Obama's Tax Increase on the Middle Class. YES, Increase

[Genx87]

Who cares if the rich primarily use this tool? I find it immoral to sell people on a program being tax free and then turn around and tax them on it. If there is a grandfather clause for existing accounts. Then I am not against new accounts or future contributions being taxed. But to tell somebody for 17 years this is a tax free account then try to tax it is effing bullshit. Which is why I brought up the Roth IRAs. Im just waiting for some greedy politician to come along and decide to tax these tax free retirement accounts after decades of contributions.

 

[sm625]

Do you really believe this is the first time Obama has taxed the middle class?

Ha.
Ha ha.
Ha hah hahhahahha.

Newsflash. The top 1% did not steal half the world's wealth by waiting until 2015 to tax the middle class! Everything he has done was a giant tax on the middle class. Obama has only vetoed two bills, and neither one of them contained any significant tax increases. Obama has signed countless bills that either outright tax the people, or serve as a wealth transfer to the rich. If he was truly a champion of the middle class, he would veto every bill until and unless he receives a bill that raises the capital gains tax to 50%, lowers corporate taxes to 7%, and raises the top marginal tax rate to 60-65%. Such a tax structure makes it very cheap to invest in capital and jobs, and very expensive to take profits.

 

[Newell Steamer]

ACA Death Panels, I'd like to introduce you to Tax Cuts Increases - you two should get along just fine,.. hang out here while the Right figures things out a bit more,...

 

[shira]

Buried in Obama's proposed "tax cut for the middle class" is a proposed tax on 529 college savings plans. You know, those plans that make college/trade schools more affordable for the middle class? Yet, because they are investment savings plans, the Obama admin thinks that the stupid middle class won't even bat an eyelash at the hidden tax.

The 1% probably rarely utilizes these plans as an investment vehicle, yet here is Obama wanting to tax them. Why even have a 529 in your child's name then? Just invest the money as you normally would... It is going to get taxed anyway.

I guess community college is good enough for U.S. children according to Obama.

Yes, I'm ranting. I did everything right. When my daughter turned 1, I started depositing money in a 529 plan with a good history of return. Every month a small amount is debited out of my bank account and transferred there. It is for her to use tax free for education expenses. It will help us save for retirement while still insuring that we have done something for her college education (should she choose college). What she will have at 18 years old is up for debate, but it won't be a ton of money, we'll probably still have to help her, and she'll probably still have to work part time and perhaps take on college loans pending her choice of schooling.

I'm not the 1%. Thanks Obama! Or should I say... FUCK YOU.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanell...ax-hike-on-middle-class-529-college-savers/2/

"After the tax law change (which was made permanent in 2006), amounts withdrawn to pay for college were totally tax free. 529 plans thus became a kind of Roth IRA for college savings–you didn’t get any up front tax break (except maybe on your state income tax), but you could rest assured that your college nest egg’s growth would face no taxation when it came time to make tuition payments."

"The Obama plan aims to turn back the clock, once again taxing earnings growth in 529 plans as ordinary income. This is a direct and clear tax increase on middle class families sacrificing to save for college, and it’s likely to result in a mass divestment from this type of savings."

So let us get this straight: If a proposed tax change includes several changes that reduce income tax on the middle class and one change that increases income tax on the middle class, but the overall effect is to reduce income tax on the middle class, your refer to that as a "tax increase on the middle class?"

Some people would refer to your post as "lying."

 

[Subyman]

529 college savings plan? What a nerd.

 

[piasabird]

There are a lot of people in the middle class that get paid in stock options as part of their pay.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

More tax increases with taxes already near historic levels as a percent of GDP?!?! Those Democrats sure do love to tax folks. Is this Obama's idea of working with Congress and finding common ground?

If there are going to be any further tax rate changes, I'd personally like to see them attached to significant tax code reform that includes the corporate tax issue. A complete overhaul of our tax system is needed and we need his leadership...not his childish pokes in the eye. History is going to shred this guy...worse President than Bush if that were possible!

 

[glenn1]

So let us get this straight: If a proposed tax change includes several changes that reduce income tax on the middle class and one change that increases income tax on the middle class, but the overall effect is to reduce income tax on the middle class, your refer to that as a "tax increase on the middle class?"

Some people would refer to your post as "lying."

So when the Romans decimated foreign armies, you'd say it was a good thing because the "overall effect" is that 9/10 guys lived?

 

[piasabird]

Congressed almost doubled the interest rate on education loans after Obummer took over the education loan program.

 

[shira]

So when the Romans decimated foreign armies, you'd say it was a good thing because the "overall effect" is that 9/10 guys lived?

You so-called analogy is completely false. You're comparing a net-loss situation (the foreign army loses 10% of it's troops) with a net-benefit situation (middle-class taxpayers end up with an income tax reduction).

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Congressed almost doubled the interest rate on education loans after Obummer took over the education loan program.

But he says he really cares about the middle class. Don't you believe him?

 

[fskimospy]

So when the Romans decimated foreign armies, you'd say it was a good thing because the "overall effect" is that 9/10 guys lived?

No, he's saying this:

Currently you pay $100 in taxes. If a piece of legislation passes that has one part that gives you a $10 tax increase and another part that gives you a $20 tax cut, the overall effect of the legislation is a tax cut.

 

[MixMasterTang]

So how about someone actually show me some math and how much this not yet proposed tax law change would affect the middle class?

 

[Pulsar]

529 college savings plan? What a nerd.

Yeah, exactly. How DARE he be smarter than you.

 

[fskimospy]

But he says he really cares about the middle class. Don't you believe him?

The interest rates were temporarily cut in 2008 and they returned to the previously scheduled rate in 2012, as per legislation. This is like saying Obama raised payroll taxes by cutting payroll taxes temporarily and then having them return to their normal levels.

In 2012 a new law was passed that currently has student loan APRs significantly lower than their previous 6.8% level. (I'm not the world's biggest fan of this law, but still)

I'm super shocked he left out those details, haha.

 

[Subyman]

Yeah, exactly. How DARE he be smarter than you.

Savings plans are investment JV.

 

[Pulsar]

Savings plans are investment JV.

Says the guy bragging about his computer specs in his signature. *snicker*

 

[Subyman]

Says the guy bragging about his computer specs in his signature. *snicker*

*Looks around* Yup tech forum.

Jock.

 

[schmuckley]

That article is bullshit. You can pick any state plan you want and you don't need a broker. You are able to choose a low fee plan and one with a good history of return.

I live in NC and picked the Utah plan and it has returned 12% each and every year for the last three years.

So Jhhnn... Who is right? Forbes or Bloomberg. You have a better response than the typical liberal shit you spew?

never does..always same BS :thumbsdown:

 

[Bowfinger]

No, he's saying this:

Currently you pay $100 in taxes. If a piece of legislation passes that has one part that gives you a $10 tax increase and another part that gives you a $20 tax cut, the overall effect of the legislation is a tax cut.

Even that's giving him too much credit. In spite of the misleading innuendo of the Norquist staffer, the great majority of the middle class will see zero increase due to a 529 tax, and the majority of those few who are affected will see only a tiny increase. The major impact will be those in the upper 1%, high income families who actually fall into upper tax brackets and who gain the most benefit from using 529s to avoid taxes.

 

[Bowfinger]

OP fell for Forbes article. LOL.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not really a Forbes article, or even a Forbes editorial. It's an independent op-ed column/blog, written by a Grover Norqusit staffer, but hosted via Forbes. Forbes explicitly disclaims responsibility for it and says it is only the opinion of the author.

 

[glenn1]

No, he's saying this:

Currently you pay $100 in taxes. If a piece of legislation passes that has one part that gives you a $10 tax increase and another part that gives you a $20 tax cut, the overall effect of the legislation is a tax cut.

The cuts and increases aren't necessarily going to the same people though. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if there is very little overlap between those in the middle class who get the benefits vs. get higher taxes.

Also, OP was speaking of one particular feature of the Obama plan which is a tax, so it's appropriate to describe it as a tax increase and it can and should be discussed on its own merits outside the larger tax plan.

 

[Jhhnn]

never does..always same BS :thumbsdown:

Selective comprehension, the result of having absorbed too much right wing propaganda.

 

[shira]

The cuts and increases aren't necessarily going to the same people though. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if there is very little overlap between those in the middle class who get the benefits vs. get higher taxes.

Also, OP was speaking of one particular feature of the Obama plan which is a tax, so it's appropriate to describe it as a tax increase and it can and should be discussed on its own merits outside the larger tax plan.

If this is true, then why do Conservatives consistently tell us that Reagan "cut taxes," yet never, ever dig into the details and pull out the specific "tax increases" that were a part of the overall legislation, and then start threads (or write posts) that talk about how Reagan "increased the income tax on Americans?"

The answer is, Conservatives are just trying to score points.

An HONEST thread title would be "A part of Obama's proposed tax legislation would increase taxes for some middle-class Americans." But we already know that an HONEST discussion is not what some on ATPN are interested in.

 

[fskimospy]

The cuts and increases aren't necessarily going to the same people though. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if there is very little overlap between those in the middle class who get the benefits vs. get higher taxes.

Also, OP was speaking of one particular feature of the Obama plan which is a tax, so it's appropriate to describe it as a tax increase and it can and should be discussed on its own merits outside the larger tax plan.

That doesn't make any sense considering this tax increase wouldn't be implemented on its own. It should be discussed in the context that it would be implemented in, which is as part of a larger plan.