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***OFFICIAL*** Canadians: Federal Election Thread
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The current Liberal platform is further to the right than the previous Conservative budget, and it adds in a hit of fascism slash government control to boot.
Joe Clark (a progressive) left the Conservative party because he felt that they were too radical. Read up on what happened during the French Revolution if you want some historical basis on radicals and what they want to do to government.
My opinion for what it's worth is that the current Conservatives are anarchists at their core. Also, private sector plus government equals corruption, and that is the Conservative (selfish) party at its core.
If the Green party would reveal some sort of comprehensible and reasonable platform, I would seriously consider voting for them. Perhaps they are smoking the pot they wish to legalize.
So what's left? The NDP. They still have my vote at this point.
As for the US, perhaps you should move there if you view their model as ideal. I personally don't look to them to determine what "right", "left", and "centre" are.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
Sadly, a DMCA law is going to be on the books no matter what party is in charge - it's gotten pretty much universal approval last I checked. I'm not happy about that, especially as I'm an often-tinkering software developer myself.
I would have no problems whatsoever if the cause of a parallel private care system was advanced in this country. I want the option of skipping the ridiculously long lines we have in this city if possible.
A destruction of the Canadian identity.
IMO they will turn this country into America Junior, and further advance our "war machine" with their corrupt and murderous friends.
Higher education will become inaccessible to a larger segment of the population.
Our public heathcare system will deteriorate.
Selfishness will rule, every man will be for himself, and we will have more guns.
Our oil industry will continue to stew, brew, and flow directly to the United States while we pay excessively at the pumps for our throw-away-culture roads.
Beyond that I don't know. It depends on how long those Satanists remain in power with their bombs and their guns.
silverpig
Lifer
Dude, there's some radical thoughts here and they're coming from you. Calling them satanists, saying we'll start up a war machine... Geez listen to yourself.
Higher education has become MORE accessible under the Conservatives by allowing books and other education expenses to be tax deductible.
AFAIK wait times in hospitals have decreased under the Conservatives.
Destruction of the Canadian identity? What they'll cancel HNIC now?
Again I am having a very tough time trying to decide who to vote for. The last two elections I have voted for very small independent candidates with no chance of winning, solely due to the fact I was so disenchanted with all of the major candidates.
I am thinking I will end up doing the same thing this time.
KT
I am thinking I will end up doing the same thing this time.
KT
I think it will be surprisingly boring. The conservatives have gained popularity by acting like the liberals. I don't think they would do too much to mess that up.
I like the loosening up of federal power. So much of Canada's tax burden is at the federal level, yet all of the important services are provided at the provincial or local level. Equalization payments asisde, this is where the taxes should be levied.
I like the loosening up of federal power. So much of Canada's tax burden is at the federal level, yet all of the important services are provided at the provincial or local level. Equalization payments asisde, this is where the taxes should be levied.
imported_Champ
Golden Member
I think you took this slightly too far
conservatives will push this country farther right but never into an american jr. area; you have to understand where harper and the conservatives stand, although I feel myself as a conservative I also see myself fairly left on many social issues (never want to see private hc, i dont want Canadian troops out of country but NO MATTER WHAT I WILL STAND BEHIND THEM)
I'm not sure exactly how your linking any government to higher education costs, it is now just a fact and has been that way for awhile, although student loans are great and atleast here they get partially paid for by the gov
public health care is not a national issue...each province controls it...in ab it was klien's fault because he destroyed our hospitals without building new ones (general hospital was primo location near downtown too); although you may believe it has to do with federal government funding it also has to do with balancing budgets, there is only a certain amount of money to go around to each province so yeah there will always be things missing
selfishness and guns...i dont understand where you got that from; although i do know Canada has alot of guns, thats normal we have always had a lot of guns...doom and gloom...if you don't like the way we have been for the last 100 years go to Europe
oil industry...this is one of the main issues that people do not understand in this country...we DO NOT have the resources to refine most of our oil here...its a fact...btw out east you guys are using lots of saudi oil...out west we are using more Alberta oil (not exclusive though)...we cannot catch up because we do not have the refineries to produce our own gas, until we have those it will stay the same...since there is no way a government can force a oil company to build refineries (its like asking Adidas to open a factory in Saskatchewan they could but they already got enough in cheaper areas and better markets to make a good profit) if petrocanada was still government owned it would work i guess but those days are gone
throw-away-culture roads---to tell you the truth i do not know what that means but if it follows the rest of your statement it is either disturbing and/or wrong
seriously i dont understand your animosity towards this government, hell if you think that dion can do a better job then harper vote for him, thats the great thing about this country and our system if you don't like it you can try to change it, vote to make a difference, volunteer for a mla, put a sign in your lawn, write a letter to an editor (with factual unbias information this time) or something productive; don't just bitch, but seriously with that attitude it wouldn't matter who was elected and I guess you will never truly understand how lucky we actually are to choose a government or even have such a good standard of living we enjoy now
The war machine has already started. They plan to triple the size of CFB Trenton. Do you think that old German at the Gomery inquiry was talking trash for his health?
IMO the Canadian Identity is tolerance toward other cultures, and the Native philosophy. I pride myself on living in a warm, caring, peaceful society where we have more civil liberties than most nations. The Conservatives will destroy this IMO.
People are dying in our hospitals while waiting to be treated. Do you think they can fund a public system more by cutting taxes?
IMO someone who builds a war machine and uses it is a Satanist. Thankfully I live in a free country and I have every right to retort your bullshit.
If you don't realize that Canada by nature geographically is energy independent, you've been living under a rock with all due respect.
Government funds education, you should know that.
Perhaps we could spend our military budget refining our own oil and scrap NAFTA.
A synonym for "Conservative" is "selfish". That's what I generally call someone who hordes everything for themselves and then protects it with weapons.
As for our throw-away-culture roads, that's just our society right now with Wal-Mart and the like. People are buying junk right left and centre, and just throwing it away. Plastic can only be recycled 3 times. Asphalt is made from crude oil and there have been conspiracy theories for decades regarding its use. There are new porous road surfaces which allow water to percolate through it, thus negating the need for a sewer system and eliminating the environmental damage from water runoff (not to mention the fact that it's equivalent in cost to asphalt). As I said earlier, concrete is also a much better alternative a la 407. Why build it 10 times when you can build it once, especially given the cost of labour in today's world?
If you don't understand my animosity toward government, I suggest you read your Bible if you have one, and perhaps watch Schindler's List and The Corporation while you're at it.
The last party I'm voting for is the Conservatives. Why you would suggest the Liberals is beyond me; they're a bunch of corrupt cronie hacks.
The NDP gets my vote. Call me what you wish.
silverpig
Lifer
Canada needs a military. We can't keep hitching rides on US planes to tsunami torn SE Asia forever. We need to assert our claim to the NW passage and that means getting subs that don't set our sailors on fire. Afghanistan is a UN sanctioned mission and Canadian troops aren't just killing random Afghanis, they're setting up clean water wells and helping to rebuild infrastructure. I'd buy the war machine bit if we were in Iraq and were chomping at the bit to get into Iran too, but we're not.
The Conservatives will destroy our civil liberties? Like what?
The hospital situation needs to be addressed, but it's not like people die in the ER waiting for a doctor. The wait times are for elective surgeries, MRI, CT. It's not like you get a heart attack, get in the ambulance and are stuck in it while waiting for a parking spot.
You might want to check the definition of Satanist and learn to use the word properly. I don't care what your opinion of its meaning is, you have to use it in the proper context or you come off sounding as an extremist.
silverpig
Lifer
Canada has enough oil to support itself sure, but we need to trade it on the world market for other things. Is your computer made in Canada? How about the clothes you wear? The car you drive?
Canada has benefited greatly from NAFTA. Scrap it an our businesses will have no one to sell to. No selling = no tax money. No tax money = all those improvements to health care you want don't get paid for.
The next line just plain doesn't make sense. You say the Conservatives are selfish because they hoard things for themselves, yet you want to scrap NAFTA and keep our oil to ourselves? Which is it? We guard fuck all with weapons.
Concrete is a horrible road surface. Drive from Vancouver to Seattle. The 99 is a nice highway, paved with asphalt. The I-5 in some stretches is cracked, broken, loud, and dangerous. It's concrete.
Do you not know what the NDP is about or how they run government? Pay money to everyone, tax the crap out of everyone to the point where it's easier to just not go to work. Deficit spend, kill the economy, then get kicked out of office.
What do you think is more important, the NW passage (which still sucks as a shipping route BTW), or heathcare?
TBH who really cares if Russia uses the NW passage? Why not make them a trading partner? It's not like the US has been honest with us (or fair).
So why do we need a military?
IMO our military threatens our national security by pissing off the people of Afghanistan every day.
I consider peace a civil liberty. Right now the Conservatives are taking that from me. Canada should not be at war right now.
The reason the US has no healthcare system and a crap education system is because of their military. Perhaps you don't consider health and education civil liberties.
If you put 2" of concrete down it will heave due to the frost. If you go down 4'-6" with a foundation and give it a good 8" slab of concrete, it isn't going anywhere. Perhaps you should visit Europe before talking about how durable concrete is or isn't. So what if it's loud.
I want to keep the oil for Canadians. You think we should just give it away to the US? As if they're so charitable toward us? Besides, conservatism is about individual selfishness by-and-large.
Our businesses have plenty of people to sell to aside from the US. The better part of our natural resources are going to China right now. Shouldn't you know as much being from Vancouver?
A ton of my stuff is made in China and I hate it. It's wasteful and stupid slavery. As a consumer I think I'm going to go on strike and buy local for a bit.
imported_Champ
Golden Member
We have the potential to be although we do not have the infrastructure to do it, I hope that we can get to the point where each province can be independent and eventually be able to create an economic market out of the united states, but we are lacking in the funding to do so, the issue is attempting to do this while balancing a budget, i really hope our surplus can move towards this but I firmly do not believe in debt spending, and I hope we can become independent because the resources and potential is there
yes I understand the immense role the government plays in education, but once again it is about spending money that is not there. we have to be accountable for for that money so that future generations will not carry a large debt as a burden...I'm really luck to be living in Alberta right now because we are increasing funding here, and we do have some of the most expensive schools here. but the government is making great strides in making student loans affordable, and even putting money towards paying part of them
As much as the military looks offensive it does play a vital role in many different ways of national security. after katrina my cousin's ship was one of the first to be bringing relief supplies to the city. There have been countless times that the army has needed to be used for rescues, flooding and other unplannable occasions. As well we are in a war over our norther sovereignty, as a Canadian you must feel strongly about this, one key way to protect this from Russians, danish and americans is keep a constant presence up there. After that we are in Afghanistan. I agree with this war (a UN sanctioned war) because what we are doing over there means something. I really believe that Afghanistan has potential, we have freed lives from the tyranny of the Taliban, given rights back to those without them. It is a long journey and a costly journey but I know that what we do there is making a difference in the lives of those people and all I can do is hope that one day it can end, were there will be no more violence over there but that day is far off and we are a key part of making that difference. Corporal Nathan Hornburg died in this war, he also went to my high school with my sister. the cost has been great but when his mother gave the rememberance day speech she said he died for a cause he believed in, not a single word was spoken in the gym. My sisters old boyfriend lost his legs in the war aswell, he has a young son aswell, he believed in the war and what we are doing there.
as for NAFTA that is a balance issue on the one hand it is causing job loss over east, it is bringing prosperity west, the economies of BC Alberta and Saskatchewan are moving to become the most powerful, and to tell you the truth I don't mind...it was a matter of time until manufacturing jobs would leave Canada for Mexico and China so really its speeding up what would happen anyways...really we cannot compete with their wages and efficiency, so really it is time to embrace NAFTA and move Canada into Service and basic (cant think of word but more to do with exporting resources)
Refining our own oil...i explained this before it doesn't happen without a crown corporation, and those don't happen without billions spent, you must realize that oil is drilled, refined, shipped, and sold by company's that are not controlled by the government...its like saying we need to build more cars in Canada...you just can't do it you have to get GM and Ford to build onto their factories and hire more people, when it is a situation where it would benefit the company not to.
?...I'm sure exactly what you believe we are hoarding...oil?, land?, money?...protect with weapons? this is Canada buddy, seriously this isn't wild west shoot em' up or the USA
yes our culture is wasteful, I do believe that plastic bags should be eliminated, and I understand that we must make a shift. Asphalt is a byproduct produced by crude oil that is found in the oil sands and cali and near, the asphalt is a byproduct from refining crude. concrete has similar issues with asphalt, that it does crack; as you will notice that southern american road infrastructure stays in a lot better condition then ours...nothing we can do can stop this. it is science when it goes from +30 to -40 under 5 months there will be damage, concrete gets it worse then asphaut, asphaut is used because it has the potential to be recycled, unlike concrete (im not gonna lie i got that from wikipedia) but back home there is a section of deerfoot that is concrete and it is terrible, it is loud cracked bumpy and a terrible area for accidents.
I do not see what point you are making, pick a story from the Bible and I will gladly read it but just read the Bible is very general. Schindler's List...once again you are confusing me, are you relating Steven Harper to NAZI or Oskar Schindler, or are you comparing governments in general? once again I do not understand you vague generalizations, please point out what point you are trying to prove as it would be helpful in letting me understand your point of view.
meh its a 4 party system, 3 run in Ontario, i took a wild guess based on Toronto staying liberal
There is only one thing to call you...a Canadian...because no matter what your political choices are they will always be correct. Thats why I love this country and the system we have, anyone could vote or believe what they want, my trouble with your post is that your ideas were quite disturbing and I believe that you made some rash generalizations about your opponents. I have nothing against the NDP, social programs are a key part of government, but they are not where I feel I should stand. But I really hope that you would not generalize the currant Prime Minister as a satanist or a NAZI; although you have the right to, it is a position based on bias, then taken way to far. What I like about this forum is the sharing of ideas, you did make a lot of points that I will remember, and think about, and I hope I have done the same for you. I know that you have some real opinions on Canadian politics that I would like to hear, and I hope we can continue this conversation but please lets make it a bit more mature
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
Oddly enough, it looks like that's no longer a certainty:
A lot of Torontonians I run into day to day seem begrudgingly accepting of the fact that the Conservatives have done a better job as of late than most governments that came before us (in our voting lifetimes).
I imagine that over in Sauga, Mr. Khan is a lock, who as a Muslim, Pakistani-born ex-fighter pilot is a nice feather in the cap for the range of views the Conservatives have access to. And I think Mr. Kent will make defeat his incumbent opponent this year - even as someone who never watches TV news, I recognize the name and that really helps his case.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
Also, am I alone in thinking that the Prime Minister's wife Laureen is pretty hot? Nice job, Stephen. 😛
silverpig
Lifer
You're okay with the ships of other nations sailing freely through the middle of Canada?
Why do we need a military? Go down to the local Legion and ask that question. Honestly do it. Go to a war memorial, or to a service on Remembrance Day and ask.
Or you could ask the people in Manitoba who dug them out of their flooded homes around the Red River, or ask Quebec who was there to help during the ice storm.
The US does spend a lot of their budget on the military. We do not. We spend less on our military per capita than well, pretty much any developed nation.
Concrete cracks due to expansion in a way that asphalt does not. It always happens. Furthermore, once concrete gets worn out, you have to replace the entire slab. Resurfacing asphalt can be done very easily with a single machine.
Your economic plan is without foresight. You want to cancel NAFTA so we can hold on to something we have too much of, and make it harder for us to get things we do not have enough of. Do you not see why this is a bad idea?
And what's this with China? You want to cancel NAFTA so the US gets less of our stuff, but you're okay with China taking it instead? How does that make sense?
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
This illogical hoarding mentality exists in a lot of people. What are we saving mountains of oil for anyways, a rainy day? A use it or lose it reality exists here. Yes, we could "lose it" - not by having our oil fields taken away by force or anything nutty like that, but there's a price level at which any and all nations will redouble their efforts to not need the stuff and invest in alternative sources of energy.
For a nation very heavily in the commodities trade, that wouldn't be so hot.
I wouldn't mind a renegotiation of some points in NAFTA where it could benefit us, but as it's already written it's still been great for Canada. We really went in to conduct a simple trade: Canadian oil for access to American markets. I'd love to price up oil a little bit since our neighbours currently get one hell of a sweet deal, but it's really a win-win situation.
That northwest passage is going to be huge in two to five decades' time. I fully support getting ready to assert our sovereignty (and taxes) upon it. Nobody rides for free!
UnatcoAgent
Diamond Member
In the end those on our Canadian political spectrum are not far off from one another, those who are left, are not very far left, the same for the right. Little will change, there is no clear, good choice, only bad ones all around this year.
Number1
Diamond Member
Liberals projected to lose almost all close races
We are heading toward a majority Conservative government. Dion is the best thing that could have happened to the CPC.
We are heading toward a majority Conservative government. Dion is the best thing that could have happened to the CPC.
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