Official 2011-2012 NBA Playoffs Thread

[Schfifty Five]

are you saying you blame it on the refs then?

Nope. I'm saying that between two good teams, streaks will happen and a 17 point lead can be evaporated in minutes...especially if that lead is within the first quarter.

The bad reffing is a completely different story.

 

[NeoV]

someone tell Stephen A that Durant didn't take more than 3 shots in the 4th quarter - because Westbrook took a ton of shots....

 

[HendrixFan]

Chalmers "I knew with KD on me I'd have alot of open looks".

Ouch.

 

[Awkward]

so glad the thunder are being knocked back down to size

 

[HendrixFan]

so glad the thunder are being knocked back down to size

They have a good core of guys but they don't play defense consistently and they have no offensive rhythm. They started to pass the ball against the Spurs but abandoned it as soon as things got tight against the Heat.

Lets see how they improve in the offseason and if they listen to their veterans (Perkins, Fisher) who have been telling them team ball is needed to win at this level.

 

[QueBert]

I have not seen OKC play this badly for this long since they became bonafide contenders.

I don't know what the fuck is wrong with them. And, no - it's not the Heat.

Thunders just not as good of a team, they're great but will never beat a Heat team that's on their game. There's a reason James got more 1st place votes for MVP than Durant got 2nd. Wade's clearly better than Westbrook, and Bosh is superior to Ibaka. The only hope they'd ever have of beating Miami would be if James plays like a mental midget. They're not playing badly, the Heat's just playing so well they make other teams look bad. You don't score 98 in a game you played badly in. They'll be contenders for years to come, but imho Miami beats them 7/10 games, which means in a playoff/finals situation, minus an injury to Wade or James, Heat will beat them easily. Hell even if James can't play the next game, if Chalmers steps up again like he did last night Heat still win.

in this thread when the last round was still going on what I saw most was "it doesn't matter if it's Thunder or Spurs who win, they'll both easily expose the Heat"

 

[NeoV]

"Wade's clearly better than Westbrook"

"Hell even if James can't play the next game, if Chalmers steps up again like he did last night Heat still win."

/What?

 

[QueBert]

"Wade's clearly better than Westbrook"

"Hell even if James can't play the next game, if Chalmers steps up again like he did last night Heat still win."

/What?

Wade's a better player than Westbrook, it's not hard to understand. Chalmers was a beast last night and even though he's a different position if James was out due to his leg Mario would end up getting the ball more and making more shots. Even if he wasn't the top scorer, he imho looked the most impressive out there last night. None of that matters though because James will play, and will hit 30+ points again to win the finals MVP and have what was clearly one of the best play off showings ever.

 

[Awkward]

They have a good core of guys but they don't play defense consistently and they have no offensive rhythm. They started to pass the ball against the Spurs but abandoned it as soon as things got tight against the Heat.

Lets see how they improve in the offseason and if they listen to their veterans (Perkins, Fisher) who have been telling them team ball is needed to win at this level.

This really comes down to mentality. They've been taking advantage of teams that just look run-down. With the Spurs and Lakers it was the age, and the Lakers just seemed to have some really big internal issues all season long.

The Heat really look like they WANT to win, and the Thunder lack what it takes to compete. Not even speaking about talent.

Westbrook is too stubborn to adjust anything, and I believe the Heat have gotten under their skin bad. Look at Serge Ibaka resulting to insults on Lebron James out of the game.

 

[Retro Rob]

Thunders just not as good of a team, they're great but will never beat a Heat team that's on their game. There's a reason James got more 1st place votes for MVP than Durant got 2nd. Wade's clearly better than Westbrook, and Bosh is superior to Ibaka. The only hope they'd ever have of beating Miami would be if James plays like a mental midget. They're not playing badly, the Heat's just playing so well they make other teams look bad. You don't score 98 in a game you played badly in. They'll be contenders for years to come, but imho Miami beats them 7/10 games, which means in a playoff/finals situation, minus an injury to Wade or James, Heat will beat them easily. Hell even if James can't play the next game, if Chalmers steps up again like he did last night Heat still win.

in this thread when the last round was still going on what I saw most was "it doesn't matter if it's Thunder or Spurs who win, they'll both easily expose the Heat"

Wade's a better player than Westbrook, it's not hard to understand. Chalmers was a beast last night and even though he's a different position if James was out due to his leg Mario would end up getting the ball more and making more shots. Even if he wasn't the top scorer, he imho looked the most impressive out there last night. None of that matters though because James will play, and will hit 30+ points again to win the finals MVP and have what was clearly one of the best play off showings ever.

This kind of Heat fan front running is the reason why a lot of people root against the Heat.

I don't think there's any dispute the Heat's stars are better than OKC's.. even if the Heat were down 3-1, James/Wade/Bosh are better than Durant/Westbrook/[insert player here].

However, I know that age isn't gonna be a scapegoat excuse for OKC, but Miami is the experienced team, more hungrier team, and mentally scarred from what happened last year.

The bad reffing is there, but the games are still close. OKC needs to make clutch shots period. Heat are getting the bulk of the calls, but at least the games are close. Miami's playing better in the clutch.

 

[Retro Rob]

Oh, and thanks Wade. Your back looked more than fine after that Tom Cruise acting job...:whiste:

 

[slayer202]

Doc Rivers was able to out-coach the Heat but the Thunder are just getting exposed. The Heat are too experienced and it's making a big difference. They are playing consistently and they step it up when it matters, during the times where other teams have given up against the Thunder's big runs. They push the Thunder up against the wall and of course the Thunder make mistakes.

I just hope that this Thunder team's style isn't turning into something similar to the Nash/Amare Suns, not built for the playoffs(well, finals)

 

[NeoV]

QueBert - Wade WAS a better player than Westbrook, but that's CLEARLY not the case anymore - it certainly isn't the case in this series.

Perhaps Wade is still bothered by a knee that was drained a few weeks ago - but right now he's not the explosive player he was as recently as last season.

Westbrook, on the other hand - is the most athletic point guard in the history of the NBA - and as was on display last night - can pretty much get to the rim against anyone. He's not a great passer, particularly in the half-court game, and I think he'll get to the line more as he learns to worry a bit less about avoiding contact, but he's able to get away with it thanks to his amazing athleticism.

Saying the Heat would win ANY game in this series without LeBron though - that's just plain silly. The Heat are barely winning these games with LeBron playing very well, I have a hard time believing anyone really thinks they would have won, or will win, any games against OKC without him.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

QueBert - Wade WAS a better player than Westbrook, but that's CLEARLY not the case anymore - it certainly isn't the case in this series.

This. Wade might be hurt or just breaking down I don't know but he is not on Westbrook's level.
Westbrook to me looks like the most improved player in the league and thats saying a lot considering he was pretty good last year. Last year teams just played him for the shot. Not this year. He can turn the corner on anyone and once he gets to 15ft he just rises up then shoots and it's money. His ball handling and decision making has improved dramatically as well.

 

[vi edit]

What would an OKC team with Phil Jackson at the wheel look like? Interesting situation there. Young, raw, but very talented core of players. Low pressure small market to set up camp in. Get the offense moving the ball through the triangle. Let the Zen Master work his magic on taming and developing Westbrook. Sit Ibaka down and have him watch Dennis Rodman highlights on a daily basis. Let Harden and Pekins go and get in a more post threat to make defenders double down and give KD and Westbrook more space.

Add a year of maturity and experience of losing something you had every chance to win...

Yeah...that would be an interesting team.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

This kind of Heat fan front running is the reason why a lot of people root against the Heat.

I don't think there's any dispute the Heat's stars are better than OKC's.. even if the Heat were down 3-1, James/Wade/Bosh are better than Durant/Westbrook/[insert player here].

However, I know that age isn't gonna be a scapegoat excuse for OKC, but Miami is the experienced team, more hungrier team, and mentally scarred from what happened last year.

The bad reffing is there, but the games are still close. OKC needs to make clutch shots period. Heat are getting the bulk of the calls, but at least the games are close. Miami's playing better in the clutch.

I'm a Dallas Mavericks fan. So I hate both the Thunder and the Heat. For some reason though I hate the Heat a little less and want to finally see Lebron get his ring. Dude is the best player on the floor and that's saying a lot considering the star power out there (Wade, Durant, Westbrook).

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

This really comes down to mentality. They've been taking advantage of teams that just look run-down. With the Spurs and Lakers it was the age, and the Lakers just seemed to have some really big internal issues all season long.

The Heat really look like they WANT to win, and the Thunder lack what it takes to compete. Not even speaking about talent.

Westbrook is too stubborn to adjust anything, and I believe the Heat have gotten under their skin bad. Look at Serge Ibaka resulting to insults on Lebron James out of the game.

Heat have the champions heart. Look at Dallas last year. Totally outgunned but the heart break of the 06 Finals was the driving factor behind them. I think losing last year in the Finals in heartbreaking fashion is the reason you see such a determined and focused Heat team. I'm sure this will be a lesson for the Thunder and they will get there.

 

[Retro Rob]

What would an OKC team with Phil Jackson at the wheel look like? Interesting situation there. Young, raw, but very talented core of players. Low pressure small market to set up camp in. Get the offense moving the ball through the triangle. Let the Zen Master work his magic on taming and developing Westbrook. Sit Ibaka down and have him watch Dennis Rodman highlights on a daily basis. Let Harden and Pekins go and get in a more post threat to make defenders double down and give KD and Westbrook more space.

Add a year of maturity and experience of losing something you had every chance to win...

Yeah...that would be an interesting team.

Yeah, that way Phil can serve the food Brooks cooked and take full credit for the entire meal.

I just think Phil gets over-credited for the championship teams he has "built." He deserves credit, though, but not what he's given. He's a top coach though and had to maintain those good teams as well. Being given a house is much different than working for and buying one.

 

[purbeast0]

in this thread when the last round was still going on what I saw most was "it doesn't matter if it's Thunder or Spurs who win, they'll both easily expose the Heat"

i will eat crow because i 100% thought that the Thunder/Spurs would have convincingly taken it over the Heat/Celtics back in the conference finals round.

the way the Heat have been playing and are now have 3 chances to seal it really surprised me.

 

[HendrixFan]

Westbrook is no more talented that DRose assuming he comes back from his ACL injury okay. Rose has the same explosiveness, same ability to shift around a crowd, and same speed. I'll take Rose's highlight reel dunks over Westbrook's any day of the week.

The thing about Westbrook is that he has the physical ability to match Rose's level of performance but he doesn't see any reason to improve his game. Rose learned how to get to the line and get players in foul trouble instead of evading contact last season. Westbrook still fails at that. Rose learned how to distribute the ball despite coming into the league as a shoot first PG. He plays defense and holds his teammates accountable for mistakes.

The game has alot more going on than getting the ball in the basket. Until Westbrook has "the moment" and sees that he will continue to come up short.

With Wade's bad knee he hasn't been the same, but his all around performance and the way he stepped up in the last five minutes was a bigger net positive for the Heat. He had a couple steals, a ton of boards and a key basket and assist in the final few minutes. If there was a play to be made (especially with Lebron out) Wade made it. Westbrook had a few turnovers, a very bad shot attempt and the stupid stupid stupid foul in the final minutes. I still can't wrap my head around how stupid that foul was, as the PG is ALWAYS the most responsible on the court for being aware of the shot clock and game clock.

Westbrook's game last night had more in common with a Kobe performance than anything. Harden has struggled to get going, so why isn't Westbrook dropping some easy dimes for him to convert? Despite the fact that Westbrook had it going, Durant is still Durant and needs to be involved in the fourth. I think a big part of his dejection post game was that he was invisible late in the game while Westbrook was aborting things.

The Thunder's struggles mostly all come back to playing ISO ball, hero ball. As the PG Westbrook is the catalyst for that, and hot hand or not, if you play ISO ball against the best help defense team in the league you will lose. If a great defense is allowing you certain things, maybe those aren't the things you want.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Yeah, that way Phil can serve the food Brooks cooked and take full credit for the entire meal.

I just think Phil gets over-credited for the championship teams he has "built." He deserves credit, though, but not what he's given. He's a top coach though and had to maintain those good teams as well. Being given a house is much different than working for and buying one.

He deserves the credit imo. Building a good team is one thing taking it to championship level is another and much more difficult.

 

[HendrixFan]

the way the Heat have been playing and are now have 3 chances to seal it really surprised me.

I think the stat that sums it up best is that the Heat are 8-0 when playing from behind in these playoffs. They got down 2-1 and won 3 straight against the Pacers. Then down 3-2 they won 2 straight against the Celtics. Now down 1-0 they have won 3 straight again against the Thunder and I'd be stunned if they don't take game five in Miami.

 

[Retro Rob]

Now down 1-0 they have won 3 straight again against the Thunder and I'd be stunned if they don't take game five in Miami.

I wouldn't be. I'd be surprised if Miami completed this 5 game sweep. OKC is much better than what they're showing. I would like to see how they play an elimination game back at home. The Heat reminds me of the 2004 Pistons. Wasn't supposed to win, (the difference being they are expected to) lost the first game, swept the next 4 if they do it.


If I hear another "uhh, Jordan's Championships came in close games, he wuz in the league 7 years befo' he wun his wing...blah blah blah" I'm gonna puke. Jordan/James have nothing to do with one another, completely opposite type of players, different type of players in the NBA in general, can't play hard nosed D like in the 90s and get physical. I really hate those comparisons.

 

[HendrixFan]

OKC isn't better than they are showing. They don't play better defense than they are currently playing, and their ISO offense you are watching is what they have trotted out the last few years (a few games against the Spurs notwithstanding).

There isn't another level that they have played at that they are failing to reach. They have to change themselves and redesign what they do to play better. It remains to be seen if they see that or want that.

Two reasons why I think the Heat win on Thursday: they are in Miami and don't want to go back to OKC, and the Thunder have that stink of despair/hopelessness on them.

 

[Retro Rob]

He deserves the credit imo. Building a good team is one thing taking it to championship level is another and much more difficult.

Building a home and expanding is easier than moving into a ready-made home and expanding it?

I take Larry Brown for instance. He really couldn't do jack with the Sixers really for whatever reason. One Finals appearance. When he came to Detroit, a team primed for a Championship run, and he improved on an already very good team and took them there and went to back to back Finals.


Any coach would have a easier time inheriting the Thunder and taking them to the Finals than a coach inheriting the Bobcats and trying to go to the Finals.