Octane boosters? does it really work?

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
The "octane boost" you're getting is probably all in your head. - M4H

Incorrect. Though they don't raise the octane by more than about 0.5 points.

ZV

Well, if you're gonna get picky then ...

I really doubt that most drivers would notice if you dropped a bottle of the stuff in their tank. Switching them from regular to premium, sure you might notice a little more pep - but not for a half-point boost (at most) from snake oil.

- M4H

My father reps for a company that makes commercial grade boosters (cetane boosters for diesel engines), lemme tell you, those are noticeable, but the stuff you get in stores for gasoline engines is pretty weak.

ZV

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: atom

Originally posted by: gregshin

Originally posted by: Bleep
Why do you think you need high octane fuel? Do you know what octane means?
Bleep

I've got a japanese engine swap and the car is actually supposed to run on 93 otane

You do realize that octane ratings in Japan are different than US octane ratings don't you? If you've been driving around on 91 octane and haven't been experiencing any ill effects then why change?

I'm sure the car has knock sensors to retard the timing when running on suboptimal gasoline. I can put 87 in the maxima, but it asks for 91, and will run weaker when not at 91.

'suboptimal' ?

 

[Pepsi90919]

and i've found most japanese car manuals tell you the research octane number and not the pump octane (my civic called for 91 research octane, which is 87.)

 

[Eli]

Of course they work.

The question is.... do you know what Octane is/means, and why do you think you need to raise it?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Eli
Of course they work.

The question is.... do you know what Octane is/means, and why do you think you need to raise it?

He has swapped in a high-compression turbocharged engine. He knows. Sad that so many threads with clueless people have made the rest of us this cynical.

ZV

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eli
Of course they work.

The question is.... do you know what Octane is/means, and why do you think you need to raise it?

He has swapped in a high-compression turbocharged engine. He knows. Sad that so many threads with clueless people have made the rest of us this cynical.

ZV

I agree, ZV........ I can't believe people don't know about gregshin (the YACT people at least).... his car is so frickin' sweet!

 

[atom]

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eli
Of course they work.

The question is.... do you know what Octane is/means, and why do you think you need to raise it?

He has swapped in a high-compression turbocharged engine. He knows. Sad that so many threads with clueless people have made the rest of us this cynical.

ZV

I agree, ZV........ I can't believe people don't know about gregshin (the YACT people at least).... his car is so frickin' sweet!

Not saying he knows or not since I don't know him personally, but just because he paid a shop to swap engines doesn't necessarily mean he knows. Anyways, I looked it up in a European Nissan 200sx FSM, they recommend 96 RON. That should be around 92 US octane. I had a link to locations in California to get high octane gas, if I ever find the link I'll post it here.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: atom

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eli
Of course they work.

The question is.... do you know what Octane is/means, and why do you think you need to raise it?

He has swapped in a high-compression turbocharged engine. He knows. Sad that so many threads with clueless people have made the rest of us this cynical.

ZV

I agree, ZV........ I can't believe people don't know about gregshin (the YACT people at least).... his car is so frickin' sweet!

Not saying he knows or not since I don't know him personally, but just because he paid a shop to swap engines doesn't necessarily mean he knows. Anyways, I looked it up in a European Nissan 200sx FSM, they recommend 96 RON. That should be around 92 US octane. I had a link to locations in California to get high octane gas, if I ever find the link I'll post it here.

Yep.

 

[Chaotic42]

You crazy kids with your 8 carbon atoms and your 18 hydrogen atoms.

 

[Eli]

Ahh. I see, my bad.

As for the person saying to use xylene..... Are you sure that is a good idea??

At my former place of employment, we used to use alcohol to clean some things, and xylene to clean others.

You could not use xylene to clean the things that were supposed to be cleaned in alcohol because the xylene left an opaque white film behind as it evaporated.

Not sure if that would be an issue in an engine or not. I guess gasoline will leave some nasty stuff behind if it is evaporated away, too.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: atom

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eli
Of course they work.

The question is.... do you know what Octane is/means, and why do you think you need to raise it?

He has swapped in a high-compression turbocharged engine. He knows. Sad that so many threads with clueless people have made the rest of us this cynical.

ZV

I agree, ZV........ I can't believe people don't know about gregshin (the YACT people at least).... his car is so frickin' sweet!

Not saying he knows or not since I don't know him personally, but just because he paid a shop to swap engines doesn't necessarily mean he knows. Anyways, I looked it up in a European Nissan 200sx FSM, they recommend 96 RON. That should be around 92 US octane. I had a link to locations in California to get high octane gas, if I ever find the link I'll post it here.

The stations that sell higher-octane in SoCal either sell 100 or 105 grade race fuel. I think it runs about $5 a gallon. If my car was tuned it would make a difference but I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to run that gas all the time. It'd make me go broke!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: CraigRT
I agree, ZV........ I can't believe people don't know about gregshin (the YACT people at least).... his car is so frickin' sweet!

Actually, it was more of a comment on just how often someone asks the question because he thinks his '84 Civic will somehow get an extra 20 HP by using higher octane fuel. There must have been a hundred threads about octane where people kept recommending premium where it clearly wasn't needed before this thread.

ZV

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

From personal experience, yes. They do work. Not a big boost, but enough.
Having ridden air cooled BMW and Guzzi M/Cs with the heads right next to my ears.
In hot weather, slow riding & heavy load(as in touring), the rattle goes away
with 104+ used as per instructions. Adding more did not help to increase
knock resistance.

The best booster is tetra ethyl lead, it worked very well. Not legal anymore........

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee
From personal experience, yes. They do work. Not a big boost, but enough.
Having ridden air cooled BMW and Guzzi M/Cs with the heads right next to my ears.
In hot weather, slow riding & heavy load(as in touring), the rattle goes away
with 104+ used as per instructions. Adding more did not help to increase
knock resistance.

The best booster is tetra ethyl lead, it worked very well. Not legal anymore........

A good thing, though. Even back in the 30s, people were aware of the health effects of lead, and many did not like the idea of putting it into gasoline so the engines could spew it into the air.

It took until 1981(?) for it to be banned.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Getting to lead out was a good move. Engines improved and oil has a much
longer service life because of no lead.......

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee
From personal experience, yes. They do work. Not a big boost, but enough.
Having ridden air cooled BMW and Guzzi M/Cs with the heads right next to my ears.
In hot weather, slow riding & heavy load(as in touring), the rattle goes away
with 104+ used as per instructions. Adding more did not help to increase
knock resistance.

The best booster is tetra ethyl lead, it worked very well. Not legal anymore........

A good thing, though. Even back in the 30s, people were aware of the health effects of lead, and many did not like the idea of putting it into gasoline so the engines could spew it into the air.

It took until 1981(?) for it to be banned.

I was under the impression that it was not banned per-se, just had to be phased out when catalytic converters came out because lead will kill a catalytic converter _right now_ and you can't put something in the gasoline that will kill the catalytic convertes?

Are those lead additives that people use in old engines something other than lead? I'm curious here, I didn't know this.

ZV

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee
Getting to lead out was a good move. Engines improved and oil has a much
longer service life because of no lead.......

Yeah.

Some old engines didn't like it though.

It wreaked havoc on older valvetrains that were designed when leaded gasoline was the norm. I guess nobody realized or took into account that the lead helped lubricate the stem and cussion the valve/seat faces, especially the very hot running exhaust valve.

They still sell bottles of "lead substitute", heh.

 

[RU482]

I remember putting Leaded gasoline in my moped in ~1988. Shorty after that it went away.

 

[atom]

The stations that sell higher-octane in SoCal either sell 100 or 105 grade race fuel. I think it runs about $5 a gallon. If my car was tuned it would make a difference but I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to run that gas all the time. It'd make me go broke!

If he was really hardcore he could buy the 60 gallon drum of race fuel and simply mix as needed. Or he could buy 60 gallon drums of 91 octane and add toulene. As far as xylene goes, people use it too the same way as toulene but I remember hearing toulene being better as an additive. Something to do with the vapor pressure.

I don't know many people who want to store large drums of fuel in their garage though.........

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee
From personal experience, yes. They do work. Not a big boost, but enough.
Having ridden air cooled BMW and Guzzi M/Cs with the heads right next to my ears.
In hot weather, slow riding & heavy load(as in touring), the rattle goes away
with 104+ used as per instructions. Adding more did not help to increase
knock resistance.

The best booster is tetra ethyl lead, it worked very well. Not legal anymore........

A good thing, though. Even back in the 30s, people were aware of the health effects of lead, and many did not like the idea of putting it into gasoline so the engines could spew it into the air.

It took until 1981(?) for it to be banned.

I was under the impression that it was not banned per-se, just had to be phased out when catalytic converters came out because lead will kill a catalytic converter _right now_ and you can't put something in the gasoline that will kill the catalytic convertes?

Are those lead additives that people use in old engines something other than lead? I'm curious here, I didn't know this.

ZV

Hmm, after a quick search I found this site, and this blurb:

It had to be phased out by government order, for public health reasons, starting in 1975, and concluding in 1986.

Here's something from this site;

But in the 1960's scientific evidence made it clear that airborne lead was a serious health hazard. Efforts were renewed to outlaw lead in gasoline, with federal restrictions governing the lead content of motor fuels coming into effect in the 1970s.
...
Of course, the voices of caution ignored in 1925 were absolutely correct. Leaded gasoline was good for car engines, but bad for people. Although today leaded gasoline is banned in the U.S. and other industrialized nations, it is still in use in many developing countries, where in large cities it is considered a grave health risk to children.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: atom

The stations that sell higher-octane in SoCal either sell 100 or 105 grade race fuel. I think it runs about $5 a gallon. If my car was tuned it would make a difference but I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to run that gas all the time. It'd make me go broke!

If he was really hardcore he could buy the 60 gallon drum of race fuel and simply mix as needed. Or he could buy 60 gallon drums of 91 octane and add toulene. As far as xylene goes, people use it too the same way as toulene but I remember hearing toulene being better as an additive. Something to do with the vapor pressure.

I don't know many people who want to store large drums of fuel in their garage though.........

Plus the fact that gasoline has a shelf life of only ~6 months before it starts going bad.

 

[Buickbeast]

toluene is my race gas of choice, unleaded so it won't ruin you cats or o2 sensor

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Yes, there are lead substitutes. I have not seen any in a long time. They have no lead content and come-up a little short in comparison to lead. If I were looking, I would search
British,NZ or Au. classic bike or car sites. The classic car guys drive so few miles that they do not want to reseat and revalve their heads. I'm talking vehicles 25+ years old.

I got a pint of tetraethyl lead and a bottle of 25% DDT on the shelf in my little shop to freak drama queens out, those that laugh are OK. I'll never use either one. Its just stuff from the 60's.............:sun:

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

'suboptimal' ?

?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Eli
Plus the fact that gasoline has a shelf life of only ~6 months before it starts going bad.

According to Chevron/Texaco and Exxon/Mobil, their gasoline will last for one year without additives before it starts to cause problems. I routinely store my 914 for nine months with no more thought to the gasoline than to have the tank full to prevent condensation and there's never been a problem.

ZV