#OccupyWallstreet

[monovillage]

How about forbes?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...arriage-after-being-pepper-sprayed-by-police/

On the other, My post said " woman Claims " as i wasn't able to find verification on that one, or video of a clubbing leading to the death of her baby.


Alot of stuff happening you'd normally dismiss and think it's too outrageous to be true. But it's happening.........................

Did you ever read the Forbes piece?

"Fox did not provide Holden with any medical documentation to back any of this up, and as with all unconfirmed reports take this with a grain of salt:"

There you have it Mr. Dupe, or may I call you Gullible?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Her actions were certainly incredibly stupid, but that doesn't absolve the police or those that gave the orders of guilt. I don't understand why so many people here can't hold the simultaneous beliefs that she was stupid AND the police were wrong. Is this really that hard?

The only thing she was stupid of is believing that the cops would not hurt a pregnant woman.

Stupidity of the victim is no excuse for the perp.

"She shouldn't have been holding her money out like that! I HAD to take it!"


>BZZT!<

Wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

It's just so incredibly difficult to connect "putting oneself in dangerous positions" and "bad outcome". She has nobody to blame but herself for that one.

Remember guys, the responsibility to deescalate situations and resolve them without violence is on the citizen, it is most certainly not on the paid public servant whose entire job revolves around resolving these situations with the minimum level of force necessary.

 

[monovillage]

Remember guys, the responsibility to deescalate situations and resolve them without violence is on the citizen, it is most certainly not on the paid public servant whose entire job revolves around resolving these situations with the minimum level of force necessary.

Do you believe the story about the 8 month pregnant woman where the police deliberately targeted her pregnant belly and repeatedly beat her?

 

[airdata]

Her actions were certainly incredibly stupid, but that doesn't absolve the police or those that gave the orders of guilt. I don't understand why so many people here can't hold the simultaneous beliefs that she was stupid AND the police were wrong. Is this really that hard?

^

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[airdata]

Did you ever read the Forbes piece?


There you have it Mr. Dupe, or may I call you Gullible?

That's nice. I didn't read it. I read it on another page and was simply posting the forbes link.

Regardless, we've seen the reaction from ATPN pieces of shit who would cheer on police clubbing the baby out of a womans stomach.

So if anything, exposing just how sick some of the people here are is good enough for me.

 

[blankslate]

They deserve it the most in my opinion. They're the ones dishonoring the noble position we bestow upon them. Remember we CHOOSE to allow them to be our leaders, they are the ones who spit in our faces. I expect a business to be out for a buck, I don't expect those I honor with my vote to try and screw me.

Sure we can say argue who is at fault and while businesses are out for a buck, I expect them to refrain from bribary whatever form it takes.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Her actions were certainly incredibly stupid, but that doesn't absolve the police or those that gave the orders of guilt. I don't understand why so many people here can't hold the simultaneous beliefs that she was stupid AND the police were wrong. Is this really that hard?

How exactly were the Police wrong? Did they not provide ample warnings that pepper spray was going to be used? Did they not give the protestor ample time to disperse and get out of the street they were blocking?

 

[monovillage]

That's nice. I didn't read it. I read it on another page and was simply posting the forbes link.

Regardless, we've seen the reaction from ATPN pieces of shit who would cheer on police clubbing the baby out of a womans stomach.

So if anything, exposing just how sick some of the people here are is good enough for me.

I don't think the police officers involved were monsters that would see a pregnant woman 8 months along and target her baby with blows from their batons. The other woman that was 2 or 3 months along isn't really any more credible.

 

[HendrixFan]

I don't think the police officers involved were monsters that would see a pregnant woman 8 months along and target her baby with blows from their batons. The other woman that was 2 or 3 months along isn't really any more credible.

Maybe such a violent approach to non-violent people is a bad idea in general?

 

[bfdd]

Sure we can say argue who is at fault and while businesses are out for a buck, I expect them to refrain from bribary whatever form it takes.

What I am saying is you cannot stop them from bribing people ever, that will always happen, what we can do is make it extremely worrisome for any politician to ever do it. which would keep our politicians in check and they would keep business in check. business can't bribe someone whos worried about getting a bullet in his brain for taking it.

 

[airdata]

They'd have the same reaction if this lady who was at the same seattle event died of complications from being pepper sprayed.

 

[Bowfinger]

Remember guys, the responsibility to deescalate situations and resolve them without violence is on the citizen, it is most certainly not on the paid public servant whose entire job revolves around resolving these situations with the minimum level of force necessary.

I suspect your sarcasm will be lost on the OWS bashers. They'll probably read that and wonder when you changed positions.

In the same vein, here's a quote reportedly from a French police captain, based on his experiences responding to both protests and actual riots. I ran across it second-hand via an author I follow, and don't have an original citation (so one can accept or discount the purported source as desired). Nonetheless, I believe it hits the heart of the matter:

"One way of doing things wrong is to assign untrained police officers to riot control duties. As I said, it's a specialist's job. Training is necessary in order not to fly off the handle just because the ugly punk in front of the line has thrown a large stone at you. Training is necessary because you never ever break ranks, no matter how bad you're being attacked. Training is necessary because you shouldn't be trying to settle a score with whoever is in front of your line. Training is necessary because riot control's ultimate goal is to make sure that the rioter in front of you goes home safely tonight, even if you end up in the infirmary. He's a citizen, you're a police officer, his life is more important than yours."
​

In my opinion, we are seeing too many cases of public safety personnel behaving unprofessionally. In some notorious cases we've seen a few officers abusing authority and actively attacking peaceful protestors. I would think in many cases those officers will eventually be disciplined and may even find themselves in court as defendents. As long as such incidents remain relatively isolated, they reflect far more on those individual officers rather than their organizations as a whole.

The other, more troubling problem is that many police agencies seem to be deliberately inflaming tensions with local protests, provoking confrontations that don't need to happen. I assume this is being driven from above, from police management at a minimum, and likely from local mayors and other political forces. The excuses used have usually been transparently dishonest, reflecting an institutional corruption.

Edit: I should add there are also cases where OWS protestors and public safety agencies have continued to coexist peacefully. This usually involves protestors who are well-behaved and cooperative as well as peace officers who respect the protestors' rights and refrain from unnecessary confrontations. Those cases are a win-win. Kudos to the agencies and protestors who have worked this way.

 

[spidey07]

I suspect your sarcasm will be lost on the OWS bashers. They'll probably read that and wonder when you changed positions.

In the same vein, here's a quote reportedly from a French police captain, based on his experiences responding to both protests and actual riots. I ran across it second-hand via an author I follow, and don't have an original citation (so one can accept or discount the purported source as desired). Nonetheless, I believe it hits the heart of the matter:

"One way of doing things wrong is to assign untrained police officers to riot control duties. As I said, it's a specialist's job. Training is necessary in order not to fly off the handle just because the ugly punk in front of the line has thrown a large stone at you. Training is necessary because you never ever break ranks, no matter how bad you're being attacked. Training is necessary because you shouldn't be trying to settle a score with whoever is in front of your line. Training is necessary because riot control's ultimate goal is to make sure that the rioter in front of you goes home safely tonight, even if you end up in the infirmary. He's a citizen, you're a police officer, his life is more important than yours."
​

In my opinion, we are seeing too many cases of public safety personnel behaving unprofessionally. In some notorious cases we've seen a few offices abusing authority and actively attacking peaceful protestors. I would think in many cases those officers will eventually be disciplined and may even find themselves in court as defendents. As long as such incidents remain relatively isolated, they reflect far more on those individual officers rather than their organizations as a whole.

The other, more troubling problem is that many police agencies seem to be deliberately inflaming tensions with local protests, provoking confrontations that don't need to happen. I assume this is being driven from above, from police management at a minimum, and likely from local mayors and other political forces. The excuses used have usually been transparently dishonest, reflecting an institutional corruption.

Yes, yes. It's all a big conspiracy theory against the harmless, super peaceful, never did anything wrong, never blocked streets or commited crimes against other citizens, nor violated the property rights of others protesters. Yep, all a big conspiracy by "the man", man. yeah man, fight the man, man.

Or the converse - protesters breaking the law and needed to be dispursed before the law breaking continued and/or escalated.

Damn you OWS supporters are really showing your disconnect from reality. It's funny really and sad at the same time one could be so delusional and willfully ignorant.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

For all the Fox News groupies, this just in:

Pepper spray isn't bad, it's just a food product! What's the big deal?

Link

Gotta love Fox defending pepper spraying peaceful protesters. Faux and balanced!

 

[monovillage]

Maybe such a violent approach to non-violent people is a bad idea in general?

Yes it is, but as soon as someone breaks the law they cease to be non-violent.

 

[Bowfinger]

Yes, yes. It's all a big conspiracy theory against the harmless, super peaceful, never did anything wrong, never blocked streets or commited crimes against other citizens, nor violated the property rights of others protesters. Yep, all a big conspiracy by "the man", man. yeah man, fight the man, man.

Or the converse - protesters breaking the law and needed to be dispursed before the law breaking continued and/or escalated.

Damn you OWS supporters are really showing your disconnect from reality. It's funny really and sad at the same time one could be so delusional and willfully ignorant.

Shut up Spidey. The only thing weaker than your connection with reality is your reading comprehension. Your straw man is so ridiculous it doesn't even warrant mockery.

 

[HendrixFan]

Yes it is, but as soon as someone breaks the law they cease to be non-violent.

Not true at all. Jaywalking is non-violent. Not paying taxes is non-violent. The list goes on and on. They terminology was that the people who were being non-violent were met with violence.

 

[Bowfinger]

Yes it is, but as soon as someone breaks the law they cease to be non-violent.

FALSE! Absolutely, 100% false. While all violent acts may be unlawful, the converse is not true. Period. Many illegal acts are not at all violent.

 

[palehorse]

No, it doesn't.

The way we are set up now, the change has to be done unilaterally. Not just with elected officials.

Money talks louder than law. If Wall Street stands to lose money because of public perception, pressure from investors will drive companies to comply with self imposed regulation faster than our filibustering congress can even pass a Lunch Law.

Protesting Wall Street works simply because doing so automatically gets the attention of everyone in DC. Why bother going to DC when all that gets is a bunch of empty promises?

I believe you're absolutely wrong and that corporations / investors will continue to do what they've always done -- they'll completely ignore you.

You expect businesses to self-regulate before the Government does so itself? LOL! Good luck with that...

/rolleyes

 

[theeedude]

For all the Fox News groupies, this just in:

Pepper spray isn't bad, it's just a food product! What's the big deal?

Link

Gotta love Fox defending pepper spraying peaceful protesters. Faux and balanced!

They are actually right in that it's the chancellor who ordered this. Once you order the police in, you are likely going to have use of force like this.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Shut up Spidey. The only thing weaker than your connection with reality is your reading comprehension. Your straw man is so ridiculous it doesn't even warrant mockery.

Answer these questions concerning the use of pepper spray in Seattle:

Did the Police not provide ample warnings that pepper spray was going to be used?

Did the Police not give the protestors ample time to disperse and get out of the street they were blocking prior to deploying pepper spray?

I think the protestors thought the Police were bluffing and they lost when the Police deployed the pepper spray. I also believe the same is true at UC Davis due to the fact there's no video recordings that were taken for minutes prior to the use of pepper spray.

 

[JSt0rm]

So its ok to stereotype the cops. But not ok to stereotype the OWS?

Oh there is plenty going on from both sides. Including you actually.

I feel bad for anyone who lost their child peacefully protesting though. The police department better lawyer up.

 

[monovillage]

Not true at all. Jaywalking is non-violent. Not paying taxes is non-violent. The list goes on and on. They terminology was that the people who were being non-violent were met with violence.

In the case of numerous protesters breaking the law then repeatedly breaking the law again to ignore lawful commands by the police, then yes, they stop being non-violent. You and others may argue that jay-walking or spitting on a sidewalk isn't violent, but you're avoiding the reality of the situation.

 

[monovillage]

FALSE! Absolutely, 100% false. While all violent acts may be unlawful, the converse is not true. Period. Many illegal acts are not at all violent.

Nice irrelevant dodge to the topic in discussion.