*** Official Anti War Protestor Thread***SanFrancisco, No Business as Usual....

Page 18 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,769
6,336
126
Originally posted by: elzmaddy
For the record, I am strongly against this war. Call me naive, a liberal, a hippie, communist, etc, but this war just seems wrong to me. Instead of all of the arguments which everybody has heard already, I will present my philosophical view.

What is happening now in Iraq is absolutely atrocious to me. Even if this man DOES posess weapons of mass destruction, I do not believe a pre-emptive war can be justified on the possibilty that he MAY use them. Killing people on the possibility that people may be killed. Tens of Americans and hundreds of Iraqi soldiers, perhaps into the thousands now, have been killed needlessly.

We are trapped in a cycle of violence that cannot be stopped with further violence. (ie: you cannot fight fire with fire). Look how far this tactic has gotten the Israelis and Palestineans. It just does not work that way. This pre-emptive attack sets a poor example for the rest of the world and opens the door for future justifications of military conflict. Moreover, I do not believe in creating a hell in the present for a better future. Indeed, this present moment -- the hell that is going on in Iraq -- is the best indicator of what the future will be like. A future of further conflict, destruction and suffering.

Now we could sit here all day and paste facts and statistics back and forth to each other, but that really will not get us far. The cycle of violence is perpetuating itself continously. The justifications for violence will come, no matter how unreasonable, illogical or absurd, as long as people are identified with their minds. For example, your mind tells you that being an American is part of your identity, so you will go to great lengths to defend it, a mentally created image of yourself. Because, if the mental identity dies, you feel part of youself dying. And so your perceptions are governed by fear since this mind-made image of self is constantly under threat. However, ultimately, we are not truly Americans or Iraqis, Christians or Muslims, but human beings. And to see yourself as a human being before your national or religious identity can make things a lot clearer. You will see that there is no one really winning in the battlefield. Everyone, all of humanity, is losing. The fact that everyone identifies with mental positions does not make it any less of an illness. We have seen its manifestations recently on 9/11, and in the past century, where 100 million human beings were killed by their fellow human beings. This is the energy that creates the "us versus them" attitude that makes a fellow human being just like you appear as an enemy, when really, we are all the same. The same energy Bush tapped into to gather support for his war is the same energy Hitler tapped into to rally the German people. Tell them they are under threat of attack, whether physically, ideologically, etc.

We could argue for another hundred years about specifics, and you may curse me for lumping evil terrorists together with brave soldiers valiantly defending their country, comparing our leader with a Nazi, but the roots of the violence are still the same. We are destined to bear the burden of problems, conflict, fear and suffering as long as our identity is rigidly defined by our minds. But you need not cling to any identity other than that of a simple human being. There is a way out of all this madness; it is not just a utopian fantasy. However, the best time to start down this road is now, at this very moment. Thus I demand this war should end immediately and unconditionally for the sake of not just the Iraqis but of all humanity.

I fully agree with you, but now that this war has started the Coalition has to accomplish it's goals. There is simply no way that they can stop now, stopping now would likely lead to a realization of the fears that started the war, not that winning will have no negative consequences. Simply put, Saddam knows without a doubt that he is a target, as such he has every incentive to now attack and destroy the US(if possible) and I have little doubt that he would.
 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
5,302
0
76
The level of naivete expressed by some members here is almost comical. Human beings in their present form will never be free from violence. Look at the history of the world and find for me a period of time not consumed with violence. Look at nature and tell me that it isn't inherently violent. There is no other way to deal with people like Saddam or OBL, except with force..........
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: flavio
I checked out the protesting in San Fran after work. I pretty much had to walk past them to get on the train.

They are doing good work. There is plenty of literature if you care to read in depth what they have to say. They seem to be getting the message out to the government. I took a bunch of great pictures.

I love all the people in this thread that wish them harm, because Lord knows there's nothing more American than beating down the people who don't agree with you.

In fact I think that is the definition of Liberty.


nice to see them practicing their liberty then....nothing like seeing someone argue against the violence of war, but willing to beat your head in if you don't agree.....

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Well, I saw something I found disgusting. A nice little pro war guy

This fellow must have been 80. I was looking at the front page of a paper and he and his wife looked at it too. It was Iraqi women and children protesting the US war against Iraq. Had the usual guns etc. He said that no one there is innocent and we need to kill every man, woman and child. I tried to ignore him, but he repeated it and directed it at me as expecting agreement. I said that no baby has ever murdered anyone. He said "They are all evil and we need to kill them all babies too" I said that people did not fight to create this country and friends and family die in wars so people like him could succede where Hitler failed. He didnt like that.

Bastard.
 

J5im8yo

Senior member
Nov 8, 2002
233
0
0
Since Bush is spending 75 billion on war why not just drop a couple bombs on the ground. That'll clear up the traffic.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: lupy
Once again I ask these questions to all the pro-war folks out there, if have so much passion for this war saying it's defending our freedom, it's patriotic, blah, blah, blah.

Then howcome you still have time to post your tripe from the comfort of your room?

Why aren't you in the military? Why don't I see you on the battlefield in Iraq?

Oh and don't tell me it's because you are fat and you can't pass the physical
rolleye.gif

Supporting our war doesn't mean you have to join the military... In the same regards I could ask the same of people who oppose the war, why aren't you out there putting up flyers and protesting the war? Why are you posting on AT?

rolleye.gif


BTW, I work for the DoD, and my moronic roomate asked the same thing... It seems great minds think alike? lol... Maybe I could hook you two up for a date?

Perhaps if we all responded we could shut down the entire country! No protestors around. No supporters. Only government.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Well, I saw something I found disgusting. A nice little pro war guy

This fellow must have been 80. I was looking at the front page of a paper and he and his wife looked at it too. It was Iraqi women and children protesting the US war against Iraq. Had the usual guns etc. He said that no one there is innocent and we need to kill every man, woman and child. I tried to ignore him, but he repeated it and directed it at me as expecting agreement. I said that no baby has ever murdered anyone. He said "They are all evil and we need to kill them all babies too" I said that people did not fight to create this country and friends and family die in wars so people like him could succede where Hitler failed. He didnt like that.

Bastard.


What paper was he reading??? I would like to see that front page....
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
maybe one of the most stunning stats in sports history belongs to the great one, you could take away every goal he ever scored, and he would still be the all time scorer in NHL history...:Q
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,725
6,754
126
Hitler didn't come from Mars. He is inside every one of us. In a zoo, what animals thrive depends on which ones you feed.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Hitler didn't come from Mars. He is inside every one of us. In a zoo, what animals thrive depends on which ones you feed.

Outside of the zoo, the weakest, most pacifistic animals are eaten and then returned to the earth as waste.


:D
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,725
6,754
126
Ah yes, that rare bird that cleans its own cage. Think globally act locally. Good work. :p
 

Just got an intercompany email saying they are planning to protest in Rockefeller Center tomorrow all day:
Re: 3/27 - Anti-War Protests in Rockefeller Center & Other Sites

I wanted to alert you to possible traffic delays/disturbances that may take place around the city, and in particular Rockefeller Center (Fifth Avenue & 50th Street), on Thursday, March 27, beginning at 8AM and going on throughout the day.

The New York City Police Department has informed us that a series of anti-war protests are scheduled to take place during this time frame. Demonstrators particularly plan to target media companies as sites for their protests, where they plan to stage "die ins," acts of civil disobedience by which participants lie in the street (simulating death), usually blocking intersections.

The NYPD has assigned extra detail to handle these demonstrations.

But we wanted to alert you in advance so you could alter your travel throughout the city where possible, or at least to be prepared for delays.

I am planning to walk by to see it in action. Should be good for a laugh. I hope it rains, hate to be laying in the street in the rain. Rain + dirty NYC streets = teh nasty.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Ah yes, that rare bird that cleans its own cage. Think globally act locally. Good work. :p

Just hope one day I can be as good as it as you.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: dwell
Just got an intercompany email saying they are planning to protest in Rockefeller Center tomorrow all day:
Re: 3/27 - Anti-War Protests in Rockefeller Center & Other Sites

I wanted to alert you to possible traffic delays/disturbances that may take place around the city, and in particular Rockefeller Center (Fifth Avenue & 50th Street), on Thursday, March 27, beginning at 8AM and going on throughout the day.

The New York City Police Department has informed us that a series of anti-war protests are scheduled to take place during this time frame. Demonstrators particularly plan to target media companies as sites for their protests, where they plan to stage "die ins," acts of civil disobedience by which participants lie in the street (simulating death), usually blocking intersections.

The NYPD has assigned extra detail to handle these demonstrations.

But we wanted to alert you in advance so you could alter your travel throughout the city where possible, or at least to be prepared for delays.

I am planning to walk by to see it in action. Should be good for a laugh. I hope it rains, hate to be laying in the street in the rain. Rain + dirty NYC streets = teh nasty.


Nothing that an ordinary fire hydrant, fire hose and fireman can't take care of. Send them a bill for his time and the water used of course...
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Millennium
flavio- Do you have the scans of alternative plans yet?

I walked up to Market St. during lunch yesterday and saw 3 protestors. I'll keep my eye out this week. Shouldn't take much to come up with better than bomb, kill, "liberate" though.

Ok thanks. Let me know when you get some.

Still waiting.....