Yea, 18 against the Heat, 33 against the C's, the missed call on Rondo as already pointed out changed everything. Yea, some can go either way but 33/18? The only superstar in tonight's game is Rondo IMO, talk about putting a team on your back...
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Official 2011-2012 NBA Playoffs Thread
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Yea, 18 against the Heat, 33 against the C's, the missed call on Rondo as already pointed out changed everything. Yea, some can go either way but 33/18? The only superstar in tonight's game is Rondo IMO, talk about putting a team on your back...
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
Did you watch the game? Other than the easy to miss call against Rondo are there any calls you dispute?
Just like in game one, Miami was the only team attacking the basket. Everything from Miami was either at the rim, or a kickout to an open three off of penetration to the rim.
How many jumpers did Rondo have? Allen? KG? Pierce? The Celtics choose to play the jumpshot game because they can't attack the rim against the Heat. Rondo did some and got to the line for it. Once he stopped going to the rim he stopped going to the line. It can't be any more simple than that. I guess he figured with the hot hand why take lumps?
Nobody gets to the line taking jumpshots. I'm sorry, the refs shouldn't bail teams out for that.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
Doesn't seem you were watching this game that carefully then. Pierce was fouled several times driving but nothing was called and the most important and obvious call was Rondo which turned the game. But the Celts got called for everything possible. The announcers a couple of times said there wasn't a foul by Rondo and Steisma but they were called.
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
Pierce drove to the basket several times? Really? Is it 2003?
Peitrus, Dooling and Steisma were absolutely stupid with fouls out there. How many dumb, and completely obvious, fouls did they have? Ten total? Those guys and the intentional fouling late were the foul gap.
The gap should have been wider. Doc was complaining about the foul disparity, as if he was completely shocked that a gameplan that relies on jumpers won't put the opposing team in the penalty much. Once the C's got hot early, it was game over for getting them to go into the paint. It was fool's gold for them, convincing them they could take the easy way to victory.
The only guy the C's have who ever attacks is Rondo. He shot 10 FTs attacking in the first half. He shot 2 in the second half (including OT) taking jumpers.
You think the C's got called for everything possible? They did. So did the Heat. Everything possible is relative to the style of play, and only one team played to get to the line tonight.
I love how the "we hate all things LeBron" people take it as far as seeing another game altogether.
Wade/LeBron are looking to drive to the basket on pretty much 90% of their possessions.
Ray Allen hasn't looked to drive to the basket in 8 years. KG pretty much shoots nothing but jumpers. Pierce is clearly hurt. Bass is a jump-shooter/dunk guy. Rondo is the only player on the Celtics who consistently drives to the basket, and even he tonight was hitting jumpers - literally- like he never has in his life.
Different styles of basketball are going to produce different results - in terms of shot selection, fouls called for/against, type of offense, etc, etc.
Celtics shot lights-out in the first half - 2nd half they came back to earth. Defensive rebounding was poor in the 4th quarter, and they completely ran out of gas in overtime. With Bradley out - Rondo had to play the entire game - and on Wade's drive to the basket where he converted the 3-pt play - Rondo barely even moved as Wade drove by him.
I fully expect the Celtics to come out swinging in game 3.
It's not like the Celtics aren't a big TV draw, and do you really think David Stern wants the Heat to win a championship?
there are no 'fixes' in play here, just basketball. Would the Spurs be up 2-0 if the NBA head-honcho's were fixing the playoffs?
Wade/LeBron are looking to drive to the basket on pretty much 90% of their possessions.
Ray Allen hasn't looked to drive to the basket in 8 years. KG pretty much shoots nothing but jumpers. Pierce is clearly hurt. Bass is a jump-shooter/dunk guy. Rondo is the only player on the Celtics who consistently drives to the basket, and even he tonight was hitting jumpers - literally- like he never has in his life.
Different styles of basketball are going to produce different results - in terms of shot selection, fouls called for/against, type of offense, etc, etc.
Celtics shot lights-out in the first half - 2nd half they came back to earth. Defensive rebounding was poor in the 4th quarter, and they completely ran out of gas in overtime. With Bradley out - Rondo had to play the entire game - and on Wade's drive to the basket where he converted the 3-pt play - Rondo barely even moved as Wade drove by him.
I fully expect the Celtics to come out swinging in game 3.
It's not like the Celtics aren't a big TV draw, and do you really think David Stern wants the Heat to win a championship?
there are no 'fixes' in play here, just basketball. Would the Spurs be up 2-0 if the NBA head-honcho's were fixing the playoffs?
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
Let's not forget that after the game one loss Doc vowed his players wouldn't let the Heat get so many uncontested layups. The Heat got into the lane with the same ease in game two only to get fouled while doing so.
Rondo said they were gonna punish Lebron and Wade for getting into the paint after game one. One of the knocks against Lebron has been that he should always attack the basket and never settle for jumpshots, even if he has to absorb some big hits.
What happens when the Heat come out unfazed by this and relentlessly attack the basket and get to the line? More criticism that the refs gave them the game. Shallow observation born out of hatred isn't valid criticism.
As I mentioned above, the C's had everything go there way tonight and still couldn't win in Miami. They aren't a good road team and showed why in game two. They are now 2-6 on the road in the playoffs despite drawing the 8 seed in the second round. The refs aren't there to bail out the Celtics who are simply overmatched.
Rondo said they were gonna punish Lebron and Wade for getting into the paint after game one. One of the knocks against Lebron has been that he should always attack the basket and never settle for jumpshots, even if he has to absorb some big hits.
What happens when the Heat come out unfazed by this and relentlessly attack the basket and get to the line? More criticism that the refs gave them the game. Shallow observation born out of hatred isn't valid criticism.
As I mentioned above, the C's had everything go there way tonight and still couldn't win in Miami. They aren't a good road team and showed why in game two. They are now 2-6 on the road in the playoffs despite drawing the 8 seed in the second round. The refs aren't there to bail out the Celtics who are simply overmatched.
fustercluck
Diamond Member
I've always thought Rondo might be an alien by the shape of his head. Now with all these numbers he's putting up lately, I'm starting to believe. Insane. They tried to trade him? =O
In other news, San Antonio can go 6-6 and still win the NBA championship.
In other news, San Antonio can go 6-6 and still win the NBA championship.
Some of the C's fouls were intentional of course to try to slow Miami's penetration game, problem is if your gonna obviously foul someone, PREVENT THE SHOT..that rule was not followed by the C's and it cost them. Really though the Rondo non call was really, really bad, if you plainly rake the face it cannot be missed if your a ref..
Capt Caveman
Lifer
/facepalm
Capt Caveman
Lifer
/more facepalm
DesiPower
Lifer
Can't wait for tonights game, thunders will play with all their might all their strength as if there is no tomorrow and in fact there won't be if they don't win.
Spurs will be riding on their momentum, their confidence their team spirit. It will be a very interesting game. will be interesting to watch how spurs react if they lose, how will it effect their confidence.
My money is on spurs, not coz I am their fan but because of how wonderfully they are playing.
Spurs will be riding on their momentum, their confidence their team spirit. It will be a very interesting game. will be interesting to watch how spurs react if they lose, how will it effect their confidence.
My money is on spurs, not coz I am their fan but because of how wonderfully they are playing.
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
I take it from your response that you think shooting jumpers should net teams plenty of trips to the line. Whereas driving into the paint relentlessly doesn't.
Trust me, if your line of thinking to revolutionize basketball actually worked, someone would have discovered it by now. It's not like teams fail to fall into the bad habit of "settling for jumpers" only to lose, and talk about coming back the following game by "attacking the basket".
It is basketball 101 and whatever personal distaste you have for a player or team won't change it.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
The problem wasn't with the foul calls or non-calls. The Celtics were carrying a lead midway through the third quarter because they were shooting at an insane clip; if you shoot 67% from the field, you should be winning. The problem came when LeBron James and Dwyane Wade caught fire simultaneously midway through the third and erased a 14 point deficit like it was nothing. The Celtics jumpers stopped falling, they had some sloppy turnovers and two of the best players in the game capitalized with good transition offense and hitting some ridiculous jumpers. There was a 17 point swing in the third, and it would've been worse if Garnett hadn't nailed the jumper at the horn.
Rondo played an amazing game. Obviously the Heat don't want him to shoot like that. But the thing is, he generally doesn't. If he can't continue to nail uncontested jump shots, the Heat are going to keep playing off him, and that takes a lot away from the Celtics offense. You can't expect Rondo to have a game like that every night, and he's more effective when he's putting up gaudy assist totals than huge scoring numbers. If he can put up some more 15-15-15 games, I think you've got a better chance to win than if he's your primary scoring threat.
But damn, did he ever play well.
Rondo played an amazing game. Obviously the Heat don't want him to shoot like that. But the thing is, he generally doesn't. If he can't continue to nail uncontested jump shots, the Heat are going to keep playing off him, and that takes a lot away from the Celtics offense. You can't expect Rondo to have a game like that every night, and he's more effective when he's putting up gaudy assist totals than huge scoring numbers. If he can put up some more 15-15-15 games, I think you've got a better chance to win than if he's your primary scoring threat.
But damn, did he ever play well.
dbk
Lifer
but he had gotten so many calls that night.. i think he shot like 24 free throws
OrByte
Diamond Member
The refs control the game period
They control who gets to be aggressive (Heat)
They control who gets to the fouline (Heat)
They control who gets the critical "lucky bounces" (Heat)
the minute the "unlucky" team gets tagged for tippytap fouls their whole mentality/aggression level changes. Suddenly its 8v5 on the court and the "unlucky" team not only has to sort out what the "lucky" team is doing, they have to play cautious against a referee tandem that is whistling phantom contact...or NOT whistling legit contact....which is just as bad.
The NBA = the old skool WWF. I'm sorry people still pay good money for this scam.
They control who gets to be aggressive (Heat)
They control who gets to the fouline (Heat)
They control who gets the critical "lucky bounces" (Heat)
the minute the "unlucky" team gets tagged for tippytap fouls their whole mentality/aggression level changes. Suddenly its 8v5 on the court and the "unlucky" team not only has to sort out what the "lucky" team is doing, they have to play cautious against a referee tandem that is whistling phantom contact...or NOT whistling legit contact....which is just as bad.
The NBA = the old skool WWF. I'm sorry people still pay good money for this scam.
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HendrixFan
Diamond Member
It is different in the last two minutes, ask KG about the game against the Sixers when he was called for an obvious foul in the final minute. Refs usually don't make those calls, even though they should.
OrByte said:
The Heat chose to be aggressive by driving into the lane. Nobody told the Celtics not to penetrate (even though they really can't). If there was any hope at all that the Celtics would attack the basket it went away when they were shooting 65%+ for the majority of the first half. They felt jumpers would win the game for them, but that was only true if they kept shooting at that rate. They didn't.
It isn't on the refs that the C's shot jumpers all night long. Rondo had no problem getting FTs when he was getting into the lane. He had ten in the first half! As he realized his shot was not gonna miss all night he stopped getting into the paint and stopped getting to the line, shooting two the rest of the way.
That wasn't on the refs. The refs can't force teams to stop shooting jump shots, and they can't rewind the clock to a time when Pierce, KG, or Allen could actually get into the lane.
The Heat should have less fouls than the C's each game. Not only does their offensive style of attack create more FT opportunities, but their defensive matchups allow them to stay out of foul trouble. The Heat are fast and athletic, the C's are old and slow, moving the ball via passing. The Heat have no problem staying in front of their guys. Why would Lebron need to foul Pierce? The C's can't stay in front of the Heat guys, physically speaking. Nobody who ever stepped on the court with a huge physical mismatch has foul trouble.
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Capt Caveman
Lifer
Listening to ESPN radio, the Heat had 26 around the rim shots and Boston had 25. There goes that theory that Miami attacked the rim and Boston didn't.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--c...iating.html;_ylt=Alz.EMR9aJblQrlt06q.bbI5nYcB
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--c...iating.html;_ylt=Alz.EMR9aJblQrlt06q.bbI5nYcB
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
Rondo got into the lane and got foul shots, I explained that already. But the C's didn't get in there like the Heat did.
It only counts as a shot if you are fouled and it goes in. Meaning the 47 shots at the line for Miami would have come from the additional 20 or so attempts in the paint that weren't "shots" because they were fouled and it didn't go in. That is where the numbers skew.
What did you think the FT numbers would look like heading into the game after the C's boasted they would "put them on the floor" when they go into the lane? For them to complain afterwards is really pathetic.
Pierce has a strained MCL and is already older than dirt. His game is fadeaway jumpers. How is he going to draw fouls doing that? How is he going to stay in front of Lebron without fouling?
I honestly have no idea how anyone can watch that game and not see a clear difference in the offensive style of play for the two teams.
I also note the lack of outrage when KG nearly pushed Lebron out of bounds (about half an inch to spare) on the baseline that got no call. It was the play right before the Rondo no call. Why does one no call matter more than another? Because one team made winning plays down the stretch and the other didn't and it is easier to blame the refs? Cmon.
AznAnarchy99
Lifer
The NBA should be able to have a challenge rule like the NFL.
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
They allow replays in many instances and Stern has already talked about adding more in the offseason. The NFL has a terrible system that rewards teams with good coaches and punishes teams with moronic coaches. It skews things in favor of the teams that don't need any additional help while ignoring the real problem, fixing calls on important plays.
purbeast0
No Lifer
lol totally forgot about that BS clear path foul.
and the late ass tech called on garnett.
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
The clear path foul was absolutely correct. Pietrus waited until James was past him and wrapped him up. Just grab him and be done with it. If you let the guy run past you and then grab him, you're impeding a player with a clear path to the basket, which is the definition of the rule. It was a stupid mistake by Pietrus, but the call was dead on.
I don't remember the technical foul on Garnett. I think I was prepping a snack when that happened.
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
We should know within the first ten minutes of tonight's game if the Thunder are going to make this a series. Brooks has really been terrible in the first two games, someone needs to tell him you can make adjustments during games.
If Perkins and Fisher get any extended PT then the series is over. Perkins was brought in to bang with the Lakers, not chase around a small ball Spurs lineup. Parker going off in game two was all on Brooks for refusing to pull Perkins and allow a faster defender to switch off the pick and roll. Ibaka (who sat nearly all of the fourth for some stupid reason) and Collison would be much better options.
Fisher was parked in the corner on offense, and if that is how you are going to play him you may as well have Cook out there. His few shots he hit in game one were fool's gold and Brooks fell for it.
Also, Durant was feeling it but didn't get touches. How does that happen? The Spurs have nobody who can clamp down on him yet they didn't exploit that matchup. How can you miss feeding the game's best scorer when the team you are playing is beating you with killer offense? Keep pace with them by riding your guy. And Westbrook isn't "your guy" in this case.
The team up 2-0 in a seven game series has won something like 94% of the series all time. If the Thunder want a shadow of a chance it starts with Brooks deciding three games in that he can make adjustments to his personnel to exploit matchup strengths and hide weaknesses.
If Perkins and Fisher get any extended PT then the series is over. Perkins was brought in to bang with the Lakers, not chase around a small ball Spurs lineup. Parker going off in game two was all on Brooks for refusing to pull Perkins and allow a faster defender to switch off the pick and roll. Ibaka (who sat nearly all of the fourth for some stupid reason) and Collison would be much better options.
Fisher was parked in the corner on offense, and if that is how you are going to play him you may as well have Cook out there. His few shots he hit in game one were fool's gold and Brooks fell for it.
Also, Durant was feeling it but didn't get touches. How does that happen? The Spurs have nobody who can clamp down on him yet they didn't exploit that matchup. How can you miss feeding the game's best scorer when the team you are playing is beating you with killer offense? Keep pace with them by riding your guy. And Westbrook isn't "your guy" in this case.
The team up 2-0 in a seven game series has won something like 94% of the series all time. If the Thunder want a shadow of a chance it starts with Brooks deciding three games in that he can make adjustments to his personnel to exploit matchup strengths and hide weaknesses.
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