***Official*** 2010 Stock Market Thread

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Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,666
21
81
GNVC is nothing but day traders. Their portfolio is the only hope they have and IMO it's not really that strong. Their price to sales and earnings are ridiculously high, which means they're not making any revenue. The sale of 28 million in stock confirms this. It's not necessarily a bad thing for them to be raising capital, however it should be seen as a warning sign if they are not announcing anything new for their portfolio in terms of R&D. If they sold the stock for continued operating expenses, then that should be taken as a clear warning.

If you are interested in GNVC for short, I would buy at 1.50-60 and sell on the next rally. If you're going for the long run, then it's a gamble. Every time the FDA shoots down a new drug (which is always more than likely than approving one), the stock drops dramatically. It usually takes a pharma company several passes to get the drug approved for the market.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,600
6,084
136
I'm down on GNVC and RMBS... only green in my portfolio is from BRK.B
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Sold the rest of GNVC, i got in at.99 or so, so my total return was around 100%, Ill take that and avoid becoming an investor in it.
 

Blueychan

Senior member
Feb 1, 2008
602
0
76
All the good news and yet rmbs is down 7%. WTF! Give me a good reason why rmbs is down today, anyone? All the techs are down so maybe rmbs are just going along with them. /sigh
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,600
6,084
136
People just see a higher loss versus year-ago quarter, probably. Plus RMBS is speculative anyways.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
RMBS was supposed to jump when they won the trial and settled with samsung. When it didnt, people jumped to other speculative stocks.
 

Blueychan

Senior member
Feb 1, 2008
602
0
76
People just see a higher loss versus year-ago quarter, probably. Plus RMBS is speculative anyways.

Higher loss hurts but it shouldn't be a big factor because everyone knows rmbs life is dependent on the lawsuits. Maybe people are impatient to go long with anything in this market.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,600
6,084
136
Well, even MSFT is down a decent amount despite a blowout quarter.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
I got crushed today. i'm thinking about pulling out of all of my positions and waiting about a month to see what happens. I'm still positive overall since jumping into stocks for the first time in fall of 2008.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
I don't get the overall market this week. Apple and Microsoft both post good numbers, the GDP is up huge, and we've had several straight days of HEAVY bleeding? Something is fishy.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Well the market is down like 7-8% in a matter of a ocuple weeks, that some pretty hefty losses right there.
 

hiromizu

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
3,405
1
0
I'm expecting at least a 10% correction but I think it's a bull market correction, not a bear market entry.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
I don't get the overall market this week. Apple and Microsoft both post good numbers, the GDP is up huge, and we've had several straight days of HEAVY bleeding? Something is fishy.

I get it very well, the market is far far overpriced and has been for the last 6 months. Often times in the market it gets to a point where no matter how great the new numbers coming out are, the market is still too overpriced to sustain these numbers. This is an example.

I expect a worse case scenario to see the market drop to last March's lows. A few big name people have predicted this, including the president of Elliot Wave.

Most likely and within reason, I think the S&P 500 will see 900 within the next 3 months. 9 months of a bull market while unemployment is still getting worse and the economic is lagging behind the recoveries of Asian economies? Not logical. The recession is "technically" over, but the economic is still on the ropes.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I get it very well, the market is far far overpriced and has been for the last 6 months. Often times in the market it gets to a point where no matter how great the new numbers coming out are, the market is still too overpriced to sustain these numbers. This is an example.

I expect a worse case scenario to see the market drop to last March's lows. A few big name people have predicted this, including the president of Elliot Wave.

Most likely and within reason, I think the S&P 500 will see 900 within the next 3 months. 9 months of a bull market while unemployment is still getting worse and the economic is lagging behind the recoveries of Asian economies? Not logical. The recession is "technically" over, but the economic is still on the ropes.


I'm certainly glad the Elliot Wavers can predict Obama going after the banks, uncertainty around economic policy, and other exogenous factors that sprung up in the last week.

Without those obviously chartology predicted events, we'd be sunk...


Overall earnings season was mixed. Some fundamental companies didn't pull in earnings like they had before, while others did. It was actually a see-saw motion. Many companies were liquidating inventories without restocking, generating more cash than was coming in (although that's revenue neutral with COGS), not to mention profits were juiced as companies cut costs. However, once inventories declined too much, restocking had to happen. Compounding that was that cost cutting was effectively done but legacy charges may have remained.

Furthermore, raw material prices for manufacturers increased, squeezing profits somewhat.

I personally don't think we're going to fall much. Just as March lows were too low, perhaps 10.6K was too high.
 

snoopdoug1

Platinum Member
Jan 8, 2002
2,164
0
76
Sold the rest of GNVC, i got in at.99 or so, so my total return was around 100%, Ill take that and avoid becoming an investor in it.

Might be a good call. I do think it's funny how big the rally was with GNVC though, and now it's dropping like mad. The only thing that changed was that they had the stock sale - and dilution of about 13%. Does it really deserve to drop this much?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
I'm certainly glad the Elliot Wavers can predict Obama going after the banks, uncertainty around economic policy, and other exogenous factors that sprung up in the last week.

Without those obviously chartology predicted events, we'd be sunk...


Overall earnings season was mixed. Some fundamental companies didn't pull in earnings like they had before, while others did. It was actually a see-saw motion. Many companies were liquidating inventories without restocking, generating more cash than was coming in (although that's revenue neutral with COGS), not to mention profits were juiced as companies cut costs. However, once inventories declined too much, restocking had to happen. Compounding that was that cost cutting was effectively done but legacy charges may have remained.

Furthermore, raw material prices for manufacturers increased, squeezing profits somewhat.

I personally don't think we're going to fall much. Just as March lows were too low, perhaps 10.6K was too high.

Well said. I was going to post this sentiment along with a swipe at EWavers but I figured I'd be talking to myself...
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
I'm certainly glad the Elliot Wavers can predict Obama going after the banks, uncertainty around economic policy, and other exogenous factors that sprung up in the last week.

As I have stated in my previous response to you, all of the things you have mentioned, included but not limited to, political changes, economic news, or fundamental changes in the economics of a specific company or industry should all be take into effect when doing any sort of technical or fundamental analysis, it's not a numbers game, if it was, a computer would have figured out how to do TA on it's own long ago and make billions.

But as I previously stated, RMBS was at it's top and receded from it, as predicted and will likely continue to. And as far as tops and bottoms go, this a actually a method great for predicting the movement of the overall market if done correct with certain industry leading stocks that inhibit certain behavior because it often reflects the fundamental valuation "limits" of a company during turbulent markets (basically, certain stocks due to reasons relating to their fundamental valuations rarely trade below certain prices and trade within certain "zones", giving a create way to time the market's overall tops and bottoms). It's more complicated than what I can briefly explain, but it's an example of how if TA is done properly, that fundamental factors come into play in technical analysis.
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
As I have stated in my previous response to you, all of the things you have mentioned, included but not limited to, political changes, economic news, or fundamental changes in the economics of a specific company or industry should all be take into effect when doing any sort of technical or fundamental analysis, it's not a numbers game, if it was, a computer would have figured out how to do TA on it's own long ago and make billions.

But as I previously stated, RMBS was at it's top and receded from it, as predicted and will likely continue to.

Wow, you made a prediction. Now, what would have happened if another company settled with RMBS and the stock had shot up?

Would your charts have predicted that? Hardly. Instead, you'd be scurrying around for the next "wave". But of course, your pretty charts can also predict analysis done in the back rooms of ram producers who decide when it's commercially feasible to capitulate rather than fight, or they can predict when an attorney decides enough is enough? Yes, of course, the strong version of EMH will incorporate all of those pieces of info. Obviously, as I mentioned before, you've never read Klarmann and had those silly ideas debunked.

That's similar to what most chartists do, they back-test or monday-morning quarterback their charts, yet fail to deliver any solid results on them for the long-term.

Heck, it was amusing to watch Mish writhe around with his silly Elliott Waves, that is, until they didn't work anymore.

Sorry, but you couldn't have predicted the RMBS movement either way, not from a chart. Azurik hasn't proven himself right by a chart thus far, but he has spent hours, days, weeks, months, years analyzing the RMBS situation and has delivered solid results from that FA. You, on the other hand, flipped a coin. Wow. Great. A blind squirrel finds a nut.

What's even more preposterous is that you somehow claim that what you do, rubbing a crystal ball or shaking the magic 8 ball, is similar to high-speed prop trading desks, by which hedge fund managers and banks bilk billions from their own clients or the rest of the market by getting access to dark pools and front-running trades using sub-pennying, all through "technical analysis" of millions of trades. Yeah, sure, I'm sure you do that.


Back on topic....


There's no sure-shot to looking how this situation will play out. I can tell you that banks are really leading a huge charge to lend on a securitization basis. You saw several phases to this cycle, a rapid contraction caused by extendable CP, SIVs, RMBS, and CDO warehousing. This affected the ABCP market first, followed by the term market.

Banks took lumps because the SIVs were holding the worst of the worst, they were consolidated and cleaned up. The ABCP market got whacked and issuance stopped. Now that's rolling back. ABCP is back to sub-LIBOR pricing and ABCP investors are demanding more and more transparency with multi-seller conduits.

Big banks are now consolidating their underwriting among core clients, those of which they interact on multiple levels (FX, revolvers, debt, equity, conduit, term). This consolidation is causing a lot of turmoil, as many smaller lenders are being pushed out in favor of the big guys. This creates a lot of ABCP and term market refugees, mainly the SME lenders who are now SOL, such as middle-market small-ticket leasing companies.

However, the big-guys, the multi-national large issuers, are finding deals easily.

How this will likely shake out is that you will get a re-aggregation on a national level down. SME's will get money from regional banks, multi-nationals will get money from like banks. This will take time to sort out, as many of these contracts are multi-year lending deals. A 5-year ABCP deal made in 2007 won't be done until 2012.


What this really means is that small guys are getting squeezed for spread and time, but will find pockets of liquidity in other areas. Big guys won't have a problem. It is going to cause a general malaise in the lending industry.

Contrary to many people's assertions, people DO want to borrower and banks DO want to lend, just to more certain parties on both sides. The problem isn't any easier since international regulators are fucking with the securitization market, creating a huge amount of uncertainty for capital requirements. However, many international banks are charging ahead.

It's a big clusterfuck that will be sorted out given time. I don't foresee 3%+ GDP growth, but even 2% is better than -2%. The US is far better off than most countries.


Personal holdings? I'm still with EK (w00t for this week!), IMN, CAR, DTG, FCX. I also still hold GE, AAPL (love the rollercoaster), and GOOG (In my wife's account, she loves it).

I did buy some RMBS from Azurik's recommendation and do believe that they will ultimately prevail.
 
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