Off the cliff.............

[Moonbeam]

For years I have said that we would rather die than awaken to the truth of what we feel. Science has diagnosed this trait as a defect in the conservative brain, that conservatives will do any amount of rationalization and alternate reality building that's needed to remain in the deranged mental state of denial of truths that offend their ego. I have said over and over, also, that we create what we fear, in this case the destruction of the United States. The wonderful twisted mentality of a Republican congress is about to destroy the country to save it. We see the drunk and his addiction heading down a road that goes off a cliff. The country is in the hands of psychotics and there is no help for them.

For two hundred years the US has maintained good faith and credit and that's about to be blown away thanks to the fact that conservatives are badly emotionally damaged and need concessions to ease their pain. Those who project the greatest toughness are our biggest babies.

But for some reason some of you aren't so insane and I just wanted to thank you for that. We are going to have a test. Will the monster of the Id win?

 

[spittledip]

Seems to me that the parties are in cahoots and are holding hands while driving us off the edge. That is just the impression I get. I don't see either party doing much to help the country, especially in this particular situation.

Also, considering our current situation, I don't see how one can honestly believe we as a country actually deserve to have a good credit rating. We keep printing off more money, thereby making our money worth less and less... this means we are essentially paying less to those we owe money to. It is not a matter of "punishment", it is a matter of integrity.

 

[rudder]

For two hundred years the US has maintained good faith and credit and that's about to be blown away thanks to the fact that conservatives are badly emotionally damaged and need concessions to ease their pain. Those who project the greatest toughness are our biggest babies.

But for some reason some of you aren't so insane and I just wanted to thank you for that. We are going to have a test. Will the monster of the Id win?

For two hundred years the American public was smart enough to not believe the shit spewing from Washington and the media. Alas no more.

You do realize that the U.S. is still taking in tax revenue and has enough money to make debt service payments with the government shutdown and without raising the debt ceiling. But hey it makes for great drama. Granted in the short term funds with have to be prioritized... but this is something we can live with in order to have any semblance of a future.

Just look how much money goes towards debt service payments...

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

At any rate the tax revenues are way more than those payments.

Yet tools like yourself will cry we are going over a cliff if the republicans don't stop being babies. What kind of cliff will we approach if the debt limit keeps getting raising with no repercussions? Just imagine is these low interest rates on U.S. debt were to go up ever so slightly.

The whole point of the debt ceiling is to limit overspending by congress... so thank you to the congressmen who are at least doing their job.

I know, you will come up with some clever insult in the face of the truth. Blah blah conservatism is a defect blah blah, liberals know it all and are happy, blah blah. And I would prefer the pharmaceutical free retort. I can wait a few days for your system to clear.

 

[ivwshane]

The whole point of the debt ceiling is to limit overspending by congress... so thank you to the congressmen who are at least doing their job.

Another f*cking idiot that has no idea what they are talking about. The process by which we limit our spending is called the budget.

Thanks for being apart of the problem and giving a face to moonbeams "conservative mind".

Learn something!

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/why-do-we-even-have-a-debt-ceiling-law/

 

[shira]

Seems to me that the parties are in cahoots and are holding hands while driving us off the edge. That is just the impression I get. I don't see either party doing much to help the country, especially in this particular situation.

Also, considering our current situation, I don't see how one can honestly believe we as a country actually deserve to have a good credit rating. We keep printing off more money, thereby making our money worth less and less... this means we are essentially paying less to those we owe money to. It is not a matter of "punishment", it is a matter of integrity.

You don't know what you're talking about. Inflation under Obama is much lower than it was under the great hero Reagan. In fact, inflation is at historical lows right now, and we actually had a period of DEflation in 2009.

 

[Doppel]

For two hundred years the US has maintained good faith and credit and that's about to be blown away thanks to the fact that conservatives are badly emotionally damaged and need concessions to ease their pain. Those who project the greatest toughness are our biggest babies.

No, it's not. You're too smart for this, how do you not know this is empty bluster? There is zero chance the US defaults on its debt. Absolutely not a single percentage point of chance. You'd really have your time served better by catching up on some of the fall show premiers.

 

[dank69]

No, it's not. You're too smart for this, how do you not know this is empty bluster? There is zero chance the US defaults on its debt. Absolutely not a single percentage point of chance. You'd really have your time served better by catching up on some of the fall show premiers.

Says the guy who said the government will not shut down.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

No, it's not. You're too smart for this, how do you not know this is empty bluster? There is zero chance the US defaults on its debt. Absolutely not a single percentage point of chance. You'd really have your time served better by catching up on some of the fall show premiers.

This isn't empty bluster for a good portion of the people spouting it. The chance it happens or not depends on just how large a portion and how much influence they have. The chance may be small, but it's not zero, and honestly the adamant denial that it absolutely cannot happen only helps it grow.

Edit: And here's an extremely good take on why this needs to be resolved properly through congress and not some other option:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/why-there-s-no-escape-hatch

 

[Matt1970]

Poor Moonbeam, he still thinks people take his psychobabble seriously.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

For two hundred years the American public was smart enough to not believe the shit spewing from Washington and the media. Alas no more.

You do realize that the U.S. is still taking in tax revenue and has enough money to make debt service payments with the government shutdown and without raising the debt ceiling. But hey it makes for great drama. Granted in the short term funds with have to be prioritized... but this is something we can live with in order to have any semblance of a future.

Just look how much money goes towards debt service payments...

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

At any rate the tax revenues are way more than those payments.

Yet tools like yourself will cry we are going over a cliff if the republicans don't stop being babies. What kind of cliff will we approach if the debt limit keeps getting raising with no repercussions? Just imagine is these low interest rates on U.S. debt were to go up ever so slightly.

The whole point of the debt ceiling is to limit overspending by congress... so thank you to the congressmen who are at least doing their job.

I know, you will come up with some clever insult in the face of the truth. Blah blah conservatism is a defect blah blah, liberals know it all and are happy, blah blah. And I would prefer the pharmaceutical free retort. I can wait a few days for your system to clear.

The tax revenue must exceed outpays every single day not to default without a debt limit increase. They don't.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-this-chart-destroys-the-debt-ceiling-truthers-2013-10

 

[boomerang]

Who'd have thought the progressive mind was so fragile? It sort of makes sense when you think about it. So afraid of change that they repeatedly resort to rehashing failed policies of the past. Resurrecting them and attempting to tweak them to make them work this time around. It would be sad if we didn't actually have to live through the agony of it all.

Anyway, there are a lot of things to fear on this planet. Many, many things outside of our control. We'll all die one day. Nothing is gained by dwelling on that day by day. We'll face it when our time comes whether it happens unexpectedly in the blink of an eye or it's prolonged. We have no other choice.

The problems of our nation will sort themselves out or they won't. We'll deal with it either way. We have no other choice. Until then, we can continue to blame others. It's not a very productive use of our time but it seems to fulfill some need.

 

[Doppel]

Says the guy who said the government will not shut down.

Go look up the term false equivalence.

 

[dank69]

Go look up the term false equivalence.

Will the definition alter space-time to erase our memory of you specifically stating that the government will not shut down just like you are saying that we will not default?

Just because there is a lower chance that we will default than there was that we would shut down doesn't mean it isn't possible. You underestimated the determination of the Tea Party then and you may be underestimating their determination now.

 

[rudder]

Another f*cking idiot that has no idea what they are talking about. The process by which we limit our spending is called the budget.

Thanks for being apart of the problem and giving a face to moonbeams "conservative mind".

Learn something!

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/why-do-we-even-have-a-debt-ceiling-law/

Maybe you should read your own link. Pay careful attention to the part about how the debt ceiling came into being.

And please point out to all the posters here... how many budgets has the senate put out in the last 4 years????? The Senate went from April 29, 2009 until Mar 23 of this year without having a budget. About one month shy of FOUR years. So do tell... how do you limit spending without a budget?

 

[boomerang]

We're not going to default. China sent us notice. At this point we're just waiting for BHO to come to grips with it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/10/07/obama-china-debt-ceiling-default/2936165/

American and Chinese officials have discussed the issue, Zhu said, and "the United States is totally clear about China's concerns."

Also from Zhu: "We ask that the United States earnestly takes steps to resolve in a timely way before Oct. 17 the political (issues) around the debt ceiling and prevent a U.S. debt default to ensure safety of Chinese investments in the United States and the global economic recovery. ... This is the United States' responsibility."

 

[ivwshane]

Maybe you should read your own link. Pay careful attention to the part about how the debt ceiling came into being.

And please point out to all the posters here... how many budgets has the senate put out in the last 4 years????? The Senate went from April 29, 2009 until Mar 23 of this year without having a budget. About one month shy of FOUR years. So do tell... how do you limit spending without a budget?

Lol! Just because a budget hasn't been agreed upon doesn't mean the budget isn't where spending is cut. And I hope you aren't so dimwitted to believe that just because no official budget has been passed that spending still can't be raised or lowered (sequestration ring a bell? What about the shrinking budget?).


Perhaps you need more practice with comprehending what you read?

I read the article, did you?

The debt ceiling was first enacted in 1917. Why? The date tells all: we were about to enter the Great War. To fund that effort, the Wilson government needed to issue Liberty Bonds. This was controversial, and the debt ceiling was cover, passed to reassure the rubes that Congress would be “responsible” even while the country went to war. It was, from the beginning, an exercise in bad faith and has remained so every single second to the present day.

 

[rudder]

The tax revenue must exceed outpays every single day not to default without a debt limit increase. They don't.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-this-chart-destroys-the-debt-ceiling-truthers-2013-10

The U.S. will pull in $3 trillion from Oct 1 2013 to Sept 30,2014. Debt service payments are ~$30 billion/month.

http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Documents/Appendix -- Extraordinary Measures 12-26-2012.pdf

The government document destroys your chart-of-the-day-this-chart-destroys-the-debt-ceiling-truthers-2013-10 chart.

The U.S. has been very lucky. Our debt exceeds our GDP. Take Joe Consumer. Imagine he had $50,000 debt and earned $45,000/year and wanted a new car. Is he a lending risk? I am sure he would be hard pressed to find a low interest loan.

Luckily investors in U.S. bonds still think the U.S. can make debt payments. And even with the debt ceiling deadline passing... it will. But what about $20 trillion in debt? $24 trillion? Look how much this debt has exploded these last few years. Obamacare isn't going to help the situation one bit.

And calling everyone a truther... is that supposed to make liberals think all sane people should be lumped in with the birth certificate truthers? I wonder what liberal wondersite thought up that plan.

 

[Doppel]

Will the definition alter space-time to erase our memory of you specifically stating that the government will not shut down just like you are saying that we will not default?

Just because there is a lower chance that we will default than there was that we would shut down doesn't mean it isn't possible. You underestimated the determination of the Tea Party then and you may be underestimating their determination now.

You didn't look it up. There is not a lower chance; there is no chance. It is literally impossible. It has been explained above why.

 

[dank69]

You didn't look it up. There is not a lower chance; there is no chance. It is literally impossible. It has been explained above why.

And that was refuted in post 10.

 

[rudder]

Another f*cking idiot that has no idea what they are talking about. The process by which we limit our spending is called the budget.

Lol! Just because a budget hasn't been agreed upon doesn't mean the budget isn't where spending is cut. And I hope you aren't so dimwitted to believe that just because no official budget has been passed that spending still can't be raised or lowered (sequestration ring a bell? What about the shrinking budget?).

Oh hell a moving target.

And since you mentioned sequestration... you do realize that it is related to debt ceiling negotiations??????? These automatic cuts were put into place in the event an agreement could not be reached on how to lower spending.... you do remember the last fiscal cliff. Well here we are again. But pointing out the absurdity of all this and trying to have you understand the impact on your children is... well a fruitless exercise. So you an moonbeam can be rest assured, the U.S. will not default, the U.S. will borrow more, print more money, and we call all be happy in liberal LA LA land.

 

[BoberFett]

Any chance we can toss Moonie over a cliff?

 

[dank69]

Republicans are now trying to explain why breaching debt limit won't be too bad.

Will be just like personal finance, right? You don't really have to pay until third or final shutoff notice, right?

 

[Doppel]

Republicans are now trying to explain why default won't be too bad.

Will be just like personal finance, right? You don't really have to pay until third or final shutoff notice, right?

Your link heading misrepresents what republicans are playing at (hint: third paragraph). What they are really doing is excercising a North Korean strategy of "look how crazy I am". It only works on people who are unable to look two moves ahead.

It is plainly obvious republicans don't want a default anymore than anyone else. To legitimize their banter is embarrassing. You people are better than this.

 

[dank69]

Your link heading misrepresents what republicans are playing at (hint: third paragraph). What they are really doing is excercising a North Korean strategy of "look how crazy I am". It only works on people who are unable to look two moves ahead.

It is plainly obvious republicans don't want a default anymore than anyone else. To legitimize their banter is embarrassing. You people are better than this.

Fixed the heading. Better?

 

[Buxaroo]

You don't know what you're talking about. Inflation under Obama is much lower than it was under the great hero Reagan. In fact, inflation is at historical lows right now, and we actually had a period of DEflation in 2009.

Indeed. Not to mention the deficit is getting lower, and not to mention the debt ceiling was raised 7 times during Bush's years and 17 (!!!) times during Reagan's years and not a peep out of the "conservatives" then. Sorry, you can't bitch about Obama's debt ceiling increases when you flat out drank the necon KoolAide of Bush's and Reagan's reckless spending. Here's a nice FACT-based chronology of the debt ceiling being raised since Carter:

• August 2011 - 16.394 trillion Obama's 4th
• February 2010 - $14.294 trillion Obama's 3rd
• December 2009 - $12.394 trillion Obama's 2nd
• February 2009 - $12.104 trillion Obama's 1st
• October 2008 - $11.315 trillion Bush Jr's 7th
• July 2008 - $10.615 trillion Bush Jr's 6th
• September 2007 - $9.815 trillion Bush Jr's 5th
• March 2006 - $8.965 trillion Bush Jr's 4th
• November 2004 - $8.184 Bush Jr's 3rd
• May 2003 - $7.384 trillion Bush Jr's 2nd
• June 2002 - $6.4 trillion Bush Jr's 1st
• August 1997 - $5.95 trillion Clinton's4th
• March 1996 - $5.5 trillion Clinton's 3rd
• August 1993 - $4.9 trillion Clinton's 2nd
• April 1993 - $4.37 trillion Clinton's 1st
• November 1990 - $4.145 trillion Bush Sr's 4th
• October 1990 - $3.23 trillion Bush Sr's 3rd
• November 1989 - $3.1227 trillion Bush Sr's 2nd
• August 1989 - $2.87 trillion Bush Sr's 1st
• September 1987 - $2.8 trillion Reagan's 17th
• August 1987 - $2.352 trillion Reagan's 16th
• July 1987 - $2.32 trillion Reagan's 15th
• October 1986 - $2.3 trillion Reagan's 14th
• August 1986 - $2.111 trillion Reagan's 13th
• December 1985 - $2.0787 trillion Reagan's 12th
• November 1985 - $1.9038 trillion Reagan's 11th
• October 1984 - $1.8238 trillion Reagan's 10th
• July 1984 - $1.573 trillion Reagan's 9th
• May 1984 - $1.52 trillion Reagan's 8th
• November 1983 - $1.49 trillion Reagan's 7th
• May 1983 - $1.389 trillion Reagan's 6th
• September 1982 - $1.2902 Reagan's 5th
• June 1982 - $1.1431 trillion Reagan's 4th
• September 1981 - 1.0798 trillion Reagan's 3rd
• September 1981 - $999.8 billion Reagan's 2nd
• February 1981 - $985 billion Reagan's 1stt
• December 1980 - $935.1 billion Carter's last year

So, for those with double digit IQ's and lacking the ability to do simple math, I will break it down into how much the debt ceiling was raised for each administration:

Reagan, the patron saint of republicans, raised the debt ceiling from 980 billion (under a trillion in Carter's last year) to 2.80 trillion. That's a grand total of 1.82 trillion, or to put it in omfgwtf terms, an increase of 285%.

Bush Sr, the unlucky one who had to raise the taxes back to get to a sane level (aka Reagan's 81-86 highest marginal tax rate was 50%, it went down to 17% in Reagan's last year in office, one of the many reasons resulting in Bush having to raise them back a bit and getting dumped before he could do another term), went from 2.8 trillion to 4.145 trillion, for a grand total of 1.345 trillion more.

Clinton's 8 years of prosperity not seen since the 60's, and bringing around a surplus that finally was going to lead to the debt getting lower and paid off down the line, went from 4.145 trillion to 5.95 trillion, for a grand total of roughly 1.8 trillion more.

Bush Jr, whose 8 years of dormant economic gains and the more widening of the economic gaps not seen since the 20's, and throwing away Clinton's fiscal responsibility went from 5.95 trillion to 11.3 trillion. That's an increase of 5.35 trillion.

Obama's inheriting, and there is NO doubt he inherited it (only moron revisionists who lack the IQ to read chronologies seem to have issues with the facts), the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression, not to mention still paying for elective wars (aka not needed and not giving us anything in return) the previous administration put us in, and all of the bank/industry bailouts, Obama has went from 11.3 trillion to 16.394 trillion, for a grand total of roughly 5 trillion more.

Considering what Obama's inherited and what he has had to do to, sorry, conservatives don't get a say in "fiscal responsibility" when they were the ones who got us here in the first place reckless spending. The democrats are the place where the fiscally sane RINO's went, rest of GOP are just left over loyalists and tea party agitators who's only response is to burn the buildings to the ground without a thought of the consequences (aka, every single economic expert, aka the ones with a proven track record, not the ones stuck in Karl Rove's bubble, have said that this is going to negatively effect the economy in a lot of ways if it continues).