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OC AMD 3500+ Lower 3D Mark Scores

C

cornelp

Member
I have a Foxconn NF4 system board and an AMD 64 3500+ CPU.

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FoxConn NF4K8MC-ERS
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-186-052&depa=0
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AMD 90NM Winchester Core 3500+

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Corsair Vlue Select Dual Channel PC3200 (2X512MB)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-480&depa=0
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EVGA Nvidia 6800GT PCI-Express
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-130-215&depa=0
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Whenever I OC the CPU, even running it at 205, I get a lower score in 3D Mark. I did not try to see any results in games yet, probably should do that, but why is it that I get a lower score when I OC? Also, if I leave it stock, the FSB in 3D Mark System Info shows as 200 Mhz. Whenever I OC, no matter what number I OC at, 3D Mark shows 193 FSB.
Why is that?

Just trying to see if anyone can see where i go wrong with this system before I change anything (if I have to).

I have 2 systems, exactly identical, except the RAM and Video, and both give the same results, lower scores when OC.

Anyone give me a hand on this? Could it be the Mobo, or CPU, or what I do wrong?

Thank You...
 
I,m guessing the problem is ram, 3dmark loves memory bandwidth. When you overclock the HTT(FSB) your board is applying a memory divider and dropping your ram speed and/or loosening the memory timings.

Set your memory divider/bus speed and timings manually!
 
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
I,m guessing the problem is ram, 3dmark loves memory bandwidth. When you overclock the HTT(FSB) your board is applying a memory divider and dropping your ram speed and/or loosening the memory timings.

Set your memory divider/bus speed and timings manually!
Click to expand...

Hmm, thats what I wanted to know actually. When I OC the CPU, I left the RAM settings in the BIOS on AUTO, but was not 100% sure if I should change em manually. I guess I will change those and see how it goes.

Thank You Very Much...
 
It varies with which 3Dmark as well.

3dMark03 and 05 need a certain level of bandwidth and CPU power, and anything after that is not helping the score at all. So long as you have enough CPU and bandwidth, it's enough. The game engine does not CPU scale as well as it should, but that's the way it is. If it (3DMark) was built off of the Unreal Engine, CPU power would likely rule the day, but a quick check of the ORB results shows otherwise.

I score a consistent score of around 1410 points with 3Dmark05, and about 6400 points in 3DMark03, with 2.4 GHZ, 2.5 GHz and 2.6GHz CPU Frequency with my NF7-S v2.0. What DOES affect the outcome is the video card settings. The higher the GPU freq, the higher the score. With the RAM clock on the vid card, it mimics the rest of the system in that more than enough is not necessary.

Also i noticed that all the extra heat from the screaming CPU hurts the vid card OC a tad.
 
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
I,m guessing the problem is ram, 3dmark loves memory bandwidth. When you overclock the HTT(FSB) your board is applying a memory divider and dropping your ram speed and/or loosening the memory timings.

Set your memory divider/bus speed and timings manually!
Click to expand...

Again thankx for the help. Seems that if I set the Timmings to 2.5 4-3-7 1T I was able to OC and see a small difference.
I did not use 3D Mark03 this time. I used a Rendering App (DAZ Studio), that I always use to create my artwork. Everytime I went higher in the FSB, I was able to shave off a few seconds in the rendering times.
But I was able to ONLY go up to 218 with those RAM Settings. Any higher then that and PC reboots after windows logo shows up.

At 218 FSB, the CPU was going around 39C Idle, so Heat is not the problem to going higher. Could it be the RAM itself or the Mobo, or the Hard Drive? I mean the system posts with no problem, but just wont load Windows.
More then likely the RAM is the problem, I am just looking for other people's suggestions. My Specs are below, and info on the RAM:

Corsair Value Select Dual Channel PC3200 (2X512MB)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-480&depa=0

This is the best I could go to. More then likely I will have to get differnt RAM to test and see if it can go any higher.

Thank you, and if U got any suggestions I would appreciate it very much.

Thank You...
 
Yes I agree its most likely your ram holding you back. But with A64's memory speed is not nearly as important as CPU speed. All the best overclocks on A64's are acheived using a memory divider and running memory at less than the bus speed.

I'm not familiar with your board but it should have some divider settings. On most boards its call "mem frequency" or "mem clock" and the settings are like 200,166,133,100ect...
Even if your memory runs at less than 200, the max CPU overclock is what your shooting for. Start out with the 166 setting and keep raising the HTT, if you can get to where ram is approaching 218, drop to the 133 setting and raise the HTT some more. And as long as your temps are OK you can raise the vcore when it becomes unstable.

With that 3500+ you should shoot for something like

HTT = 260
Multi = 10x (2600mhz)
HTT multi = 4x (1040fsb)
MEM = 166 (210-215mhz)

or

HTT = 290
Multi = 9x (2610mhz)
HTT multi = 3x (970fsb)
MEM = 133 (185-190mhz)

and you should be able to acheive tighter timings on your ram if you up the vdimm a couple of notches.

Good luck!
 
GuitarDaddy, thankx for the help. I will have to do that when I get home. The problem is that the mobo is an MATX and does not have many OC abilities as others do. There are only 2 939 AMD 64 Boards with PCI-E so far, and ATI's does not OC at all. This board I can set the PCI-E speeds and the FSB, and THATS IT, nothing else.
I can set the RAM speed as well, and the only options I got is:
Auto
166
133
100

There is no 200 there.

I did not know that if U lower the Speed of RAM, U get better Benchmarks. Good, learn something new everyday, lol.

I will try that and see what happens, and how high I can do.

Again, thankx GuitarDaddy, I appreciate your help and the info.
 
The 166, 133 and 100 settings are for older memory and for overclocking goodness. Say you want to overclock your 200(HTT generator) x 11 3500+ to 233(HTT generator) x 11=2563. Great overclock for the cpu but bad for the PC3200 (if you don't want to try and overclock it as well) ram you have. Settinge the memory to 166 will cause the overclocked memory speed of the 233 x 11 cpu to reach 200 (PC3200) its rated speed. Since you started at 166 value, adding 33 to the "FSB" will cause the 166 memory to overclock 33 to give you your rated PC3200 (DDR 400). In essence you have a faster processor but the same memory speed. There are other memory divider selections in a good bios that allow you more control than that. You can set ratios of "FSB" and memory frequency speed. 5:4 for example would yield a 250 x 10 = 2500 cpu frequency and 200 memory frequency (if your "HTT" could run at 1250 of course). The 3500 runs off a 200 x 12 with a HTT setting of 200 x 5 for 1000DDR or the 2000HTT you see in the ads. When running at 250 x 10 to get you 2500 cpu frequency, you must remember that the HTT is now running at 250 x 5=1250 instead of default 200 x 5=1000 which 99% of motherboards won't let you achieve. So you must set the HTT multiplier back to 4 at a 250 generator to get you 250 x 4=1000 for your overclock to work at rated HTT frequency. Most AMD64 overclockers I have talked with don't notice any tangible difference at 4x HTT or 5x HTT at default specs so even if your overclock calls for a lower than 1000HTT frequency it is acceptable. It is the relationship of these HTT settings, memory timings and settings (dividers), and cpu frequency and voltage that overclockers play around with for hours seeking to find the sweetspot of ultimate performance and stability
 
michaelpatrick33, VERY WELL PUT. I understand why U lower the RAM clock to archive the OC Speeds (unless of course U have really good RAM to OC as well).

Thank you, very very well put.

Thankx.
 
Thanks guys for your help. It worked like a charm. Lowered the RAM and now it runs much faster. It runs now at 2.552 Ghz with no problems at 52C Temp, but that can be fixed.

2 things that having a few issues with.

1: The Fans now DO NOT show in the SuperStep software anymore(the software came with the mobo that can OC the CPU and show Fan RPM).
2: The Comm Port does not work anymore. I use an app that uses Comm1 for a Remote Control and it does not respond anymore.

If I return the CPU to stock speeds, the Comm Port AND the Fans are working with NO problems.

Any ideas as to what that can be? I can do away with the fan readings, dont usually care much about that anyway, since i have a front Panel Controller, but the Comm Port I HAVE TO HAVE working.

Any ideas anyone on this?

Again, I thank you for the help, system now can render 4 seconds faster per Render Line, which can add up to a LOT when rendering Very heavy Arwork, sometimes adding into HOURS.

Thank You...
 
Odd. Sounds like it could be a motherboard/psu issue. The overclocked cpu draws more power obviously. What is your PSU currently? What are the rails on your psu? Instability may occur because you have a high power draw graphics card and a higher cpu (when overclocked) draw it may be shorting out (not enough current, don't panic LOL) for the fans and COMM port. I would prim395 test, as well as memtest, at your overclock setting to ensure stability. I would also run some version of 3d mark and maybe a folding distributed project for a few days to ensure there is no Windows/hardrive corruption
 
It sounds like your PCI bus isn't locked and as you increase the HTT the PCI bus is going up. This is a common problem with non overclocking designed boards. Look in you bios and see if you have any PCI settings. Some boards that don't have locks will have ratios or dividers much like ram, where you can run the PCI bus at a lower speed.

You can check to see if this is your problem by downloading Clockgen NF4 it displays all your clock speeds including PCI. If this is indeed your problem and you don't have any PCI settings in bios, you will just have to back down until you regain stability.
 
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
It sounds like your PCI bus isn't locked and as you increase the HTT the PCI bus is going up. This is a common problem with non overclocking designed boards. Look in you bios and see if you have any PCI settings. Some boards that don't have locks will have ratios or dividers much like ram, where you can run the PCI bus at a lower speed.

You can check to see if this is your problem by downloading Clockgen NF4 it displays all your clock speeds including PCI. If this is indeed your problem and you don't have any PCI settings in bios, you will just have to back down until you regain stability.
Click to expand...


Good point, but he actually had his "FSB" at 233. Do you think he could that high without any PCI related failures? The comm port went out but his hardrive is what I am worried about the most. If the software was erroring that could be a sign of hardrive corruption and would move me toward your good point about PCI lock.
 
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