Discussion ***Official*** 2025 Stock Market Thread 💰

[FelixDeCat]

Moar upside 😱

 

[AdamK47]

EV makers not doing swell.

Rivian down and Lucid in the danger zone. Tesla down but will recover. Most likely to gobble up whatever tiny market share Rivian and Lucid have.

EVs are not the darling they once were. Particularly in '22 when the people were buying them up at silly prices to keep up with the Joneses.

At least they aren't making bone headed moves like Stellantis did. EV muscle cars? No thank you.

Meanwhile, GM investing heavily again in V8 engines.

 

[jpiniero]

At least they aren't making bone headed moves like Stellantis did. EV muscle cars? No thank you.

Meanwhile, GM investing heavily again in V8 engines.

I like that EVs are quiet. Just a bad idea if you live where it gets cold.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Everyone that wants and can afford an EV probably got one by now, so it makes sense that sales are slowing. Cars in general are insane expensive too not just EVs though, it's insane how much the prices went up in the past 5 or so years. The whole industry is probably going to shoot itself in the foot if they don't bring prices down. It's a cut throat industry though, the price of raw materials keeps going up, such as steel. So that doesn't help. Then add tariffs on top of it.

 

[dullard]

Everyone that wants and can afford an EV probably got one by now, so it makes sense that sales are slowing. Cars in general are insane expensive too not just EVs though, it's insane how much the prices went up in the past 5 or so years. The whole industry is probably going to shoot itself in the foot if they don't bring prices down. It's a cut throat industry though, the price of raw materials keeps going up, such as steel. So that doesn't help. Then add tariffs on top of it.

Prices did go up. But only after a 12 year pause when prices were stagnant.

Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers: New Vehicles in U.S. City Average

Graph and download economic data for Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers: New Vehicles in U.S. City Average from Jan 1953 to Jun 2025 about vehicles, urban, new, consumer, CPI, inflation, price index, indexes, price, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

I buy a new car every ~12 years. My last three prices: $16k (2011), $25k (2013), $36k (2025). I got my first EV. It just made the most sense for me. If (and this is a big if) it lasts 10 years then I'll save about $1k/year with the EV vs. any other car that I priced out. So far, I'm saving about $200 per month in fuel prices (actually more if you include the fact that some of my electricity comes from solar panels).

 

[dullard]

Just a bad idea if you live where it gets cold.

That depends on your use case. If you have a garage and can preheat the EV automatically before you drive, then it is usually not cold when charging (you just drove it so it should be warm) or when leaving home (preheated in garage). It would only be cold when driving back home. They really suck though if you don't have a garage or need a long range.

 

[Brainonska511]

Everyone that wants and can afford an EV probably got one by now, so it makes sense that sales are slowing. Cars in general are insane expensive too not just EVs though, it's insane how much the prices went up in the past 5 or so years. The whole industry is probably going to shoot itself in the foot if they don't bring prices down. It's a cut throat industry though, the price of raw materials keeps going up, such as steel. So that doesn't help. Then add tariffs on top of it.

Cars are not necessarily "insanely expensive" - they are more feature rich than ever before, and you can still find a good chunk of new vehicles under $30k (US). People just love to buy more vehicle than they really need, then cry about how expensive things are.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah it doesn't help that every vehicle has so many bells and whistles now. They don't seem to really make base models anymore it's all high end. They need to bring back the square body trucks and similar style vehicles, where they were focused on utility and that's it. They were basic but they were cheap and got the job done.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Yeah it doesn't help that every vehicle has so many bells and whistles now. They don't seem to really make base models anymore it's all high end. They need to bring back the square body trucks and similar style vehicles, where they were focused on utility and that's it. They were basic but they were cheap and got the job done.

I paid off my 22 Tucson. Enjoying no more car payments for now. 🙌

And the dealer has been mailing and emailing me to buy a 25 even though the 26 will be a totally redesigned car.

Anyway I got 48k on this ole geezer, would love to keep for 200k, but we'll see.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I paid off my 22 Tucson. Enjoying no more car payments for now. 🙌

And the dealer has been mailing and emailing me to buy a 25 even though the 26 will be a totally redesigned car.

Anyway I got 48k on this ole geezer, would love to keep for 200k, but we'll see.

My old boss used to do that, he'd buy a brand new truck then get hit up for an incentive to trade it in for the newer model. It's not as good of a deal as it sounds, as you're now resetting your loan back to 0 paid. May as well lease at that point lol.

I really want the F150 lightning, but I just can't justify spending that kind of money. I could afford it once the mortgage is paid... but I don't know if it would be a smart move, that's a lot of money I could put towards my off grid build and also investments. I have slight buyer's remorse over my 2012 Ram. Paid 5k but with repairs and all it ended up costing 11k. But then I look at my F150 and yeah I was really due so probably for the best that I bought something newer and in better condition. The old one is literally falling apart. Close the door too hard and chunks of rust fall out from the bottom lol. I just hate that I paid like 12k for the F150 and it barely lasted me. Bought it like 6ish years ago.

 

[JTsyo]

I like that EVs are quiet. Just a bad idea if you live where it gets cold.

Tell that to Norway. People's ideas of EVs are already dated since the tech is evolving so fast.
Norway’s sales of EVs have increased from less than 1% of total auto sales in 2010 to 88.9% last year — and this trend doesn’t show any sign of slowing.

 

[Brainonska511]

Tell that to Norway. People's ideas of EVs are already dated since the tech is evolving so fast.
Norway’s sales of EVs have increased from less than 1% of total auto sales in 2010 to 88.9% last year — and this trend doesn’t show any sign of slowing.

Also, would most people notice much of a range decrease for their daily day driving that tends to be <50 miles/day for the typical American? A range decrease might mean you plug it in slightly more often in the winter.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I think the biggest issue is things like the computer flat out not letting you use the car because it's too cold, or the battery taking on permanent damage because of no battery heater and similar potential issues. I don't think these are really issues anymore though right? I know they were for some specific EVs like the Nissan Leaf. Ideally want to be able to drive/charge it even when it's -40 out without needing to put it in the garage as not everyone has a heated garage. If the range is simply reduced, or you even have temporary reduced performance to protect the battery, that's fine but as long as you can still make it to work, or home from the mall or airport for example after it sat for a while.

Range doesn't really worry me specifically as I never really travel that far, and the current range availability on most EVs is enough for my uses. The metric I would use is ability to make it to my off grid property and back with lots of cargo on a single charge and I think pretty much all EVs now have at least that much range. I can understand people who want more range though, even if you only go on a family vacation once a year, when you pay that kind of money for a vehicle you want to actually be able to use it for all your needs even if some of those needs are not frequent. I think the solution to this is ability to attach a generator as a range extender. This should just be a standard option with all EVs imo. It would be a module that fits in the frunk and it would automatically kick on if needed.

 

[dullard]

Ideally want to be able to drive/charge it even when it's -40 out without needing to put it in the garage as not everyone has a heated garage. If the range is simply reduced, or you even have temporary reduced performance to protect the battery, that's fine but as long as you can still make it to work, or home from the mall or airport for example after it sat for a while.
...
I think the solution to this is ability to attach a generator as a range extender. This should just be a standard option with all EVs imo. It would be a module that fits in the frunk and it would automatically kick on if needed.

1) No need for a heated garage. You just probably want a garage. That is so that wind doesn't take away much of the heat your car generates. Many EVs have self-heating batteries for preconditioning. Avoid the few EVs that don't have this feature. Then while the car is plugged in, the battery will precondition and stay warm. You can even program it to heat the whole vehicle cabin just before you leave. Again, you don't need a heated garage for this. But it takes way more energy if your car is sitting outside in blustery winds at -40°C. So a standard unheated garage is the way to go.

When it sits at the airport, just log in and set it to heat once you land. It'll be warm when you get there. My EV lets me do this in up to 20 minute intervals before it automatically shuts off (to prevent accidentally running it unattended forever).

2) I think you underestimate the size of generators needed. A 7000 W generator (or bigger) will run 8 cubic feet or more in volume. Even a Cybertruck only has a 7 cubic foot frunk. Plus then you need to store the fuel somewhere. As it is, if you need the range, an EV should not be your primary car. You should have access to another car for the times when you need that range. Rent a car, have a second car, etc. Plus, you just described a plug-in hybrid which already exist.

 

[AdamK47]

My e-tron has a heat pump to warm the battery in the Winter.

 

[Red Squirrel]

1) No need for a heated garage. You just probably want a garage. That is so that wind doesn't take away much of the heat your car generates. Many EVs have self-heating batteries for preconditioning. Avoid the few EVs that don't have this feature. Then while the car is plugged in, the battery will precondition and stay warm. You can even program it to heat the whole vehicle cabin just before you leave. Again, you don't need a heated garage for this. But it takes way more energy if your car is sitting outside in blustery winds at -40°C. So a standard unheated garage is the way to go.

When it sits at the airport, just log in and set it to heat once you land. It'll be warm when you get there. My EV lets me do this in up to 20 minute intervals before it automatically shuts off (to prevent accidentally running it unattended forever).

2) I think you underestimate the size of generators needed. A 7000 W generator (or bigger) will run 8 cubic feet or more in volume. Even a Cybertruck only has a 7 cubic foot frunk. Plus then you need to store the fuel somewhere. As it is, if you need the range, an EV should not be your primary car. You should have access to another car for the times when you need that range. Rent a car, have a second car, etc. Plus, you just described a plug-in hybrid which already exist.

That's good to know then, I seen some videos where people had issues with certain cars where they would refuse to start or have other issues but this was older models too. (older video)

I never really considered how much energy a car uses when simply cruising, is it really in the multiple kw range? I would have figured a little Honda 1-2kw would do the job. I guess it's just not feasible for smaller cars or even pickups then. Edison is doing it with semi trucks and that does seem to be what makes the most sense for semis.

 

[FelixDeCat]

My old boss used to do that, he'd buy a brand new truck then get hit up for an incentive to trade it in for the newer model. It's not as good of a deal as it sounds, as you're now resetting your loan back to 0 paid. May as well lease at that point lol.

I really want the F150 lightning, but I just can't justify spending that kind of money. I could afford it once the mortgage is paid... but I don't know if it would be a smart move, that's a lot of money I could put towards my off grid build and also investments. I have slight buyer's remorse over my 2012 Ram. Paid 5k but with repairs and all it ended up costing 11k. But then I look at my F150 and yeah I was really due so probably for the best that I bought something newer and in better condition. The old one is literally falling apart. Close the door too hard and chunks of rust fall out from the bottom lol. I just hate that I paid like 12k for the F150 and it barely lasted me. Bought it like 6ish years ago.

I had a 2008 Accent that ran very well. I put several thousand in it in repairs and upgrades but the paint was peeling and I sure as hell was not going to put a $3000 paint job on it. Could have driven it 10 years more, but it was getting butt ugly.

Not to mention it only had disk brakes in the front and drums in the back, so when you took a fast turn it would fish tail.

It was probably worth 2500 as is, the dealer offered 500 in 2019 and I took it. Would have cost 800 a year in liability to just sit in the driveway.

Kind of wish I kept it.

 

[Indus]

1) No need for a heated garage. You just probably want a garage. That is so that wind doesn't take away much of the heat your car generates. Many EVs have self-heating batteries for preconditioning. Avoid the few EVs that don't have this feature. Then while the car is plugged in, the battery will precondition and stay warm. You can even program it to heat the whole vehicle cabin just before you leave. Again, you don't need a heated garage for this. But it takes way more energy if your car is sitting outside in blustery winds at -40°C. So a standard unheated garage is the way to go.

When it sits at the airport, just log in and set it to heat once you land. It'll be warm when you get there. My EV lets me do this in up to 20 minute intervals before it automatically shuts off (to prevent accidentally running it unattended forever).

2) I think you underestimate the size of generators needed. A 7000 W generator (or bigger) will run 8 cubic feet or more in volume. Even a Cybertruck only has a 7 cubic foot frunk. Plus then you need to store the fuel somewhere. As it is, if you need the range, an EV should not be your primary car. You should have access to another car for the times when you need that range. Rent a car, have a second car, etc. Plus, you just described a plug-in hybrid which already exist.

But don't more batteries die in the summer due to heat than in the cold due to winter??

 

[dullard]

But don't more batteries die in the summer due to heat than in the cold due to winter??

The Leaf had some batteries fail in Arizona/Nevada. But Leafs don't have battery thermal control systems. Just like charging your phone fast can heat it up (especially near 100%), charging an EV fast can also heat up the batteries. Most non-Leaf EVs have active temperature control systems that can also cool the batteries when they charge in the summer. I would personally avoid fast charging over 95°F (35°C) in full sun past ~80%.

I charge my EV in a garage that is not temperature controlled, but it is insulated. The garage runs from 30°F to 90°F (-1°C to 32°C) depending on the day. So far, no issues.

If I save $2500/year in energy, then I can replace a bad $50 battery cell now and then. Even if that price triples with labor (just a guess) then I can still easily afford it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

If I save $2500/year in energy, then I can replace a bad $50 battery cell now and then. Even if that price triples with labor (just a guess) then I can still easily afford it.

The issue with EVs is they really are not right to repair friendly. You can't just replace a cell you have to replace the whole battery and that can cost 10's of thousands which is basically the cost of buying a used gas car. It's really dumb they do it that way, they really should make them more modular. It's very rare that the entire pack fails it's usually just a bad cell or bad BMS etc. The leaf was maybe an exception due to lack of thermal management, and in that case the whole pack was fried. If you try to charge lithium cells below 0C they start to get damaged. The battery needs to be warmed up first. Not everyone has a garage or room in their garage for a car.

 

[Brainonska511]

The issue with EVs is they really are not right to repair friendly. You can't just replace a cell you have to replace the whole battery and that can cost 10's of thousands which is basically the cost of buying a used gas car. It's really dumb they do it that way, they really should make them more modular. It's very rare that the entire pack fails it's usually just a bad cell or bad BMS etc. The leaf was maybe an exception due to lack of thermal management, and in that case the whole pack was fried. If you try to charge lithium cells below 0C they start to get damaged. The battery needs to be warmed up first. Not everyone has a garage or room in their garage for a car.

Modern gas-powered cars are not exactly "right-to-repair" friendly either, and they can also cost a lot per year in maintenance and fuel costs.

A lot of people make mountains out of mole hills when it comes to EVs with fantastical scenarios and discounting the things they already have to do (and more) for their gas-powered vehicles.

 

[AdamK47]

My McLaren is certainly not right to repair friendly. Not when you have to remove entire body panels to work on the engine. Yearly service is about $2K.

 

[Red Squirrel]

If you can afford a McLaren then you can afford the price to get it serviced. Supercars like that are a whole other league. A single oil change in one of those is probably more than what I've paid for any vehicle I've owned lol. But yeah even regular cars have gotten bad for repairability, it's an industry wide issue. Some are even doing dump crap like putting the battery in the wheel well so you need to jack the car up and take the wheel off just to access it lol.

If you buy used, even if you put the same amount you bought back into the car, you're still cheaper than the cost of an EV (or any new car really) though and still cheaper than a battery replacement. I paid 5k for my truck, had to put like 6k into it to get it road worthy so 11k, that's still cheaper than an EV battery replacement. The ongoing cost of gas is not that bad either, maybe like $200ish per month.

I think where EVs make more sense financially is very high mileage vehicles like delivery drivers, buses, garbage trucks would actually make lot of sense too due to all the stop and go. At that point the gas savings would start to make up for the initial cost fairly quickly.

As much as I like the idea of an EV for myself it would be a poor financial decision. I may still splurge at one point and do it, but it won't be for financial reasons that's for sure. If I buy from out of town sight unseen, I could get a used one though, but that's a very high risk thing to do.

I guess this is more a used vs new argument, than EV, but to buy an EV you almost need to buy new as the used market is small especially here.

At some point I would love to build a shop and get into fabrication projects, and possibly even attempt an EV swap project, that would probably be the most economical way to get an EV and if I design the battery pack and BMS from ground up it would also be more repairable. The issue is sourcing out the cells though. I have not found any reliable source for them anywhere here in Canada.

 

[Brainonska511]

At some point I would love to build a shop and get into fabrication projects, and possibly even attempt an EV swap project, that would probably be the most economical way to get an EV and if I design the battery pack and BMS from ground up it would also be more repairable. The issue is sourcing out the cells though.

Things are actually more expensive when you can't take advantage of economies of scale. It might be an interesting hobby project, but I would think that this could be one of the most expensive methods for getting an EV.

 

[FelixDeCat]

When is QQQ 600?

Random stocks have lost 40% in one day after earnings including Trade Desk, Under Armour, Snap Chat...mostly due to lower spending, tariffs and end of low dollar exemptions from tariffs. I wish I had known about the Trade Desk crash. A $1,000 put bet would have netted $20,000 in one day.


Speaking of tariffs, the end of Win 10 support, my Sandybridge 2011 CPU becoming irrelevant as of October..

I decided to buy an MSI Z890 board, 48GB 8200 ram, and a Ultra 7 265K cpu before prices go up (actually came with a combo discount.)

Now I just have to figure out water cooling and see if it will work in my ancient case. I hate cases these days with no drive bays. 🤬