Obama's new stimulus plan same as the old

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The economy was already a big shit sandwich, long before Obama took office. You guys forget that.

Nobody's forgetting it. What's got some concerned is that the shit sandwich has been super-sized now. I can't run my household by spending money today that I may earn in 2056. What makes the government any different?

No, but you can run a temporary debt on your credit card to get you through hard times or make investments in the future. If I'm unemployed and put college classes and certification tests on my credit card, is that bad? Likewise, if the Government goes into debt to finance infrastructure, education, and health care, which will create jobs now and lower costs in the future, is that bad?

I don't think so.

You don't invest with a credit card and keep in mind this is our government it doesn't invest it wastes money and it's great at it, just look at the national debt.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The economy was already a big shit sandwich, long before Obama took office. You guys forget that.

Nobody's forgetting it. What's got some concerned is that the shit sandwich has been super-sized now. I can't run my household by spending money today that I may earn in 2056. What makes the government any different?

It is different.

How?

Well Obama will waste a lot more money and he will lie about jobs that he says he saved or created.

Oh! Well, I know BHO would never do anything to hurt the USA so lying and wasting money is good for us?!?!?

 

[sandorski]

Can a Family change the Laws of Finance or arbitarily increase its' Income? No. Government Finances are nothing like a Families Finances. It certainly is desirable for a Government to operate similarily to a Family in regards to Finances, but extraordinary Times call for extraordinary Measures.

It seems that many of you still just don't comprehend how badly things have been fucked up.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: sandorski

It seems that many of you still just don't comprehend how badly things have been fucked up.

Yes, when you are massively in the red, the only answer is to spend more!

 

[Docnasty]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: SammyJr
The economy was already a big shit sandwich, long before Obama took office. You guys forget that.

Nobody's forgetting it. What's got some concerned is that the shit sandwich has been super-sized now. I can't run my household by spending money today that I may earn in 2056. What makes the government any different?

No, but you can run a temporary debt on your credit card to get you through hard times or make investments in the future. If I'm unemployed and put college classes and certification tests on my credit card, is that bad? Likewise, if the Government goes into debt to finance infrastructure, education, and health care, which will create jobs now and lower costs in the future, is that bad?

I don't think so.

Yes, that is bad. Your logic is flawed.

Those jobs created by government spending will eventually run out of government funds. And then what will happen? In order to keep those jobs, they'll have to be more government spending. Those people occupying the jobs will become dependent on government spending, and vote accordingly.

Where does government money come from? Taxes and borrowing. Obama has said multiple times that he wants to tax the wealthy to pay for his programs. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: SammyJr
People are impatient. It takes more than a few months to recover from a Bush sized disaster. Obama and the Democrats will be in trouble in November 2010 if most Americans can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, though.

Maybe but when the alternative is even worse (the Republicans) the voter might be willing to bite the bullet.

You're probably right. The Republicans have Palin and Jindal, two young earth creationist morons and a bunch of really old men. Not a single one appeals to moderates.

while I don't believe Jindal is an idiot, your overall point is accurate. The Republicans need to find someone fresh.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CPA
while I don't believe Jindal is an idiot, your overall point is accurate. The Republicans need to find someone fresh.

my money is now on joe straus

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Those jobs created by government spending will eventually run out of government funds. And then what will happen? In order to keep those jobs, they'll have to be more government spending. Those people occupying the jobs will become dependent on government spending, and vote accordingly.

Wrong. Its a stimulus. These are short term projects, research grants, etc. designed to stimulate spending in the short term. The workers on these projects spend their paychecks in the private sector. Demand goes up. The private sector hires more people who spend more money. Its stimulating the business cycle.

What, do you think Government workers or workers who are beneficiaries of Government contracts don't spend money or pay taxes?

 

[Docnasty]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Those jobs created by government spending will eventually run out of government funds. And then what will happen? In order to keep those jobs, they'll have to be more government spending. Those people occupying the jobs will become dependent on government spending, and vote accordingly.

Wrong. Its a stimulus. These are short term projects, research grants, etc. designed to stimulate spending in the short term. The workers on these projects spend their paychecks in the private sector. Demand goes up. The private sector hires more people who spend more money. Its stimulating the business cycle.

What, do you think Government workers or workers who are beneficiaries of Government contracts don't spend money or pay taxes?

No, I -AM- right.

"Its a stimulus" - You say that like its an answer. Its money taken/stolen from wealthy Americans and borrowed from the Chinese. Companies can't afford to hire people when they're being taxed more. I guess you missed the part where Microsoft's CEO went to Washington and told Congress that if taxes went up anymore a lot of their jobs would go overseas? I guess you missed the last 50 years of American jobs getting shipped overseas because of too much taxing and too many iditoic government regulations.

"Research grants" - Have nothing to do with private business. It goes to Universities or some alphabet soup government agency you've never heard of. Companies fund their own research with profits when it isn't being stolen by government. They use their R&D to create new products and services that meet the needs of their customers. Its listed on their yearly cash flow statements.

"Infrastructure investment" - Hires construction workers and only TEMPORARILY stimulates that industry. Do you deny that those jobs will go away when the government stops spending money it? .

The small increase in demand for consumer goods will be short-lived. The projects will run out of government funds (Stimulus money stolen from other Americans or borrowed) and workers will lose their jobs, and companies will see demand go back down. So wheres the long term wealth creation? It can't exist when the government is preventing people from producing (i.e. too many regulations and laws) and taking peoples hard-earned wages and giving it to people not willing to work or who can't work because of their own fault (over taxation, welfare).

"which will create jobs now and lower costs in the future" - We've already established that job creation by the government is essentially stealing from other Americans/digging a hole to fund temporarily jobs that will go away after funds run out. Alright, so tell me about lowered costs in the future? I can't think of anything the government has ever touched that has led to lower costs.

If you want to create real long term wealth you just need to shrink government. I mean, in the past, how did our country get along without things like Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and a whole other slew of entitlement bullshit? Oh wait, we did fine without it. In fact, we did better than fine. You do read history, right? America became the wealthiest nation in the world because the people were free to produce and got to keep their earnings. There is a word for people who work 4-6 months out of the year to pay taxes to the government, and that word is: Slave.

 

[boomerang]

Docnasty is my new hero! Well done sir! :beer:

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Docnasty is my new hero! Well done sir! :beer:

I was about to say the same thing. He spells it out like it is.

 

[Compton]

Thank you, Docnasty. Your post made my day. :thumbsup:

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Docnasty
how did our country get along without things like Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and a whole other slew of entitlement bullshit? Oh wait, we did fine without it. In fact, we did better than fine. You do read history, right? America became the wealthiest nation in the world because the people were free to produce and got to keep their earnings. There is a word for people who work 4-6 months out of the year to pay taxes to the government, and that word is: Slave.

LOL. So everybody was eating caviar and living in a mansion and some asshole ruined it all by creating social programs?

 

[Andrew1990]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Docnasty
how did our country get along without things like Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and a whole other slew of entitlement bullshit? Oh wait, we did fine without it. In fact, we did better than fine. You do read history, right? America became the wealthiest nation in the world because the people were free to produce and got to keep their earnings. There is a word for people who work 4-6 months out of the year to pay taxes to the government, and that word is: Slave.

LOL. So everybody was eating caviar and living in a mansion and some asshole ruined it all by creating social programs?

Well, from my understanding of history, it was survival of the fittest. Those who worked moved up the ladder and those who didn't work got left behind.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Those jobs created by government spending will eventually run out of government funds. And then what will happen? In order to keep those jobs, they'll have to be more government spending. Those people occupying the jobs will become dependent on government spending, and vote accordingly.

Wrong. Its a stimulus. These are short term projects, research grants, etc. designed to stimulate spending in the short term. The workers on these projects spend their paychecks in the private sector. Demand goes up. The private sector hires more people who spend more money. Its stimulating the business cycle.

What, do you think Government workers or workers who are beneficiaries of Government contracts don't spend money or pay taxes?

No, I -AM- right.

"Its a stimulus" - You say that like its an answer. Its money taken/stolen from wealthy Americans and borrowed from the Chinese. Companies can't afford to hire people when they're being taxed more. I guess you missed the part where Microsoft's CEO went to Washington and told Congress that if taxes went up anymore a lot of their jobs would go overseas? I guess you missed the last 50 years of American jobs getting shipped overseas because of too much taxing and too many iditoic government regulations.

"Research grants" - Have nothing to do with private business. It goes to Universities or some alphabet soup government agency you've never heard of. Companies fund their own research with profits when it isn't being stolen by government. They use their R&D to create new products and services that meet the needs of their customers. Its listed on their yearly cash flow statements.

"Infrastructure investment" - Hires construction workers and only TEMPORARILY stimulates that industry. Do you deny that those jobs will go away when the government stops spending money it? .

The small increase in demand for consumer goods will be short-lived. The projects will run out of government funds (Stimulus money stolen from other Americans or borrowed) and workers will lose their jobs, and companies will see demand go back down. So wheres the long term wealth creation? It can't exist when the government is preventing people from producing (i.e. too many regulations and laws) and taking peoples hard-earned wages and giving it to people not willing to work or who can't work because of their own fault (over taxation, welfare).

"which will create jobs now and lower costs in the future" - We've already established that job creation by the government is essentially stealing from other Americans/digging a hole to fund temporarily jobs that will go away after funds run out. Alright, so tell me about lowered costs in the future? I can't think of anything the government has ever touched that has led to lower costs.

If you want to create real long term wealth you just need to shrink government. I mean, in the past, how did our country get along without things like Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and a whole other slew of entitlement bullshit? Oh wait, we did fine without it. In fact, we did better than fine. You do read history, right? America became the wealthiest nation in the world because the people were free to produce and got to keep their earnings. There is a word for people who work 4-6 months out of the year to pay taxes to the government, and that word is: Slave.

Complete failure. You really have no idea what Life was like before those Programs.

 

[Docnasty]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Those jobs created by government spending will eventually run out of government funds. And then what will happen? In order to keep those jobs, they'll have to be more government spending. Those people occupying the jobs will become dependent on government spending, and vote accordingly.

Wrong. Its a stimulus. These are short term projects, research grants, etc. designed to stimulate spending in the short term. The workers on these projects spend their paychecks in the private sector. Demand goes up. The private sector hires more people who spend more money. Its stimulating the business cycle.

What, do you think Government workers or workers who are beneficiaries of Government contracts don't spend money or pay taxes?

No, I -AM- right.

"Its a stimulus" - You say that like its an answer. Its money taken/stolen from wealthy Americans and borrowed from the Chinese. Companies can't afford to hire people when they're being taxed more. I guess you missed the part where Microsoft's CEO went to Washington and told Congress that if taxes went up anymore a lot of their jobs would go overseas? I guess you missed the last 50 years of American jobs getting shipped overseas because of too much taxing and too many iditoic government regulations.

"Research grants" - Have nothing to do with private business. It goes to Universities or some alphabet soup government agency you've never heard of. Companies fund their own research with profits when it isn't being stolen by government. They use their R&D to create new products and services that meet the needs of their customers. Its listed on their yearly cash flow statements.

"Infrastructure investment" - Hires construction workers and only TEMPORARILY stimulates that industry. Do you deny that those jobs will go away when the government stops spending money it? .

The small increase in demand for consumer goods will be short-lived. The projects will run out of government funds (Stimulus money stolen from other Americans or borrowed) and workers will lose their jobs, and companies will see demand go back down. So wheres the long term wealth creation? It can't exist when the government is preventing people from producing (i.e. too many regulations and laws) and taking peoples hard-earned wages and giving it to people not willing to work or who can't work because of their own fault (over taxation, welfare).

"which will create jobs now and lower costs in the future" - We've already established that job creation by the government is essentially stealing from other Americans/digging a hole to fund temporarily jobs that will go away after funds run out. Alright, so tell me about lowered costs in the future? I can't think of anything the government has ever touched that has led to lower costs.

If you want to create real long term wealth you just need to shrink government. I mean, in the past, how did our country get along without things like Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and a whole other slew of entitlement bullshit? Oh wait, we did fine without it. In fact, we did better than fine. You do read history, right? America became the wealthiest nation in the world because the people were free to produce and got to keep their earnings. There is a word for people who work 4-6 months out of the year to pay taxes to the government, and that word is: Slave.

Complete failure. You really have no idea what Life was like before those Programs.

Oh, and you do? Because you've studied American history? You don't even live in America! Get the !@%& out of here .

 

[Starbuck1975]

Well, from my understanding of history, it was survival of the fittest. Those who worked moved up the ladder and those who didn't work got left behind.

That statement still holds true today even with all of the government social programs out there.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty



No, I -AM- right.

"Its a stimulus" - You say that like its an answer. Its money taken/stolen from wealthy Americans and borrowed from the Chinese. Companies can't afford to hire people when they're being taxed more. I guess you missed the part where Microsoft's CEO went to Washington and told Congress that if taxes went up anymore a lot of their jobs would go overseas? I guess you missed the last 50 years of American jobs getting shipped overseas because of too much taxing and too many iditoic government regulations.

"Research grants" - Have nothing to do with private business. It goes to Universities or some alphabet soup government agency you've never heard of. Companies fund their own research with profits when it isn't being stolen by government. They use their R&D to create new products and services that meet the needs of their customers. Its listed on their yearly cash flow statements.

"Infrastructure investment" - Hires construction workers and only TEMPORARILY stimulates that industry. Do you deny that those jobs will go away when the government stops spending money it? .

The small increase in demand for consumer goods will be short-lived. The projects will run out of government funds (Stimulus money stolen from other Americans or borrowed) and workers will lose their jobs, and companies will see demand go back down. So wheres the long term wealth creation? It can't exist when the government is preventing people from producing (i.e. too many regulations and laws) and taking peoples hard-earned wages and giving it to people not willing to work or who can't work because of their own fault (over taxation, welfare).

"which will create jobs now and lower costs in the future" - We've already established that job creation by the government is essentially stealing from other Americans/digging a hole to fund temporarily jobs that will go away after funds run out. Alright, so tell me about lowered costs in the future? I can't think of anything the government has ever touched that has led to lower costs.

If you want to create real long term wealth you just need to shrink government. I mean, in the past, how did our country get along without things like Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and a whole other slew of entitlement bullshit? Oh wait, we did fine without it. In fact, we did better than fine. You do read history, right? America became the wealthiest nation in the world because the people were free to produce and got to keep their earnings. There is a word for people who work 4-6 months out of the year to pay taxes to the government, and that word is: Slave.

Complete failure. You really have no idea what Life was like before those Programs.

Oh, and you do? Because you've studied American history? You don't even live in America! Get the !@%& out of here .

Clueless I see. How 'bout you get the fuck out?

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Compton
Thank you, Docnasty. Your post made my day. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: boomerang
Docnasty is my new hero! Well done sir! :beer:

I was about to say the same thing. He spells it out like it is.

Little amuses the simple.

 

[Goldbug]

Anyone have any idea whether any of these new stimulus thingies include a provision to tap retiremenet accounts without paying the 10% early withdrawal penalty. This was supposed to be part of the original stimulus plan but those SOB's cut it out at the last minute.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Andrew1990

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Docnasty
how did our country get along without things like Social Security, Federal Income Tax, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and a whole other slew of entitlement bullshit? Oh wait, we did fine without it. In fact, we did better than fine. You do read history, right? America became the wealthiest nation in the world because the people were free to produce and got to keep their earnings. There is a word for people who work 4-6 months out of the year to pay taxes to the government, and that word is: Slave.

LOL. So everybody was eating caviar and living in a mansion and some asshole ruined it all by creating social programs?

Well, from my understanding of history, it was survival of the fittest. Those who worked moved up the ladder and those who didn't work got left behind.

Well, if that's your idea of "better than fine", then I guess those times were paradise. Someone ought to invent a time machine so the no government types can go back and live back then.