Obama's big payoff from making Limbaugh the defacto leader of the republican party: Civil war

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Atreus21


Disagree. Republicans need to return to their core values, which resonates with most people.

on an issue by issue basis, conservative goals are almost all losers if you want to make this a popularity contest.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Do you have a newsletter that I can subscribe to?

Yeah, here you go:

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You managed to generalize a whole region in this country, and make fun of gays in the same post! What a good little Democrat you are!

fake outrage is the best outrage

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: RichardE
What the right needs is a return to the embrace of conservative intellectualism and to quit trying to build a party around anti-intelletualism. The Conservative movement was founded on great thinkers and intellects, its folly to try and make it *better* by rejecting that.

My opinion is that pop-culture conformity is often mistaken for intellectualism. An intellectual is someone who makes intelligent analysis.

To my mind, conservatives are generally being the most intellectual of any group. To my mind, it is the liberals who stand staunchly against it.

Yes, in your mind. The conservative base is about 30something % comprised of religious die-hards who want the US to support Israel because the Jews have to be there in order for the apocalypse to play out correctly. Of course there is a knot of intelligent small govt conservatives who don't call for the assassination of abortion doctors or preach equal time for the quakery of ID in schools, but 2004 was a state by state referendum on gay marriage for chrissake, and that's what drove the huge turnout that got Bush re-elected.

There are plenty of folks on either side of the aisle who love making a spectacle instead of talking about the issues in a coherent way, but I'm not sure how you can possibly claim that conservatives have the upper hand on intellectualism when statistics show that the more educated people across the board more often hold liberal views, and that "anti-intellectualism" is a phrase even those on the right use to describe the nutty right.

I'm not sure how you can celebrate left intellectualism when it has changed so drastically over the last half century, going from a group that use to strive for a different society, and now tolerate a modified one, use to champion how exploitive the market was but now declared it humane and rational. It use to hate mass culture and now calls it rebellious, the left now embraces pluralism as multiculturalism, even though it once rejected pluralism entirely.

Both sides have lost there intellectual base sadly, what we lack in modern politics is an idea, or ideologies to strive for on either side of the aisle. Without that, neither side can produce any true intellectuals to actually guide the country and instead we scramble from crisis to crisis never truly progressing socially or culturally unless forced.

so your saying that the evolution of ideas is anti-intellectual? I think you are confusing 'intellectual' with ideologue. In which case, then yes i agree with you, liberalism has become less ideological.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Do you have a newsletter that I can subscribe to?

Yeah, here you go:

Send $20 to:
The GOP Are Dumb Fucking Morons
PO Box 666
Huntsville, AL 70233

Send in a picture of yourself sporting a goatee in your gay jacked up truck and get 50% off the normal newsletter cover price!

You managed to generalize a whole region in this country, and make fun of gays in the same post! What a good little Democrat you are!

fake outrage is the best outrage

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: RichardE
What the right needs is a return to the embrace of conservative intellectualism and to quit trying to build a party around anti-intelletualism. The Conservative movement was founded on great thinkers and intellects, its folly to try and make it *better* by rejecting that.

My opinion is that pop-culture conformity is often mistaken for intellectualism. An intellectual is someone who makes intelligent analysis.

To my mind, conservatives are generally being the most intellectual of any group. To my mind, it is the liberals who stand staunchly against it.

Yes, in your mind. The conservative base is about 30something % comprised of religious die-hards who want the US to support Israel because the Jews have to be there in order for the apocalypse to play out correctly. Of course there is a knot of intelligent small govt conservatives who don't call for the assassination of abortion doctors or preach equal time for the quakery of ID in schools, but 2004 was a state by state referendum on gay marriage for chrissake, and that's what drove the huge turnout that got Bush re-elected.

There are plenty of folks on either side of the aisle who love making a spectacle instead of talking about the issues in a coherent way, but I'm not sure how you can possibly claim that conservatives have the upper hand on intellectualism when statistics show that the more educated people across the board more often hold liberal views, and that "anti-intellectualism" is a phrase even those on the right use to describe the nutty right.

I'm not sure how you can celebrate left intellectualism when it has changed so drastically over the last half century, going from a group that use to strive for a different society, and now tolerate a modified one, use to champion how exploitive the market was but now declared it humane and rational. It use to hate mass culture and now calls it rebellious, the left now embraces pluralism as multiculturalism, even though it once rejected pluralism entirely.

Both sides have lost there intellectual base sadly, what we lack in modern politics is an idea, or ideologies to strive for on either side of the aisle. Without that, neither side can produce any true intellectuals to actually guide the country and instead we scramble from crisis to crisis never truly progressing socially or culturally unless forced.

so your saying that the evolution of ideas is anti-intellectual? I think you are confusing 'intellectual' with ideologue. In which case, then yes i agree with you, liberalism has become less ideological.

No, actually you missed the point entirely. The evolution of ideas that build into something better is the pinnacle of intellectualism. What you are seeing is not an evolution of ideas but rather a decent into a comfort zone of status quo that will stagnate change entirely.

To put it another way, the left is slowly becoming conservatist (by the historical definition of the word and meaning politically) and the right is descending into fanaticism.

Re-read my post, you will see what I mean. An evolution of ideas would mean either side, or both sides would have an "idea" of where the country should be headed. At the moment neither side does and rather, they switch there ideologies as fast as the wind blows at times (relatively, 25-30 years is a short span for ideologies that usually last 2-3 generations). What you are seeing is not the changing of ideas, but the death of ideas as apathy grows because the two parties offer nothing but the old guard. Obama had potential but will be handcuffed by the economic crisis in the short term, though I hope, even as a right wing, I sincerely hope he is one of the most succesfull presidents we have ever known at the end of his 8 years, because if he is a new age of intellectualism, and a new age of politics will be born. If not, we will have another 20-30 years of the same shit.


To define this even more, so you truly understand my meaning. Can you name anything truly that goes against the "grain" in American Life? Something that the left is championing that would be radical change? Not just talking about, I'm not talking about shit like the Fairness doctrine that is used to scare up some people every decade, but truly something that would be a real liberal ideal?

No, you can't. The Left has nothing but the tried and true test of its ideas, in essence it is rejecting any major changes so is settling on an ideologies of conservatism. It is like it was going in a direction and stopped and put the new center there. Than went a little right of it to appeal to moderate voters. This is what I was saying, both sides no longer have any vision of where they want to take the country, instead they fight over the position of the center.

 

[Jaskalas]

There had damn well better be civil war among the Republican Party. If they nominate another Bush or McCain archetype of political "moderate" (read: Big Government) character then I will continue to oppose them.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
It's sooooo funny how the righties are continuing to behave exactly the way that got them into the morass they and their party now find themselves in.

Bush couldn't admit what a failure he was/is, he couldn't admit that he screwed up for eight whole years, and his supporters cannot admit that they screwed up by voting for him twice.

They refuse to admit that it was their Party and their Leaders and their support of same that is the cause of this huge debacle that we are now faced with.

They refuse to admit that piling riches onto the already abundantly rich and have the common folks wait around for scraps to fall off the table that these obscenely overstuffed billionaire gluttons were frenzy-feasting on was/is and will always be completely wrong.

They refuse to recognize that the backbone of our Nation is the common folk, and not the fat cats that own the GOP lock stock and barrel, and that without the common folk prospering along with the rich our Nation will, and has, floundered.

Their reluctance to own up and admit that their eight year orgy with a flawed and failed Ideology, whose main purpose was to create an exclusive government welfare program by, for and of the ultra-rich is what's keeping them from moving on and focusing on the idea that the good of all must come before the sole benefit of the chosen few.

The electorate wised up and booted the GOP pillagers out of office and into the shed for a well-deserved strapping. Yet, their refusal to admit responsibility, to be held accountable and to shake/hold hands with the "peasants" so we can all move on together is still not forthcoming.

The repubs consumed everything they could get their hands on and then when they had everything they could hope for, they found the only things left to consume were themselves and went right on ahead and did it out of suicidal ideological reflex.

Creditability. Hard to attain, so easy to squander, so much harder to get back. Without the creditablilty that Bush and Cheney squandered in their Party's name through their sole agenda of making the rich richer, the GOP will find it extremely difficult to be trusted with minding the welfare of our Nation again, if ever.

Like a breath of fresh air.
:thumbsup:

As long as you refer to the other party as "the enemy", you are not acting as an American.

 

[theeedude]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19596.html

Looks like Rush is a gift that keeps on giving.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: senseamp
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19596.html

Looks like Rush is a gift that keeps on giving.

Nice strategy in backing Repub's into a corner with that. 11% rating (40 and under people) for Limbaugh isn't surprising, and the Dem's are taking full advantage of this polling data.