#OccupyWallstreet

[CADsortaGUY]

My main problem with the movement so far:

Seems the corporate media is in full swing discrediting the movement now that it did not disperse after a few days of them ignoring it. What is hilarious is they cannot come up with a new line then calling people 'out of work hippies" -like 50 year oil generalizations are somehow relevant to anyone but the socially retarded. Screw occupy wall st, occupy the media. Only then will something happen when the establishments liars and propagandists are smashed. If we have a willfully misinformed public, how is there to be any democracy?

What are they supposed to "report"? That the rag tag bunch sat there again today? Some got rowdy and got arrested? It's not the media's fault this isn't being covered 24/7 - it's because it's stupid and nothing is or can come from this little tantrum fest.
The biggest story so far is how some are being paid/brought in by the communist party people(or whatever it is).

So how did your little LA romp go steeplebot?

 

[bfdd]

My main problem with the movement so far:

Seems the corporate media is in full swing discrediting the movement now that it did not disperse after a few days of them ignoring it. What is hilarious is they cannot come up with a new line then calling people 'out of work hippies" -like 50 year oil generalizations are somehow relevant to anyone but the socially retarded. Screw occupy wall st, occupy the media. Only then will something happen when the establishments liars and propagandists are smashed. If we have a willfully misinformed public, how is there to be any democracy?

No your main problem was thinking any entity would give a flying fuck. Groups do not care for individuals, they simply wish to absorb them to make their group bigger. Get away from group think, you're killing your mind with it.

 

[michal1980]

Because you're a moron. Apple doesn't make anything here. They shipped American manufacturing jobs to China so they could increase their profit margins. This is the exact type of thing these protesters are protesting. They had Steve Jobs taking a 1 dollar salary and try to make it look like he's doing a good thing, LOL, fool was just trying to avoid taxes. Please Apple not "evil". They're no more or less evil than any other giant corporation. They patent troll, they use bullying tactics to try and shut down competition. They are an "evil" corporation.


Your problem and the problem of these protesters is your target is to narrow, you're all cogs in this giant machine pushing exactly the right buttons they want you to. You set arbitrary lines of "good" and "evil", playing into the same game they had you going with R and Ds, and before that commies, etc etc. The first person to call me an Apple basher in this thread, will just prove my point.

labeling everyone a 'cog in this giant machine' is a great way to win an argument. Just a long way to call every one stupid.

Who made you the smartest person in the world? In my experance those that claim they know the most, and claim everyone else is a sheep, are those that tend to know the least, and follow their blind idealogy to whatever end they see fit.

 

[bfdd]

labeling everyone a 'cog in this giant machine' is a great way to win an argument. Just a long way to call every one stupid.

Who made you the smartest person in the world? In my experance those that claim they know the most, and claim everyone else is a sheep, are those that tend to know the least, and follow their blind idealogy to whatever end they see fit.

I am an idiot. I'm pretty sure I've said that a significant amount on these forums. You're right though, I shouldn't have made such a general statement. Next time I'll be far more careful with my words.

 

[KlokWyze]

Because you're a moron. Apple doesn't make anything here. They shipped American manufacturing jobs to China so they could increase their profit margins. This is the exact type of thing these protesters are protesting. They had Steve Jobs taking a 1 dollar salary and try to make it look like he's doing a good thing, LOL, fool was just trying to avoid taxes. Please Apple not "evil". They're no more or less evil than any other giant corporation. They patent troll, they use bullying tactics to try and shut down competition. They are an "evil" corporation.


Your problem and the problem of these protesters is your target is to narrow, you're all cogs in this giant machine pushing exactly the right buttons they want you to. You set arbitrary lines of "good" and "evil", playing into the same game they had you going with R and Ds, and before that commies, etc etc. The first person to call me an Apple basher in this thread, will just prove my point.

The positive sentiment for Apple @ the moment really stems from the fact that Jobs just passed away. That, and the fact that hipsters are typically Apple fanboys.

What you say is true though, Apple does use a ton of shady tactics to get the best advantage they can, legally, financially and otherwise. For some reason, their shady tactics don't seem nearly as offensive as say Goldman Sachs or Bank of America though... which seems to make everyone's blood boil.

 

[bfdd]

The positive sentiment for Apple @ the moment really stems from the fact that Jobs just passed away. That, and the fact that hipsters are typically Apple fanboys.

What you say is true though, Apple does use a ton of shady tactics to get the best advantage they can, legally, financially and otherwise. For some reason, their shady tactics don't seem nearly as offensive as say Goldman Sachs or Bank of America though... which seems to make everyone's blood boil.

Because Jobs was the greatest fucking salesman of all goddamn time. There's a reason it's called the Reality Distortion Field.

 

[Doppel]

I don't know about that.

The interviews I saw last night of the Occupy San Jose people seemed to indicate that most were stoned or drunk

And probably still better spoken than teabaggers

 

[WackyDan]

I'm not sure 'wacky' is a strong enough word.

They're not co-opted. They're ALIGNED WITH.

Your comments are like saying that the people who wanted to defeat Hitler were 'co-opted' by being aligned with the US military. No, they weren't. They're aligned.

This movement is about 'the interests of the bottom 99%, getting screwed by the top faction of 1%'. Unions fit squarely in that group.

Bullshit. Unions are equally corrupt and responsible for how fucked our political system is.... and Union leadership is squarely in the 1%.

This protest is becoming pure comedy.

 

[bfdd]

Bullshit. Unions are equally corrupt and responsible for how fucked our political system is.... and Union leadership is squarely in the 1%.

This protest is becoming pure comedy.

This is true. Most union leadership is scum and are usually buddy buddy with the leaders of the corporations they do work with.

 

[WackyDan]

I think that is a mis-characterization of the protest. The are not protesting all business. They are primarily against the megabanks and other megacorps that have bought/stolen our govt. with their lobbyists. In this sense, I dont think apple was evil.

Apple off shores 100% of it's manufacturing to contractors in China...Companies that pay their workers less than a "living wage" working long hours. Going by the doctrines of the protesters, APPLE, under the leadership of Jobs is part of the problem.

So is Dell, HP, Lenovo, and so forth... but they make an exception for him. Are they going to make an exception for IBM for bringing the PC mainstream?

Hypocrites... all of them.

 

[ProfJohn]

Ok, I haven't read anything in this thread and have avoided the topic.

But I read this in National Review and to me is a great summation of what we are seeing in many of the people in the occupy movement.

In short:
Too many people in the country today want to have the freedom to make their own decisions, but don't want to have to deal with the consequences of those decisions.

This woman's failures are her own and are not the fault of the rich bankers. It was her decision to move to NYC and try to make it in the music business and it is her fault if she is failing.

Here the source piece which is written by a member of the occupy movement.

I Love My Job, But It Made Me Poorer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jd-samson/i-love-my-job-but-it-made_b_987680.html
Should be titled: I love my job, But It Made Me Poorer and that isn't fair because other people are making more money than me.

And here is the very good NRO piece on this article:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/279545/occupy-wall-street-and-iressentimenti-daniel-foster
In today’s G-File (sign up in the top right corner of this page), Jonah has blessed and cursed us all by sharing a HuffPo post from JD Samsom, of the “multi-media feminist electronic punk” band Le Tigre.* This is the part Jonah excerpts, but you should read the whole thing. It’s breathtaking:

Like so many teenagers, I believed in the “American Dream,” that I could move to New York from the Midwest and become an artist. I would achieve both fame and success, and I would never have to think about money. The first half was true. I made art and lived activism, and I achieved amazing amounts of success that I feel incredibly proud of. The second half, not so much. I have been able to live well, eat well, invest in my arts and make my own schedule, but I forgot to save money and think about my future.

This summer I tried to rent an apartment in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. The process sent me into an emotional crisis and awakened me into a whole new realization of our economy, the music industry at large and, more specifically, what it means to be a queer artist in 2011.

I spent days trolling around Williamsburg, looking at shitty apartments with cockroaches lining the doorways, fighting neighbors, rats in the ceiling, bedbugs infesting the linoleum floors, fifth-floor walk-ups and cat-pee-soaked carpets. The rent was exorbitant, availability was scarce, and I was turned down by two different landlords for being “freelance.” To be honest, I don’t blame them. Not only am I freelance, but I’m lesbian freelance. Double whammy. What was the reason they turned me down? Because it was easier to rent to a rich, trust-fund, straight-guy banker who wants to live in the coolest borough in the world? Because when he met me he saw a tattooed gender outlaw who makes “queer electronic punk music” and isn’t sure when the next check is going to come in? Yeah, I don’t blame him. He doesn’t give a shit about how kids email me all the time thanking me for keeping them from committing suicide. It’s not part of his capitalist business practice.

First, a note on that last bit. The average landlord in Williamsburg is up to his eyeballs in “tattooed gender outlaws,” the difference is most of them work day jobs now. That neighborhood has become the Epcot Center of Scenester-dom and Samson’s arrived ten years too late to get in on the cheap rents. If she’s looking for bleeding-edge authenticity, she ought to try the South Bronx. Kevin Williamson will be glad to give her a tour.

Second, that bolded paragraph is enlightening, isn’t it? It makes me think of what Derb pointed out yesterday — the inane fantasy that “everybody [can and] will have everything” is eternally recurring, and at least as old as Aristophanes. The great, and probably terminal, flaw of the Left’s various grievance-group “isms” is that they implicitly rely on a world in which trade-offs have been abolished. It isn’t just that Samson should be free to move to New York and consecrate herself to her “art.” It’s that she should be free to do that while enjoying all the benefits of her choice and suffering none of the consequences. What she wants is not the freedom to choose but the freedom from having to choose.

What sort of worldview makes this fantasy conceivable? Well, if I had to pick just one French term of art popularized by a 19th-century German philologist to describe the Occupy Wall Street set and its attendants, it would be Nietzsche’s Ressentiment. Why does good old English “resentment” not suffice? Why is the extra ‘s’ and fancy French pronunciation required? Well, resentment is about begrudging the success of your betters as a way to avoid reflection on your own failures. The Nietzsche scholar Robert Solomon described resentment as an “impotence self-righteousness” directed at your superiors, and contrasted it with anger (directed at your equals) and contempt (directed at your inferiors). But ressentiment is what happens when you take that impotent self-righteousness and define a whole morality of good and evil in terms of it, build a whole belief system out of it, build an ideology, a political movement — an occupation.

Nietzsche’s work is highly problematic, and has of course been misappropriated and abused for a hundred years, but I think he got this much right on. He was also correct to point out that out that the leaders of men, the successful few — you might even call them the one percent — are too busy acting, doing, and accomplishing to complain about their “emotional crises.” Contrast with the likes of Samson, who in a stream of consciousness puts all her resentment on paper — writes it all down for the world to see — drawing a line — a squiggly, irrational line, but a line nonetheless — from her insecurity about not being able to make coffee or wait tables or draw a steady paycheck, to the demonization of Wall Street. Seriously, the first paragraph of her piece is all about how ill-equipped and incompetent she is (I didn’t say it, she did!) and the clarion cry at the end is that all this constitutes “Another reason to come together. Another reason to occupy Wall Street. Another reason for change.”

If this is how the other 99 percent think — or rather, don’t — we’re done for.

 

[bfdd]

PJ, they don't understand liberty. They only see the "my side" of it. The beautiful part of liberty is having to own up for your own actions, being responsible for ones self. It's a beautiful thing and once one is capable of being responsible for themselves, they can then lend a hand and help others with their responsibilities. I also believe the word "help" has changed meanings when it comes to "helping" others. When your friend calls you to help them move, they aren't asking you to move everything for them while they sit around and drink beer.

 

[halik]

Ok, I haven't read anything in this thread and have avoided the topic.

But I read this in National Review and to me is a great summation of what we are seeing in many of the people in the occupy movement.

In short:
Too many people in the country today want to have the freedom to make their own decisions, but don't want to have to deal with the consequences of those decisions.

This woman's failures are her own and are not the fault of the rich bankers. It was her decision to move to NYC and try to make it in the music business and it is her fault if she is failing.

Here the source piece which is written by a member of the occupy movement.

I Love My Job, But It Made Me Poorer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jd-samson/i-love-my-job-but-it-made_b_987680.html
Should be titled: I love my job, But It Made Me Poorer and that isn't fair because other people are making more money than me.

And here is the very good NRO piece on this article:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/279545/occupy-wall-street-and-iressentimenti-daniel-foster
In today’s G-File (sign up in the top right corner of this page), Jonah has blessed and cursed us all by sharing a HuffPo post from JD Samsom, of the “multi-media feminist electronic punk” band Le Tigre.* This is the part Jonah excerpts, but you should read the whole thing. It’s breathtaking:


First, a note on that last bit. The average landlord in Williamsburg is up to his eyeballs in “tattooed gender outlaws,” the difference is most of them work day jobs now. That neighborhood has become the Epcot Center of Scenester-dom and Samson’s arrived ten years too late to get in on the cheap rents. If she’s looking for bleeding-edge authenticity, she ought to try the South Bronx. Kevin Williamson will be glad to give her a tour.

Second, that bolded paragraph is enlightening, isn’t it? It makes me think of what Derb pointed out yesterday — the inane fantasy that “everybody [can and] will have everything” is eternally recurring, and at least as old as Aristophanes. The great, and probably terminal, flaw of the Left’s various grievance-group “isms” is that they implicitly rely on a world in which trade-offs have been abolished. It isn’t just that Samson should be free to move to New York and consecrate herself to her “art.” It’s that she should be free to do that while enjoying all the benefits of her choice and suffering none of the consequences. What she wants is not the freedom to choose but the freedom from having to choose.

What sort of worldview makes this fantasy conceivable? Well, if I had to pick just one French term of art popularized by a 19th-century German philologist to describe the Occupy Wall Street set and its attendants, it would be Nietzsche’s Ressentiment. Why does good old English “resentment” not suffice? Why is the extra ‘s’ and fancy French pronunciation required? Well, resentment is about begrudging the success of your betters as a way to avoid reflection on your own failures. The Nietzsche scholar Robert Solomon described resentment as an “impotence self-righteousness” directed at your superiors, and contrasted it with anger (directed at your equals) and contempt (directed at your inferiors). But ressentiment is what happens when you take that impotent self-righteousness and define a whole morality of good and evil in terms of it, build a whole belief system out of it, build an ideology, a political movement — an occupation.

Nietzsche’s work is highly problematic, and has of course been misappropriated and abused for a hundred years, but I think he got this much right on. He was also correct to point out that out that the leaders of men, the successful few — you might even call them the one percent — are too busy acting, doing, and accomplishing to complain about their “emotional crises.” Contrast with the likes of Samson, who in a stream of consciousness puts all her resentment on paper — writes it all down for the world to see — drawing a line — a squiggly, irrational line, but a line nonetheless — from her insecurity about not being able to make coffee or wait tables or draw a steady paycheck, to the demonization of Wall Street. Seriously, the first paragraph of her piece is all about how ill-equipped and incompetent she is (I didn’t say it, she did!) and the clarion cry at the end is that all this constitutes “Another reason to come together. Another reason to occupy Wall Street. Another reason for change.”

If this is how the other 99 percent think — or rather, don’t — we’re done for.

Wow this by far the most cogent thing I've seen you've typed up. Don't take this as an ad hominem, but vast majority of your comments in the past were stereotypical neo-conservative far right perspective, almost exclusively untenable as policy or argument. Interesting turn of events for sure :thumbsup:

 

[bfdd]

Halik, if you had read his links you'd know the last part was copy&paste.

 

[ProfJohn]

Wow this by far the most cogent thing I've seen you've typed up. Don't take this as an ad hominem, but vast majority of your comments in the past were stereotypical neo-conservative far right perspective, almost exclusively untenable as policy or argument. Interesting turn of events for sure :thumbsup:

Thanks for the nice comment, but the last half was not mine.

Got it from National Review Online which is a great place if you are a conservative. And this piece is nearly perfect.

 

[rchiu]

The positive sentiment for Apple @ the moment really stems from the fact that Jobs just passed away. That, and the fact that hipsters are typically Apple fanboys.

What you say is true though, Apple does use a ton of shady tactics to get the best advantage they can, legally, financially and otherwise. For some reason, their shady tactics don't seem nearly as offensive as say Goldman Sachs or Bank of America though... which seems to make everyone's blood boil.

Shady tactics? Offensive? WTF are you talking about? So company doing stuff to make money becomes shady and offensive?

Get it straight man, company, shareholders and investor are in the business to make money and beat their competition with any mean possible, plain and simple. Anything within legal boundary is fair game they will stretch to gray areas, and there are many gray areas. That's just the nature of the business. They are not in the business to provide job, to make environment more friendly, and certainly not there to make social statements like making sure CEO pays are the same level as average worker.

You people attacking business and rich people are fvcking morons. It is government and the president's job to do country, economic and social planning. They fvck up big time and hey what's the best thing to do? Find some sacrificial lamb and divert attention. That's exactly what this admin is doing.

And all you morons eat it up.

 

[bfdd]

Shady tactics? Offensive? WTF are you talking about? So company doing stuff to make money becomes shady and offensive?

Get it straight man, company, shareholders and investor are in the business to make money and beat their competition with any mean possible, plain and simple. Anything within legal boundary is fair game they will stretch to gray areas, and there are many gray areas. That's just the nature of the business. They are not in the business to provide job, to make environment more friendly, and certainly not there to make social statements like making sure CEO pays are the same level as average worker.

You people attacking business and rich people are fvcking morons. It is government and the president's job to do country, economic and social planning. They fvck up big time and hey what's the best thing to do? Find some sacrificial lamb and divert attention. That's exactly what this admin is doing.

And all you morons eat it up.

Patent trolling is shady business. Lying in ad campaigns is shady business practices. Apple is just as shady as every other business out there. lols at anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

[Patranus]

The Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum on the Mall was abruptly closed Saturday afternoon after a “large group of protesters” tried to push past security guards and enter the museum, Smithsonian spokeswoman Linda St. Thomas said.

At least one demonstrator was pepper-sprayed by a museum guard in the confrontation, St. Thomas said. Several witnesses said that more than a dozen people were affected by the spray.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...sters/2011/10/08/gIQAx0x2VL_blog.html?hpid=z2

Gotta love the 99ers. Lets go anarchy!

Give the police props for enforcing the rule of law and not letting these ass clowns trash one of our national treasures.

 

[sportage]

When other countries march in the streets, "OUR" media covers it day after day and send in our news media to cover every grunt and groan. Now, when this is finally happening here in our country, the media acts like 'WHAT?.
The news media talking heads feel these people marching should have some blue print to justify their every move. The same news media DID NOT require that of the tea bagger movement. That movement was just accepted and their every word printed.

If the police started shooting and gassing the marchers here, the media would report that justified. When the same happened in China and in countries off shore, the media sided with the marchers. Hmmmmm....

 

[AnonymouseUser]

When other countries march in the streets, "OUR" media covers it day after day and send in our news media to cover every grunt and groan. Now, when this is finally happening here in our country, the media acts like 'WHAT?.
The news media talking heads feel these people marching should have some blue print to justify their every move. The same news media DID NOT require that of the tea bagger movement. That movement was just accepted and their every word printed.

If the police started shooting and gassing the marchers here, the media would report that justified. When the same happened in China and in countries off shore, the media sided with the marchers. Hmmmmm....

It's all about supporting the interests of the media's corporate/banker backers. These "Occupy" protests, unlike most of those by the Tea Partiers, are actually against the current establishment. They seek to have these criminals punished for their crimes, and that's a problem for the power elite.

Why was the media really so interested in Libya? It was necessary to take out Qaddafi because he sought to unite African nations and destroy US and European power by introducing gold currency. That was a direct challenge to the "sovereignty" of the US and Europe and this is similar to the reasons for the invasion of Iraq and interest in the removal of the current Iranian government.

“If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you’re misinformed“

 

[spidey07]

It's all about supporting the interests of the media's corporate/banker backers. These "Occupy" protests, unlike most of those by the Tea Partiers, are actually against the current establishment. They seek to have these criminals punished for their crimes, and that's a problem for the power elite.

Why was the media really so interested in Libya? It was necessary to take out Qaddafi because he sought to unite African nations and destroy US and European power by introducing gold currency. That was a direct challenge to the "sovereignty" of the US and Europe and this is similar to the reasons for the invasion of Iraq and interest in the removal of the current Iranian government.

Your right, they are the useful idiots, the proletariat. All fueled by Obama's class warfare. This isn't the first time this has been tried and Obama is just following the Marx playbook. Thankfully Americans know what he's up to.

 

[IGBT]

the failure of American Education on parade.

 

[Nebor]

Why was the media really so interested in Libya? It was necessary to take out Qaddafi because he sought to unite African nations and destroy US and European power by introducing gold currency. That was a direct challenge to the "sovereignty" of the US and Europe and this is similar to the reasons for the invasion of Iraq and interest in the removal of the current Iranian government.

Uh, or it could have been the oil that Europe depends on.

 

[Svnla]

Too many people in the country today want to have the freedom to make their own decisions, but don't want to have to deal with the consequences of those decisions......

Not sure if the bolded part was your own words or not but I totally agree with it.

Buy a house as investment with ARM mortgage and then the market crashed, poor me, it is the big banker fault.

Did not follow the law and get into trouble, poor me, it is racist/whities fault.

Put all your money in the stock market because it was going up and up instead of spreading them around, poor me, it is someone else fault.

And on and on. It is always someone else fault and not poor me.

Whatever happens to the "roll up the sleeves and get things done" and "ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country"? (I know, I am paraphrasing and not direct quoting).

Too much victimization syndrom IMO.

 

[JSt0rm]

Not sure if the bolded part was your own words or not but I totally agree with it.

Buy a house as investment with ARM mortgage and then the market crashed, poor me, it is the big banker fault.

Did not follow the law and get into trouble, poor me, it is racist/whities fault.

Put all your money in the stock market because it was going up and up instead of spreading them around, poor me, it is someone else fault.

And on and on. It is always someone else fault and not poor me.

Whatever happens to the "roll up the sleeves and get things done" and "ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country"? (I know, I am paraphrasing and not direct quoting).

Too much victimization syndrom IMO.

Well not everyone is smart enough to avoid those pitfalls. With some intelligent regulation those examples you gave could be mitigated a bit.