*** Official 2014-2015 NBA Playoff thread ***

[Blackjack200]

Anyone who denies LeBron's greatness after these three games has an opinion which is impossible to justify. Literally the only argument in favor of the "LeBron is overrated" side at this point is "I'm a fucking moron and I know nothing about basketball."

Love it, totally agree.

 

[QueBert]

when curry gets too cute, no one talks about it (his unnecessary behind the back pass that went out of bounds then lebron comes down and drains a 3).

when lebron gets too cute, it's the lead on sports center.

Everything he does is under a microscope magnified to the highest level possible. If Cavs lose, it will be Lebron's fault. "He sucks, he should have done more!" If the 85 Lakers had been without Kareem & Worthy due to injuries and they lost to Boston, Magic wouldn't have gotten any flack. James sucks if they lose this, the fact #2 & #3 are out with injuries matters not. I doubt Jordan could have done it without Pippin and Grant. Yet James right now is, this is some of the most impressive balling I've ever seen.

If the Cav's win I'm not seeing anything the haters can possibly say about him. I guess they'll run the "never be as good as Jordan!" spiel into the ground. 5 Years ago the haters would bring up rings, because James had none. Wonder what they'll say if he retires with as many as Jordan. My neighbor said Sunday "James sucks!" while we were watching the game and I believed she believes it, like hook her to a lie detector test and she would pass. Hate's such a crazy thing.

 

[Kelvrick]

I never denied how good Lebron is but I still hate him and hope he never gets a(nother) ring.

I think he sucks in the way that I don't like him, but damn can he play basketball. Five trips to the finals and playing all these minutes at that level is incredible. I'll be a hater for life unless he personally saves my life or something.

 

[Blackjack200]

If the Cav's win I'm not seeing anything the haters can possibly say about him. I guess they'll run the "never be as good as Jordan!" spiel into the ground. 5 Years ago the haters would bring up rings, because James had none. Wonder what they'll say if he retires with as many as Jordan. My neighbor said Sunday "James sucks!" while we were watching the game and I believed she believes it, like hook her to a lie detector test and she would pass. Hate's such a crazy thing.

I'm not sure if you're serious, but they'll point out, with some justification, that Jordan never lost in the Finals, indeed, never even went to a game 7. James is already 2-3 in the Finals. It's absolutely astonishing that he won two three-peats while not playing between them.

That said, if James manages to win this series, I think it will be his most compelling case for GOAT. Jordan never did anything like this, never carried a team so completely, never carried such a pedestrian team so far. Arguing about if he "could have" is as meaningless as wondering if James would have won Jordan's championships if he were in Jordan's place. Jordan didn't. James can't. They would both have extraordinary accomplishment that the other doesn't.

I never denied how good Lebron is but I still hate him and hope he never gets a(nother) ring.

I think he sucks in the way that I don't like him, but damn can he play basketball. Five trips to the finals and playing all these minutes at that level is incredible. I'll be a hater for life unless he personally saves my life or something.

I don't understand this at all. Have you really compared James against, say Jordan, who is an absolute dickhead? James certainly made some mistakes when he went to the Heat and when he lost in the Finals in 2011, but on the balance, a very very likeable athlete.

 

[smackababy]

I'm not sure if you're serious, but they'll point out, with some justification, that Jordan never lost in the Finals, indeed, never even went to a game 7. James is already 2-3 in the Finals. It's absolutely astonishing that he won two three-peats while not playing between them.

That said, if James manages to win this series, I think it will be his most compelling case for GOAT. Jordan never did anything like this, never carried a team so completely, never carried such a pedestrian team so far. Arguing about if he "could have" is as meaningless as wondering if James would have won Jordan's championships if he were in Jordan's place. Jordan didn't. James can't. They would both have extraordinary accomplishment that the other doesn't.

Jordan tried. And the Pistons showed him he couldn't do it alone. That is why they got Pippen. Jordan couldn't handle the physical play in '89. He got stronger and more stamina to handle it, but even then, he needed someone. LeBron needs someone as well, to be fair. He is getting a lot of help defensively, don't pretend otherwise.

I don't understand this at all. Have you really compared James against, say Jordan, who is an absolute dickhead? James certainly made some mistakes when he went to the Heat and when he lost in the Finals in 2011, but on the balance, a very very likeable athlete.

In terms of professional athletes, LeBron is one of the most likable. He hasn't done anything really bad and stays out of trouble and spotlight in the media (other than his play). He hasn't been cheating on his wife with white women. He hasn't been out gambling. He hasn't told management to get players off the team because they couldn't help them win.

 

[preslove]

I'm not sure if you're serious, but they'll point out, with some justification, that Jordan never lost in the Finals, indeed, never even went to a game 7. James is already 2-3 in the Finals. It's absolutely astonishing that he won two three-peats while not playing between them.

That said, if James manages to win this series, I think it will be his most compelling case for GOAT. Jordan never did anything like this, never carried a team so completely, never carried such a pedestrian team so far. Arguing about if he "could have" is as meaningless as wondering if James would have won Jordan's championships if he were in Jordan's place. Jordan didn't. James can't. They would both have extraordinary accomplishment that the other doesn't.



I don't understand this at all. Have you really compared James against, say Jordan, who is an absolute dickhead? James certainly made some mistakes when he went to the Heat and when he lost in the Finals in 2011, but on the balance, a very very likeable athlete.

Before '91, Jordan lost a few playoff series. It was only after getting an excellent supporting cast (and then another) that he started winning championships. If Lebron manages to win this series, I definitely think he's GOAT.

And, yeah, all the hate directed at James is so weird. His worst 'mistake' was the 'Decision,' which was very lame as media appearance, but also raised a couple million dollars for charity. Jordan, by all accounts, is and was a total asshole in his personal life.

 

[Blackjack200]

Jordan tried. And the Pistons showed him he couldn't do it alone. That is why they got Pippen. Jordan couldn't handle the physical play in '89. He got stronger and more stamina to handle it, but even then, he needed someone. LeBron needs someone as well, to be fair. He is getting a lot of help defensively, don't pretend otherwise.

Before '91, Jordan lost a few playoff series. It was only after getting an excellent supporting cast (and then another) that he started winning championships. If Lebron manages to win this series, I definitely think he's GOAT.

Agree, but I think that's what their argument will be (and kind of already is) "On the biggest stage, Jordan never failed"

In terms of professional athletes, LeBron is one of the most likable. He hasn't done anything really bad and stays out of trouble and spotlight in the media (other than his play). He hasn't been cheating on his wife with white women. He hasn't been out gambling. He hasn't told management to get players off the team because they couldn't help them win.

😵

Can we just say "other women" and leave the race part out? I mean, I know it does matter to a lot of people. But I'd like to pretend it doesn't matter to us.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Now that I think about it I do remember some folks had some similar irrational feelings towards Jordan's greatness as well. The difference is that it was more localized. We didn't have global chat available at our fingertips to help develop the type of mob mentality that exists today.

 

[smackababy]

Can we just say "other women" and leave the race part out? I mean, I know it does matter to a lot of people. But I'd like to pretend it doesn't matter to us.

The issue was that 20 years ago, the most recognizable black guy was cheating on his black wife with white women, as he was also hanging out with old rich guys. It was an issue.

I agree it shouldn't have been a big deal, but it was. Interracial relationships have come a long way now, so it wouldn't be as big of a deal if LeBron did do it; it would be viewed more as simply cheating and not betraying one's race.

 

[Blackjack200]

Now that I think about it I do remember some folks had some similar irrational feelings towards Jordan's greatness as well. The difference is that it was more localized. We didn't have global chat available at our fingertips to help develop the type of mob mentality that exists today.

I can remember people saying that Jordan was a ball hog who only scored so much because he took so many shots.

I'm pretty sure that was between three peats.

 

[smackababy]

I can remember people saying that Jordan was a ball hog who only scored so much because he took so many shots.

I'm pretty sure that was between three peats.

Eh, Jordan averaged just under 50% shooting efficiency his entire career. I'd say, let him take as many shots as he wants. He also averaged 5 assists per game in the regular season, and 5.7 in the post season. Hardly someone not passing the ball. =)

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, didn't mean to suggest that those were legit criticisms, more that they're similar to the crap that follows Lebron around.

 

[smackababy]

Yeah, didn't mean to suggest that those were legit criticisms, more that they're similar to the crap that follows Lebron around.

I was just reinforcing the idea that people who dislike Jordan and Lebron are morons. =)

 

[Kelvrick]

I'm not sure if you're serious, but they'll point out, with some justification, that Jordan never lost in the Finals, indeed, never even went to a game 7. James is already 2-3 in the Finals. It's absolutely astonishing that he won two three-peats while not playing between them.

That said, if James manages to win this series, I think it will be his most compelling case for GOAT. Jordan never did anything like this, never carried a team so completely, never carried such a pedestrian team so far. Arguing about if he "could have" is as meaningless as wondering if James would have won Jordan's championships if he were in Jordan's place. Jordan didn't. James can't. They would both have extraordinary accomplishment that the other doesn't.



I don't understand this at all. Have you really compared James against, say Jordan, who is an absolute dickhead? James certainly made some mistakes when he went to the Heat and when he lost in the Finals in 2011, but on the balance, a very very likeable athlete.

When did I say I like Jordan? I actually don't like a lot of professional athletes because they usually turn out to be giant dicks. But then I don't really care that much and am often over it once I change the channel after the game. People get too invested in a sport they have nothing to do with, especially with players and teams who really don't give a shit about the fans aside from the money they make off of the fan base.

 

[manly]

I'm not sure if you're serious, but they'll point out, with some justification, that Jordan never lost in the Finals, indeed, never even went to a game 7. James is already 2-3 in the Finals. It's absolutely astonishing that he won two three-peats while not playing between them.

That said, if James manages to win this series, I think it will be his most compelling case for GOAT. Jordan never did anything like this, never carried a team so completely, never carried such a pedestrian team so far. Arguing about if he "could have" is as meaningless as wondering if James would have won Jordan's championships if he were in Jordan's place. Jordan didn't. James can't. They would both have extraordinary accomplishment that the other doesn't.

You made the case that Jordan is the GOAT (hands-down IMO), but then you're saying LeBron has a good case too if he wins this series? The Cavs still have a ton of work to do against a very good (but inexperienced) team, but if they win, I think this vaults James into top-5 territory. Besides MJ, there's still a logjam near the top with Bill Russell, Kareem and Wilt (not necessarily in that order).

I don't understand this at all. Have you really compared James against, say Jordan, who is an absolute dickhead? James certainly made some mistakes when he went to the Heat and when he lost in the Finals in 2011, but on the balance, a very very likeable athlete.

Agreed, James has some mild annoyances but he and Steph Curry are both very likeable superstars.

In terms of professional athletes, LeBron is one of the most likable. He hasn't done anything really bad and stays out of trouble and spotlight in the media (other than his play). He hasn't been cheating on his wife with white women. He hasn't been out gambling. He hasn't told management to get players off the team because they couldn't help them win.

Not sure if you're implying he's cheated on his wife with non-white women, but I'd be surprised if LeBron has been faithful to just one woman since high school. That would cement his case for GOAT lol.

 

[JujuFish]

James is already 2-3 in the Finals.

I don't watch much basketball so I could very well be wrong, but isn't James 2-2 in the finals? I thought he had only made it with the Heat before this year.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I don't watch much basketball so I could very well be wrong, but isn't James 2-2 in the finals? I thought he had only made it with the Heat before this year.

He made it with the Cavs in 2007 and was swept by the Spurs.

 

[flunky nassau]

Hmmm, I think the Warriors are either nervous or/and folding under pressure--they are a young team. Did you notice that only after they were down by 20 that Curry started sinking his shots? He started playing more freely because he had nothing to lose.

They need to shake the nerves to stand a chance.

 

[HendrixFan]

The Warriors are clearly playing like it is their first Finals. Blatt is outcoaching Kerr to an embarrassing degree. Lebron is outplaying anyone on GS to an embarrassing degree.

The Warriors season was built on a beautiful flowing offense, and while the Cavs have done a tremendous job of taking them out of it, the Warriors players have abandoned their process. At the most macro level the Cavs are slowing the game down, crashing the boards, and trying to limit fast breaks. Defensively they are totally in on stopping Curry, secondly in on Klay, then lastly doing a great job on help defense at the rim.

Losing the fast breaks the Warriors haven't been able to rev the engine. They should be better in the half court but have been herded into the ISO game. With more effective coaching from Kerr the Warriors would snap back into their offensive sets. With more experienced players they would snap back into what they do.

Kerr's best move was going super small in the game one OT and blitzing the Cavs. Since then Blatt has had the answer by going super big against the super small lineup and crushing it. The David Lee substitution came as Draymond Green has continued to struggle and seems to be playing too deep into his own head. Lee allowed Steph Curry to do more things on offense and he started to get a little hot but I don't see that as being sustainable offensively. Lee has hardly played all year and I think the Cavs were caught off guard. Watch for the Cavs to sink more with the Curry/Lee PNR. Defensively Lee is a huge dropoff and the Cavs were already more than prepared to exploit that.

At this point the Warriors must win 3 of 4 games with the 4 being split home and away. Since the Xs & Os are in the Cavs favor to such a tremendous degree (doing exactly what they want every minute) the Warriors best hope is to wear down the Cavs. Game four is (always) pivotal but the Warriors really need to work on speeding things up and trying to exhaust the Cavs. They need to think beyond an individual possession and think big picture.

The Warriors players looked frustrated and dejected leaving the court after game 3. None of them have played like they want it like Lebron has played this series. He is more talented and has a better head for the game, and putting his desire for this championship in the mix with that and he is playing far above Curry or Thompson. Bogut particularly has been a no show, and aside from being outright negated by Mozgov, he has been picking up stupid fouls and ceding the paint for Lebron most of the game by simply not being on the floor.

If the Warriors players don't come out completely locked in within the first 5 minutes and show not just shots falling, but the intensity and aggression to match what Lebron will bring out; this series is over.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

If the Warriors players don't come out completely locked in within the first 5 minutes and show not just shots falling, but the intensity and aggression to match what Lebron will bring out; this series is over.

Remember one month ago when the Warriors had been badly beaten up by Memphis and dropped down to 1-2 in the series? Everyone was starting to write them off. And then they went and did Warriors-y things and won each of the final three games by double digits. So, yeah, they definitely need to come out quick from the opening tip tonight. But hopefully we've learned our lesson about writing them off after a couple of bad losses. They've got too much talent, and it seems incredibly unlikely that it won't start clicking at some point. And if they win tonight, you've still got to consider them the favorites to win the series, no? Do we really think the Cavs take another win on the road? I think you could make the argument that this game is more important for Cleveland than GS; yes, it's unlikely that GS comes back from 1-3 down, but it's even more unlikely that the Cavs win again in Oakland. But this series has thrown everything I thought about basketball completely upside-down, so maybe from here on out the home team loses every game. I don't know anymore.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Remember one month ago when the Warriors had been badly beaten up by Memphis and dropped down to 1-2 in the series? Everyone was starting to write them off.

no they didn't, and they're not doing it now with the Cavs either, even with LeBron with a 2-1 lead the Warriors are still given better odds for winning tonight and the series overall

plus, in that series with the Grizzlies they rolled them in game 1 unlike what happened with the Cavs.

I'm not saying the Warriors can't or won't win 3 straight like they did against the Grizzlies, but its definitely not a particularly analogous situation other than the W/L results.

 

[HendrixFan]

Agree above in that the Warriors weren't written off in the Memphis series. Being down 2-1 in any series isn't difficult to overcome, it is how the games have played out that speaks to the Warriors going forward. The Warriors aren't playing "poorly". They are being outcoached and outplayed. They are being actively taken out of the things they do well and are unable to control the game.

The Warriors have a huge advantage in depth that despite everything working against them right now means they "should" win the series. If the Cavs win tonight the 3-1 lead is commanding though. The Cavs can't keep dictating the game and not win the series.

After game two, I still thought the Cavs had zero chance. After game three, I see game four as a must win for the Cavs to have a chance.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Agree above in that the Warriors weren't written off in the Memphis series. Being down 2-1 in any series isn't difficult to overcome, it is how the games have played out that speaks to the Warriors going forward. The Warriors aren't playing "poorly". They are being outcoached and outplayed. They are being actively taken out of the things they do well and are unable to control the game.

The Warriors have a huge advantage in depth that despite everything working against them right now means they "should" win the series. If the Cavs win tonight the 3-1 lead is commanding though. The Cavs can't keep dictating the game and not win the series.

After game two, I still thought the Cavs had zero chance. After game three, I see game four as a must win for the Cavs to have a chance.

I agree that this is tougher, but let's not forget that the Warriors were pretty well controlled in Game 2 of that memphis series, and then got absolutely dominated in Game 3

 

[HendrixFan]

I agree that this is tougher, but let's not forget that the Warriors were pretty well controlled in Game 2 of that memphis series, and then got absolutely dominated in Game 3

To me the biggest difference is that the Cavs clearly have the best player on the floor. The Warriors had the best two players on the floor in the Memphis series. The Warriors needed to step up and show more resolve and the Memphis series would take care of itself.

Lebron has been playing his best "shoulder the load" series he has had since the Orlando series in 09 or so when he put up 38-8-8 on the way to a 6 game series loss.

At the end of the day I thought the Warriors could lose to the Grizzlies but didn't think they would.

 

[smackababy]

GS is doing what they need to do. Make someone other than LeBron beat them. This game might just be the best of the series!