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*** Official *** 2012 MLB Season Thread!!

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Ozzie being Ozzie. He'll apologize this morning and I'm sure things will go back to "normal" for Ozzie.


Nice fast start for the Mets. They are what they are but I think they should be a fun and competitive team to watch. Its nice to see a lineup that is just about all home grown talent (sans the horrible Jason Bay). I'm not a Pelfrey fan but he was alright last night.


Yu Darvish had a bad first inning but settled down to get his first MLB win. Speaking of Texas..Kinsler and the Rangers agree on a 5 year extension worth $75 million.
 
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They should have deported his ass to Cuba. Who the fuck is retarded enough to make a pro-Castro comment when 99% of the cuban population in Miami ran away from his dictatorship?
 
rcpratt said:
Tigers are going to make me happy this year 🙂
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I know it's early and I hate to say this being a huge Rays fan, but I think Detroit is going to be the team to beat in the AL this year. :\

I hope the Rays can take two out of three from ya this series, but I'll be happy with one out of three.
 
RavenSEAL said:
They should have deported his ass to Cuba. Who the fuck is retarded enough to make a pro-Castro comment when 99% of the cuban population in Miami ran away from his dictatorship?
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Keep in mind that in 2005/6 he appeared on Castro's buddy's radio show (Hugo Chavez) twice, praising him. The dude is a commie to the core so not surprising his true colors are showing. Can't stand Ozzie.
 
the way ESPN is pushing the ozzie story i bet he gets fired before it is all said and done. plus the marlins need to consider their fan base
 
More good news in Detroit, as it turns out that VMart didn't need ACL reconstruction surgery after all, and could return as early as August or September from his microfracture surgery. That lineup would be fun.
 
SP33Demon said:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/s...san-francisco-giants-work-extension-matt-cain

Unfreaking real money for a guy who is a number two starter. For career, BRef is showing a 107 tOPS+ on the road and a 94 at home. This guy is a product of SF's cavernous stadium.

SF is paying a #2, #1 money and I'm wondering if a part of that is to reward him for bringing home a ring for them just as the Phillies did with Howard and Lidge after 2008.
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Matt Cain is 27 years old, and been very good and consistent over his career, such that he'd be one of the best no. 2 starters in the game, and is in my opinion, one of the 20 best starting pitchers in baseball. Definitely not a hometown discount, but the Giants certainly would've had to pay more to keep him if he went to free agency.

I find it silly to suggest he's a product of SF's "cavernous" ballpark. First of all, it's not a cavernous ballpark, it's actually not a huge ballpark at all. It does suppress home runs because of the cold wind coming off the bay, but when it gets warm on some summer afternoons and the wind dies, it turns into a bandbox because of its dimensions. Second of all, his stats are still excellent on the road, so while he might play better at home, he also is a top pitcher on the road as well. It's disingenuous to say that he's jut a product of his home ballpark.

Of course, the best part is that the Phillies will certainly have to pay more if they want to keep Hamels, especially after paying some terrible contracts to Howard and Papelbon. 😉
 
IAteYourMother said:
Matt Cain is 27 years old, and been very good and consistent over his career, such that he'd be one of the best no. 2 starters in the game, and is in my opinion, one of the 20 best starting pitchers in baseball. Definitely not a hometown discount, but the Giants certainly would've had to pay more to keep him if he went to free agency.

I find it silly to suggest he's a product of SF's "cavernous" ballpark. First of all, it's not a cavernous ballpark, it's actually not a huge ballpark at all. It does suppress home runs because of the cold wind coming off the bay, but when it gets warm on some summer afternoons and the wind dies, it turns into a bandbox because of its dimensions. Second of all, his stats are still excellent on the road, so while he might play better at home, he also is a top pitcher on the road as well. It's disingenuous to say that he's jut a product of his home ballpark.

Of course, the best part is that the Phillies will certainly have to pay more if they want to keep Hamels, especially after paying some terrible contracts to Howard and Papelbon. 😉
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Yes, Cain is way way better at home vice on the road. Do you think I'd post something without first checking the splits? Whatever the reason (park, his mood, the fans), it matters not.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cainma01&year=Career&t=p

Cain's tOPS+ (higher = worse, baseline = 100) is 107 on the road vs 94 at home over 5,479 at bats (statistically significant). This magnifies how much better at home he is vice on the road. Keep in mind that it's more common for this ratio to deviate from the norm (100) in true pitcher's parks. Look at Kershaw: 108/92 in Dodger stadium, Trevor Cahill 106/95 at the Oakland Col, Gio Gonzalez 107/93 also at Oakland, Carpenter 106/94, etc.

I'll give you that SF isn't a true pitcher's park, but middle of the pack closest to the Nats:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/566215/image008e.gif

Technically, AT&T Park is ranked 15th easiest to hit in. That actually hurts your argument since Cain should have closer home/away tOPS+ numbers. For example, Lincecum is equally good on the road vs home (100/100).

All in all, I never disputed that Cain wasn't a very good #2. My issue is that his contract means he's now making twice as much as #1's such as Kershaw/Johnson/Carpenter, i.e. the Giants have now crippled themselves with such a contract and won't be able to spend much on the sorely needed offense.
 
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SP33Demon said:
Yes, Cain is way way better at home vice on the road. Do you think I'd post something without first checking the splits? Whatever the reason (park, his mood, the fans), it matters not.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cainma01&year=Career&t=p

Cain's tOPS+ (higher = worse, baseline = 100) is 107 on the road vs 94 at home over 5,479 at bats (statistically significant). This magnifies how much better at home he is vice on the road. Keep in mind that it's more common for this ratio to deviate from the norm (100) in true pitcher's parks. Look at Kershaw: 108/92 in Dodger stadium, Trevor Cahill 106/95 at the Oakland Col, Gio Gonzalez 107/93 also at Oakland, Carpenter 106/94, etc.

I'll give you that SF isn't a true pitcher's park, but middle of the pack closest to the Nats:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/566215/image008e.gif

Technically, AT&T Park is ranked 15th easiest to hit in. That actually hurts your argument since Cain should have closer home/away tOPS+ numbers. For example, Lincecum is equally good on the road vs home (100/100).

All in all, I never disputed that Cain wasn't a very good #2. My issue is that his contract means he's now making twice as much as #1's such as Kershaw/Johnson/Carpenter, i.e. the Giants have now crippled themselves with such a contract and won't be able to spend much on the sorely needed offense.
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I conceded the point that Cain plays better at home. My point is that he's still a great pitcher on the road, it just happens he's even better at home. In other words, just because a player exhibits home/road splits, doesn't mean he wouldn't be an excellent player in another ballpark. That was my point, not that Cain doesn't play better at home.

Secondly, you're failing to account for many different variables when evaluating the contract, including team control, age, health. Kershaw might be the best pitcher in baseball right now, but that doesn't mean that every other pitcher making more than Kershaw is overpaid. He's barely getting into arbitration right now. In other words, those pitchers you identified are being underpaid. Of course, I wish the Giants had bought out some arbitration and free agency years years ago, but they didn't, so now they're paying for it.

Secondly, Cain has been impressively durable, never missing time. As opposed to guys like Josh Johnson who have missed significant time due to injuries, including just last year. Pitchers are always fickle creatures, but Cain is as sure of a bet as anyone to continue to be a horse.

Thirdly, he's young. He's only 27 years old without injury, which suggests he's got a good chance as anyone to continue his previous production. Carpenter is very old, so you're obviously not paying someone like him a monster contract.

And finally, I think great starting pitching free agents are hard to find, and teams are willing to shell out the big bucks, like the Red Sox/Yankees. Of course, they're trying to reduce payroll, so there's one team that looms large this upcoming free agency period: The 2 billion+ LA Dodgers.

I don't think the contract was a bargain, but I think it was a fair deal. Also, with a TV deal that scales with revenue, Zito/Huff/Rowand's contracts coming off the books soon, and the annual stadium debt coming off the books, the Giants should have plenty of money to extend their current stars and perhaps dip into the free agency pool in the future.
 
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If the Cubs play their cards right (no pun intended) and get a little lucky (Garza has a killer first half) they are going to command a king's ransom when they trade hime to a pitching-hungry contender.

They might be able to restock that farm system in one fell swoop.
 
IAteYourMother said:
I conceded the point that Cain plays better at home. My point is that he's still a great pitcher on the road, it just happens he's even better at home. In other words, just because a player exhibits home/road splits, doesn't mean he wouldn't be an excellent player in another ballpark. That was my point, not that Cain doesn't play better at home.

Secondly, you're failing to account for many different variables when evaluating the contract, including team control, age, health. Kershaw might be the best pitcher in baseball right now, but that doesn't mean that every other pitcher making more than Kershaw is overpaid. He's barely getting into arbitration right now. In other words, those pitchers you identified are being underpaid. Of course, I wish the Giants had bought out some arbitration and free agency years years ago, but they didn't, so now they're paying for it.

Secondly, Cain has been impressively durable, never missing time. As opposed to guys like Josh Johnson who have missed significant time due to injuries, including just last year. Pitchers are always fickle creatures, but Cain is as sure of a bet as anyone to continue to be a horse.

Thirdly, he's young. He's only 27 years old without injury, which suggests he's got a good chance as anyone to continue his previous production. Carpenter is very old, so you're obviously not paying someone like him a monster contract.

And finally, I think great starting pitching free agents are hard to find, and teams are willing to shell out the big bucks, like the Red Sox/Yankees. Of course, they're trying to reduce payroll, so there's one team that looms large this upcoming free agency period: The 2 billion+ LA Dodgers.

I don't think the contract was a bargain, but I think it was a fair deal. Also, with a TV deal that scales with revenue, Zito/Huff/Rowand's contracts coming off the books soon, and the annual stadium debt coming off the books, the Giants should have plenty of money to extend their current stars and perhaps dip into the free agency pool in the future.
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Can't say I disagree with most of what you said, Cain may have been the best proven #2 free agent to hit the market in awhile. It's good that you mentioned durability, because I'm very very high on that factor so Josh Johnson is a good point (although rumors are saying he will command even more than Cain for the simple fact he is a #1).

However, I'm still not completely convinced it was a "fair deal", especially considering that deal pays more than Halladay's (and Lee's) deals in their primes. Age isn't a huge factor when talking "per year pay", only length of contract. Granted, Halladay and Lee took a hometown discount but still - that's still a chunk of change for a #2. Cain's splits on the road could be better when getting paid more than the best pitchers in MLB like Halladay/King Felix. I do agree we should also consider the inflation rate for good pitching since it's rare.

We'll see what Hamels gets since they are very similar statistically and proven #2's - although Hamels may command more since he's a lefty pitching in a tougher park. Assuming Hamels can keep up his excellence this year.

One other thing, Cain did have SF by the balls - especially considering AZ got 23 yr old Cahill (already a proven #2) in the offseason. Not sure what SF's farm system is like, but if they would have gotten Cahill or Gonzalez from Oakland they would have had a lot more leverage. Instead, they had to up the ante in the "arms race", so I understand why they had to pay what they did. Like you said, it wasn't a bargain, but maybe they don't care since they have extra weight coming off the books.
 
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