Official 2011-2012 NBA Playoffs Thread

[Atomic Playboy]

I'm shocked by how poorly Harden's been playing. He didn't have a great game 1, but he didn't need to with the rest of the Thunder playing well. He was good in game 2... and then he fell off the cliff in games 3 and 4. Without him playing at a high level, the Tunder are simply outgunned by Miami. I figured this thing was a wrap given the troubles Miami had with Boston coupled by the relative ease with which OKC dispatched San Antonio, but clearly I was wrong.

 

[slayer202]

Don't underestimate the pressure that they have to deal with. No matter how good they are, they are young inexperienced players going up against Lebron and Dwade.

 

[Retro Rob]

OKC isn't better than they are showing. They don't play better defense than they are currently playing, and their ISO offense you are watching is what they have trotted out the last few years (a few games against the Spurs notwithstanding).

There isn't another level that they have played at that they are failing to reach. They have to change themselves and redesign what they do to play better. It remains to be seen if they see that or want that.

Two reasons why I think the Heat win on Thursday: they are in Miami and don't want to go back to OKC, and the Thunder have that stink of despair/hopelessness on them.

Maybe you're right. I don't watch much of OKC.

However, its really about the Heat playing to win more so than OKC. I hate when people say the Heat "wanted it more". Its asinine to assume that both teams don't equally want to win a ring with the same amount of "want".

I would say OKC isn't as focused. Not that they want it less.

 

[Blackjack200]

I'm shocked by how poorly Harden's been playing. He didn't have a great game 1, but he didn't need to with the rest of the Thunder playing well. He was good in game 2... and then he fell off the cliff in games 3 and 4. Without him playing at a high level, the Tunder are simply outgunned by Miami. I figured this thing was a wrap given the troubles Miami had with Boston coupled by the relative ease with which OKC dispatched San Antonio, but clearly I was wrong.

You really thought OKC would roll Miami after Lebron went into god mode in game 6?

I thought OKC had the edge with Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, but Boston is still a damn good team with Rondo, Pierce, and KG and I was pretty impressed with the way LBJ took over that series when Miami's back was to the wall.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

You really thought OKC would roll Miami after Lebron went into god mode in game 6?

I thought OKC had the edge with Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, but Boston is still a damn good team with Rondo, Pierce, and KG and I was pretty impressed with the way LBJ took over that series when Miami's back was to the wall.

LeBron is having a monster series, but the Heat aren't winning 3-1 in this series without Battier, Cole and Chalmers having scoring eruptions which they haven't had all season. You have to expect LeBron and Wade to put up 50+ a night between them; that's how the Heat are constructed. But when Battier is shooting 70% at the 3 point line through 3 games or Mario Chalmers drops 25 on you? You don't plan for that. And without it, these games are breaking OKC's way. Everyone on Miami is stepping up big when it matters while Harden is playing the shrinking violet at exactly the wrong time.

 

[Retro Rob]

LeBron is having a monster series, but the Heat aren't winning 3-1 in this series without Battier, Cole and Chalmers having scoring eruptions which they haven't had all season. You have to expect LeBron and Wade to put up 50+ a night between them; that's how the Heat are constructed. But when Battier is shooting 70% at the 3 point line through 3 games or Mario Chalmers drops 25 on you? You don't plan for that. And without it, these games are breaking OKC's way. Everyone on Miami is stepping up big when it matters while Harden is playing the shrinking violet at exactly the wrong time.

Lebron isn't winning these games without them. Glad someone has the blinders off and is not "godding" James as the only reason why the Heat are up 3-1.

This is the reason why he failed in Cleveland right? Not having adequate help?

 

[vi edit]

Lebron isn't winning these games without them. Glad someone has the blinders off and is not "godding" James as the only reason why the Heat are up 3-1.

Miami can win a series without Bosh. They would likely win a series without Wade. No way they win without Lebron. It's not a blinders thing. The guy has an all around game and an ability to adapt that no other player in the league can do.

 

[Retro Rob]

Miami can win a series without Bosh. They would likely win a series without Wade. No way they win without Lebron. It's not a blinders thing. The guy has an all around game and an ability to adapt that no other player in the league can do.

... and Cleveland couldn't get a ring with his "ability to adapt that no other player in the league can do". In fact, they were embarrassed by San Antonio back in what... 07 with a good Lebron James?

Take away Wade, Bosh, Battier and replace them with Shaq, Mo Williams, and Antwan Jamison. Would they have even beat Boston?

I think even you can admit to that. They can't win a Finals series with just James either. History proved that. That's why he bolted to Miami. He knew good and well that he'd be spinning his wheels up in Cleveland. Goodness, some of you guys act like he's god or something.... that people need him, he doesn't need them...:whiste:

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Miami can win a series without Bosh. They would likely win a series without Wade. No way they win without Lebron. It's not a blinders thing. The guy has an all around game and an ability to adapt that no other player in the league can do.

I disagree with that. LeBron is obviously the best player in the league, and when he's on his game, he's virtually unstoppable. But one man doesn't win a championship in the NBA. Even Jordan had Pippen (and Grant and Rodman and Kerr, etc.). Without Bosh, Miami was taken to 7 games by a Boston team that's well past their prime. He's not in the same class as Wade or LeBron, but he's still an All-star, he still can knock down shots, and he gets you boards and extra posessions. LeBron can't win a championship on his own; we saw that several years in Cleveland where he leads his team to dominate the regular season but they can't come through in the playoffs because one man can't play against five by himself.

So, yes, LeBron is the most important. But you need Wade and Bosh if you're trying to win a championship with such a sharp drop off in talent after those three. Seriously, Battier or Chalmers as the fourth best player on a championship team? The lack of depth in Miami is disturbing, and getting rid of Wade or Bosh compounds the issue.

 

[Retro Rob]

I disagree with that. LeBron is obviously the best player in the league, and when he's on his game, he's virtually unstoppable. But one man doesn't win a championship in the NBA. Even Jordan had Pippen (and Grant and Rodman and Kerr, etc.). Without Bosh, Miami was taken to 7 games by a Boston team that's well past their prime. He's not in the same class as Wade or LeBron, but he's still an All-star, he still can knock down shots, and he gets you boards and extra posessions. LeBron can't win a championship on his own; we saw that several years in Cleveland where he leads his team to dominate the regular season but they can't come through in the playoffs because one man can't play against five by himself.

So, yes, LeBron is the most important. But you need Wade and Bosh if you're trying to win a championship with such a sharp drop off in talent after those three. Seriously, Battier or Chalmers as the fourth best player on a championship team? The lack of depth in Miami is disturbing, and getting rid of Wade or Bosh compounds the issue.

Good post.

You're not ripping Lebron by saying he needs help, because..... its true. he does. See: "Cavs" 2003-2010.

 

[HendrixFan]

But when Battier is shooting 70% at the 3 point line through 3 games or Mario Chalmers drops 25 on you? You don't plan for that. And without it, these games are breaking OKC's way.

Those two things are by design. Or at least the outlet valve for the Thunder's defensive approach, let those guys beat you. Durant was getting killed by Lebron so they put him on Chalmers, to which Chalmers took as a ticket to success. And rightfully so.

The Heat have been getting open looks against the Thunder so it should come as a surprise that they are nailing some of those shots. It isn't like Battier had anybody within 10 feet of him when he was taking those threes.

If OKC was holding the perimeter then Battier doesn't shoot lights out and Chalmers doesn't pop off for 25, but then again that means Lebron is putting up 40+ and Wade is likely going for 30+.

I've said it before, the Thunder have the tools defensively but they just don't play defense. Not for more than a few minutes at a time. They need a real plan out there other than let Sefo and Ibaka do their thing while we hope the length and speed of the rest of the guys defending makes up for the lack of technique or cohesion. Not a solid plan for success.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Those two things are by design. Or at least the outlet valve for the Thunder's defensive approach, let those guys beat you. Durant was getting killed by Lebron so they put him on Chalmers, to which Chalmers took as a ticket to success. And rightfully so.

It may be by design, but just because you draw up a play doesn't mean that the execution will always work. Just take a look at Harden. He's normally a knock-down shooter, he's getting tons of open looks, and he's missing uncontested fast break layups. Battier probably stuggles to shoot 70% from beyond the arc in practice, let alone in consecutive games. And Chalmers? He's normally an excellent spot-up shooter. But he scored his points at the rim last night, slicing through the defense repeatedly and scoring highlight reel layups. He's shown he can do that, but that's hardly been the Heat's gameplan throughout the regular season or the playoffs. The Heat role players are playing huge right now, which is ideal for Miami, because without them, they aren't up 3-1.

The Thunder's defense is letting them down. But Miami still finds itself running too many ISOs and settling for long jumpers at times, which is the main reason they got blown out in the first quarter last night. When they're running basic pick and rolls with random cuts to the basket or, better yet, getting the ball to James in the post, their offense has looked unstoppable. If OKC can't keep James out of the post, they're finished.

 

[vi edit]

I'm surprised OKC hasn't toyed with a Zone D for a bit, just to change things up.

 

[HendrixFan]

I'm surprised OKC hasn't toyed with a Zone D for a bit, just to change things up.

Probably a discipline thing. The Celtics and Mavs run the best zone in the NBA, and both are smart and well coached teams. I wonder how many holes would be in OKC's zone.

As far as Harden, I think he is getting worn on the defensive end. That bunny he missed in the fourth seemed like he just lacked the lift, it was a play he would have normally thrown down. He doesn't seem to explode off the screen like usual either.

 

[Ackmed]

NEW FLASH: Everyone needs teammates to help them win. Do you think Jordan would have won without Pippen, Grant, Paxon, etc? Nope. The fact is, James is the best player in the league, and dominating this series. Get over it. When great players of the past, and sports writers who have been around forever, go on and on about James, it's with good reason. They know far more about this sport than anyone here.

Haters gonna hate though. So much Heat and James hate, it's funny. So many people want him to fail.

 

[QueBert]

NEW FLASH: Everyone needs teammates to help them win. Do you think Jordan would have won without Pippen, Grant, Paxon, etc? Nope. The fact is, James is the best player in the league, and dominating this series. Get over it. When great players of the past, and sports writers who have been around forever, go on and on about James, it's with good reason. They know far more about this sport than anyone here.

Haters gonna hate though. So much Heat and James hate, it's funny. So many people want him to fail.

Prior to this season "who cares if he has back to back MVP's? no rings = James sucks."

then

He wins another MVP "it doesn't matter because he's not winning a ring this year, the Spurs are the greatest team evar!"

If they win tonight I'm sure all they'll say is

"so what he was season + Finals MVP, he only has 1 ring and he'll never get another. So that means Kobe still far better.

imho before he retires he'll match Kobe for rings and have at least another 3 season MVP's and a few in the finals. Yet people will still refer to him as Lechoke and still complain that he traveled even on a play when he's passed the ball and takes an instant jumper without a single step.

 

[HendrixFan]

Most players hit their prime between 28-32. Lebron is still 27 so he will still have quite a few good years ahead barring some obscene injury. With his size and passing ability, he can hang around the league by really sinking into a post game for years beyond his prime.

He may not surpass Kobe's championship count, but then again he didn't have 7 foot HoF centers playing alongside him.

 

[vi edit]

OKC's help and defense rotations are turrible.

 

[HendrixFan]

Tons of fouls are being called, both ways. This game could drag out if that continues.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Harden has outflopped Derek Fisher status and finally achieved Manu Ginobili status

 

[HendrixFan]

Harden has outflopped Derek Fisher status and finally achieved Manu Ginobili status

But can he get to Robert Horry status?

 

[vi edit]

Harden has outflopped Derek Fisher status and finally achieved Manu Ginobili status

I'm seriously just waiting for somebody to go Bynum on his ass and knock him the f' out. Flop that beardy!

 

[IAteYourMother]

Did Battier just drive on KD from the 3 point line and lay it in?

 

[Blackjack200]

Did Battier just drive on KD from the 3 point line and lay it in?

And get hammered with no call? Yeah.

 

[HendrixFan]

Perkins has been doing those same screens for 15 minutes and they just now decide it is illegal? They even called Cole for slamming into Westbrook when he was screened into him.

It isn't often you see a team being as aggressive as the Heat are tonight have half the FTs of the road team, but here we are.