Obama wants Afghan war over in 3 years

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MovingTarget

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
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Although part of me thinks that he wants it over with in time for the reelection (a definite political bonus), I'm glad that he seems to be willing to agree to a timetable. I do support the war in Afghanistan, but we can't stay there indefinitely. If we don't draw a line somewhere, we will end up making the same mistake as the soviets. By then it won't be a matter of winning the war, but whether a win is even worth it anymore.
 
evident

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,010
625
126
MovingTarget said:
Although part of me thinks that he wants it over with in time for the reelection (a definite political bonus), I'm glad that he seems to be willing to agree to a timetable. I do support the war in Afghanistan, but we can't stay there indefinitely. If we don't draw a line somewhere, we will end up making the same mistake as the soviets. By then it won't be a matter of winning the war, but whether a win is even worth it anymore.
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i agree w/ this. Its gotta be pretty tough to rebuild infrastructure and educate a country's people, especially w/ insurgents always ready to blow shit up. hopefully they can do it by then. but imo looks like this announcement means he's gambling his re-election based on the progress in afghanistan
 
G

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Just in time for the 2012 election cycle. Is there anything these politicians do that doesnt include getting re-elected?

Anyways it is a cute idea but he just sent in 30,000 more troops. This will be like Gitmo. Wishful thinking,
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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On one hand, there is a song with lyrics that point out, "you can't always get what you want."

On the other hand, we have been doing exactly the wrong things in Afghanistan and getting bad outcomes as a result.

And if Obama can institute a much better strategy, he could get a dramatic improvement in less than three years. Face the facts, we are trying to give the Afghan people a turd of a government and then wonder why they prefer the Taliban
version. It does not mean they like the Taliban version, it simply means Nato really stinks if it can't offer better than the Taliban.

Yet on that very choice, the Taliban has quietly locked up 85% of Afghanistan and are the defacto government.
 
A

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Genx87 said:
Just in time for the 2012 election cycle. Is there anything these politicians do that doesnt include getting re-elected?

Anyways it is a cute idea but he just sent in 30,000 more troops. This will be like Gitmo. Wishful thinking,
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You mean when Bush altered the homeland security warnings to help him get reelected for a second term?
 
Y

yuppiejr

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2002
1,317
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0
Ausm said:
Your comparing Obama to the asshole who flushed trillions of dollars down the shitter in Iraq and left Afghanistan stagnant for the last 7 years of his presidency? :eek:
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Sounds accurate to me, as far as I can tell after the first year Obama is basically GWB with a darker complexion and D after his name. Makes better speeches though, I'll give you that.
 
J

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Obama is one crafty motherfucker. I've been saying all along in 2012 his ploy to get re-elected is to pull all troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq and declare victory.
 
Red Dawn

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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IMO it's a waste of lives and money as the Taliban can just go to Shitasta..err..Pakistan and wait us out and when we leave go back on the attack. It seems the only group in Afghanistan who's determined enough to change things are the Taliban, the rest are only interested in living in peace or lining their pockets.
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Face the facts, if Obama continues GWB type policy in Afghanistan, he is going to keep getting GWB type results.

The number of extra troops sent in is almost irrelevant because US military doctrine states we need 620,000 troops to run a credible text book military occupation in Afghanistan. No matter what options Obama chooses tonight, Nato will be left way way way too short of enough troops. And given the corrupt state of the Afghan army and police, they are not any additive factor in the equation, and as such, they are worse than useless.

Obama is going to have to come up with a almost brilliant and innovative plan to start winning in Afghanistan, and I for one, will reserve comment until he lays it out in his press conference to the American people. And even then, that is not the point, because the arbiter of results will be the Afghan people. And its the Afghan people who will collectively decide to buy it or reject it by their actions.
 
theflyingpig

theflyingpig

Banned
Mar 9, 2008
5,616
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What a foolish plan. In three years, we will leave, and the Taliban will take over. In the mean time we will spend billions of dollars and sacrifice thousands of lives. The killing will continue. Nothing will change. Everyone knows this.
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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I think Red Dawn somewhat misses the point in saying, "It seems the only group in Afghanistan who's determined enough to change things are the Taliban, the rest are only interested in living in peace or lining their pockets."

Because the Taliban and the number of people prospering by lining their pockets are only a tiny tiny part of the Afghan population. Its not that the rest are interested on only living in peace, its a matter of life threatening survival during a time of living under a totally dysfunctional government. Their quality of life stinks by any measure.
And the Nato occupation has only made their quality of life much worse with no visible hope of improvement.

If the Obama plan can "SHOW" the Afghan people that visible hope of improvement, then there is a hope of salvaging
Afghanistan.
 
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StageLeft

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
If he can end it and leave the country in a mildly rehabilitated state, it would be a good success. Good luck.
 
Wreckage

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
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Ausm said:
Your comparing Obama to the asshole who flushed trillions of dollars down the shitter in Iraq and left Afghanistan stagnant for the last 7 years of his presidency? :eek:
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Actually I was more comparing the event. My worry is that in 3 years the war will be declared over, even if it is not.
 
Doc Savage Fan

Doc Savage Fan

Lifer
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Red Dawn said:
IMO it's a waste of lives and money as the Taliban can just go to Shitasta..err..Pakistan and wait us out and when we leave go back on the attack. It seems the only group in Afghanistan who's determined enough to change things are the Taliban, the rest are only interested in living in peace or lining their pockets.
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Totally agree. Meanwhile our young men and women die...and for what?
 
Red Dawn

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Doc Savage Fan said:
Totally agree. Meanwhile our young men and women die...and for what?
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Politics. f he were to pull out tomorrow he'd be branded a coward and defeatist by those on the Right and in todays political atmosphere it would resonate with the public. Unfortunately we haven't one political leader in either party, well besides Ron Paul, who'd be courageous enough to do the right thing and get the fuck out of that hellhole.
 
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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
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Red Dawn said:
Politics. f he were to pull out tomorrow he'd be branded a coward and defeatist by those on the Right and in todays political atmosphere it would resonate with the public. Unfortunately we haven't one political leader in either party, well besides Ron Paul, who'd be courageous enough to do the courageous and right thing and get the fuck out of that hellhole.
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:thumbsup;

Bob Herbert's kinda been on my shitlist ever since the democratic primaries, but I really dug his column today about the war in Afghanistan.

A Tragic Mistake
 
kylebisme

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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The title should be "Or military-industrial complex wants perpetual war, and tricked Obama into another 3 years in Afghanistan". If Obama actual wanted us to do some real good in Afghanistan, he'd either round up ten times the 30,000 troops to send over there he is, or he'd come to terms with the fact that we aren't dedicating nearly enough resources necessary to reasonably expect to accomplish the stated goal.
 
nobodyknows

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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It would be nice to just leave, but it's a little more complicated then just changing motel rooms.
 
R

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Lemon law said:
I think Red Dawn somewhat misses the point in saying, "It seems the only group in Afghanistan who's determined enough to change things are the Taliban, the rest are only interested in living in peace or lining their pockets."

Because the Taliban and the number of people prospering by lining their pockets are only a tiny tiny part of the Afghan population. Its not that the rest are interested on only living in peace, its a matter of life threatening survival during a time of living under a totally dysfunctional government. Their quality of life stinks by any measure.
And the Nato occupation has only made their quality of life much worse with no visible hope of improvement.

If the Obama plan can "SHOW" the Afghan people that visible hope of improvement, then there is a hope of salvaging
Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Heh well maybe we should just ship Obama to Afghan and use that silver tongue of his to give Afghan people hope.

As far as his "strategy", it will be a complete failure because it does not address the core problem, the corrupt, weak and useless Karzai Administration. No matter how many places the US troop secures, the government is gonna lose it later on. No matter how many Taliban fighters the US troop kills, the goverment is gonna push more people to join Taliban with their corruption.

There are only two viable options in Afghan, either withdraw 100% and leave the mess to Karzai Admin or take control of the Afghan government and fight the war on both political and military fronts with 100% control. Obama choose the middle of the road to try and please everyone that will only end up wasting American money and American life.
 
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