Obamacare was too late to help me.

[Jhhnn]

That's the thing. The republicans weren't even invited when this bill was written. How were we supposed to participate?

Educate yourself-

http://www.americasfairhealthcare.org/blog/entry/fact-check-how-the-health-care-law-was-made/

 

[sactoking]

How would Obamacare solve your medical bill?

Yeah, the ACA wouldn't really solve the problem, it just masks it and distributes the pain to the "innocent".

Under the ACA, OP:
Would not be denied coverage;
Would not be given a coverage exclusion for heart disease;
Would have a "reasonable" premium, based on age, location, and smoker status;
Would possibly qualify for a tax credit; and
Would likely not receive substantially better or cheaper health care.

The risk/premium provisions ensure that while his individual plan would be better for him it would be incrementally worse for everyone else. Health status cannot be a factor in premium rating and the OP will not pay a premium proportionate to his risk; he will be subsidized by everyone else. In addition, had the ACA existed his coverage would not be substantially or even marginally better. Most people are likely to end up on a Bronze or Silver plan, since Silver plans dictate the subsidies and Bronze plans are comparatively cheap. The problem is that Bronze and silver plans have actuarial values of 60% and 70%, respectively. That is comparable to many standard plans on the market today.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It's through your work? Because there is no way your rates are that low if not.

Of course it's through work. I work for an evil corporation that pays their employees well and provides affordable health care. I get family dental for an additional $20/month, family vision for $10/month, and legal services for $7.50/month.

I forgot to mention that I pay a 20% copay after the deductible is met.

 

[umbrella39]

Your complaint basically amounts to you wish the rest of us were paying more of your health insurance and medical bills via taxpayer subsidy, despite the fact that you can afford them. And yet those of us who oppose obamacare are the selfish ones.

This is the argument many of us have against subsidizing the healthy, younger workers of this country who have jobs and the option to get health care. Not one in his 50's with pre-existing conditions who DID buy health care like the OP.

No, he isn't the problem. The problem is the person I mentioned who opts out of health care at work because nothing would ever happen to them and they never get sick. The rest of us are paying more of their non existent health insurance and medical bills via increased costs for procedures and increased premiums, despite the fact that they can afford them. And yet those of us who work at hospitals who like to get paid for our time and work are the selfish ones.

 

[xj0hnx]

Of course it's through work. I work for an evil corporation that pays their employees well and provides affordable health care. I get family dental for an additional $20/month, family vision for $10/month, and legal services for $7.50/month.

I forgot to mention that I pay a 20% copay after the deductible is met.

Unfortunately lots of people don't have a job that pays insurance, or even that much of it, and getting a policy independently of work is unaffordable.

 

[sactoking]

Of course it's through work. I work for an evil corporation that pays their employees well and provides affordable health care. I get family dental for an additional $20/month, family vision for $10/month, and legal services for $7.50/month.

I forgot to mention that I pay a 20% coinsurance after the deductible is met.

FTFY. Copay is a flat dollar amount, coinsurance is a %.

 

[NeoV]

shut up Nemesis, don't you have a comet impact to prepare for?

 

[Sonikku]

It's Liberals like you that want to trust our healthcare to the whims of government. You can't TRUST government.

Trust your healthcare to the corporations. They are so much more compassionate. The government just wants your money.

 

[Nemesis 1]

shut up Nemesis, don't you have a comet impact to prepare for?

Its not I who needs to prepare . Me and mine have nothing to fear. You however reviel yourself and have much to prepare for . Alas I know preperation will not come to you. The heat of this season is nothing compared to the effect that was caused. TIME is on my side . Time stands strong against you and yours.Your stuck on the tracks and there is no way out for you and yours. You will come running back to the lord but the door will be closed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhuAx-eaIM4

 

[DrPizza]

So, the OP tanked his business by spending more than he could afford, when he could have easily arranged to make payments to the hospital? I have trouble believing that anyone smart enough to run their own business is this stupid, therefore, I'm calling shens.

 

[MovingTarget]

So, the OP tanked his business by spending more than he could afford, when he could have easily arranged to make payments to the hospital? I have trouble believing that anyone smart enough to run their own business is this stupid, therefore, I'm calling shens.

Eh, not all hospitals are that forgiving when it comes to setting up payment plans. There's likely something else at work here.

 

[cubby1223]

<snip>

The solution to your problems, obviously, is to create a shit-ton of threads across the internet about all the things you hate. I see you have begun with this, keep up the productivity!

 

[Munky]

The solution to your problems, obviously, is to create a shit-ton of threads across the internet about all the things you hate. I see you have begun with this, keep up the productivity!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[fskimospy]

Of course it's through work. I work for an evil corporation that pays their employees well and provides affordable health care. I get family dental for an additional $20/month, family vision for $10/month, and legal services for $7.50/month.

I forgot to mention that I pay a 20% copay after the deductible is met.

Your original post was saying his insurance was crappy because he paid $700 a month. You realize that your $180 contribution is only a small fraction of what you are actually paying, right? Since the overall monthly outlay for you is likely more than $700 a month (possibly a great deal more), why is his insurance crappy?

 

[shira]

baloney. No way the entire premium for a family plan with those deductibles is that low for a family that includes a woman and kids.

If it is true, what state are you in ? And your age ?

Anyway, I do have a better plan than the OP, but it costs me $900 a month at age 55. That's an individual plan fron Blue Cross with $2500 deductible, max of $5000 out of pocket per year.

I have a good friend in the state of Virginia whose premiums for private insurance went up yet again: To over $15,000 annually, with a $2500 deductible. He just turned 60 and has been with the company since he was in his thirties.

I, on the other hand, have a group policy - a PPO plan with Cigna through my employer. My share of the premium cost is only about $1000 a year (I'm single, but that's about to change), with a $1000 deductible.

It's hilarious how those with group policies subsidized by their employer think their situation is typical. But the premiums for even group policies are under tremendous upward pressure. The main problem is that more and more healthy people are opting out of insurance because of the relentless increase in premiums. That leaves a still higher concentration of higher-risk people in insurance plans, and the insurance companies raise their rates in response. It's a vicious cycle that can be controlled only by a strong mandate. Hopefully, Obamacare will help.

The Swiss operate under an insurance model similar to Obamacare: A mandate to purchase insurance from private, for-profit insurance companies, where the insurance companies are not allowed to turn anyone away. Because the Swiss use a for-profit model, their medical costs are very high, but still only two-thirds of those in the U.S. The Swiss are by and large happy with their system, and I think Americans will be, too.

 

[fskimospy]

I have a good friend in the state of Virginia whose premiums for private insurance went up yet again: To over $15,000 annually, with a $2500 deductible. He just turned 60 and has been with the company since he was in his thirties.

I, on the other hand, have a group policy - a PPO plan with Cigna through my employer. My share of the premium cost is only about $1000 a year (I'm single, but that's about to change), with a $1000 deductible.

It's hilarious how those with group policies subsidized by their employer think their situation is typical. But the premiums for even group policies are under tremendous upward pressure. The main problem is that more and more healthy people are opting out of insurance because of the relentless increase in premiums. That leaves a still higher concentration of higher-risk people in insurance plans, the the insurance companies raise their rates in response. It's a vicious cycle that can be controlled only by a strong mandate. Hopefully, Obamacare will help.

The Swiss operate under an insurance model similar to Obamacare: A mandate to purchase insurance from private, for-profit insurance companies, where the insurance companies are not allowed to turn anyone away. Because the Swiss use a for-profit model, their medical costs are very high, but still only two-thirds of those in the U.S. The Swiss are by and large happy with their system, and I think Americans will be, too.

What's also interesting is that people generally don't realize that they are indirectly paying for this employer contribution. Although there are various tax advantages, etc from this, their salaries are lower because of the extra $$ their employer is paying for their health coverage. You might only see $180 a month come out of your check, but your check would very likely be considerably larger if it weren't for all that extra cash your employer is paying on your behalf.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

What's also interesting is that people generally don't realize that they are indirectly paying for this employer contribution. Although there are various tax advantages, etc from this, their salaries are lower because of the extra $$ their employer is paying for their health coverage. You might only see $180 a month come out of your check, but your check would very likely be considerably larger if it weren't for all that extra cash your employer is paying on your behalf.

Yep getting paid a 6 figure salary without a college degree is really paying the price good health insurance coverage.

 

[fskimospy]

Yep getting paid a 6 figure salary without a college degree is really paying the price good health insurance coverage.

I'm glad you agree! I don't think this is a controversial opinion or one that's really open to argument. Employers all over the country have a set amount of money to pay their employees. Say you make $100,000 a year and they pay $10,000 a year in health care on top of that. If health care weren't an issue your employer could have paid you $110,000, a more competitive salary on the exact same budget.

People might argue that the employer would just pocket the difference, but in a competitive employment market some of that would very likely go your way. So yes, your health care costs are still taking money out of your pocket. More than you might realize.

 

[cubby1223]

But the premiums for even group policies are under tremendous upward pressure. The main problem is that more and more healthy people are opting out of insurance because of the relentless increase in premiums.

How about, you are wrong.

The main problem is that health care costs are crazy expensive.

You are saying the problem is that not enough people are paying, I say the overall amount to pay is too high. And please point me to where in Obamacare the unnecessary causes of high costs are addressed.

 

[shira]

How about, you are wrong.

The main problem is that health care costs are crazy expensive.

You are saying the problem is that not enough people are paying, I say the overall amount to pay is too high. And please point me to where in Obamacare the unnecessary causes of high costs are addressed.

You're essentially making a circular claim: the reason that health care costs in the U.S. are going up so rapidly is that "[t]he main problem is that health care costs are crazy expensive." That doesn't explain anything. And it certainly doesn't explain why health care costs in the U.S. are so much higher than anywhere else. Look at pretty much every other first-world country; America's costs are DOUBLE the average cost in those countries, and our outcomes are worse.

I certainly agree that medicine is inherently expensive - new technologies and medicines increase costs, but I also think America has a totally crappy health-care model. And I think that the Obamacare model, though not perfect (but given the state of Congress, nothing more radical was really possible), is a step in the right direction.

 

[shadow9d9]

Of course it's through work. I work for an evil corporation that pays their employees well and provides affordable health care. I get family dental for an additional $20/month, family vision for $10/month, and legal services for $7.50/month.

I forgot to mention that I pay a 20% copay after the deductible is met.

Then you were being disingenuous about how much you pay. You took a hit to your salary and pay the extra healthcare costs from the hit. The extra health insurance costs YOU pay are hidden by your employer.

 

[SNC]

As some of you know I had a heart attack a couple of months ago. I had a stent put in and I am fine now.

I just got the bill from the hospital. I have a small business and I did some extensive research looking at any and all of the associations I could join that offered health insurance. As a former health insurance exec I probably knew a lot more than most people and feel I selected the best one. It cost me 700 per month at my age, middle fifties.

Well, the bill came and the part that the health insurance didn't cover was a little over 11,000 dollars. I just wrote them a check.

Unfortunately for me that money was going to buy a car since my old one has too many problems to keep on the road. Bye, bye car.

Since I can no longer make service calls I have had a severe loss of income. NOW I am eligible for a health plan that is run by my liberal state. Of course, if my income goes back up I will be kicked off the plan.

So, I have cut my hours back and now will not be paying taxes this year and instead will be getting government benefits.

If only Obamacare had come sooner I could still be working full time and be a productive member of society. Sadly, the 10 or so not for profits I serviced for very low fees will now have to find services elsewhere. About 10-20 businesses will have to try and find a new computer services company. Unfortunately for them I am the only company within 20 miles. A service call starts at 200 bucks for them to come to my town.

The Chamber of Commerce even called me. They said that the booklet they produce every year for prospective businesses will no longer have a computer services company and was there anything I could do. I told them no.

There is no way this is on the up-and-up. You are an ex-exec of an insurance company, and you went belly-up because of an 11,000 bill? The car you have been driving is is such poor shape that it is no longer drive-able? All the while you are in an area that is willing to pay a $200 service call for simple IT work? based on a 4 hour month for each of the 10-20 your looking at 8-16,000 a MONTH!!!!! in just in routine maintenance and updates, that doesn't include upgrades and expanding. Sounds to me like this is a troll, and if not where the hell do you live? I've been looking for a place to open my second shop!

 

[cubby1223]

You're essentially making a circular claim: the reason that health care costs in the U.S. are going up so rapidly is that "[t]he main problem is that health care costs are crazy expensive." That doesn't explain anything. And it certainly doesn't explain why health care costs in the U.S. are so much higher than anywhere else. Look at pretty much every other first-world country; America's costs are DOUBLE the average cost in those countries, and our outcomes are worse.

I certainly agree that medicine is inherently expensive - new technologies and medicines increase costs, but I also think America has a totally crappy health-care model. And I think that the Obamacare model, though not perfect (but given the state of Congress, nothing more radical was really possible), is a step in the right direction.

For one cost example - why do the medical and pharmaceutical industries have such power to dictate high prices to hospitals? Part of it is their influence on D.C., allowing them to operate as if they had a monopoly on the market, then double on the prices of health care is largely hidden through insurance, where doctors, patients, hospitals, no one actually sees what the costs are except for the bean counters, and the executive suits.

When you say the biggest problem is those who do not buy insurance, all you are talking about is cost redistribution, not cost reduction. Obamacare's children stay on parents' plan until 26 - cost redistribution, not cost reduction. Insurance mandate - cost redistribution, not cost reduction. Increase medicare eligibility - cost redistribution, not cost reduction. Increased free preventative care and certain women's health care - cost redistribution, not cost reduction.


How many times has the stereotypical conservative said Obamacare would encourage people to be poor? And how many times have the forum liberal activists, including techs, refuted that by saying quite definitively that people will not choose to be poor for the government handouts - which ended up being the exact reason for this thread?

When the root causes of high cost are addressed, you create a system that is more affordable for 100% of Americans, not just the poorest 15% of Americans that were largely targeted by Obamacare.



My personal opinion, costs are high because of government mandates and regulations on the system, while may be well-intentioned, create monopolistic practices. Tack on more mandates and more regulations, in my opinion the natural tendency is towards more monopolistic practices, not less.

But, to get back to the overall point, you wrote that the main problem of high costs is that the costs are not spread out enough across the whole population. I disagree 100% with you.

 

[Ronstang]

So, the OP tanked his business by spending more than he could afford, when he could have easily arranged to make payments to the hospital? I have trouble believing that anyone smart enough to run their own business is this stupid, therefore, I'm calling shens.

Yeah, he is none too bright. He could have negotiated the amount down too. Hospitals overcharge, it is their nature, because there are enough dumb people that simply pay the amount. It helps them compensate for all the losers the government forces them to treat for free.

The last time I was in the hospital emergency room for stitches they wanted to gouge the crap out of me. This was about 20 years ago. I told them I would not pay that amount. Eventually they offered me a much reduced rate, about a third, so I wrote them a check.

 

[werepossum]

So, the OP tanked his business by spending more than he could afford, when he could have easily arranged to make payments to the hospital? I have trouble believing that anyone smart enough to run their own business is this stupid, therefore, I'm calling shens.

True, but it's a good excuse to slow down - not a bad idea just after a heart attack.

Your original post was saying his insurance was crappy because he paid $700 a month. You realize that your $180 contribution is only a small fraction of what you are actually paying, right? Since the overall monthly outlay for you is likely more than $700 a month (possibly a great deal more), why is his insurance crappy?

True. The cost of your insurance is part of your compensation; therefore it is coming from your cut as much as it's coming from your employer.

My biggest problem with single payer is this attitude that there is a free lunch, that "someone else" should pay for our health care. Well, we're all "someone else" to other people. Just like the guy who gives the nice African prince his bank account info because he thinks he's going to get free money, we're going to screw ourselves royally trying to get a free lunch.