Obama's PR Blitz this weekend

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: JKing106

Almost everyone voted to invade Iraq, this is true. The left and center started dissenting, however, when it became clear that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and the evidence supporting that claim wasn't just wrong, it was invented. We were intentionally lied to.

Thre's a little different history.

One central factor is that the vote for the authorization of the use of force was explicitly said not to be a vote for war by Bush. There was history of Saddam obstructing the UN inspectors, who were not in Iraq any longer. The stated purpose, by Bush, for the bill was ONLY to get the inspectors back in. He said that if the inspectors returned and found no WMD, he would not go to war; that he only needed the bill passed to pressure Saddam to let them back in. He promised before any war to return to Congress for approval IIRC.

You can see in many Senators' comments on the vote that the basis for their yes vote was those assurances.

ANother factor is political, that the Bush White House had the vote scheduled two weeks before Congressional elections, where a 'no' vote would threaten their re-election.

Say what you want about the wrong of letting that influence their vote, but show me the Republicans who would not let it influence theirs. Most of them will.

Bush's handlers did a great job at using the huge threat of the election, and giving them the political cover they needed to say 'it's only to get inspectors in', and it passed.

The fact is, you can easily make a case that that vote was not a 'vote for war'. Bush went on, after the bill did work and get the inspectors returned, to srtat the war ayway - actually ordering the inspectors to get our or be in danger. He did not return to Congress for any additional approval.

So while there are plenty of Democrats who thought Saddam had WMD and wanted the inspectors returned, they did not 'vote for war' nearly like the Republicans.

It was a case of the White House beng able to use the election and public opinion at the time - inflamed over 9/11 - to get the war they wanted.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: RedChief
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Well we are pissed at them for going off on wrong wars wasting lives and treasure but the fact that the dems do actually disagree on some points tells you who is actually thinking in this argument.

Being pissed at the GOP because of Iraq is just an excuse. The left will never not be pissed at the GOP. They just don't have the guts to admit that its because the right opposes that the left wants to fundamentally change this country. There stopped and this pisses them off and as such they need to come up with some excuse to use to act pissed off. Else they would just sound like the whiners they are.

Also, what is the wrong war? Prior to the 2008 election, Iraq was the BAD war and Afghanistan was the GOOD war. Now that the left is in charge and Iraq is truly winding down (with no help from the General Betrayus crowd), Afghanistan is the becomming the bad war. The left has no guts when it comes to war. It hasn't since the 60's.

It isn't just the left that is mad at the GOP right now - its the center. When a party pisses off the center/moderates, they lose elections. Hindsight is 20/20, and the center has finally come to realize that Iraq was a blunder of the right. Sure, some on the left is beginning to see that Afghanistan is somewhere we shouldn't be. The center- not so much.

You talk as if the left has no stomach for war - this is inherently false. Give them a war based on solid principle (Iraq doesn't count) or one that is worth winning (Afghanistan?? - unless we do some SIGNIFICANT nation-building in addition to our current efforts, it may not be) and they most certainly will have the will to fight. This is why we need for Congress to stop shirking their responsibility and actually declare war when it is necessary instead of these half-assed "authorization for use of force" resolutions. If you are going to fight a war, we shouldn't do so if we are not serious about fighting them - which these "resolutions" show.

i call bullshit...

the left and the dems and the center all voted to go to iraq... the stupids all are embarassed that they were just as big a war mongerers as the right and now are flailing back...

all you are doing is making justifications for political posturing...

and now barry is off to fix the middle east to try something else to shift the view away from his other failures...

I call shit-for-brains on your part.

Almost everyone voted to invade Iraq, this is true. The left and center started dissenting, however, when it became clear that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and the evidence supporting that claim wasn't just wrong, it was invented. We were intentionally lied to.

Talking about making justifications. Pot, meet kettle.

Why wouldn't you want the POTUS to try to fix problems with a region we have forces dying in? You'd rather it was a Rambo movie right? Just go in and kill 'em all! Talkin's for pussies! Kill 'em!

You're a fucking idiot. But you're not alone here.

you've always been a asshole, but you sure have turned into an angry asshole lately... is this just a new tactic (since the townhallers were so successful you are mimicking their tactics?) or are you finally cracking up in your despondency?
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: spidey07
He's wearing out his political capital and fast. People just tune his droning on and on out. You can try to pound a message the people don't want to hear over and over again and it just pisses the people off more.

Doesn't stop you and your 40K+ posts. ;)
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: RedChief
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Well we are pissed at them for going off on wrong wars wasting lives and treasure but the fact that the dems do actually disagree on some points tells you who is actually thinking in this argument.

Being pissed at the GOP because of Iraq is just an excuse. The left will never not be pissed at the GOP. They just don't have the guts to admit that its because the right opposes that the left wants to fundamentally change this country. There stopped and this pisses them off and as such they need to come up with some excuse to use to act pissed off. Else they would just sound like the whiners they are.

Also, what is the wrong war? Prior to the 2008 election, Iraq was the BAD war and Afghanistan was the GOOD war. Now that the left is in charge and Iraq is truly winding down (with no help from the General Betrayus crowd), Afghanistan is the becomming the bad war. The left has no guts when it comes to war. It hasn't since the 60's.


It isn't just the left that is mad at the GOP right now - its the center. When a party pisses off the center/moderates, they lose elections. Hindsight is 20/20, and the center has finally come to realize that Iraq was a blunder of the right. Sure, some on the left is beginning to see that Afghanistan is somewhere we shouldn't be. The center- not so much.

You talk as if the left has no stomach for war - this is inherently false. Give them a war based on solid principle (Iraq doesn't count) or one that is worth winning (Afghanistan?? - unless we do some SIGNIFICANT nation-building in addition to our current efforts, it may not be) and they most certainly will have the will to fight. This is why we need for Congress to stop shirking their responsibility and actually declare war when it is necessary instead of these half-assed "authorization for use of force" resolutions. If you are going to fight a war, we shouldn't do so if we are not serious about fighting them - which these "resolutions" show.

i call bullshit...

the left and the dems and the center all voted to go to iraq... the stupids all are embarassed that they were just as big a war mongerers as the right and now are flailing back...

all you are doing is making justifications for political posturing...

and now barry is off to fix the middle east to try something else to shift the view away from his other failures...

The center trusted its leadership - which at the time was heavily Republican. We were lead into a blunder of epic proportions. If you remember the environment at the time, anyone against the war was pretty well branded with a scarlet letter of anti-Americanism. Sure it was political posturing because leaders on both side refused to stand up for what was right. Sorry GOP, you brought us into this mess - and we blame you for it.

At least "barry" is doing something over there. Nice try.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: RedChief
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Well we are pissed at them for going off on wrong wars wasting lives and treasure but the fact that the dems do actually disagree on some points tells you who is actually thinking in this argument.

Being pissed at the GOP because of Iraq is just an excuse. The left will never not be pissed at the GOP. They just don't have the guts to admit that its because the right opposes that the left wants to fundamentally change this country. There stopped and this pisses them off and as such they need to come up with some excuse to use to act pissed off. Else they would just sound like the whiners they are.

Also, what is the wrong war? Prior to the 2008 election, Iraq was the BAD war and Afghanistan was the GOOD war. Now that the left is in charge and Iraq is truly winding down (with no help from the General Betrayus crowd), Afghanistan is the becomming the bad war. The left has no guts when it comes to war. It hasn't since the 60's.


It isn't just the left that is mad at the GOP right now - its the center. When a party pisses off the center/moderates, they lose elections. Hindsight is 20/20, and the center has finally come to realize that Iraq was a blunder of the right. Sure, some on the left is beginning to see that Afghanistan is somewhere we shouldn't be. The center- not so much.

You talk as if the left has no stomach for war - this is inherently false. Give them a war based on solid principle (Iraq doesn't count) or one that is worth winning (Afghanistan?? - unless we do some SIGNIFICANT nation-building in addition to our current efforts, it may not be) and they most certainly will have the will to fight. This is why we need for Congress to stop shirking their responsibility and actually declare war when it is necessary instead of these half-assed "authorization for use of force" resolutions. If you are going to fight a war, we shouldn't do so if we are not serious about fighting them - which these "resolutions" show.

i call bullshit...

the left and the dems and the center all voted to go to iraq... the stupids all are embarassed that they were just as big a war mongerers as the right and now are flailing back...

all you are doing is making justifications for political posturing...

and now barry is off to fix the middle east to try something else to shift the view away from his other failures...

The center trusted its leadership - which at the time was heavily Republican. We were lead into a blunder of epic proportions. If you remember the environment at the time, anyone against the war was pretty well branded with a scarlet letter of anti-Americanism. Sure it was political posturing because leaders on both side refused to stand up for what was right. Sorry GOP, you brought us into this mess - and we blame you for it.

At least "barry" is doing something over there. Nice try.

who knows what the take will be in iraq in 100 years... who knows what the take will be on afganistan in 100 years... all our presidents and ourselves will be tarred for exploiting the region imho... that's why you want to be the writer of the history books, the 'winner' always looks better...

and i have no problem with anything good happening in the middle east... the problem with all this is that it's 'our beliefs' vs 'their beliefs' and dead people are always the end result...

people need to evolve like moonbeam has...
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
will his PR blitz change how i think he is? nope. Likeing his a person and a president are two diffrent things.
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
Originally posted by: spidey07
He's wearing out his political capital and fast. People just tune his droning on and on out. You can try to pound a message the people don't want to hear over and over again and it just pisses the people off more.

+1

He's on CNN or CNBC every damn day about one thing or another. It's like the parents / teacher in the peanuts cartoons. After about 2 months, all I hear now is wah-wah wah wah wahhhhh. Enough already! Put a sock in it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,571
6,712
126
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: RedChief
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Well we are pissed at them for going off on wrong wars wasting lives and treasure but the fact that the dems do actually disagree on some points tells you who is actually thinking in this argument.

Being pissed at the GOP because of Iraq is just an excuse. The left will never not be pissed at the GOP. They just don't have the guts to admit that its because the right opposes that the left wants to fundamentally change this country. There stopped and this pisses them off and as such they need to come up with some excuse to use to act pissed off. Else they would just sound like the whiners they are.

Also, what is the wrong war? Prior to the 2008 election, Iraq was the BAD war and Afghanistan was the GOOD war. Now that the left is in charge and Iraq is truly winding down (with no help from the General Betrayus crowd), Afghanistan is the becomming the bad war. The left has no guts when it comes to war. It hasn't since the 60's.


It isn't just the left that is mad at the GOP right now - its the center. When a party pisses off the center/moderates, they lose elections. Hindsight is 20/20, and the center has finally come to realize that Iraq was a blunder of the right. Sure, some on the left is beginning to see that Afghanistan is somewhere we shouldn't be. The center- not so much.

You talk as if the left has no stomach for war - this is inherently false. Give them a war based on solid principle (Iraq doesn't count) or one that is worth winning (Afghanistan?? - unless we do some SIGNIFICANT nation-building in addition to our current efforts, it may not be) and they most certainly will have the will to fight. This is why we need for Congress to stop shirking their responsibility and actually declare war when it is necessary instead of these half-assed "authorization for use of force" resolutions. If you are going to fight a war, we shouldn't do so if we are not serious about fighting them - which these "resolutions" show.

i call bullshit...

the left and the dems and the center all voted to go to iraq... the stupids all are embarassed that they were just as big a war mongerers as the right and now are flailing back...

all you are doing is making justifications for political posturing...

and now barry is off to fix the middle east to try something else to shift the view away from his other failures...

The center trusted its leadership - which at the time was heavily Republican. We were lead into a blunder of epic proportions. If you remember the environment at the time, anyone against the war was pretty well branded with a scarlet letter of anti-Americanism. Sure it was political posturing because leaders on both side refused to stand up for what was right. Sorry GOP, you brought us into this mess - and we blame you for it.

At least "barry" is doing something over there. Nice try.

who knows what the take will be in iraq in 100 years... who knows what the take will be on afganistan in 100 years... all our presidents and ourselves will be tarred for exploiting the region imho... that's why you want to be the writer of the history books, the 'winner' always looks better...

and i have no problem with anything good happening in the middle east... the problem with all this is that it's 'our beliefs' vs 'their beliefs' and dead people are always the end result...

people need to evolve like moonbeam has...

I am not evolved. Hopefully some of my thinking has been affected by folk who are though. Hopefully. And some evolution, I hope, is tied up with seeing just how unevolved I am. One of the most interesting aspects of conscious evolution, or one of the prerequisites may just be a need for some realization that we are not conscious already. Folk do not look for what they think they already have. Learning may actually be more a process of unlearning everything you believe than it is learning anything new. Some Zen master said "Everybody is enlightened. It would be nice to know it." Seems one could say, if one understood it, that "Nobody knows anything, it would be nice to know it."
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: brencat
Originally posted by: spidey07
He's wearing out his political capital and fast. People just tune his droning on and on out. You can try to pound a message the people don't want to hear over and over again and it just pisses the people off more.

+1

He's on CNN or CNBC every damn day about one thing or another. It's like the parents / teacher in the peanuts cartoons. After about 2 months, all I hear now is wah-wah wah wah wahhhhh. Enough already! Put a sock in it.

thats how im starting to feel. i don't want to see him come on TV and talk. i want to read how he is signing good laws and repearing the reputation of the US etc.

 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
And as I type this, he's on CNBC yet AGAIN

"Breaking News -- Pres. Obama on Economy"

Please stop the madness!!! :|
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,737
54,755
136
Originally posted by: brencat
And as I type this, he's on CNBC yet AGAIN

"Breaking News -- Pres. Obama on Economy"

Please stop the madness!!! :|

He's the president, he's going to be on TV a lot. Why this of all things would bother you is completely beyond me.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Isn't he just following a particular rule of "Rules for Radicals"? I remember one of them was keep pounding your message, even if not well received, because your opponents will eventually grow tired of fighting you.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Isn't he just following a particular rule of "Rules for Radicals"? I remember one of them was keep pounding your message, even if not well received, because your opponents will eventually grow tired of fighting you.

no, that's from 'rules for dave c...'...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,571
6,712
126
Originally posted by: Modelworks
I am so tired of seeing him on tv that I change the channel.

Somewhere around here I have the world's smallest violin.