influences that shouldn't be lost.

I'm a complete pacifist.

A few nutcases perpetrated 9/11. Look at how many more are dieing now as a result of the wars.

WW1 was caused by the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. Look at the trail of carnage that mess left behind.

IMO war is a completely unnecessary part of world culture. I do see a place for revolt against government, however.

The invasion of Afghanistan was fine on the grounds of finding Bin Laden. The problem is that the al-quaida witchhunt that's happening is doing nothing to address the root causes of why people hate the west. The US's aggressive foreign policy was the main "root cause" of 9/11 IMO. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan simply fuel the fire even more.

If they start summarily shooting all Muslims, it's not much different than what happened during the Holocaust. Live and let live, that's my motto.

As for Layton, at least he was an Urban Design PROF; that's a way better educational background than I have seen on a world leader.

I'd actually like to see him as the mayor of Toronto.

 

[desy]

If your a pacifist I can respect that, I won't try to change that opinion
I however believe the world is full of wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs I think history favours this perspective.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Hoping for a Conservative Majority. Harper aside, most Canadians agree with his government's policies; his 5 point plan has been successfully implemented.
1) Federal Accountability Act - passed
2) Justice Reforms - all parties supported in the election, senate is sitting on them
3) Child Care Tax Credit - passed and implemented
4) GST Tax Cut - passed and implemented
5) Health Wait-Time Guarantee - additional funds transferred to the provinces and wait times are dropping significantly

I don't see how Canadians can be upset with a politician who actually keeps his promises for once. Harper has been smeared by the Liberal machine and Canadians don't really know the true Stephen Harper. If Canadians were actually in tune with his background...they'd actually understand how great a leader he is. Here's some little known facts about Stephen Harper...
* Born in Toronto
* Received A+'s with several marks close to 100%
* Received Richview Collegiate Institute's highest graduating average
* Briefly went to University of Toronto
* Completed a Masters of Economics at University of Calgary
* Active member of the Young Liberals Club
* Trudeau's National Energy Program changed his political allegence
* Chief aide to James Hawkes (MP) in the Progressive Conservative party
* Critical of Mulroney's fiscal policies and left the party
* Credited with creating the Reform party platform
* Chief advisor and speech writer for Deborah Grey
* Core member of the Reform party: known as a staunch fiscal conservative, federalist and social moderate
* Initially supported and voted for the gun registry
* Left the Reform party and his seat because of concerns the Reform Party was being hijacked by social conservatives
* Became president of the National Citizen's Coalition: a libertarian-conservative group avocating privatization, tax cuts and government spending cuts
* Served as a political commentator for the CBC
* Was asked to lead the Progressive Conservative Party in 1998
* Oh...and he's a big fan of ice hockey

You're leaving out the fact that there is a 7 year wait for a housing subsidy in Toronto and a huge homeless problem.

Our education system has been under the gun since Harris came in and gutted it.

I agree that Harper has accomplished a lot, but really more needs to be done for the working poor and for the environment. What I think would be great would be a national electric infrastructure to enable electric cars. I don't imagine it would be overly difficult to have charging stations every 50kms or so along major highways and have one in every town. The government also needs to change the way we generate electricity, and should outlaw plastic in many instances in favor of paper products (i.e. plates and cups).

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: desy
If your a pacifist I can respect that, I won't try to change that opinion
I however believe the world is full of wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs I think history favours this perspective.

On a primal level we are all wolves.

Historically war has served very few benefactors aside from the profiteers. By profiteers I mean the business people who profit from guns, tanks, planes, and reconstruction efforts.

Even if you look at a hugely successful general like Napolean, he was eventually exiled, and you probably know what wound up happening to France during WW2.

If you look at the US and all of their wars, what have they gained? The world hates them, and they spent all their money and are only now considering social healthcare.

 

[desy]

Housing and homeless is a PROVINCIAL responsibility same with education and health.
Provinces tax twice as much as the Federal government does

Canada is a confederation of provinces who choose to be with Canada for umbrella support but they are largely autonomous in regards to how they govern

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Hoping for a Conservative Majority. Harper aside, most Canadians agree with his government's policies; his 5 point plan has been successfully implemented.
(snip)

Kept what promises, exactly?

He's like every other two-faced politician before him, except he campaigned on accountability, and still has the gall to claim he is accountable.

He hasn't kept one promise unless it was convenient, and I can't see that he has accomplished anything at all, really.

And to top it all off, he's spent the last few months spending like a drunken sailor.

Why are you still so hot for this loser?

 

[dennilfloss]

It's now official. Her Excellency the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada, gave her assent and dissolved Parliament.:frown:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story.../07/election-call.html
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Ca.../09/07/6690346-cp.html

I wish she would have said no, just to see Harper blow a gasket. :laugh:

Harper:

PM predicts Tories will win vote: 'We believe in all likelihood it will be a minority'

Then why go through the process if you think you'll have a minority again, dumbass?:frown::thumbsdown:

Edit: some reasons why.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin....html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

[yllus]

*sigh* Once in a while I mistakenly have the impression that we Canadians are a little more sensible about elections than our neighbours to the South. Then I read at thread like this, where most of the content is aimed at smearing the current prime minister as a "neocon" or lackey to the United States. How about some party comparisons based on the issues, or is that too much to ask?

 

[DieHardware]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
First of all, there's no need for an election except to satisfy Mr. NeoControl Freak. The minority parliament was working exactly like a minority parliament should. Harper claims that it became dysfunctional and inoperative during the summer. Well DUH! It was in remission during the summer, as it is every year.

I have always voted Liberal during federal elections and all but one time in provincial elections (at 19yo I voted Parti Québécois in 1976). To me, Pierre Elliott Trudeau represents what is finest amongst us Canadians: Reason before passion, facts over fiction, rule of law, science, acceptance, diversity, and bilingualism. Maybe my evaluation is tainted by shared values coming from both of us being Jesuit-educated.

I had much respect for the red tories under Stanfield and Clark during the 60s to early 80s. I have but scorn for Harper's neocons. Bunch of cowboy fundies who are trying to americanize and defederalise/decentralise us. Mulroney just did not happen (i.e. I'm trying to forget that despicable time).

I'm scared of the social policies these right-wing nuts might implement if Harper Bizarre ever got a majority. These new Conservatives remind me too much of the Parti Créditiste - Crédit Social) under Réal Caouette, minus the colourful language. There's also the stench of the old Union Nationale being resurrected in essence, coming out of the ground to feed on brains so that legions of antielite zombies would slowly march to the voting booth while repeating endlessly, in a bass monotone, "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge".

Yeah nothing like leaving crippling debt for those generations that follow to pay for. :disgust:

And confirmed fool...

at 19yo I voted Parti Québécois in 1976

then...

I have but scorn for Harper's neocons. Bunch of cowboy fundies who are trying to americanize and defederalise/decentralise us.

All in the same post!

U EPIC FAIL @ d'logic.

:shocked: :disgust: