Obama's job failure in visible terms

[Jhhnn]

Guess you haven't been paying attention to what the EPA is up to and Obama's attack on coal. Business know their costs are going to "necessarily skyrocket" under Obama so because of him, they are simply waiting his disastrous policies out. Their big question is "maybe I can afford to hire somebody this year, but next year I can't".

Lameness. It's not like they're shy about laying people off...

 

[soulcougher73]

Social and economic justice.

Oh the horror. That sounds terribad.

 

[Naeeldar]

Oh the horror. That sounds terribad.

It is when social and economic justice = take more money for those who work hard.

And I realize that's a generalization but there is a lot of truth to it regardless. Especially when you consider that slightly over half of all Americans don't pay income tax...

 

[trenchfoot]

Big business is going to strangle our present economy jobs-wise until another deregulating trickle-downer takes office or until they decide they can't wait any longer.

When Bush&Cheney Corp. turned big business buck wild loose with that "Hear no Corporate Evil, See no Corporate Evil, Speak no Corporate Evil" policy of theirs, simultaneously cut taxes on the rich and started two wars on the national credit card it was plain to see where all our tax dollars were headed.

And with the same addiction that crack addicts have, big business can't wait to get another overdose shot like that again.

They want Obama out of office ASAP. Sure, Obama is giving big business a lot more leeway than he should, being a "liberal" and all, yet he has to placate his Dem base, which keeps him on a leash that prevents the rich from turning him into a complete DINO.

In the meantime, the rich are getting richer feeding off of the middle class and the poor, and the only thing the rich are suffering from is that addiction that Bush and Cheney gave them. Other than that, they're still playing the "I'm richer than you" game with each other, at the expense of the rest of the nation, as usual.

 

[ShawnD1]

And I realize that's a generalization but there is a lot of truth to it regardless. Especially when you consider that slightly over half of all Americans don't pay income tax...

Reality of the situation:
20% of Americans are unemployed
30% of Americans work at McDonalds or equivalent

There's your 50%

 

[Naeeldar]

Reality of the situation:
20% of Americans are unemployed
30% of Americans work at McDonalds or equivalent

There's your 50%

The 50% of income tax has been true for years now, before the bubble burst. 20% are not unemployed and the 30% is obviously just a number you pulled from no where.

That said does it really matter what they are doing? Half the populace can not support the other half. And creating a structure where it does will just mean more end up being supported by others... It's not a good situation to be heading into.

 

[theeedude]

You forgot to add that Obama farts unicorns and Republicans eat babies. Without that, your post just looks silly.

Truth hurts, but if you want to blather about unicorns and babies to ease the pain, it's fine by me.

 

[theeedude]

We don't have the money for govt jobs, it's a waste. OR would you prefer we be like Greece where 2/3 of the country was govt employees while 1/3 worked to support them? look how that worked out...

Govt jobs are NOT the answer to our issues right now.

How's austerity working out for Europe? Booming economy?
Do you want Greek solution to America's problems?
Govt jobs are the answer in a recession. Slack in labor market is a great reason to do infrastructure projects and other work that we need the government to do.

 

[werepossum]

He then responded with a James Inhofe op-ed. I didn't know what to do other than put my head in my hands.

<sigh> Here are some more links both pro and con. Perhaps these will convince you that this is real even if MSNBC isn't covering it.

http://www.mswmanagement.com/the-latest/epa-tailoring-rule.aspx

http://www.businessbrief.com/anti-epa-forces-get-a-surprise-many-firms-support-ghg-cuts/

http://www.texaspolicy.com/pdf/2011-03-24-testimony-USHouse-EPA-khwfinal.pdf

http://www.wastebusinessjournal.com/news/wbj20100928D.htm

http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm...mplate=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=15364

http://www.energynow.com/energypanel/2011/03/14/mar-14-energy-update-energy-policy-gone-wild

http://mediamatters.org/research/201106070010

http://www.ohioenvironmentallawblog.com/tags/cap-and-trade/

I realize that you will reflexively discount anything said by Senator Inhofe, but surely you can at least acknowledge that this is happening - maybe even acknowledge that to a lot of companies, this represents a threat to their profitability and perhaps even to their viability. When one has the responsibility for a company, one also has responsibility for the employees' futures and for the owners or shareholders' interests. In that situation, most people cannot blithely assume that just because it's being done by their favored party and/or by government, therefore it cannot possibly be bad for them.

 

[ShawnD1]

The 50% of income tax has been true for years now, before the bubble burst. 20% are not unemployed and the 30% is obviously just a number you pulled from no where.

Actually that 30% is very close to accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

According to the US Census Bureau, men tended to have higher income than women while Asians and Whites earned more than African Americans and Hispanics. The overall median personal income for all individuals over the age of 18 was $25,149[4] ($32,140 for those age 25 or above) in the year 2005.[5] The overall median income for all 155 million persons over the age of 15 who worked with earnings in 2005 was $28,567.[6]

25k is about $12/hour. Where I live, night shift at McDonalds pays $11/h.

Of those individuals with income who were older than 25 years of age, over 42% had incomes below $25,000

So more than 1/3 of the US population over the age of 25 works at McDonalds. That's just lovely.

 

[her209]

It is when social and economic justice = take more money for those who work hard.

And I realize that's a generalization but there is a lot of truth to it regardless. Especially when you consider that slightly over half of all Americans don't pay income tax...

There's that claim again. How is this true when the 2008 tax data released by the IRS stated that the bottom 50% of positive AGI filers paid something like 2.4% of the income taxes collected in 2008? Even if you assume that 99% of the bottom 50% paid no income taxes and possibly got money back, that gets you to 49.5%. In other words, its a mathematical impossibility.

 

[Naeeldar]

Actually that 30% is very close to accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

25k is about $12/hour. Where I live, night shift at McDonalds pays $11/h.



So more than 1/3 of the US population over the age of 25 works at McDonalds. That's just lovely.

And that's somehow everybody else problem how? There's better society but people seem to realize there is only so much you can do.

I made $35k in 2004 at 19 with no degree. I'm sorry but you can't do everything for some people. And the simple truth is in many ways we are becoming lazy as a society... not all people but far to many ( at all income levels ).

 

[Naeeldar]

There's that claim again. How is this true when the 2008 tax data released by the IRS stated that the bottom 50% of positive AGI filers paid something like 2.4% of the income taxes collected in 2008? Even if you assume that 99% of the bottom 50% paid no income taxes and possibly got money back, that gets you to 49.5%. In other words, its a mathematical impossibility.

Numbers were being discussed today and it came in at 51%. 1% in the numbers we are talking about is about a normal error range. I don't know the exact report you are talking about but did that take into account deductions returns etc..?

Either way 49.5% is insanely high. I paid right around 22,000 last year. I don't mind it but I sure as hell will mind more being taken away.

 

[ShawnD1]

And that's somehow everybody else problem how? There's better society but people seem to realize there is only so much you can do.

I made $35k in 2004 at 19 with no degree. I'm sorry but you can't do everything for some people. And the simple truth is in many ways we are becoming lazy as a society... not all people but far to many ( at all income levels ).

Yes and where are these magical fairy jobs you speak of? McDonalds had some national job fair thing a few weeks ago and they had over a million applicants. A million people wanted to work for McDonalds. There are no other jobs available. McDonalds is all the US has left after Clinton and Bush sent every job to China.

 

[her209]

Numbers were being discussed today and it came in at 51&#37;. 1% in the numbers we are talking about is about a normal error range. I don't know the exact report you are talking about but did that take into account deductions returns etc..?

Either way 49.5% is insanely high. I paid right around 22,000 last year. I don't mind it but I sure as hell will mind more being taken away.

Sorry my number was off a bit. The number is 2.7%, not 2.4%.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

 

[Jhhnn]

Very well said. Rather than focusing on creating jobs, D.C. needs to be emphasizing stability. Right now businesses are terrified to invest and hire, even those who are making serious profits, because they are unsure what is coming down the pike in terms of Obamacare, Cap & Trade, taxes, and environmental regulations. Better to take sure profits and bank them than to risk time and capital on ventures you may soon not be able to afford.

Instead, they're making capital investment & hiring in economies where the rules can change at the whim of the govt, like China, and where there's tremendous turmoil, like Mexico.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/world/americas/11matamoros.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

If the Terrarist! threat!, uncertainty of 2 wars and an obviously unsustainable credit bubble didn't create caution during the bush years, what makes the uncertainties of today any different?

Nothing, really. It's all excuse making to cover the Job Creator! meme... and the ongoing top down looting of the economy...

The faithful devotion & continuing belief among Righties is truly touching, in a "bad touching" sort of way...

 

[werepossum]

Yes and where are these magical fairy jobs you speak of? McDonalds had some national job fair thing a few weeks ago and they had over a million applicants. A million people wanted to work for McDonalds. There are no other jobs available. McDonalds is all the US has left after Clinton and Bush sent every job to China.

Clinton and Bush and Bush and Reagan and Carter and Nixon, the clod that started it - and now Obama. There are no clean hands.

 

[blackangst1]

Big business is going to strangle our present economy jobs-wise until another deregulating trickle-downer takes office or until they decide they can't wait any longer.

When Bush&Cheney Corp. turned big business buck wild loose with that "Hear no Corporate Evil, See no Corporate Evil, Speak no Corporate Evil" policy of theirs, simultaneously cut taxes on the rich and started two wars on the national credit card it was plain to see where all our tax dollars were headed.

And with the same addiction that crack addicts have, big business can't wait to get another overdose shot like that again.

They want Obama out of office ASAP. Sure, Obama is giving big business a lot more leeway than he should, being a "liberal" and all, yet he has to placate his Dem base, which keeps him on a leash that prevents the rich from turning him into a complete DINO.

In the meantime, the rich are getting richer feeding off of the middle class and the poor, and the only thing the rich are suffering from is that addiction that Bush and Cheney gave them. Other than that, they're still playing the "I'm richer than you" game with each other, at the expense of the rest of the nation, as usual.

Youre right. I mean, look at all those people the Fortune 500 employs! And look at the millions of dollars these companies gove to local charities! Its a fuckin shame I tell you!

We should limit company size to 50 to prevent such tragedies.

 

[blackangst1]

Instead, they're making capital investment & hiring in economies where the rules can change at the whim of the govt, like China, and where there's tremendous turmoil, like Mexico.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/world/americas/11matamoros.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

If the Terrarist! threat!, uncertainty of 2 wars and an obviously unsustainable credit bubble didn't create caution during the bush years, what makes the uncertainties of today any different?

Nothing, really. It's all excuse making to cover the Job Creator! meme... and the ongoing top down looting of the economy...

The faithful devotion & continuing belief among Righties is truly touching, in a "bad touching" sort of way...

But its first date this girl is letting me touch her feel good kind of way for the loyal looney left who support Obama doing it on a grander scale, right?

 

[werepossum]

Instead, they're making capital investment & hiring in economies where the rules can change at the whim of the govt, like China, and where there's tremendous turmoil, like Mexico.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/world/americas/11matamoros.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

If the Terrarist! threat!, uncertainty of 2 wars and an obviously unsustainable credit bubble didn't create caution during the bush years, what makes the uncertainties of today any different?

Nothing, really. It's all excuse making to cover the Job Creator! meme... and the ongoing top down looting of the economy...

The faithful devotion & continuing belief among Righties is truly touching, in a "bad touching" sort of way...

You're ignoring the fact that American rules also change at the whim of government. While China might be worse, China also offers a significantly bigger ROI. If we want to keep our expensive wages, benefits, and regulations - and we do - we have to be much more stable than China. Not as stable, not nearly as stable, not a bit more stable, but a LOT more stable.

Otherwise you can keep on whining about evil corporations and encouraging government to loot them for you until there is no private sector base capable of supporting government. At that point, we're going to look a lot like Greece. But hey, at least you'll have punished those evil richers. Be sure to keep back some good rocks so you can punish the government when it can no longer cut you a check with any value to it.

 

[ShawnD1]

Clinton and Bush and Bush and Reagan and Carter and Nixon, the clod that started it - and now Obama. There are no clean hands.

Trade with China began in the 1970s, but Clinton signed the free trade agreement with China. As long as some taxes were in place, there was always a reason to build stuff in the US. Now that there are basically no import taxes, there's no reason to keep anything in the US. Even Ford is using Chinese transmissions in their cars. This is madness.

 

[manimal]

Austerity will worsen aggregate demand. Can anyone refute that?

 

[werepossum]

Trade with China began in the 1970s, but Clinton signed the free trade agreement with China. As long as some taxes were in place, there was always a reason to build stuff in the US. Now that there are basically no import taxes, there's no reason to keep anything in the US. Even Ford is using Chinese transmissions in their cars. This is madness.

I agree that Clinton was the worse, destroying practically all trade restrictions with the CHiComs, but if the Republican Congress hadn't passed MFN (China) then Clinton couldn't have signed it. There are no clean hands here. Reagan, whom I love with a serious man crush that's only slightly creepy since he's dead, was worse than Carter, whom I can't stand. But they are all part of the problem.

 

[werepossum]

Austerity will worsen aggregate demand. Can anyone refute that?

Short term, you're probably right. But there is no future in government squeezing the populace so that government can buy the things the populace aren't buying. That's a death spiral capable of no more than a slow decline at best.

 

[Fern]

There's that claim again. How is this true when the 2008 tax data released by the IRS stated that the bottom 50% of positive AGI filers paid something like 2.4% of the income taxes collected in 2008? Even if you assume that 99% of the bottom 50% paid no income taxes and possibly got money back, that gets you to 49.5%. In other words, its a mathematical impossibility.

I don't believe it's a mathematical impossibility. Re-read what you posted. Your number include on people with positive AGI. How many people are in the group that had negative AGI?

I.e., it is mathematically possible that the amount is greater than 50% when including the group with negative AGI.

Fern