***Official*** 2008 Stock Market Thread

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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Do y'all think it's wise to start building up some BAC positions with "expendable" money?

I would not start building any position. We haven't hit our longterm low. Pure financials are still on my do not touch list. My focus is still on commodities and energy space with "hit it to quit it" mentality. You have to trade this market. You can't own anything other than cash.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Im guessing today will be a large down day. Look tomorrow to find a huge jump up from 8000, if that fails, the DOW will sink very fast.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Free falling. S&P 840 support broke. We already used the bounce from there before. It's ugly and I'm still not buying. I do see some crazy values in technology space.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
PUTting my money where my mouth is and closing JPM puts for a 500% profit, bought them and LEH puts when they bought LEH, sold LEH a while ago for a huge gain, looks like a decent time to sell off now :)


 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
PUTting my money where my mouth is and closing JPM puts for a 500% profit, bought them and LEH puts when they bought LEH, sold LEH a while ago for a huge gain, looks like a decent time to sell off now :)

Congrats but bolded part don't really make sense. I'm looking for whites of their eye before I start my big trading buy. I'm getting more bullish for a trade now we're free falling after breaking support but I need another leg down before I pull the trigger. I already have the names I want. I waiting and watching. If we drop big tomorrow, I'm going in.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Just to confirm, I dont think there's a long term rally about to begin, conversely I think we largely trade between 8-9K with a slight negative bias toward 7.5K in the middle of next year. I wouldnt form any long term positions right now except for cash.

That beign said, is it possible to have a negative Fed Funds rate? It's already at 1% with BB talking of more cuts. In a a deflationary environment, could a negative rate be possible/feasible?



 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Just to confirm, I dont think there's a long term rally about to begin, conversely I think we largely trade between 8-9K with a slight negative bias toward 7.5K in the middle of next year. I wouldnt form any long term positions right now except for cash.

That beign said, is it possible to have a negative Fed Funds rate? It's already at 1% with BB talking of more cuts. In a a deflationary environment, could a negative rate be possible/feasible?

If everyone is getting a negative savings rate at ING, HSBC, and C people will start stuffing money under their mattresses. :Q
Who would want keep money in a savings account that loses money? Better move money from your savings to a checking account earning 0% interest.

/tinfoil hat
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Just to confirm, I dont think there's a long term rally about to begin, conversely I think we largely trade between 8-9K with a slight negative bias toward 7.5K in the middle of next year. I wouldnt form any long term positions right now except for cash.

That beign said, is it possible to have a negative Fed Funds rate? It's already at 1% with BB talking of more cuts. In a a deflationary environment, could a negative rate be possible/feasible?

If everyone is getting a negative savings rate at ING, HSBC, and C people will start stuffing money under their mattresses. :Q
Who would want keep money in a savings account that loses money? Better move money from your savings to a checking account earning 0% interest.

/tinfoil hat

Too many sorry ass banks need deposits and money to survive so they're going to keep paying the premium to attract your deposit. Banking index today broke the 52 week low it established back in July with a close at 40.62. I said back in August when the index was trading in the mid 60s that we're going to revisit 40s and possibly hit 20s before we're done. One thing I learned from the dotcom crash is that pain will be felt by every company in the sector, good or bad, and things drop to levels that you thought were impossible or irrational. I saw too many tech companies trading around or below a buck back then. Research in Motion, Corning, Akamai, etc. I could go on. The good ones recovered to gain 10 to over 100 times the crash low price but I saw and experienced the destruction firsthand. This debt bubble was many times worse than the dotcom bubble and effected just about every sector so it still has ways to go. But we're getting there. But I don't want to do with anything financial right now. This is the sector that was the heart of the problem.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Instead of BAC I'm tempted to get some INTC again now that it has dropped a bunch again. I don't need this money for a while (probably 3-5 years), you think it's a good buy?

Or should I start trading C :p :p
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
16
81
If GM become a penny stock and get kicked off the NY stock exchange, does that mean they get kicked out of the Dow too?
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
Just to confirm, I dont think there's a long term rally about to begin, conversely I think we largely trade between 8-9K with a slight negative bias toward 7.5K in the middle of next year. I wouldnt form any long term positions right now except for cash.

That beign said, is it possible to have a negative Fed Funds rate? It's already at 1% with BB talking of more cuts. In a a deflationary environment, could a negative rate be possible/feasible?

If everyone is getting a negative savings rate at ING, HSBC, and C people will start stuffing money under their mattresses. :Q
Who would want keep money in a savings account that loses money? Better move money from your savings to a checking account earning 0% interest.

/tinfoil hat


Not necessarily as a savings rate but as a lending rate from the fed. Say if Bank X needed a 12000 loan that was to be paid off in a year with a negative rate, they'd pay something like 1150 a month or so. The fed doesnt really care if it gets its money back, it just wants to capitalize the banks.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Originally posted by: Naustica
Free falling. S&P 840 support broke. We already used the bounce from there before. It's ugly and I'm still not buying. I do see some crazy values in technology space.

I don't understand the whole "resistance/support" thing. Are you saying that investors will be very hesitant to let a major index drop below its previous low value? That makes no sense to me. It seems like a purely psychological decision.

Then again, investors aren't rational and there is an entire field of academic study devoted to behavioral economics, so maybe this is just the way it is.
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
16
81
Originally posted by: Special K
I don't understand the whole "resistance/support" thing. Are you saying that investors will be very hesitant to let a major index drop below its previous low value? That makes no sense to me. It seems like a purely psychological decision.

Then again, investors aren't rational and there is an entire field of academic study devoted to behavioral economics, so maybe this is just the way it is.

There are hundreds of books written about 'technical analysis' of stocks - as far as I can tell, it's basically astrology for stock markets. There's absolutely nothing underpinning it. However, it seems that enough people use the same signs and trade on them that they become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Essentially, there are a number of basic predictions that technical analysis makes - if a stock price, or an index, or whatever has previously dropped and got stuck at a particular level. E.g. the dow on a number of recent down days has been sticking at about 8000, and for the last 3 times it hit, it stopped dropping as soon as it hit 8000, and reversed direction. If you plot a chart, it's like there's an invisible shelf there, that a bouncing ball will bounce off. This is a, so called, 'support'.

Why does this phenomenon occur? Presumably, it's because people like to buy stocks 'on the dips'. Rather than just blindly buying to add to a portfolio, they wait for the price to drop a bit, to shave a few % off the price. How do you know how far it's going to dip? Best guess is probably how much it dipped last time. If you believe in TA, then you might buy in, at that point, as it's likely that the stock price will start to go up.

The theory goes that if a stock price approaches support, then it will bring buyers in, and will tend to bounce off. However, every time it hits the support, it depletes buyers. Eventually, you run out of buyers, and the next time the stock hits the support it'll sail through, and there won't be any buyers to stop the price falling a good way. So, day traders who use TA, will often use this sort of signal to short a stock. The exact opposite is 'resistance'.

You wouldn't use these 'technicals' to make a long term, safe investment, but they are potentially helpful hints for gambling on stocks. These are often short term signs, although if you ask around, someone will quote some fractal symmetry stuff and say that it works over years as well as seconds.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
I have started some buying now. Bought some COP at $42. Have orders for other names but lower. I'm keeping an eye on 680 on the S&P as the place to go all in.
 

sohcrates

Diamond Member
Sep 19, 2000
7,949
0
0
shipping is getting hammered

i got in on some DRYS (dryships) @ $92 in june and it hit $3.70 today.

now that's what i call a loss
 

Ricochet

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
6,390
19
81
You win some, you lose some. That's the game, sohcrates. My worst one was Jones Soda (JSDA). Got in at $9 and it's now $0.47
 

AmpedSilence

Platinum Member
Oct 7, 2005
2,749
1
76
Originally posted by: ricochet
You win some, you lose some. That's the game, sohcrates. My worst one was Jones Soda (JSDA). Got in at $9 and it's now $0.47

yeah, I got in on GKK at $14, right now its at $0.90. I dont understand why its doing poorly, strong asset portfolio, very little debt, and they were paying almost 0.63/share dividend. Plus, over that year, it was shouldering right around $16 then it would bounce back to around $22. So, I got in at $14, only to loss a crap load.