Off the cliff.............

[Moonbeam]

Poor Moonbeam, he still thinks people take his psychobabble seriously.

Have some faith. I will always try to help you. We have, for anything to take, to establish certain facts, one of which is that in your current condition you are hopeless. But this is not a reality, just a feeling that is true because it's what you really feel. If you can learn to like yourself a bit more, you won't feel so defensive. The reason people dump on you such scorn is because you open yourself up to it by acting like such an idiot. Do a bit less of that and things will improve. Everything is attitude and what you truly believe. The realization that you cause yourself to appear like a titanic fool can only help you in the long run. A drunk who will become sober must first face the fact he's a drunk. Otherwise, he will stay a drunk. To a drunk everything is psychobabble because a drunk can't make sense of anything. That's what it means to be a drunk and why there are places drunks can go to get cured. Most of humanity has determined, I think objectively, that it is better to be sober than to be a drunk.

 

[dbk]

Many in G.O.P. Offer Theory: Default Wouldn’t Be That Bad

Representative Ted Yoho, a freshman Florida Republican who had no experience in elective office before this year, said the largest economy on earth should learn from his large-animal veterinary practice.

“Everybody talks about how destabilizing doing this will be on the markets,” he said. “And you’ll see that initially, but heck, I’ve seen that in my business. When you go through that, and you address the problem and you address your creditors and say, ‘Listen, we’re going to pay you. We’re just not going to pay you today, but we’re going to pay you with interest, and we will pay everybody that’s due money’ — if you did that, the world would say America is finally addressing their problem.”

This is a smart strategy by the Republicans.. deny the consequences/possibility of defaulting so if it ever happens - Obama forced it to happen. This GOP rep is almost calling for it... Love that quote, too - We're not going to pay you today, BUT we'll pay you back with interest!!!!

 

[Moonbeam]

What "evidence". You have scans of the brain. That means...what exactly? Until we understand how the brain works far better than we do now, your "evidence" means nothing. At best it's a theory, nothing more. Why then would anyone trot it out as fact? Next you'll be claiming Clinton handed Bush a surplus. Where do these delusions come from?

Here we find somebody demanding all kinds of evidence as if he were qualified to evaluate data scientifically and then presenting all kinds of conjectures as facts without any scientific proof. This was fun.

 

[Moonbeam]

You know that nobody actually researches stuff like this right?

Freud was useful in that he spun off the branch of psychology as a legitimate field but it was just the ramblings of a crack addict afterall.

Thank you for these two stimulating opinions. I have filed them appropriately.

 

[Moonbeam]

Many in G.O.P. Offer Theory: Default Wouldn’t Be That Bad



This is a smart strategy by the Republicans.. deny the consequences/possibility of defaulting so if it ever happens - Obama forced it to happen. This GOP rep is almost calling for it... Love that quote, too - We're not going to pay you today, BUT we'll pay you back with interest!!!!

This is an example of how conservatives rationalize rather than think. Perhaps the US should try to get elected as representatives of various governments around the world so we can pay off our large animal debts. I'll pay you just as soon as I get a job where I can make money and still be brain dead. Just imagine if we could get more large animal vets in congress. MOOOOOve along now. Time for the land or rainbows and ponies.

 

[chucky2]

Clinton handed Bush a projected surplus. As in, "if you don't change anything too drastically, we will have a surplus." Bush then cut taxes and started 2 unfunded wars.

As for evidence of conservative brain defects, I linked only one of Moonbeam's multiple sources showing multiple peer-reviewed studies documenting the differences between liberal and conservative brains while you just have a feeling that they can't be right.

Clinton handed Bush two bubbles that popped. The "Clinton surplus" is highly disengenous. Amazing those trotting it out have no problems screaming that Obama inherited "Bush's" economy (which was really the Dem and Bush economy, but that conveniently gets dropped).

As for the "evidence", that's been covered. There is no "evidence". Why people keep hitching their sails to this is insightful though. It's interesting to see inner delusions and how they relate to postings.

 

[chucky2]

Here we find somebody demanding all kinds of evidence as if he were qualified to evaluate data scientifically and then presenting all kinds of conjectures as facts without any scientific proof. This was fun.

You didn't need to quote me, just your OP. Wasn't that fun?

 

[Moonbeam]

You didn't need to quote me, just your OP. Wasn't that fun?

just lost my detailed reply to you, sorry.

 

[raildogg]

For years I have said that we would rather die than awaken to the truth of what we feel. Science has diagnosed this trait as a defect in the conservative brain, that conservatives will do any amount of rationalization and alternate reality building that's needed to remain in the deranged mental state of denial of truths that offend their ego. I have said over and over, also, that we create what we fear, in this case the destruction of the United States. The wonderful twisted mentality of a Republican congress is about to destroy the country to save it. We see the drunk and his addiction heading down a road that goes off a cliff. The country is in the hands of psychotics and there is no help for them.

For two hundred years the US has maintained good faith and credit and that's about to be blown away thanks to the fact that conservatives are badly emotionally damaged and need concessions to ease their pain. Those who project the greatest toughness are our biggest babies.

But for some reason some of you aren't so insane and I just wanted to thank you for that. We are going to have a test. Will the monster of the Id win?

Moonbeam, your posts are generally deeper than most posts here. However, I must say that this post of yours is rather superficial and doesn't deal with the grand problem.

All these problems with politics have always been with us. Nothing new. Budget fights and all the rest.

When are we going to deal with the big problem? Forget Democrats and Republicans. That's very minor stuff. When are we going to deal with the human mindset? After all, that human mindset creates extremely stupid things such as terms like liberal, conservative, Democrat and Republican and a billion other things. Labeling people into narrow fields.

When we change the way we approach things, everything will change. No politician will change our minds for us. We have to do it ourselves. These politicians come from us. The corruption exists in society and therefore in politics. Not the other way around. So once we as people get better, everything will get better. But that takes each of us doing our own work to change ourselves.

 

[sm625]

We see the drunk and his addiction heading down a road that goes off a cliff.

It is funny that you would choose to use a drunk analogy since the US is completely drunk on debt. And as always the drunkard is presented with two options:

1. More booze (ie more borrowing, more debt)
2. Quit drinking, join AA, stop raising the debt ceiling, run a surplus.

And make no mistake the US is completely drunk on debt. From Market Ticker:

You borrow $10,000 @ 10%. Your coupon cost (annually) is $1,000 (interest.)

You never intend to pay back the principal when you initiate this cycle (note that the US Government has never actually reduced its indebtedness over the entirety of this 30 year period.)

Now the cost of borrowing goes to 8%. You now can borrow $12,500 -- another $2,500 in principal -- and you do so and immediately spend it.

Then the cost of borrowing goes to 6%. You can now borrow $16,667 and do so, adding another $4,166 in debt, and you spend that $4,166.

Then the cost of borrowing goes to 4%. You can then borrow $25,000, $8,333 more, and you do so and spend it.

And finally the cost of borrowing goes to near where it is now, 2%, and you can borrow and spend another $25,000.

You started with $10,000 out in borrowing with a $1,000 interest cost. You now have $50,000 outstanding with the same $1,000 interest cost, and that $40,000 gets spent, driving up the "price" of assets.

This cycle has to stop. It is going to end whether anyone wants it to or not. The only question is whether the drunk is going to quit voluntarily or quit when his liver explodes.

 

[ivwshane]

It is funny that you would choose to use a drunk analogy since the US is completely drunk on debt. And as always the drunkard is presented with two options:

1. More booze (ie more borrowing, more debt)
2. Quit drinking, join AA, stop raising the debt ceiling, run a surplus.

And make no mistake the US is completely drunk on debt. From Market Ticker:


This cycle has to stop. It is going to end whether anyone wants it to or not. The only question is whether the drunk is going to quit voluntarily or quit when his liver explodes.

I'm curious as to what you think our goal should be for a GDP to debt ratio? And how you came to that percentage?

 

[Moonbeam]

It is funny that you would choose to use a drunk analogy since the US is completely drunk on debt. And as always the drunkard is presented with two options:

1. More booze (ie more borrowing, more debt)
2. Quit drinking, join AA, stop raising the debt ceiling, run a surplus.

And make no mistake the US is completely drunk on debt. From Market Ticker:


This cycle has to stop. It is going to end whether anyone wants it to or not. The only question is whether the drunk is going to quit voluntarily or quit when his liver explodes.

Look, the thing about the conservative brain defect is that it exists because conservatives don't want to see they have it. It is this denial that puts at risk the full faith and credit of the United States. It's not that you're bad people but that you actually feel you are and are in denial about it. That's why I get all the hate coming at me when I point it out. You feel I am trying to punish you for being blind when you are already internally suffering from that guilt. This is what you will not see and rationalize away. You are doing it here by deflecting the fact that you are about to destroy the US by pretending to save it. You believe that you are doing good. I am fully aware that. If you could see the evil you are doing you wouldn't do it. This denial was necessary to survive your childhood. Unfortunately it kills you and all around you as adults. Your brain defect saved you as a child. It would be completely insane to hate you. You are in a deep state of sleep caused by an old denial that once saved you. But now you have to wake up to survive.

Yes it's not good to run large deficits but that's not the central problem. The Republican party had done everything in its power to keep Obama from growing our way out of the crisis. And all with the best intentions, like pave the way to hell.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

LMAO!!!!! More of Moonbeam's playtime psychologist postings.

 

[Moonbeam]

LMAO!!!!! More of Moonbeam's playtime psychologist postings.

He just came by to take a shit and pronounce on his sophistication.

 

[spittledip]

You shop every day exchanging some worthless zeros and ones maintained by electron charges on transistors or worthless pieces of paper for food and other goods that have tangible value and talk about integrity? Come on!

I earn my money, I don't pull it out of thin air. My time and skills are tangible. No matter if the representation of the money is symbolic, there is a difference between cashing in time/skills to obtain govt approved monetary tokens and just creating the tokens b/c you have the power to do so (that is until someone calls you on it). Unless you are saying the monetary system in the US is completely fraudulent. Your comments suggest that we need to go back to bartering for "tangible goods".

Of course the integrity of the system is compromised when people start jacking with the numbers. Up until then, it maintains its integrity.

 

[sandorski]

The Tea Party has turned the Republican Party into a Suicide Cult.

 

[Greenman]

Moonbeam, your posts are generally deeper than most posts here. However, I must say that this post of yours is rather superficial and doesn't deal with the grand problem.

All these problems with politics have always been with us. Nothing new. Budget fights and all the rest.

When are we going to deal with the big problem? Forget Democrats and Republicans. That's very minor stuff. When are we going to deal with the human mindset? After all, that human mindset creates extremely stupid things such as terms like liberal, conservative, Democrat and Republican and a billion other things. Labeling people into narrow fields.

When we change the way we approach things, everything will change. No politician will change our minds for us. We have to do it ourselves. These politicians come from us. The corruption exists in society and therefore in politics. Not the other way around. So once we as people get better, everything will get better. But that takes each of us doing our own work to change ourselves.

Insightful post, and right on point. Moonie, among others, can't see the forest through the trees. We've been conditioned to always look for the flaws in opposing points of view, never to look for the overall benefit or consequence. This is perhaps the greatest failure of modern politics. The idea that one system is without flaw is patently not sane. The belief structure becomes enshrined to the point of excluding any outside ideas based only on that ideas origin, not on it's value to society.
For Moonie, and many others, the point of politics is proving their "side" is superior, not in finding workable solutions to problems that affect almost everyone equally.

 

[werepossum]

I'm curious as to what you think our goal should be for a GDP to debt ratio? And how you came to that percentage?

Personally I think our GDP to debt ratio should ideally be infinity because we should have 0 debt. Then when we have a crash or a war, we can issue bonds to fund our special needs or make up for our revenue shortfalls as needed, paying them back as soon as the underlying event eases. As it stands we're borrowing 1/5 to 1/4 of our federal spending in good times, so in bad times we take a huge extra hit over the debt we already have no plans and no real possibility of paying back.

As sm625 points out, for decades we've been relying on the decreasing cost of borrowing to make our fiscal policies look less than completely insane. In reality, if we take in X and spend X+A by borrowing A, we then have to pay back A. Therefore next year (or longer cycle with longer bonds) we must borrow more to cover not only our intentional shortfall but also the cost of paying back A with interest. Worse, government programs tend to grow more rapidly than does the economy AND tend to grow even more rapidly when the economy is contracting or growing more slowly.

 

[Incorruptible]

The Tea Party has turned the Republican Party into a Suicide Cult.

Keep spreading more lies. The Tea Party are patriots who want to fix the US and obey the Constitution.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

...we should have 0 debt. Then when we have a crash or a war, we can issue bonds...

 

[Atreus21]

So where is this source? Waiting for a link...

I remember awhile back he posted this as proof:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...y-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives

After which I posted this. From the same author:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...re-more-intelligent-conservatives-why-are-lib

 

[chucky2]

Boy I'm not sure about that author. This is something I really can't agree with: "They think in situations where they are supposed to feel."

There are so many liberals that feel rather than think, it's hard to take that conclusion seriously.

It's interesting conversation, but really all theory as far as I've read. LOL at people who treat it as fact.

 

[BoberFett]

Boy I'm not sure about that author. This is something I really can't agree with: "They think in situations where they are supposed to feel."

There are so many liberals that feel rather than think, it's hard to take that conclusion seriously.

It's interesting conversation, but really all theory as far as I've read. LOL at people who treat it as fact.

You can't see it as fact because you were raised to hate yourself.

 

[Moonbeam]

Boy I'm not sure about that author. This is something I really can't agree with: "They think in situations where they are supposed to feel."

There are so many liberals that feel rather than think, it's hard to take that conclusion seriously.

It's interesting conversation, but really all theory as far as I've read. LOL at people who treat it as fact.

Clearly you are having trouble buying into a theory because of what you feel. It has to be a feeling because you have no scientific data or alternative data driven theory. Thus you are engaged in a worse process than the one you criticize. But a theory has to persuade a scientifically oriented mind by appeals to data and reasoning and the strength of the theory will depend on many factors and peer reviews. People, therefore, buy into theories for many reasons, some potentially irrational, because maybe you like the conclusions, or because perhaps, alternatively, the data seems sound and other scientists agree. Thus you shouldn't LOL at folk who buy into theories, but should instead qualify yourself with the kind of education with which you will be better informed to judge for yourself. I, for example, am rather convinced that things fall in gravity. But then, if you are right, it should be LOL at me. The article mentioned that liberals lack common sense, but that only opens up a debate as to what common sense really is. Personally, I think feel that the human being is capable of two different processes of reasoning, right and left hemisphere, one that discriminates and analyzes and one that synthesizes by inspiration and intuition, and that a person of real intellectual gift does both at the same time.

If I may brag just a bit, after flaunting both forms of thinking as superior reasoning, I will often just take a problem to bed with me and think on it. In the morning, when I wake up, if the problem is of real interest, I will wake up knowing the solution, having worked it out in my sleep. Now I'm not talking here, about how to make a million, that doesn't seem to interest me, but the last time I did this was to replace a bathroom exhaust fan with a different but better model. I had to alter a pile of crap and intentionally slept on what to do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Quote:
Originally Posted by raildogg
Moonbeam, your posts are generally deeper than most posts here. However, I must say that this post of yours is rather superficial and doesn't deal with the grand problem.

All these problems with politics have always been with us. Nothing new. Budget fights and all the rest.

When are we going to deal with the big problem? Forget Democrats and Republicans. That's very minor stuff. When are we going to deal with the human mindset? After all, that human mindset creates extremely stupid things such as terms like liberal, conservative, Democrat and Republican and a billion other things. Labeling people into narrow fields.

When we change the way we approach things, everything will change. No politician will change our minds for us. We have to do it ourselves. These politicians come from us. The corruption exists in society and therefore in politics. Not the other way around. So once we as people get better, everything will get better. But that takes each of us doing our own work to change ourselves.

Insightful post, and right on point. Moonie, among others, can't see the forest through the trees. We've been conditioned to always look for the flaws in opposing points of view, never to look for the overall benefit or consequence. This is perhaps the greatest failure of modern politics. The idea that one system is without flaw is patently not sane. The belief structure becomes enshrined to the point of excluding any outside ideas based only on that ideas origin, not on it's value to society.
For Moonie, and many others, the point of politics is proving their "side" is superior, not in finding workable solutions to problems that affect almost everyone equally.

Greenman, I didn't respond originally to raildogg's post because I thought it a waste of time. I have made the points you admire in his post for ages. I have said a million times that we get the government we deserve and that what we have is our fault, that it is a reflection of us as in representative. I don't need to rebut his points to shield myself from charges of being shallow. What you don't seem to be able to credit is that I know my ideas are superior. I live in that superior state and know it by it's superiority. I didn't always know things. I know what it is to be ignorant and now what it is to be insightful. All one has to do is know the truth about oneself. We are all the same. What I know and others do not is how deep our self hate runs. You think I'm wrong that what I can see in me is true of you but I know that I know that I know better. I know also that if I claimed that your head was really and truly filled with cotton candy and I had a secret decoder ring that proves it to me, I'd never get a reply from you to any of my posts. The reason my post drive you is because I'm right. You know you hate yourself even though you practice deep denial. And I do too.