Obama's tax plan, is the magic number $250k, $200k or $150k

[Alistar7]

How dare you question the Messiah Fern, just swallow the kool aid and vote for:

Come
Help
A
Nimcompoop
Get
Elected

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
How dare you question the Messiah Fern, just swallow the kool aid and vote for:

Come
Help
A
Nimcompoop
Get
Elected

That's how McCain spells change, right?

There's something really pathetic about some asshat who comes on here out of nowhere chanting nothing but old tired partisan talking points, and then has the gall to call everyone else "sheep" and koolaid drinkers. At least pretend to have some original thought of your own before flinging that accusation around, eh?

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
How dare you question the Messiah Fern, just swallow the kool aid and vote for:

Come
Help
A
Nimcompoop
Get
Elected

Alternate Version:

Cocaine
Helps
All
Nationalities
Get
Elected

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Alistar7
How dare you question the Messiah Fern, just swallow the kool aid and vote for:

Come
Help
A
Nimcompoop
Get
Elected

That's how McCain spells change, right?

There's something really pathetic about some asshat who comes on here out of nowhere chanting nothing but old tired partisan talking points, and then has the gall to call everyone else "sheep" and koolaid drinkers. At least pretend to have some original thought of your own before flinging that accusation around, eh?

Vic, sadly, how do you feel your posts are any different? As a matter of fact, are anyone's posts here any different? Myself included. Get over it.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: ElFenix
there is almost no such thing as a marriage penalty. mostly there is a marriage benefit.

If a couple makes more than $250k, it may be more beneficial to them to file separately than joint if individuals aren't going to get taxed higher unless they make more than $200k+.

But the number of couples making that amount is so small it really doesn't matter.

The benefit of being married is the extra exemption, but that's not very useful if your spouse brings in much money. It is useful for single income households however.

Again, there is NO tax benefit to filing seperately.

No, getting married does NOt create an extra personal exemption. I individual has 1 exemption. When you get married each person still get's their same 1 exemption. Two people on a single tax return means two exemptions in total.

Fern

That's exactly what I said. If I'm the only one with income, and I file alone, I get 1. If I file with my spouse, I get 2. Therefore it's an extra exemption for me (since I'm the only one with income).

 

[Alistar7]

Funny I voted for Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore, then passed in 2004.

<--- hard core necon....

Tired old partisan talking points? Like the democratic ones about McCain? At least the GOP is using legitimate ones, although Obama is making that (McCain = Bush) stick.


Raise taxes on business, raise capital gains taxes, increases deficit spending. How does that help the average working person?

We will get lost jobs, fewer benefits, higher prices, decreases tax revenue due to people holding onto capital gains, deficit spending results in an even lower valued dollar, an increased trade deficit, and a lower standard of living.

Sorry I can't back the Democratic candidate his time. Give me the chance to vote for Bill again please...

 

[sportage]

After 8 years of republican rule, we just sold the farm to bail out everyone...
so can you REALLY expect a tax cut??? Does it matter??? Is the subject not moot????
The checks in the mail??? Don?t hold your breath???
Like another candidate once said years ago... "you WILL get a tax increase. The other side wont tell you that... I just did..."

But ANyhow...
Its 250000 for a family
its 200000 individual

And what Biden was saying (IF YOU LISTENED TO HIM FOR ONCE) what Biden was saying is the (quote)" 150000 "(unquote) figure was the general followed "standard" taken into account when congress discussed taxes.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Funny I voted for Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore, then passed in 2004.

<--- hard core necon....

Tired old partisan talking points? Like the democratic ones about McCain? At least the GOP is using legitimate ones, although Obama is making that (McCain = Bush) stick.


Raise taxes on business, raise capital gains taxes, increases deficit spending. How does that help the average working person?

We will get lost jobs, fewer benefits, higher prices, decreases tax revenue due to people holding onto capital gains, deficit spending results in an even lower valued dollar, an increased trade deficit, and a lower standard of living.

What do you think we have now under your Neocon heroes?

I really don't understand this brainwashing spell you hardcore Neocons are under.

There has to be early 1900 ties.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Funny I voted for Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore, then passed in 2004.

<--- hard core necon....

Tired old partisan talking points? Like the democratic ones about McCain? At least the GOP is using legitimate ones, although Obama is making that (McCain = Bush) stick.


Raise taxes on business, raise capital gains taxes, increases deficit spending. How does that help the average working person?

We will get lost jobs, fewer benefits, higher prices, decreases tax revenue due to people holding onto capital gains, deficit spending results in an even lower valued dollar, an increased trade deficit, and a lower standard of living.

Sorry I can't back the Democratic candidate his time. Give me the chance to vote for Bill again please...

A small tidbit...McCain's and Obama's plans were analyzed and McCain's plan actually add 1.5 trillion more to the national debt than Obama's did (nonpartisan analysis), so both sides are going to increase the deficit/debt with McCain looking to add more to it.

If I get a bigger tax cut, horrraaaayyyy me (seiously). Fuck everyone else!

I'm tired of the big whigs on Wall Street getting all the breaks on capital (not to mention bailouts) while I pay more for my labor in taxes than they do on earnings on capital. Bullshit. Bring on the tax cuts for me!!!

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
I heard it explained on the radio today by one of his campaign advisors

She said that people under 200k will receive a tax cut, people between 200-250k will not receive a tax increase, and may receive a cut

Where does the $150k come in and how did they explain his recod and the $42k?

Thanks.

Jesus Christ man, what $42K are you talking about? Where do you get this crap?

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Funny I voted for Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore, then passed in 2004.

<--- hard core necon....

Tired old partisan talking points? Like the democratic ones about McCain? At least the GOP is using legitimate ones, although Obama is making that (McCain = Bush) stick.


Raise taxes on business, raise capital gains taxes, increases deficit spending. How does that help the average working person?

We will get lost jobs, fewer benefits, higher prices, decreases tax revenue due to people holding onto capital gains, deficit spending results in an even lower valued dollar, an increased trade deficit, and a lower standard of living.

What do you think we have now under your Neocon heroes?

I really don't understand this brainwashing spell you hardcore Neocons are under.

There has to be early 1900 ties.

I am a neocon? Look at my voting record, the only "hero" I have enjoyed as Pres in my life was Clinton.

You are the one who is brainwashed, you admit those are serious problems that only got worse under the Bush administration, yet your candidate is campaigning to make them even worse. More Obama deficit spending is the solution to Bush's irresponsible deficit spending? Gee, thanks for making me see through the brainwashing....

Capital gains taxes are lower, one of the very few things Bush did properly. I blame the Fed for the devaluation of the dollar, and the mortgage crisis, out of the hands of politicians unfortunately. Always wondered why Congress gets to decide how much money is spent, but not how much is made.

Early 90's I was fairly active (especially for my age) in liberal politcs, organized/attended environmental rallies & other grass roots causes. Independent now but still lean towards the left with the exception of a few issues, mostly rights & fiscal theory.

With a better economic plan Obama would be my pick, easily. As it stands though for the first time in my life I will be voting republican.

The best news out of all of this, no matter what we get rid of that idiotic puppet "baby Bush".

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Funny I voted for Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore, then passed in 2004.

<--- hard core necon....

Tired old partisan talking points? Like the democratic ones about McCain? At least the GOP is using legitimate ones, although Obama is making that (McCain = Bush) stick.


Raise taxes on business, raise capital gains taxes, increases deficit spending. How does that help the average working person?

We will get lost jobs, fewer benefits, higher prices, decreases tax revenue due to people holding onto capital gains, deficit spending results in an even lower valued dollar, an increased trade deficit, and a lower standard of living.

Sorry I can't back the Democratic candidate his time. Give me the chance to vote for Bill again please...

A small tidbit...McCain's and Obama's plans were analyzed and McCain's plan actually add 1.5 trillion more to the national debt than Obama's did (nonpartisan analysis), so both sides are going to increase the deficit/debt with McCain looking to add more to it.

If I get a bigger tax cut, horrraaaayyyy me (seiously). Fuck everyone else!

I'm tired of the big whigs on Wall Street getting all the breaks on capital (not to mention bailouts) while I pay more for my labor in taxes than they do on earnings on capital. Bullshit. Bring on the tax cuts for me!!!

McCain claims he can balance the budget by the end of his term, Obama just promises more deficit spending.

I doubt either can actually get it balanced in 4 years due to our international committments at the moment. McCain at least recognizes the problem and pledges to TRY and make a positive difference. Obama pretends deficit spending is not a problem at all and openly pledges to increase our debt by an additional 1 trillion.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Funny I voted for Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore, then passed in 2004.

<--- hard core necon....

Tired old partisan talking points? Like the democratic ones about McCain? At least the GOP is using legitimate ones, although Obama is making that (McCain = Bush) stick.


Raise taxes on business, raise capital gains taxes, increases deficit spending. How does that help the average working person?

We will get lost jobs, fewer benefits, higher prices, decreases tax revenue due to people holding onto capital gains, deficit spending results in an even lower valued dollar, an increased trade deficit, and a lower standard of living.

Sorry I can't back the Democratic candidate his time. Give me the chance to vote for Bill again please...

A small tidbit...McCain's and Obama's plans were analyzed and McCain's plan actually add 1.5 trillion more to the national debt than Obama's did (nonpartisan analysis), so both sides are going to increase the deficit/debt with McCain looking to add more to it.

If I get a bigger tax cut, horrraaaayyyy me (seiously). Fuck everyone else!

I'm tired of the big whigs on Wall Street getting all the breaks on capital (not to mention bailouts) while I pay more for my labor in taxes than they do on earnings on capital. Bullshit. Bring on the tax cuts for me!!!

McCain claims he can balance the budget by the end of his term, Obama just promises more deficit spending.

I doubt either can actually get it balanced in 4 years due to our international committments at the moment. McCain at least recognizes the problem and pledges to TRY and make a positive difference. Obama pretends deficit spending is not a problem at all and openly pledges to increase our debt by an additional 1 trillion.

You got any facts to back that statement up? You keep repeating it all over the place, providing some proof wouldn't be totally out of line.

And just to get you started, Obama's tax plan is revenue neutral, McCain's will cost a lot of money.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Funny I voted for Dukakis, Perot, Clinton, Gore, then passed in 2004.

<--- hard core necon....

Tired old partisan talking points? Like the democratic ones about McCain? At least the GOP is using legitimate ones, although Obama is making that (McCain = Bush) stick.


Raise taxes on business, raise capital gains taxes, increases deficit spending. How does that help the average working person?

We will get lost jobs, fewer benefits, higher prices, decreases tax revenue due to people holding onto capital gains, deficit spending results in an even lower valued dollar, an increased trade deficit, and a lower standard of living.

Sorry I can't back the Democratic candidate his time. Give me the chance to vote for Bill again please...

A small tidbit...McCain's and Obama's plans were analyzed and McCain's plan actually add 1.5 trillion more to the national debt than Obama's did (nonpartisan analysis), so both sides are going to increase the deficit/debt with McCain looking to add more to it.

If I get a bigger tax cut, horrraaaayyyy me (seiously). Fuck everyone else!

I'm tired of the big whigs on Wall Street getting all the breaks on capital (not to mention bailouts) while I pay more for my labor in taxes than they do on earnings on capital. Bullshit. Bring on the tax cuts for me!!!

McCain claims he can balance the budget by the end of his term, Obama just promises more deficit spending.

I doubt either can actually get it balanced in 4 years due to our international committments at the moment. McCain at least recognizes the problem and pledges to TRY and make a positive difference. Obama pretends deficit spending is not a problem at all and openly pledges to increase our debt by an additional 1 trillion.

Nonpartisan analysis stated that McCain's plan would cost over 1 Trillion more than Obama's to the bottom line. McCain never promised to cut spending...only to freeze it on "certain items" while giving trillions in tax cuts.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Nonpartisan analysis stated that McCain's plan would cost over 1 Trillion more than Obama's to the bottom line. McCain never promised to cut spending...only to freeze it on "certain items" while giving trillions in tax cuts.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...tics/main4529142.shtml

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday that Republican rival John McCain wants to cut $882 billion from Medicare over a decade.

 

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: LostUte

Originally posted by: alchemize
best answer I've found.

Pretty amazing. Over a million dollar swing on someone making $2.9m+. I mean, I can see some increase on "the rich", but if I was making that kind of coin and someone took away ANOTHER 1/3 of my pay I'd be getting real pissed.

Note that it is the average tax increase for those making 2.9m+, not exactly 2.9m. Someone making exactly 2.9m is going to have a much smaller tax increase than that chart shows.

Yes, 2.9m+ also includes those making 2.9b+. It is very misleading.

what have we learned from this? alchemize does not have critical thinking skills

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Dari
Maybe Biden meant to say 250K when he said 150K? And the 250K is for families while the 200K is for individuals who will see their tax go up 3%.

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
All these numbers going around are for families, what about individual tax payers? Are the numbers cut in half? Or is there a marriage penalty?

Yes, it looks like up to $250K for a "family" and $200K for a single taxpayer, thus there would be a marriage "penalty". I don't understand why in the heck he wants to do that. You're better off not getting married (or getting divorced) as it would result in $150K being taxed in a lower bracket. That's stupid.

It wasn't that long ago that we got rid of the "marriage penalty" in fed income tax, why go back?

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: ElFenix
there is almost no such thing as a marriage penalty. mostly there is a marriage benefit.

If a couple makes more than $250k, it may be more beneficial to them to file separately than joint if individuals aren't going to get taxed higher unless they make more than $200k+.

Yes, we had a "marriage penalty" for some time, but it was fixed several years ago (in the GWB tax package in 2001).

No, there is no benefit to being married under tax law, for a while (under Clinton) there was, in fact, a penalty (i.e., two people were better off tax-wise remaining unmarried).

No filing "married filing seperately" offers no benefit whatsoever and certainly wouldn't get rid of any marriage penalty (under married filing seperately, everything for MFJ is simply chopped in half). MFS usually results in higher tax than MFJ, but never less.

There are a number of apparently useless ideas in Obama's plan (politicians and tax are a joke). Obama is said not want to reduce/eliminate the AMT (but will adjust the AMT deduction for inflation). If so, the many people making less than $250K (or $200K) will not get a reduction at all, they'll still be paying AMT. Moreover, Obama wants to phase-out deductions etc, while not increasing the tax rate per se, it will result in additional tax for some of those (not in AMT) making substanialy less than $250K. In tax lingo, this is a *back door* rate increase. I.e., looks like he's being disengenuois.

Likewise, even if he raises (regular) tax rates on those making above $250K, since are in AMT they may not actuall pay more taxes.

Eliminating cap gains for small business? Small businesses don't have capital gains except very very rarely. So, this makes no sense that I can tell. If this is intended to make investing in small business more attractive, it doesn't look intellegent to me. We already have very low cap gain rates for (profitable) sales of small business stock, and a provision that allows a complete write-off (against regular income) for any investment lost.

Much of his plan looks like *populist BS* to me, but hard to say for sure because it's so vague. But his plan isn't going to pass Congress without a lot of changes anyway. And I don't believe for a minute in a tax cut for everybody making under $200K.

I'll also note that I didn't see in his plan anything about eliminating the *fund manager* loophole that let's Warren Buffet pay such low taxes. I also note that the Dems have always blocked closure of that loophole (especially Schumer). IMO, that's a bunch of hypocritical crap - the rich should pay more, unless they are really really rich :disgust: Fund managers are the highest earners and make more than corp CEO etc.

I could say worse stuff about this plan, there are hidden *gems* all over, but because his plan lacks detail so I'll refrain for the moment. (hint: People need to pay real close attention to his plan that 40 million don't even need to file tax returns. I'l bet these are same 40 million who already don't get taxed anyway, instead getting *refundable credits*)

Fern

I believe this recent bailout bill amt temporary fix was partially funded by closing the fundmanager loophole.

Link

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Engineer

Nonpartisan analysis stated that McCain's plan would cost over 1 Trillion more than Obama's to the bottom line. McCain never promised to cut spending...only to freeze it on "certain items" while giving trillions in tax cuts.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...tics/main4529142.shtml

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday that Republican rival John McCain wants to cut $882 billion from Medicare over a decade.

Cut "overall" spending then. He will increase military spending far more than that especially if he continues the fuck mess in Iraq.

 

[idiotekniQues]

i find it amazing how the top 2% have the hoi polloi fighting their battles for them. these poor sods are ideologically challenged and have been mentally hijacked by a carefully bred and developed culture that teaches people to fight for the top few percent as wages stagnate and economic mobility comes to a virtual halt.

it is quite sad really.

brainwashed sheeple with no clue.

 

[Budmantom]

Or is the magic number $120k, does anybody know?

 

[StageLeft]

McCain claims he can balance the budget by the end of his term, Obama just promises more deficit spending.

One is lying, can you guess who?

McCain at least recognizes the problem and pledges to TRY and make a positive difference.

No, he's simply lying and/or delusional. One is completely fabricating the truth and the other is being more honest.

In support of my statement is the reality that economists have studied both plans and say that Obama's will have LESS deficit spending than tax and borrow republican McCain.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
i find it amazing how the top 2% have the hoi polloi fighting their battles for them. these poor sods are ideologically challenged and have been mentally hijacked by a carefully bred and developed culture that teaches people to fight for the top few percent as wages stagnate and economic mobility comes to a virtual halt.

it is quite sad really.

brainwashed sheeple with no clue.

Because idiots will repeatedly vote against their own interests.

link

Even though I agreed with him, I warned that whenever someone tried to raise the issue, he or she was accused of fomenting class warfare.

?There?s class warfare, all right,? Mr. Buffett said, ?but it?s my class, the rich class, that?s making war, and we?re winning.?

This conversation keeps coming back to mind because, in the last couple of weeks, I have been on one television panel after another, talking about how questionable it is that the country is enjoying what economists call full employment while we are still running a federal budget deficit of roughly $434 billion for fiscal 2006 (not counting off-budget items like Social Security) and economists forecast that it will grow to $567 billion in fiscal 2010.

When I mentioned on these panels that we should consider all options for closing this gap ? including raising taxes, particularly for the wealthiest people ? I was met with several arguments by people who call themselves conservatives and free marketers.

One argument was that the mere suggestion constituted class warfare. I think Mr. Buffett answered that one.

Another argument was that raising taxes actually lowers total revenue, and that only cutting taxes stimulates federal revenue. This is supposedly proved by the history of tax receipts since my friend George W. Bush became president.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Cut "overall" spending then. He will increase military spending far more than that especially if he continues the fuck mess in Iraq.

Nawh, Iraq is scaling down because that is what is proper. Notice how it doesn't even make the news anymore? Ever since the surge, politicians are actually listening to military leaders. General Petraeus needs to run for president in 4-8 years.

I'd love to see social security and medicare get sliced up. Let social security run dry and drop a nuke on medicare.

I believe that the $42k guess is just an assumption that huge tax cuts wont be doable except for people making less then $42k, because taxes on that are tiny anyways.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Alistar7
How dare you question the Messiah Fern, just swallow the kool aid and vote for:

Come
Help
A
Nimcompoop
Get
Elected

That's how McCain spells change, right?

There's something really pathetic about some asshat who comes on here out of nowhere chanting nothing but old tired partisan talking points, and then has the gall to call everyone else "sheep" and koolaid drinkers. At least pretend to have some original thought of your own before flinging that accusation around, eh?

Vic, sadly, how do you feel your posts are any different? As a matter of fact, are anyone's posts here any different? Myself included. Get over it.

Yes, your posts are different. As in laughable in a sort of sad way.

 

[cubby1223]

Obama has previously given his definition of "middle class" to $92k & under.

Vote for Obama all you guys want - just don't be surprised when he doesn't keep his promises. Obama has no history of wanting to lowering taxes. :roll:



Seriously, it's not that I don't think someone making $100k or $200k or $300k is not doing well for himself - it's that if Obama's new taxes on him, businesses, corporations, capital gains, etc. causes those people to lose their jobs, lose their homes, then he and everyone else is in a big world of hurt.