#OccupyWallstreet

[Possessed Freak]

We have a professor at our campus who goes to all sorts of rallies and whatnot. He knows I am a conservative/capitalist and we get into great discussions about politics. He is not what I would call a liberal but more of an anti-capitalist. The great thing about this man is that while our views are opposites (not quite polar) we can have a reasonable discussion about whatever.

Anyway, he was up in NYC when this first started and he said of all the demonstrations he has been on, this was one of the most pleasant. He said he just sat around talking with people about what they wanted, what he wanted, and how to go about getting these things done. I understand there were incidents this past weekend but thankfully he was not involved with any of that.

 

[IGBT]

MY ignorance and denial? Youre the crazy loon who thought obama would fix the economy in 1 year. This thing was fucked before he came in and we have some positive news right now regarding the economy. The republicans are fighting tooth and nail to define the issue but its not working. You just look like fucking idiots.

your obama has never run anything except his mouth. But he is an expert at rallying support from the liberal rage and anger mob. Although lately that has been faltering too. his Cult magnetism is wearing thin among the cult gullible.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Zombies?? WTF are these idiots doing?? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ghoulish_on_wall_st_he7Pz8IHFneJgsKWQtbeNO

This protest could be going on for 100 years - Wallstreet STILL won't give a fuck.

If these geniuses really wanted to make Wallstreet beg for mercy; they should start a hedge fund and bring the market to it's knees with some good old fashion capitalistic manipulation. Of course, they themselves will become the very thing they are protesting,... but, I am sure they will just give all that money away.

Or just buy tons of awful hipster clothing.

 

[bfdd]

Zombies?? WTF are these idiots doing?? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ghoulish_on_wall_st_he7Pz8IHFneJgsKWQtbeNO

This protest could be going on for 100 years - Wallstreet STILL won't give a fuck.

If these geniuses really wanted to make Wallstreet beg for mercy; they should start a hedge fund and bring the market to it's knees with some good old fashion capitalistic manipulation. Of course, they themselves will become the very thing they are protesting,... but, I am sure they will just give all that money away.

Or just buy tons of awful hipster clothing.

because the protesters aren't/can't do anything because they aren't protesting the right things. When they start demanding the heads of our political and governmental "leaders" as well as the heads of Wall Street, they might get some traction, but until then they're missing the big picture. Government is not going to take their side because they were the Bonnie to Wall Streets Clyde.

 

[Genx87]

Zombies?? WTF are these idiots doing?? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ghoulish_on_wall_st_he7Pz8IHFneJgsKWQtbeNO

This protest could be going on for 100 years - Wallstreet STILL won't give a fuck.

If these geniuses really wanted to make Wallstreet beg for mercy; they should start a hedge fund and bring the market to it's knees with some good old fashion capitalistic manipulation. Of course, they themselves will become the very thing they are protesting,... but, I am sure they will just give all that money away.

Or just buy tons of awful hipster clothing.

That would require them to work and create wealth to pool into a hedge fund. Why would they want to do something like that when they can dress like zombies?

 

[Bowfinger]

Heh, that pic of the two NYT editions clearly show the spin doctors at work.

Lap it up believers.

Judith Miller was the norm, not the execption. What a POS propaganda rag the NYT is.

Please explain. To me the two articles say the same thing, with the later revision adding a bit more detail. I don't see either lead as more negative towards one side or the other. For example, it added "tense showdown" which adds color but not blame. So where's the spin?

 

[IGBT]

we all know this is a twisting in the wind obama stunt organized by his cheer leaders.

 

[fskimospy]

Zombies?? WTF are these idiots doing?? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ghoulish_on_wall_st_he7Pz8IHFneJgsKWQtbeNO

This protest could be going on for 100 years - Wallstreet STILL won't give a fuck.

If these geniuses really wanted to make Wallstreet beg for mercy; they should start a hedge fund and bring the market to it's knees with some good old fashion capitalistic manipulation. Of course, they themselves will become the very thing they are protesting,... but, I am sure they will just give all that money away.

Or just buy tons of awful hipster clothing.

They aren't doing it to make Wall St. give a fuck, they are doing it to make OTHER people give a fuck.

 

[werepossum]

Zombies?? WTF are these idiots doing?? http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ghoulish_on_wall_st_he7Pz8IHFneJgsKWQtbeNO

This protest could be going on for 100 years - Wallstreet STILL won't give a fuck.

If these geniuses really wanted to make Wallstreet beg for mercy; they should start a hedge fund and bring the market to it's knees with some good old fashion capitalistic manipulation. Of course, they themselves will become the very thing they are protesting,... but, I am sure they will just give all that money away.

Or just buy tons of awful hipster clothing.

If these people could do something useful and/or profitable, they would. Since they cannot, they are doing what they are capable of doing - comically being useless asses imagining that they are changing the world.

 

[Bowfinger]

If these people could do something useful and/or profitable, they would. Since they cannot, they are doing what they are capable of doing - comically being useless asses imagining that they are changing the world.

Different people have different values in life. For some, lust for money rules all. These folks seem to have different values. Most of them will likely sell out as they get older, but for now they have a First Amendment right to protest ... and I say more power to them for using it. While it's doubtful they'll actually succeed in getting anything changed, at least they got off their asses and are trying. That puts them well ahead of most Americans.

 

[werepossum]

Different people have different values in life. For some, lust for money rules all. These folks seem to have different values. Most of them will likely sell out as they get older, but for now they have a First Amendment right to protest ... and I say more power to them for using it. While it's doubtful they'll actually succeed in getting anything changed, at least they got off their asses and are trying. That puts them well ahead of most Americans.

These folks have the exact same lust for money, only they lust specifically for other people's money.

If I live a million years I'll never understand why the left finds it greed to want to keep what one has earned, but not greed to demand to be given what someone else has earned.

 

[fskimospy]

These folks have the exact same lust for money, only they lust specifically for other people's money.

If I live a million years I'll never understand why the left finds it greed to want to keep what one has earned, but not greed to demand to be given what someone else has earned.

Maybe they don't think they have earned it. I mean how many people actually believe these traders are providing value to the economy equal to what they are being paid? Are they really 10, 100, or even 1000 times more useful than an engineer?

Amazing the amount of rage that comes from people on this board towards those who are doing nothing more than protesting the fact that Wall St. fucked us all over...something that most people on this board are in general agreement on.

 

[werepossum]

Maybe they don't think they have earned it. I mean how many people actually believe these traders are providing value to the economy equal to what they are being paid? Are they really 10, 100, or even 1000 times more useful than an engineer?

Amazing the amount of rage that comes from people on this board towards those who are doing nothing more than protesting the fact that Wall St. fucked us all over...something that most people on this board are in general agreement on.

That's not rage, that's amused disdain. Or perhaps disdainful amusement.

I'm all for changing the laws to make trading less profitable. If you think that happens by dressing en masse as zombies and demanding the abolition of debt across the world and a $20 minimum wage, well, it's still a free country.

 

[fskimospy]

That's not rage, that's amused disdain. Or perhaps disdainful amusement.

I'm all for changing the laws to make trading less profitable. If you think that happens by dressing en masse as zombies and demanding the abolition of debt across the world and a $20 minimum wage, well, it's still a free country.

Nah, there's definitely anger at them. I went down there to watch the other day and there's certainly no single ideology represented. Sure some people might want the abolition of worldwide debt, but that's hardly the motivating factor behind them. The motivating factor is basically that these assholes are looting the world, and they're right.

As for complaining about their tactics, well it seems like they are getting the last laugh. It's gone from something small to something that has spread to a number of additional cities, is getting ever denser news coverage, etc. Maybe zombies is the way.

 

[Macamus Prime]

They aren't doing it to make Wall St. give a fuck, they are doing it to make OTHER people give a fuck.

Other people,.... such as themselves? Because that is who else is joining them.

The facts of fraud and deceptions are pretty publicly known with Wall Street. How about they make "other people" never forget how much corruption is actually going on?

Forget the hedge fund approach - how about they start a mission where they constantly plant themselves in corporate America, for the purposes of exposing and outing all the bad shit that goes on? I would respect them more for taking that approach, instead of complaining. Mostly because this approach WILL yield results.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Amazing the amount of rage that comes from people on this board towards those who are doing nothing more than protesting the fact that Wall St. fucked us all over...something that most people on this board are in general agreement on.

Agreed, and it's why I don't get into discussions with these people. Reddit has much more intellectual discussions on issues like this, and I'm sure many other sites do as well, but for some reason it just doesn't happen here. Makes me wonder why I bother with the Anandtech forums anymore.

 

[Nebor]

Agreed, and it's why I don't get into discussions with these people. Reddit has much more intellectual discussions on issues like this, and I'm sure many other sites do as well, but for some reason it just doesn't happen here. Makes me wonder why I bother with the Anandtech forums anymore.

I'd say it's probably because most people on AT P&N are smart enough, and know well another well enough to know that arguing on here is pointless. No one is going to change their mind based on what someone else says. It goes back to the old "arguing on the internet" joke.

The people on Reddit and other places actually think their opinions matter, and that voicing them on the internet will in some way change the course of events. They're basically screaming in an open field in the night.

The people on AT P&N have been here long enough to get past that silly misconception and instead have evolved into hilarious caricatures of those Reddit people who take their convictions so seriously.

 

[matt0611]

I think these protestors are about half right in what their grievances are, but I think they have some misunderstandings about what the solution is.

I think the tea party has some problems with consistency and they have some problems with supporting candidates that don't even really believe in solving the actual problems that we have. Also can be a little bit out there at times...

I think it would be fun to see the tea party join up with these occupywallstreet people because they have some of the same core grievances about corporatism, lobbying, bailouts, and about the mainstream media.

I don't know if it could ever happen because of some irreconcilable differences, but damn that would be fun to see IMO. Would probably be able to actually make some real changes too.
Would be nice to see people coming together to make some changes rather than fighting each other for once...

 

[AnonymouseUser]

I'd say it's probably because most people on AT P&N are smart enough, and know well another well enough to know that arguing on here is pointless. No one is going to change their mind based on what someone else says. It goes back to the old "arguing on the internet" joke.

The people on Reddit and other places actually think their opinions matter, and that voicing them on the internet will in some way change the course of events. They're basically screaming in an open field in the night.

The people on AT P&N have been here long enough to get past that silly misconception and instead have evolved into hilarious caricatures of those Reddit people who take their convictions so seriously.

I understand the occasional rage post, but if people aren't going to engage in meaningful conversation, why bother saying anything at all?

Also, I wouldn't say most people on AT P&N are "smart enough", but rather just a bunch of "cocky know-it-alls".

 

[werepossum]

Other people,.... such as themselves? Because that is who else is joining them.

The facts of fraud and deceptions are pretty publicly known with Wall Street. How about they make "other people" never forget how much corruption is actually going on?

Forget the hedge fund approach - how about they start a mission where they constantly plant themselves in corporate America, for the purposes of exposing and outing all the bad shit that goes on? I would respect them more for taking that approach, instead of complaining. Mostly because this approach WILL yield results.

That's actually a damn good idea. It requires hard work though, and getting up every day. Much easier to dress up as a zombie for a few hours on a few days and insist that someone else change things to suit you.

 

[Bowfinger]

These folks have the exact same lust for money, only they lust specifically for other people's money.

Nonsense. Given that there are so many individuals involved, that's no doubt true of some of them, but there's no basis for generalizing it to the group as a whole. That's just a rationalization to excuse your own greed, or at least the greed of those you're defending. It's easy to demonize others when you can invent your attacks.

If I live a million years I'll never understand why the left finds it greed to want to keep what one has earned, but not greed to demand to be given what someone else has earned.

You really need to concoct better straw men. The issue on Wall Street is two fold. First, there's the belief that so many of the Street elite didn't "earn" their money at all, but essentially stole it. Then there's the outrage that in the process of raping our economy they so screwed it up that it's on the verge of collapsing ... further enriching them through government handouts.

Of course none of this really has anything to do with your original comment:

"If these people could do something useful and/or profitable, they would. Since they cannot, they are doing what they are capable of doing - comically being useless asses imagining that they are changing the world."
​

That's what I was addressing, you being dismissive because these protestors apparently have different values than you do. While you defend the "banksters" who are robbing America, they've actually gotten off their asses to protest them. Kudos to them.

 

[Nebor]

I understand the occasional rage post, but if people aren't going to engage in meaningful conversation, why bother saying anything at all?

Also, I wouldn't say most people on AT P&N are "smart enough", but rather just a bunch of "cocky know-it-alls".

Because it's entertaining? Very, very few people here take themselves seriously IMO. Which is about what you can expect on an IT forum.

 

[werepossum]

Nonsense. Given that there are so many individuals involved, that's no doubt true of some of them, but there's no basis for generalizing it to the group as a whole. That's just a rationalization to excuse your own greed, or at least the greed of those you're defending. It's easy to demonize others when you can invent your attacks.

You really need to concoct better straw men. The issue on Wall Street is two fold. First, there's the belief that so many of the Street elite didn't "earn" their money at all, but essentially stole it. Then there's the outrage that in the process of raping our economy they so screwed it up that it's on the verge of collapsing ... further enriching them through government handouts.

Of course none of this really has anything to do with your original comment:

"If these people could do something useful and/or profitable, they would. Since they cannot, they are doing what they are capable of doing - comically being useless asses imagining that they are changing the world."
​

That's what I was addressing, you being dismissive because these protestors apparently have different values than you do. While you defend the "banksters" who are robbing America, they've actually gotten off their asses to protest them. Kudos to them.

Straw men? You specifically credited these zombies with not "lusting after" money.

Different people have different values in life. For some, lust for money rules all. These folks seem to have different values. Most of them will likely sell out as they get older, but for now they have a First Amendment right to protest ... and I say more power to them for using it. While it's doubtful they'll actually succeed in getting anything changed, at least they got off their asses and are trying. That puts them well ahead of most Americans.

I'm merely pointing out that to the degree this group has put forth any cogent demands, they have been liberally laced with demands for their own financial gain - free education, forgiveness of debt, a hugely increased minimum wage (important if you're only worth minimum wage or nearly so), wealth seizure and redistribution. It's not that they have no lust for money so much as they have no lust for earning money.

I know no one who works on Wall Street, although if memory serves I believe Halik on these forums does, or in a related field. (And while I usually disagree with him, I can at least respect him.) And I have no doubt some of them, perhaps many of them, are greedy bastards. However, we have here two groups. One group works hard - they get up early, work late, in a highly competitive and highly stressful environment. They largely play by the rules as those rules are set by our political class, from their selected education to their behavior at work, and they tend to pay a lot in taxes. The other group paints itself up as zombies, chants slogans, waves signs, drinks expensive coffee, blocks traffic so that people trying to be productive can't travel where they need to go, presents demands for more free (i.e. paid for with money earned by someone else) benefits, and generally insists that someone change the world to their benefit. True, they are off their collective ass, but they aren't exactly doing anything productive.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the relative valuation to society of these two groups, but to me, even though in general I'm not fond of Wall Street and think its contribution to society is often overrated if not counterproductive, it's pretty clear which group are the ticks and which group are the dog. There may be some worthless SOBs in the first group and some outstanding citizens in the zombie face paint, and I'd probably rather talk to the kids in the zombie face paint than the Wall Street people, but the relative position of the two groups seems abundantly clear to me.

Note that if they took Macamus Prime's idea and actually went to work while acting as societies' watchdogs, I'd consider them to be great citizens. But I greatly suspect one will find a lot more students and performance artists and barristas wearing zombie face paint and blocking traffic than you'll find electricians and welders and accountants. Productive people as a whole tend to try not to interfere with other people's productivity.

 

[werepossum]

Because it's entertaining? Very, very few people here take themselves seriously IMO. Which is about what you can expect on an IT forum.

I take myself very seriously.

Alright, so I can't say that with a straight face . . .

 

[novasatori]

check out these greedy hippies