Obamacare premiums going way up for many (22% on average)

[x26]

This 'pile' as you call it has saved me thousands per year in premiums. It has provided coverage for millions more Americans than before its passage and you have no clue what you are parroting.

So you're a Moocher--Congrats. 😉

 

[feralkid]

Paid taxes all my life...some jackass just called me a moocher.

 

[JSt0rm]

Paid taxes all my life...some jackass just called me a moocher.

Some jack ass from a moocher red state no less.

 

[agent00f]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said.

His point's that Obamacare was basically the republican counterproposal to the initial clinton healthcare plan.

 

[agent00f]

This has been discussed to death when obamacare was first jammed down our throats. One of the main benefits of Health Savings Accounts is that it removes the disconnect between the patient and what his healthcare actually costs. HSA's were shown to reduce healthcare spending.... but obamacare has moved us back in the direction of the patient having no clue what procedures cost.

Just a heads up that every other first world peer spends ~half what we do for similar results, so it doesn't exactly take much smarts to just copy their more effective methodology. Of course nobody's ever accused you guys of having much smarts so I guess we're an impasse of what to about this unfortunate situation.

 

[ivwshane]

His point's that Obamacare was basically the republican counterproposal to the initial clinton healthcare plan.

Yeah I get that, I just don't see what that has to do with anything I said. Its not like when Obama set out to accomplish healthcare reform the Republicans said, "try Romneycare". Just because dems used a Republican program as the basis for their reform doesn't mean Republicans helped or tried to make things better nor does it mean they have tried to make it better since.

 

[agent00f]

Yeah I get that, I just don't see what that has to do with anything I said. Its not like when Obama set out to accomplish healthcare reform the Republicans said, "try Romneycare". Just because dems used a Republican program as the basis for their reform doesn't mean Republicans helped or tried to make things better nor does it mean they have tried to make it better since.

His original post seems more a reply to the GOP crowd here who evidently weren't aware it was the republican healthcare plan; as in "no wonder it's kinda shitty given it was the republican healthcare plan".

 

[ivwshane]

His original post seems more a reply to the GOP crowd here who evidently weren't aware it was the republican healthcare plan; as in "no wonder it's kinda shitty given it was the republican healthcare plan".

Sarcasm doesn't work too well on the internet which is why I've been advocating the use of the sarcasm tag. -> /s

Back when there weren't so many people who were on the extremes of political beliefs, sarcasm was much easier to detect. Now a days, what one might consider a post as being sarcastic the original poster is actually being serious.

 

[Bitek]

I'm sure it's tied into the law somehow. Been there 11 years it's never been this high of a yearly increase.

That's some bullshit reasoning right there.


I'm sure it's tied to ISIS. Somehow.

 

[Bitek]

If you actually want an intelligent discussion of the law, try this link:

http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/10/26/13408338/obamacare-broken-fixes

Cliffs:

- Plans have been largely underpriced in the start up phase.
-Increases mostly a one time event due to expiring rebates from the Feds back to insurers
-increases largely absorbed by subsidies for most enrollees
-insurers better understanding true costs and risk pool

->One major flaw is that mandate is too lenient. Congress nerfed it (because they are pussies)
- Too many heathy people are not enrolling.
- Pools are smaller and sicker than originally planned
-The fix is politically dangerous. Have to push more people in to lower rates.

Unfortunately the more likely outcome is just upping the subsidies. This will cost more to taxpayers long run, but more so, basically run Obamacare like the Medicaid program mostly for sick and poor, not a universal insurance program as intended.

 

[Bitek]

Lastly, Trump and the GOP have dick for fixing it.

Pretty clear choices:

1. Fix existing law. Make mandates work
2. Repeal. Kick millions of insurance and bring back pre-existing conditions. Watch nuclear fallout.
3. Go to socialized medicine. (Also not politically viable)

Stop diluting yourself there is some magic pill, like "waste, fraud and abuse" or "campaign finance reform", that's going to fix it on the cheap.

You have to pay for it, and healthcare is expensive no matter what.

 

[Thump553]

I'm self employed. For the decade prior to Obamacare my premiums went up probably 25% per year on average for crappy coverage (15K deductible) and it ended up that the premium was almost as much as our mortgage payment-for a couple with excellent health, no issues.

Obamacare aka Romneycare is one of the best things that ever happened to us. Perhaps the difference is in my state the state government is actually trying to implement it rather than actively resisting and sabotaging it, like in so many red states.

I have yet to hear any concrete proposal for the replace part of the repeal and replace mantra that is worth jack shit.

I've said it before and will say it again-the government should eliminate overnight the payroll deduction for medical insurance so it no longer makes sense for employers to provide it. When everyone is getting hurt we will get some real reform. Right now it's pitting the haves versus the have-nots.

 

[glenn1]

I'm self employed. For the decade prior to Obamacare my premiums went up probably 25% per year on average for crappy coverage (15K deductible) and it ended up that the premium was almost as much as our mortgage payment-for a couple with excellent health, no issues.

Obamacare aka Romneycare is one of the best things that ever happened to us. Perhaps the difference is in my state the state government is actually trying to implement it rather than actively resisting and sabotaging it, like in so many red states.

I have yet to hear any concrete proposal for the replace part of the repeal and replace mantra that is worth jack shit.

I've said it before and will say it again-the government should eliminate overnight the payroll deduction for medical insurance so it no longer makes sense for employers to provide it. When everyone is getting hurt we will get some real reform. Right now it's pitting the haves versus the have-nots.

I've long advocated for the repeal of employment based health insurance tax subsidies, with the savings used to fund truly universal catastrophic insurance. My sense is that supporters of Obamacare would rather have a few million more covered with employer-subsidized style plans that cover everything rather than all covered but with a more basic benefit. Sorta like min wage, they'd rather 1 guy making $15/ hour and 9 unemployed than $5/hour with 9 having jobs and 1 unemployed.

 

[1prophet]

I'm self employed. For the decade prior to Obamacare my premiums went up probably 25% per year on average for crappy coverage (15K deductible) and it ended up that the premium was almost as much as our mortgage payment-for a couple with excellent health, no issues.

Obamacare aka Romneycare is one of the best things that ever happened to us. Perhaps the difference is in my state the state government is actually trying to implement it rather than actively resisting and sabotaging it, like in so many red states.

I have yet to hear any concrete proposal for the replace part of the repeal and replace mantra that is worth jack shit.

I've said it before and will say it again-the government should eliminate overnight the payroll deduction for medical insurance so it no longer makes sense for employers to provide it. When everyone is getting hurt we will get some real reform. Right now it's pitting the haves versus the have-nots.[

Corporate brainwashing is strong here, first eliminate good paying jobs that provided healthcare now brainwash the people to believe the ones that are left looking out for their employees are evil.

We actually had the model for the best health plan policy for healthcare in this country and Hillary Clinton referred to it back in the early 90's when she was pushing her health plan it was called the "Rochester miracle" in Rochester NY,

Big companies like Kodak would let small companies pool their resources together with them this way someone working at the local deli could have good health coverage like the person working at Kodak,

also the medical, government & insurance companies as well as the businesses would work together to contain COSTS while provided the best health care coverage to as many as possible,

but that all required cooperation and keeping businesses in America, two no no's for the greedy 1%
(especially in the insurance and pharmaceutical companies) who had the attitude "I got mine, screw the rest of you"

 

[child of wonder]

The problem is that rising insurance rates are a symptom, not the true problem. The problem is the medical industry charging exorbitant rates expecting insurance to pay for it. $10/pill for Tylenol, $300 for a 30 minute doctor visit, $50,000 for a small in patient surgery, and so on. Look at the financials of the large hospital/clinic systems in the country and how they're gobbling up all their competition at an alarming rate. This is the real issue and one Obamacare doesn't address.

 

[soundforbjt]

The problem is that rising insurance rates are a symptom, not the true problem. The problem is the medical industry charging exorbitant rates expecting insurance to pay for it. $10/pill for Tylenol, $300 for a 30 minute doctor visit, $50,000 for a small in patient surgery, and so on. Look at the financials of the large hospital/clinic systems in the country and how they're gobbling up all their competition at an alarming rate. This is the real issue and one Obamacare doesn't address.

And it will never be addressed, another reason our healthcare system doesn't work for all Americans is partly due to the AMA keeping the pool of doctors low to keep salaries high.

 

[Zorba]

The problem is that rising insurance rates are a symptom, not the true problem. The problem is the medical industry charging exorbitant rates expecting insurance to pay for it. $10/pill for Tylenol, $300 for a 30 minute doctor visit, $50,000 for a small in patient surgery, and so on. Look at the financials of the large hospital/clinic systems in the country and how they're gobbling up all their competition at an alarming rate. This is the real issue and one Obamacare doesn't address.

I agree that the biggest issue with Obamacare is that it largely ignored costs except for some Medicare costs.

Local monopoly forming also needs to be stopped.

 

[hal2kilo]

The problem is that rising insurance rates are a symptom, not the true problem. The problem is the medical industry charging exorbitant rates expecting insurance to pay for it. $10/pill for Tylenol, $300 for a 30 minute doctor visit, $50,000 for a small in patient surgery, and so on. Look at the financials of the large hospital/clinic systems in the country and how they're gobbling up all their competition at an alarming rate. This is the real issue and one Obamacare doesn't address.

Seem the Fransicans are making a haul out of this in my area. They've taken over the Doctors Clinic and the local regional hospital all in a period of a year. All I can say is they better keep their religious beliefs to themselves.

 

[bshole]

Lastly, Trump and the GOP have dick for fixing it.

Pretty clear choices:

1. Fix existing law. Make mandates work
2. Repeal. Kick millions of insurance and bring back pre-existing conditions. Watch nuclear fallout.
3. Go to socialized medicine. (Also not politically viable)

Stop diluting yourself there is some magic pill, like "waste, fraud and abuse" or "campaign finance reform", that's going to fix it on the cheap.

You have to pay for it, and healthcare is expensive no matter what.

The problem is that if you look at the charts, it's costs are increasing at a rate that will make it unaffordable to even the upper middle class in two decades. Look at the cost curve, more than tripling every 20 years. At this rate which has marched on unabated for two decades, the cost will be $100K for a family of four in 2036, that is well outside what I could afford to pay even if my company picked up half the tab. I think this is what happens when you can't offshore skilled labor..... you pay for it. Corporate leadership today involves little more than coming up with plans to offshore jobs. When confronted with a problem that cannot be offshored, this is what their leadership gives us. Socialize it and TRIAGE it.

 

[glenn1]

The problem is that if you look at the charts, it's costs are increasing at a rate that will make it unaffordable to even the upper middle class in two decades. Look at the cost curve, more than tripling every 20 years. At this rate which has marched on unabated for two decades, the cost will be $100K for a family of four in 2036, that is well outside what I could afford to pay even if my company picked up half the tab. I think this is what happens when you can't offshore skilled labor..... you pay for it. Corporate leadership today involves little more than coming up with plans to offshore jobs. When confronted with a problem that cannot be offshored, this is what their leadership gives us. Socialize it and TRIAGE it.

Is "triage" your euphemism for admitting that poor ghetto folks are going to get shitty to non-existent care? Or do you think that just magic handwaving is going to repeal the laws of supply and demand and reduce costs even though you're spiking demand by "socializing" demand without adding new supply? So how have those increasing government subsidies (and now government originated loans) to college education done in reducing costs?

 

[bshole]

Is "triage" your euphemism for admitting that poor ghetto folks are going to get shitty to non-existent care? Or do you think that just magic handwaving is going to repeal the laws of supply and demand and reduce costs even though you're spiking demand by "socializing" demand without adding new supply? So how have those increasing government subsidies (and now government originated loans) to college education done in reducing costs?

Triage means that if the cost of the operation is $200K and you are 85 years old and are unlikely to survive the operation, you don't get the operation. It would be based on probability of surviving and maximum benefit. Somebody needs to realize that at some point, it is better for the patient to make their last days comfortable rather than putting them through expensive procedures which will do little if anything to prolong their life and add much suffering. Triage would not be based on ability to pay at all.

 

[bshole]

Triage means that if the cost of the operation is $200K and you are 85 years old and are unlikely to survive the operation, you don't get the operation. It would be based on probability of surviving and maximum benefit. Somebody needs to realize that at some point, it is better for the patient to make their last days comfortable rather than putting them through expensive procedures which will do little if anything to prolong their life and add much suffering. Triage would not be based on ability to pay at all.

I should of course be exempted from the triage process. They should do everything in their power to keep ME alive, the rest of you should go through the triage process.

 

[theeedude]

Its no longer nearly that partisan:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-pharmaceuticals-idUSKCN0Z22F1
4 of the top 10 Congressional recipients for 2016 were Democrats

She got less from pharma employees for her campaign than she gets for one speech and less than 1000th of her contributions. Kind of silly to argue she is beholden to them.
The Republican congress critters are getting millions to block any action on revoking the blank check they wrote to big pharma in 2003.

 

[trenchfoot]

Wages and benefits are stagnant and more and more jobs are being off shored. Yet the cost of healthcare keeps rising by leaps and bounds. Somewhere along the timeline it's possible that either our working class is going to become indentured slaves to the healthcare industry (already there?) or a European styled version of healthcare will have to be instituted to get some kind of control over the ridiculously rising cost of health care.

Logically, something needs to be done, and done sooner than later.

 

[HumblePie]

Said this many a time in the past.

The ACA at it's root was an attempt to put everyone in the country on a health insurance plan in the hopes that those extra healthy people would soak up the costs incurred by non-healthy people. Thus by spreading the burden the prices for everyone would fall.

That was flawed thinking from the get go because of several reasons. First being that insurance isn't country wide. In many cases not even state wide in coverage/application. So people in New York are not helping to lower costs for people in Arizona and vice versa. The premise of healthcare and insurance in terms of profit not being regulated are another huge error in the ACA plan. Nothing was done to specifically address problem with regards to companies charging whatever they feel like and people having no recourse but to pay or basically let the "insurance" industry pay. Which they do, but in the end just raise rates to make up for it so they can keep their profit margin going year after year.

There are several more flaws, not as big as the ones I posted, but they all add up. Personally would have preferred a nationwide single payer system over the current implementation of the ACA. So to me it is no surprise that it is really not doing what was promised. Which is making health care affordable for everyone.

For reference right now, I'm stuck paying $600 a WEEK for health care for myself and my family. Sucks balls.