Obama wants to raise cig tax

[Apple Of Sodom]

I don't particularly like Obama but I do like this.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/news/economy/cigarette-tax/index.html?source=cnn_bin

He wants to nearly double the cigarette tax. Of course, people are up in arms about it.

1) The article states the tax is regressive and will hit poor people especially hard because smokers tend to make less; almost half of the median wage of non-smokers. How can an OPTIONAL tax be regressive?

2) I hear a lot of people screaming about how we need to legalize weed and tax it. We legalized tobacco and when we tax it people get butt-hurt about the taxes. Which is it?

3) Smokers cost nearly $200 billion per year in direct, indirect and productivity costs. I think this is a group that should be heavily taxed AND should be excluded from any federally funded healthcare.

4) Average cost for a pack of cigarettes is about $6. This is not an extraordinary amount. Consider that seeing a 3d movie is twice that amount; a 20 ounce breve, a glass of wine, 2 bottles of Fiji water, and many other things cost more than $6. $6 is not a whole hell of a lot, especially for something that causes so much damage.

5) 20% of Americans smoke. I didn't realize that 1 out of 5 people are that fucking stupid.

Let me reiterate that the tobacco tax is an OPTIONAL tax that need not be paid by anyone.

 

[spidey07]

3) Smokers cost nearly $200 billion per year in direct, indirect and productivity costs. I think this is a group that should be heavily taxed AND should be excluded from any federally funded healthcare.

Fine. Let's do it to the fatties as well. Maybe mandatory exercise for all citizens or else tax heavily and deny any healthcare.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Fine. Let's do it to the fatties as well. Maybe mandatory exercise for all citizens or else tax.

See the CVS thread. I fully support dropping fatties from healthcare since they take up nearly 25% of healthcare dollars and the cure for their ailment is to stop eating so much and exercise a little.

 

[nehalem256]

1) The article states the tax is regressive and will hit poor people especially hard because smokers tend to make less; almost half of the median wage of non-smokers. How can an OPTIONAL tax be regressive?
.

I wonder how many poor people throw away $6/day on a pack of cigarettes and then have to have the government pay for their health care and food stamps? :hmm:

 

[BoomerD]

Fine. Let's do it to the fatties as well. Maybe mandatory exercise for all citizens or else tax heavily and deny any healthcare.

Hell, while we're at it, let's start doing genetic testing and either heavily tax those with the genetic markers for diseases, or just allow insurance companies to drop them from coverage.
Jewish with the markers for Tay-Sachs Disease or Cystic Fibrosis? No insurance for you.

Black with the genetic markers for sickle-cell? No insurance coverage for you.

 

[nehalem256]

Hell, while we're at it, let's start doing genetic testing and either heavily tax those with the genetic markers for diseases, or just allow insurance companies to drop them from coverage.
Jewish with the markers for Tay-Sachs Disease or Cystic Fibrosis? No insurance for you.

Black with the genetic markers for sickle-cell? No insurance coverage for you.

So you see no difference between discrimination based on lifestyle choice and discrimination based on genetics? :hmm:

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

I wonder how many poor people throw away $6/day on a pack of cigarettes and then have to have the government pay for their health care and food stamps? :hmm:

Considering the median income for a smoker is right around the federal poverty level for a family of four, I would say a lot.

There is also a barter system. You buy food with foodstamps, I buy cigarettes, then we trade 50 cents on the dollar. I get $200 worth of food for $100 worth of smokes. You pay nothing.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Hell, while we're at it, let's start doing genetic testing and either heavily tax those with the genetic markers for diseases, or just allow insurance companies to drop them from coverage.
Jewish with the markers for Tay-Sachs Disease or Cystic Fibrosis? No insurance for you.

Black with the genetic markers for sickle-cell? No insurance coverage for you.

Slippery slope fallacy. Do you need me to Google that for you or are you capable of looking it up yourself this time?

Obesity and smoking are examples of "diseases" based on lifestyle choices. Even if you argue there is some genetics behind it, it still comes down to lifestyle. I've never met ANYONE who eats properly, eats the correct amount, exercises regularly and is still fat. Never. Not once.

Some people may have to work harder to lose weight, but hey, that is life. Some people have to work harder to learn simple things as well, like how to spot a simple logical fallacy, and those people just need to work harder at learning.

 

[soulcougher73]

So you see no difference between discrimination based on lifestyle choice and discrimination based on genetics? :hmm:

*Looks around* "Yup. Hell is pretty cold today"

Cant believe im agreeing with Nehalem on something. I feel icky now.

 

[Oldgamer]

I think all vice taxes are good. Want to drink alcohol, or smoke cigarettes, or smoke pot then you will need to pay the vice tax. There is documentation of proof that smoking went down significantly in this country when they hiked the taxes up on the cigarettes, and that means healthier people and less second hand smoke affecting non smokers.

 

[sunzt]

Fine. Let's do it to the fatties as well. Maybe mandatory exercise for all citizens or else tax heavily and deny any healthcare.

Mandatory exercise for all students in public schools would be a great start actually. In asian countries they get all the students out in the field in the morning for morning routine stretches and movement exercises. This not only gets them moving a bit each day, but also improves cognitive performance, and most importantly instills regular exercise as part of a regular daily routine.

That's part of the reason so many old asian people still do those exercises in their later years and live long healthy lives.

 

[homebrew2ny]

There are better ways to reduce the smoking population that to hit them in the wallet. Having said that, I think even the op is smart enough to understand a tax hike here is for the sole purpose to generate the government and/or state(s) more money, period. Further more, lets say that everyone quits smoking, or at the least a substantial amount of people, where do you think the government is going to make up the billions of dollars it stands to lose off the cigarette tax? What's next to fill the gap, Beer? Wine? Water? Air?

I do not smoke, but the way they tax those people is disgusting. Any rational citizen can see the inherent damage this can and will lead to for everyone once the government deems something YOU are doing as bad then decides to tax you for it excessively. To support such taxes is to cut your own throat, eventually....

 

[Texashiker]

Because smoking kills so many people, I think there should be a background check and waiting period.

 

[BoberFett]

I think all vice taxes are good. Want to drink alcohol, or smoke cigarettes, or smoke pot then you will need to pay the vice tax. There is documentation of proof that smoking went down significantly in this country when they hiked the taxes up on the cigarettes, and that means healthier people and less second hand smoke affecting non smokers.

And let me guess, vices are only things that you don't do?

 

[Matt1970]

I see he is keeping his pledge to not raise taxes on people making under $250K. Just as long as you don't purchase cigarettes and you do purchase health insurance.

 

[Matt1970]

I think all vice taxes are good. Want to drink alcohol, or smoke cigarettes, or smoke pot then you will need to pay the vice tax. There is documentation of proof that smoking went down significantly in this country when they hiked the taxes up on the cigarettes, and that means healthier people and less second hand smoke affecting non smokers.

The problem is where you draw the line on what is considered a vice.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

There are better ways to reduce the smoking population that to hit them in the wallet. Having said that, I think even the op is smart enough to understand a tax hike here is for the sole purpose to generate the government and/or state(s) more money, period. Further more, lets say that everyone quits smoking, or at the least a substantial amount of people, where do you think the government is going to make up the billions of dollars it stands to lose off the cigarette tax? What's next to fill the gap, Beer? Wine? Water? Air?

I do not smoke, but the way they tax those people is disgusting. Any rational citizen can see the inherent damage this can and will lead to for everyone once the government deems something YOU are doing as bad then decides to tax you for it excessively. To support such taxes is to cut your own throat, eventually....

Show us a better way to reduce smoking population. It has been proven that raising taxes reduces smokers, especially young smokers because they can't afford it.

You didn't address any of my points, really. Vice taxes exist for a reason. Smokers, alcoholics...they tend to cost society more than those of us who avoid them.

Please note that annual excise taxes on cigarettes only raises $7 billion annually
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/weekinreview/31saul.html?_r=0
Smokers cost us nearly $200 BILLION annually. Get rid of all the smokers and we would see a savings of about $193 billion dollars each year.

Holy fuck. I am a fucking genius. I'm just crushing it with all of my common sense and shit.

 

[Jaskalas]

I see he is keeping his pledge to not raise taxes on people making under $250K. Just as long as you don't purchase cigarettes and you do purchase health insurance.

Obama already passed a sin tax in 2009. Guess we need to increase sin taxes every 4 years.

 

[Oldgamer]

Because smoking kills so many people, I think there should be a background check and waiting period.

LOL, boy are we bitter.."rolls eyes"

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

The problem is where you draw the line on what is considered a vice.

I think we can narrow it down a little bit.

Anything that is a public health threat that costs hundreds of billions of dollars a year.
Anything that is done for pleasure but at a cost to society.

How the fuck are we supposed to legalize and tax MJ when we have people bitching about the taxes they pay on cigarettes? This is fucking insane. Nobody in this country can get their shit together and make up their mind on anything.

$1/pack tax? That is nothing considering the cost of a pack of gum or a soda anymore.

Maybe we should also work on limiting how many cigarettes come in a pack. Let's keep the $1/pack tax, but limit cigarette packs to no more than 5 cigs.

 

[Oldgamer]

The problem is where you draw the line on what is considered a vice.

LOL true, since the definition of the word vice means "Immoral or wicked behavior." Drinking, smoking, doing drugs, and having paid sex would all be considered a vice. But if society changes with regard to morals then new definitions of vice's will certainly pop up.

 

[Texashiker]

LOL, boy are we bitter.."rolls eyes"

As long as cancer sticks can be taxed and are a source of revenue, who cares how many people die.

If bullets and guns were taxed like tobacco, gun control would not even be talked about.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I could care less, tax the hell out of cigarettes.

However, don't stop there. Charge a tax of $1.00 per 6 pack of beer, 1 liter of wine, or 1 pint of liquor.

 

[Jaskalas]

Maybe we should also work on limiting how many cigarettes come in a pack. Let's keep the $1/pack tax, but limit cigarette packs to no more than 5 cigs.

The sad part is you believe yourself to live in a dictatorial tyranny where such mandates are not only plausible, but legal. Saddest truth is that you'd be correct.

We should rename our President Kim Jong-Obama.

 

[chucky2]

I wonder how many poor people throw away $6/day on a pack of cigarettes and then have to have the government pay for their health care and food stamps? :hmm:

Shit tons. Back when my dad was smoking, you cannot imagine how many times I've seen someone buy cigs and then whip out the Links card to buy Pepsi and Cheetos. I have not seen someone buy cigs yet with Links, but, I haven't been going to places lately where the cig trade is large. Most people I know that smoke get out of Crook Co. whenever possible and buy their cigs in non-Crook Co. locations.

Chuck