Obama's war - Afghanistan

[Modelworks]

Tonight on PBS they are airing a documentary on Afghanistan, it looks to be really good . You can see some of it below.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamaswar/

Edit: If you are at work might want to turn volume down as it uses profanity.

 

[blackangst1]

Marked for later. With deaths increasing weekly there, I wonder at what point does Harvey jump in with his copy/pastes with names changed

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Marked for later. With deaths increasing weekly there, I wonder at what point does Harvey jump in with his copy/pastes with names changed

Harvey-Bot 2009 has already been updated, but due to a bug in the spell check module which runs post-rant-randomization it replaces "Obama" with "Bush."

 

[Modelworks]

I watched the preview and was thinking it might be slanted towards politics, but from what I saw it is not. It isn't about politics. It is video of the front line with the soldiers and what they face each day. I think it is something every American should watch. It really brings home what they are facing in Afghanistan. It is very graphic, includes the shooting of a soldier who later dies and lots of profanity, so little kids around would be a bad idea. I think high schools should consider showing it though as I think many people hear war and think what they see in movies or games.

 

[bamacre]

Frontline's segments are usually very good. You can watch most, if not all, online...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

 

[keird]

The preview looks good. I'd watch the episode, too. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

There is no "finishing" in Afghanistan. The American people dont have the stomach to do what it would really take to make real progress in that country.

Really Obama is in a pickle. If he cuts and runs, it hurts him. But putting in a few thousand more troops and wasting our tax dollars and American lives isnt going to help either.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

My guess is that he's delaying his decision on Afghanistan until it can be overshadowed in the news by a final vote -- and perhaps even his signature -- on a healthcare bill.

maybe...

 

[VashHT]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

There is no "finishing" in Afghanistan. The American people dont have the stomach to do what it would really take to make real progress in that country.

Really Obama is in a pickle. If he cuts and runs, it hurts him. But putting in a few thousand more troops and wasting our tax dollars and American lives isnt going to help either.

Like you really know what it would take to finish it.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: VashHT

Like you really know what it would take to finish it.

Sorry D. MacArther,. if I had known you would be reading this thread, I wouldnt have posted that.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

There is no "finishing" in Afghanistan. The American people dont have the stomach to do what it would really take to make real progress in that country.

Really Obama is in a pickle. If he cuts and runs, it hurts him. But putting in a few thousand more troops and wasting our tax dollars and American lives isnt going to help either.

Doing "what it would really take to make real progress" didn't work so well for the Soviets...They tried just about every brutal tactic in the book...and got sent home with their tails between their legs after several years. (with quite a bit of help from the USA/CIA.)

I certainly don't have the answer to the Afghanistan problem, but it seems like it'd be cheaper to torch the opium poppy fields and pay the farmers not to farm the stuff, or provide them with script to be used for foods and other necessities...script that has no "cash value" anywhere else.
That'd remove a huge source of Taliban funding.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

Its his problem now.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

Its his problem now.

I saw an editor on tv tonight from frontline saying the reason they chose that title is because Obama made campaign promises about it. Not sure exactly what he was referring to , but that is the reason he gave.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: VashHT

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

There is no "finishing" in Afghanistan. The American people dont have the stomach to do what it would really take to make real progress in that country.

Really Obama is in a pickle. If he cuts and runs, it hurts him. But putting in a few thousand more troops and wasting our tax dollars and American lives isnt going to help either.

Like you really know what it would take to finish it.

So where's your brilliant input, smart-ass?

What? Huh? Say again? Yeah....

 

[Craig234]

The title may be in part in reference to their earlier episde "Bush's War", which itself may have been a reference to the practice in the past, 'LBJ's was', 'FDR's war', etc.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

Its his problem now.

and he's the one who campaigned for intensifying the afghan conflict because that's where we should have always been.

 

[heyheybooboo]

It's worth watching when the full version gets posted online but there is really not a great deal of cutting edge stuff, here.

It is fairly damning of Pakistan. They have stepped up their efforts (and that's very important) but the Taliban is still a proxy of fundamentalist elements of the ISI.

Apparently. we have dropped aerial eradication of poppy fields in Afghanistan. I'm very uncomfortable with effectively protecting the drug trade. I understand why they are doing it but that doesn't make it right. If it is such a significant element of the economy AND financing the Taliban to the tune of $100 million a year, why are we not simply purchasing the crops and destroying them?

I also found it interesting that we led the efforts to build a dam in the 1969s to control flooding and provide irrigation ---- so the Afghans grow food ..... and opium.

The story within the story follows the death of a soldier and the establishment of a command post named in his honor. The Sharpe CP is located in a former Taliban stronghold beside a local market --- and none of the locals seem interested in returning to the market. The Afghan people ain't crazy ---- they don't want to be caught in the crossfire.

A local says: ""You have arms, tanks, and planes. If you can't beat them how can we?""

The only person who comes off really looking like a doofus is Richard Holbrooke. I snickered when he said we were not nation building.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

Its his problem now.

and he's the one who campaigned for intensifying the afghan conflict because that's where we should have always been.

I don't remember the campaigns perfectly, but I don't think he suggested intensifying the conflict, I think he suggested focusing on it as opposed to focusing on Iraq.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

Its his problem now.

and he's the one who campaigned for intensifying the afghan conflict because that's where we should have always been.

I don't remember the campaigns perfectly, but I don't think he suggested intensifying the conflict, I think he suggested focusing on it as opposed to focusing on Iraq.

Don't let that get in the way of the right-wing lunatics on this site branding Obama a warmonger: "Obama's War", lol

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Apparently. we have dropped aerial eradication of poppy fields in Afghanistan. I'm very uncomfortable with effectively protecting the drug trade. I understand why they are doing it but that doesn't make it right. If it is such a significant element of the economy AND financing the Taliban to the tune of $100 million a year, why are we not simply purchasing the crops and destroying them?

I was surprised about that too. I understand that the farmers depend on it for their income, but I see this as a future problem . If they allow the farmers to keep it now with the idea they will stop them from using it later, the Taliban are smart enough to know they can use that to win over the farmers saying things like "Those Americans may be nice now but if they win they will destroy your crops and leave you with nothing"

The story within the story follows the death of a soldier and the establishment of a command post named in his honor. The Sharpe CP is located in a former Taliban stronghold beside a local market --- and none of the locals seem interested in returning to the market. The Afghan people ain't crazy ---- they don't want to be caught in the crossfire.

I think a solution to the market would be for the US to start selling supplies there. Open it up and create some shops protected by the military to get the locals back into using the space.

A local says: ""You have arms, tanks, and planes. If you can't beat them how can we?""

I can understand his thinking. These are farmers and poor people. They don't have many resources and know that the soldiers are not there 24/7 to protect them . If they give up a Taliban member then chances are they will die before the soldiers can protect them.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm not sure how the hell this is "Obama's War."

He certainly didn't start it, but it LOOKS like he's trying to finish what Bush started and then more-or-less abandoned.

Its his problem now.

and he's the one who campaigned for intensifying the afghan conflict because that's where we should have always been.

I don't remember the campaigns perfectly, but I don't think he suggested intensifying the conflict, I think he suggested focusing on it as opposed to focusing on Iraq.

Whatever it was he focused on it as something that really needs to be given more attention.

PBS documentaries are great. Basically most if not all news orgs in the US should be dissolved and more money given to PBS to hire more real journalists.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Frontline's segments are usually very good. You can watch most, if not all, online...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

Thx for the link.

 

[bamacre]

You can already watch it online...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamaswar/view/

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Marked for later. With deaths increasing weekly there, I wonder at what point does Harvey jump in with his copy/pastes with names changed

Perhaps you do not understand the issue at all or you are just trying to score cheap point by introducing a complete strawman while trying to turn the issue around on him?

Well, let me tell you this, the war in Afghanistan was lost when the troops were pulled out to go fight Iraq because the US knew they had WMD's, they knew exactly where too, they said they knew, they also knew that the US should fear an imminent attack from Iraq.

You can spin and twirl your head around as many times as you like but the truth is, the Afghanistan war is lost and it's because of GW Bush and Tony Blair that it is lost.

The Taliban were pinned down, they had nowhere to run, all that was neccessary was to keep them contained and bomb the living daylights out of a deserted area.

What was done was... SO FUCKING STUPID... RETREAT and surrender was basically the order, let them go, Iraq is an imminent threat and much more urgent.

So we left and let the Talibans regroup, spread and for the first time in FIVE centuries a Muslim terrorism wave bigger than that of other groups was created (before Iraq LTTE was responsible for WAY more terrorist attacks, more than 10x as many).

Now there are Talibans living with the people, you can't eradicate them, you can't win, it's fucking over.

It was lost when the troops were moved out.