Obama's 95% Illusion

[Insomniator]

Each one of those 40% also have a vote just as powerful as the people that ARE paying income tax. There were some polls on the news a while back where like 80% of people that didn't pay any goddamn taxes support a tax increase. Give me a fucking break.

Obama wants the rich to pay for more handouts than they already do. That does not work.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Viditor
I will say that most of the world just doesn't understand what Americans are complaining about with taxes...
After deductions, US citizens pay some of the lowest taxes in the world...by far!
For example, here in Australia, if you make over $180k you will pay 46.5% with very little in the way of deductions.
Having moved here, my taxes have almost doubled what they were in the US!

that was your choice... do you believe that you're getting back what you're paying for? Did your quality of life also double? (infrastructure, protection from criminals, healthcare, etc)

Higher taxes can only lead to larger government, and that is something I oppose completely. Unfortunately, both major parties in America seem to thrive on it, so I bet I will see our own tax rates double in my lifetime...

sad that.

You misunderstand...I'm not complaining, but I don't understand why so many Americans are.
I would say that my quality of life did indeed double...
I no longer lock my doors, I don't worry about affording medical bills, and even though I'm in a major metropolis (Sydney), they don't shoot people here...

 

[Moonbeam]

Why do you conservatives have opinions. You voted for Bush and ruined our country. Who gives a shit what you think. You're idiots. STFU. You've destroyed our economy and you yap yap yap about liberals. Brain dead is what you are. You have shit all over your face and you prance into threads to spout your ridiculous opinions. How much worse do you what to f everything up. You have absolutely no credibility at all and you're still stuffed full of garbage. Go vomit somewhere in a bag and smack it on your heads. Please have a little humility. Have some shame. You dunces couldn't be more upside down.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Viditor
I will say that most of the world just doesn't understand what Americans are complaining about with taxes...
After deductions, US citizens pay some of the lowest taxes in the world...by far!
For example, here in Australia, if you make over $180k you will pay 46.5% with very little in the way of deductions.
Having moved here, my taxes have almost doubled what they were in the US!

that was your choice... do you believe that you're getting back what you're paying for? Did your quality of life also double? (infrastructure, protection from criminals, healthcare, etc)

Higher taxes can only lead to larger government, and that is something I oppose completely. Unfortunately, both major parties in America seem to thrive on it, so I bet I will see our own tax rates double in my lifetime...

sad that.

You misunderstand...I'm not complaining, but I don't understand why so many Americans are.
I would say that my quality of life did indeed double...
I no longer lock my doors, I don't worry about affording medical bills, and even though I'm in a major metropolis (Sydney), they don't shoot people here...

Yeah, but you lost ALL your freedoms and you can't hunt deer with semi automatic weapons and you can't own property and the man is always watching you and blah blah be-fucking blah.

:roll:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Of course people who are bitching about Obamas tax plan would rather keep spending 10 billion/month on the war and keep transferring money to Halliburton and other defense contractors.

Where do you think that money goes to - US equipment and people that work for those companies.

US equipment is primarily built in the US by US workers.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Of course people who are bitching about Obamas tax plan would rather keep spending 10 billion/month on the war and keep transferring money to Halliburton and other defense contractors.

Where do you think that money goes to - US equipment and people that work for those companies.

US equipment is primarily built in the US by US workers.

Don't forget all the money we're spending to keep the Sunni death squads from turning on us.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: quest55720
With the Obama plan the single middle/working class are going to get creamed. The people with kids get almost all the tax breaks. Obama can claim all he wants he will get the rich. The rich will find ways to pay less. The burden will be on the rest of us with out kids who can't afford a team of lawyers and accountants.

As a single guy with no kids who's comfortably in the middle class, I can honestly say I don't really care. I like more money, who doesn't? But I'm getting by just fine, and there are a lot of folks out there who aren't...and I'm getting pretty fucking tired of this whiny attitude of "I want more money, and screw the rest of the country" displayed by my financial peers.

There are certain things the government needs to do, and it takes money to do those things. And I'm fine with a disproportionate amount of that money coming from folks like me or folks who make far more money. You know why? Because that's the only way the system is going to work. I pulled my head out of my ass and decided that, while I personally might like to have way lower taxes, that's probably not a very good idea in the long run. Because liberals don't want to give up public education, and conservatives don't want to give up the defense budget...and that's fine, those things are good uses of money. But I find it totally ridiculous when people who are well off demand that we cruise the aisles of Wal-Mart, looking for poor people who "don't pay their fair share".

I pay a lot of taxes, I don't use very many government services, and I manage to not make whining about it the centerpiece of my political philosophy...it's really not that hard.

That is nice for you but I don't have any extra money to give away to others. I am just a working class stiff who is going to get creamed by Obama.

I would be extremely interested in any data that backs that up. Because quite honestly, I think you've been listening to too many McCain campaign commercials.

He is going to rescind the bush tax cuts and replace them with these credits. Most single working/middle class don't qualify for. I don't have kids which is 90% of the tax credits. I don't own a home to poor that is the other 5%. I am sure I make to much to qualify for the full 500 dollar tax credit. My taxes will be going up some ones will have to and it will be the single middle/working class.

This is your explanation of "getting creamed" by Obama's tax plan for you? ROFL. Stop spreading lies, your taxes aren't going up at all until you make over 6 figures which you have not indicated you do. But I do appreciate a good lunchtime laugh, thanks.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Of course people who are bitching about Obamas tax plan would rather keep spending 10 billion/month on the war and keep transferring money to Halliburton and other defense contractors.

Where do you think that money goes to - US equipment and people that work for those companies.

US equipment is primarily built in the US by US workers.

Don't forget all the money we're spending to keep the Sunni death squads from turning on us.

I will agree that some funds are being spent overseas and do not come back to us.

My post was directed at the example that was quoted.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: PolymerTim

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: quest55720
With the Obama plan the single middle/working class are going to get creamed. The people with kids get almost all the tax breaks. Obama can claim all he wants he will get the rich. The rich will find ways to pay less. The burden will be on the rest of us with out kids who can't afford a team of lawyers and accountants.

As a single guy with no kids who's comfortably in the middle class, I can honestly say I don't really care. I like more money, who doesn't? But I'm getting by just fine, and there are a lot of folks out there who aren't...and I'm getting pretty fucking tired of this whiny attitude of "I want more money, and screw the rest of the country" displayed by my financial peers.

There are certain things the government needs to do, and it takes money to do those things. And I'm fine with a disproportionate amount of that money coming from folks like me or folks who make far more money. You know why? Because that's the only way the system is going to work. I pulled my head out of my ass and decided that, while I personally might like to have way lower taxes, that's probably not a very good idea in the long run. Because liberals don't want to give up public education, and conservatives don't want to give up the defense budget...and that's fine, those things are good uses of money. But I find it totally ridiculous when people who are well off demand that we cruise the aisles of Wal-Mart, looking for poor people who "don't pay their fair share".

I pay a lot of taxes, I don't use very many government services, and I manage to not make whining about it the centerpiece of my political philosophy...it's really not that hard.

That is nice for you but I don't have any extra money to give away to others. I am just a working class stiff who is going to get creamed by Obama.

I would be extremely interested in any data that backs that up. Because quite honestly, I think you've been listening to too many McCain campaign commercials.

He is going to rescind the bush tax cuts and replace them with these credits. Most single working/middle class don't qualify for. I don't have kids which is 90% of the tax credits. I don't own a home to poor that is the other 5%. I am sure I make to much to qualify for the full 500 dollar tax credit. My taxes will be going up some ones will have to and it will be the single middle/working class.

Actually, this is not true. As Rainsford alluded; be careful where you get your information. If you're interested in candidates proposed tax policies, here is a good link:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...tion_issues_matrix.cfm

In fact, in addition to all those credits you mention, Obama is still planning to keep the 2001/2003 tax credits for everyone in the 10, 15, 25, and 28 percent brackets.

As others have said, you need to be making a six-figure salary before you start making more in the McCain proposal.
Here's another good summary:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...layatab.cfm?DocID=1839

Don't expect to see a reply to this. Most of the shills in here dont care about the truth, only which lies they can get away with telling.

If someone claims to be very angry about Obama's tax plan, but hasn't done the research to even figure out what it's going to cost him, chances are that person doesn't care about the actual plan and knows he's lying. He just wants to scare others into voting McCain.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: yowolabi

Originally posted by: PolymerTim
Actually, this is not true. As Rainsford alluded; be careful where you get your information. If you're interested in candidates proposed tax policies, here is a good link:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...tion_issues_matrix.cfm

In fact, in addition to all those credits you mention, Obama is still planning to keep the 2001/2003 tax credits for everyone in the 10, 15, 25, and 28 percent brackets.

As others have said, you need to be making a six-figure salary before you start making more in the McCain proposal.
Here's another good summary:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...layatab.cfm?DocID=1839

Don't expect to see a reply to this. Most of the shills in here dont care about the truth, only which lies they can get away with telling.

If someone claims to be very angry about Obama's tax plan, but hasn't done the research to even figure out what it's going to cost him, chances are that person doesn't care about the actual plan and knows he's lying. He just wants to scare others into voting McCain.

100% of Weenar111 Credibility: ---->||<----

 

[Lemon law]

Anyone who thinks either Obama's or McCain tax plans will survive in the current economic realities are fooling themselves. GWB's spend and borrow policies have screwed us for decades to come and the Next five or more Presidents will have to engage in paying back the debts.

 

[NeoV]

I didn't see a single mention of the fact that the tax increases on those over the 250k mark, under Obama's plan, are merely a return to prior tax levels - and I'm pretty sure the economy was doing pretty well at the time, it's not like wealthy people/families stopped spending money.

If you want to talk about the # of people that don't pay taxes, lets talk about the number of BS deductions people are allowed, lets talk about the number of wealthy people/companies that use BS loopholes to avoid or largely eliminate their tax burdens. There are many, many problems with the tax system in this country - but in terms of whose tax plan helps more people - Obama's plan is significantly better.

And I have to comment on butter-boy...."Obama is like a mediocre community college prof who woke up and discovered he could run for president because the media would cover for him and make him seem as smart as he only sounds." I suppose butterboy was the head of the Harvard Law review - or for that matter was/could even get accepted to Columbia or Harvard?

 

[PolymerTim]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: PolymerTim
Actually, this is not true. As Rainsford alluded; be careful where you get your information. If you're interested in candidates proposed tax policies, here is a good link:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...tion_issues_matrix.cfm

In fact, in addition to all those credits you mention, Obama is still planning to keep the 2001/2003 tax credits for everyone in the 10, 15, 25, and 28 percent brackets.

As others have said, you need to be making a six-figure salary before you start making more in the McCain proposal.
Here's another good summary:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...layatab.cfm?DocID=1839

Any idea where they got the numbers for their simulation? I can't find them anywhere.

I don't know about taxpolicycenter, but I think most of the numbers come from campaign websites, although they are not always easy to find. I haven't had as much time for research as I like, but I did find this little gem a while back that not only gives a detailed, non-partisan summary of both candidates proposals insofar as they affect the budget, but also is very good about providing its source information.

I would take the numbers with a grain of salt though. If you read the details, a lot of assumptions had to be made to fill in gaps. But it does make an effort to pull together all the various campaign promises to give you an idea of what they might all look like together.

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Anyone who thinks either Obama's or McCain tax plans will survive in the current economic realities are fooling themselves. GWB's spend and borrow policies have screwed us for decades to come and the Next five or more Presidents will have to engage in paying back the debts.

I completely agree. At least one major candidate in the news lately has been realistic enough to admit that recent events will have a necessary effect on the viability of past campaign promises. IMHO, the best we can do is look at the intentions and logic of the candidates. There are still many other influences on the development of our economic policy.

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Why do you conservatives have opinions. You voted for Bush and ruined our country. Who gives a shit what you think. You're idiots. STFU. You've destroyed our economy and you yap yap yap about liberals. Brain dead is what you are. You have shit all over your face and you prance into threads to spout your ridiculous opinions. How much worse do you what to f everything up. You have absolutely no credibility at all and you're still stuffed full of garbage. Go vomit somewhere in a bag and smack it on your heads. Please have a little humility. Have some shame. You dunces couldn't be more upside down.

Grand Slam, there, Moonbeam.:thumbsup: