***Official*** 2008 Stock Market Thread

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Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76
Originally posted by: Azurik
They won't cut, that's a guarantee in a market with no guarentees. Wall St. actually feared that the interest rate might RISE, but this past week this notion has been pretty much squashed. The market is betting with almost a near certainity that rates will remain unchanged.

I think the fair market value of oil should be around $85-$95. The difference between FMV and the price now is speculation IMHO. Oil was $55 in January '07 - I think some of you guys don't realize what a jump it has gone through in a year and a half. Yes, a lot of it has to do with the fact that oil is pegged to the dollar and we've had a weak dollar policy lately. One could also throw in the growing demand of China/India. But there is plenty of speculative money in oil futures, and in my wild guess, we're about $30-$40 overpriced. When a correction does happen, they tend to over correct.

I don't time market specifically (case in point with my buying in GE), but I go with the information that's out there and I really believe oil is in a bubble right now. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I called China was in a bubble well before it popped, when it was still steam rolling ahead. I didn't short China at the time - I'll short oil now though. Timing might not be exact, and we may very well see $250 oil sometime in the future... but the market is pricing oil futures like we'll see $250 oil this year rather than some significant time ahead.

The fed is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Mr. Inflation is rearing its ugly head and helicopter Bernanke will surely bring this topic up tomorrow after they announce their decision. If they need to curb inflation, which they will... one can expect rates to rise as early as October. If rates rise, dollar will strengthen. That will shave a few dollars off a barrel of oil. It only takes one minor swing in momentum before all the speculators dump and the black gold back to a more realistic level.


i don't necessarily buy it, over the past year, the fed has a history now of talking tough but the instant a bank or the market is in distress, they whore out with surprise cuts.
The main reason i don't think they will outright cut more is because it looks like the fed's balance sheet has become strained, even the fed is not omnipotent.
The day the fed surprise raises rates, i will start sitting up.

As for oil, the fed actions and price of oil are somewhat tied together, the fed has to take back all that money they have thrown at the system for oil prices to come down.

 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
I have been a long time RMBS shareholder/event-trader. The knowledge I have of this company and the amount of time I have spent studying it has gone well far and beyond any other stock. The story unfolding is fascinating to say the least.

Recent news have peaked my interest, and it looks like their litigation for the past decade may soon be paying off. I would love to tell the story here, but it's very much complex and novel-length.

I picked up another 200 shares in the open market this morning. I have a bunch of prior shares along with some leaps I acquired some time ago.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
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Azurick,

Will RMBS be in business in 20 years? Do they have a durable competitive advantage? Can a competitor enter the market place and be better than RMBS?

Remember, the speculators hall of fame consists of an empty room.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
68
91
bat my back everyone:

After almost wanting to vomit over the fact that I was loading up on financials (good ones, mostly Berkshire holdings) and watching my portfolio go down and down and down, today it is up 4%!

Thank you BBT! <== my only non-Berkshire financial holding.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
68
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Regarding banks, no one here is capable of analyzing banks these days. NO ONE!

The only thing you can do is look at the financials that Buffet has bought recently, like USB, and buy those if you think they are undervalued.

6 of my 7 financial stocks are Warren Buffet picks (or Lou Simpson?) This whole financial crisis has left me shrugging my shoulders.
 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Azurick,

Will RMBS be in business in 20 years? Do they have a durable competitive advantage? Can a competitor enter the market place and be better than RMBS?

Remember, the speculators hall of fame consists of an empty room.

If the litigation is going the way it is, then the answer is yes, Rambus will be in business for the foreseeable future.

The story in a nutshell is this:

They are currently in multiple litigations, claiming that DRAM manufacturers stole Rambus IP (intellectual property) and engineered it into their DRAM production (SDRAM, DDR, DDR2, GDDR4, GDDR5 etc.). Back in the 90's, Rambus joined a standard committee (JEDEC) to license their IP and receive royalties. Instead, they used what they learned and morphed it to avoid RDRAM (Rambus' version of RAM). Rambus left the standard group and started to sue all the memory makers. A lot of them signed to avoid litigation, but there were 3 prominent ones who countersued (Infineon, Hynix and Micron) and refused to pay. This led to those that signed to demand a lower royalty rate and caused Rambus to incur massive litigation fees. The strategy is to burden Rambus with so much fees that the company would cease to exist.

The FTC got involved and a Judge in Virginia (Judge Payne) ruled in favor of the memory makers, but both decisions got overturned at a higher court level. The majority of the decisions since then have been falling in Rambus' favor, and an infringement verdict was finally announced in California against Hynix last year. The judge just wrapped the case up earlier this week and will announce his penalty assessments, injunctions on what type of RAM, etc. very soon.

There is a lot more to this story, but that is the backdrop to what is happening now. Court proceedings are slow, but many long-term investors are seeing the end right now. What does this all mean?

Rambus claims that all forms of memory were derived from their IP. So now it doesn't matter if the market threw away RDRAM or if their new XDR is successful now, as long as the rulings favor Rambus, memory manufacturers who didn't litigate with Rambus will pay a higher royalty rate and the ones that did fight Rambus in court will have to pay past royalties on sales, pa. Not only that, but they will have to pay a higher rate on future sales then if they didn't litigate or face injunction to stop producing infringing products. This would surely spell death if the injunction is permanent.

I don't know how else to tell you guys this, but this is HUGE. Rambus' market cap right now is only around $2B. A ruling on damages against Hynix is expected before August. Analyst are expecting damages of $400M alone plus future royalties. There's multiple court dates for other companies next year, and Rambus will use this case as precedent.

I have followed court proceedings on this before. I remember one time in college, a friend of ours went to the court the day one of the judges announced his decision on paper. He managed to post the decision on Yahoo! before the AP Newswire got a hold of it. I bought a bunch of calls and shares and within 5 minutes of buying, the stock was halted to annouce the news. Once it resumed in after-hours, it went bananas and I made a killing.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
RMBS. Wow, that stock brings back memories. I used to trade that crazy stock back in the days and remember the $100+ /shr price. Talk about a controversial stock. It's supporters are like zealots.

Picked up additional shares of Kraft at $29.05 this morning in the premarket. Bought some for myself and my daughter. She's going to hold her shares at least 13 years and collect some dividend. :)

Did you guys see how the banking index bounced off the 60 support level yesterday? Like clockwork, the index hit 60.01 before reversing and bouncing. :laugh: Maybe it can rally to about 72-73 max. But I fully expect that 60 support level to break eventually and become resistance. You'll see some real fun then.

If oil breaks, the place for upside trade to take advantage of that are the airlines. That sector has been decimated by high oil and where the prices are depressed the most, you'll see the most violent price recovery. You'll likely make far greater gains from airlines than from decline of oil. Just something to keep in mind.
 

Ricochet

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
6,390
19
81
Going to be another ugly day. Already down 150 in early morning. Those predicting the DOW to approach 10K may be right.
 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
Stocks are falling furiously out of the gate breaking all sorts of support levels.

Dow down 227.90
Nasdaq down 58.89
S&P down 25.50
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
i told you guys sell in may, i told you guys to short consumer stocks, does anyone listen to me? Nooooooooooooooooooooo..
 

Ricochet

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 1999
6,390
19
81
GM is at its 53 year low (and that's not even adjusted for inflation). Dayum. Come on Alan Mullaly(sp?), put some of that compensation bonuses back into the company.
 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
i told you guys sell in may, i told you guys to short consumer stocks, does anyone listen to me? Nooooooooooooooooooooo..

You needed someone to go against that ;)

After all, if everyone listened to the old adage of selling in May and coming back in October, we'd have a bigger panic :)
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Originally posted by: ricochet
GM is at its 53 year low (and that's not even adjusted for inflation). Dayum. Come on Alan Mullaly(sp?), put some of that compensation bonuses back into the company.

At a 7% dividend, that's tempting.
 

Azurik

Platinum Member
Jan 23, 2002
2,206
12
81
I bought more Kraft (KFT), General Eletric (GE) and Rambus (RMBS).

I am running out of free money to play with.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: ricochet
GM is at its 53 year low (and that's not even adjusted for inflation). Dayum. Come on Alan Mullaly(sp?), put some of that compensation bonuses back into the company.

Mullaly is at Ford, not GM
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Healthcare is my saving grace. That industry alone accounts for 24.6% total.
GILD, JNJ, TEVA, ESRX, COV, MR.

I'll stick to what I know best.
I still have my eye on two others in the sector (MYL, MDT)
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: vi edit
Originally posted by: ricochet
GM is at its 53 year low (and that's not even adjusted for inflation). Dayum. Come on Alan Mullaly(sp?), put some of that compensation bonuses back into the company.

At a 7% dividend, that's tempting.

No need to jump on a dead horse.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Great day today. I mean that. Couple more of these and we'll be in great shape. :)
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: Naustica
Great day today. I mean that. Couple more of these and we'll be in great shape. :)

LOL. Bloomburg reported that this is the worst month in the stock market since the Great Depression! :shocked:
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Originally posted by: Azurik
Stocks are falling furiously out of the gate breaking all sorts of support levels.

Dow down 227.90
Nasdaq down 58.89
S&P down 25.50

Nope. No support level broke today. Dow had the head and shoulder pattern I pointed out couple days ago and that's now a reality. S&P held the 1275 low of March. Banking Index held the 60 support level closing at 60.20. We're sitting at support now on the S&P and the Banking Index. If this hold, you'll have people become emboldened with the positive bottom retest crowd jumping onboard. Now the BKX breaks 60 and S&P breaks 1275 tomorrow or soon, that's when the real fun starts and we might get the washout we need. Hold on for dear life if that happens. ;)
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,811
126
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Naustica
Great day today. I mean that. Couple more of these and we'll be in great shape. :)

LOL. Bloomburg reported that this is the worst month in the stock market since the Great Depression! :shocked:

It's good to wash out the excesses. Gets rid of weak hands and strengthens the existing base. Sooner we take the medicine, sooner we get better. Fed and the invisible hands have made things worse by interfering and delaying the ultimate process, but we'll eventually get there.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
"There's no reason we should become fearful if a stock goes down. If a stock goes down 50%, I'd look forward to it. In fact, I would offer you a significant sum of money if you could give me the opportunity for all of my stocks to go down 50% over the next month."
-Warren Buffett, 2008 Berkshire Hathaway shareholders meeting