Obama to sign executive order on Immigration Reform

[Bird222]

I know a hard working family that has been in the USA for at least 5 years and they want to pay their taxes and other such things.

My question is if they come out of "hiding" now can the Republicans do anything now or in the future that could backfire for them and get them deported? What can the Republicans do if anything to stop this?

I think they can, because my understanding is this would only be in effect while Obama is president. If I was an immigrant, why would I expose myself when in two years I could be deported. This is also why I don't really think this is going to amount to much but republicans continue to scream about 5 million people getting amnesty.

 

[K1052]

I know a hard working family that has been in the USA for at least 5 years and they want to pay their taxes and other such things.

My question is if they come out of "hiding" now can the Republicans do anything now or in the future that could backfire for them and get them deported? What can the Republicans do if anything to stop this?

A Republican president could reverse Obama's actions. I haven't seen anything that supports a realistic chance that there is a legal (court) option for the GOP to use against these actions. There are no real consequences that the GOP can bring to bear at this point that wouldn't involve a lot of unpopular collateral damage.

That said I think it is a very unlikely outcome that a Republican president would reverse. If a candidate pledged to do so during the election that basically kisses off the entire (growing) latino vote again and gives up any real shot at the White House. Even keeping mum on it wouldn't be enough. From a political perspective this whole thing is bad for the future of the GOP. The PR they're racking up between trying to take down Obamacare and now this is going to be a serious disadvantage in the next electoral cycle which doesn't favor them. They're too busy fighting Obama at every turn to play any sort of long game for the hearts and minds of the electorate while Obama has the luxury of delivering (in some small way) on some of the promises he's made while politically painting the GOP into a corner.

 

[OrByte]

So is blood flowing in the streets?

Kentucky?

Texas?

Arkansas?

Hello? are you guys still out there? did you survive the Obamacolypse?

 

[werepossum]

OK, fair enough - I see where you're coming from. But this still doesn't explain my original point. If security + deportation is the only thing the right wants, why isn't the house trying to do anything about it? That's what infuriates me - why maintain the status quo? There is never going to be a point (IMO) where there is enough support in all three chambers for security + deportation-only approach. In your opinion, pragmatically, what should be done?

See Fern's point linked below. House Republicans face two problems. First, there will never be enough support to get what they want done; therefore the status quo is the best they can realistically hope for.

Second, the Republican elite (exactly like the Democrat elite) is concerned first and foremost with retaining power, and they fear losing Hispanic votes knowing that Hispanics are now our largest minority and reasonably quickly will be the majority.

Put those things together and you have gridlock even within the GOP. Republicans could have every single seat in both chambers and be unable to find policy on which they could agree.

booshit don't agree with werepossum.

he is using false premises all over his argument.

Where does it say that ALL dems want America to be mexico and all Republicans are the only friggin REAL PATRIOTS protecting american jobs and freedoms herdeherhurrhurr..

don't give him that moral highground...thats BS.

I wouldn't make it quite that clear cut. Plenty of Dems don't want to be overrun with illegals. (Ask a Cherokee or Sioux or Navaho how well that worked out for them - if you can find one.) Plenty of Pubbies DO want the illegals, for votes (Hispanics tend to be socially conservative) or labor (they tend to work their asses off for less money than Americans would demand to do the same job, much less the same work.) Overall though there are a lot more Democrats than Republicans who want the country turned Hispanic, if only for political gain.

Where the parties differ is in their respective ruling elites. Democrat elites know they have the Hispanic vote locked by redistribution and giveaways (people crossing the desert aren't doing so because they have high value skills) and because they believe that making America less white, less traditional, and more socialist are all worthy goals. Republican elites want the vote and the cheap labor and the social conservatism, but recognize that their base is much more anti-illegal.

As I've pointed out before, Republicans love America as they believe it exists, Democrats hate America as they believe it exists but love what they believe they can fundamentally transform it into if they can only get enough power.

I realize that all that is wasted on a stereotypical proggie who believes himself to be the lone brilliant individual surrounded by idiots, but someone else might find it interesting.

The "system" doesn't allow it, but the system isn't enforced.

The repubs problem is that they are of two schools:

1. One school demands border security

2. The other school is scared they'll never get Hispanic votes and wants amnesty (without calling it such).

School #1 and #2 don't mix well, or at all.

Fern

Exactly. The second school also sees Hispanics' social conservatism.

Frankly, to me that's the worst combination of all, socialist redistribution combined with social conservatism.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Can someone explain to me why people support this and what benefits it has for our country?

Is there an unbiased report, anywhere, with the projected impacts on the economy?

 

[rpanic]

I ask the question again, can the Republicans stop this? Could things be reversed in the future?

No not without a real fight, I think our country is to divided to get anything done at this point especially on this. Both parties are touting their moral high ground, but its really about dividing Americans. This cycle gets repeated throughout history.

 

[fskimospy]

I ask the question again, can the Republicans stop this? Could things be reversed in the future?

No, the Republicans cannot stop this. Obama is acting within authority already granted to him by existing statutes. There's really very little disagreement in the legal community as to whether or not he has the power to do this.

But yes, a Republican president could easily reverse this.

 

[OrByte]

As I've pointed out before, Republicans love America as they believe it exists, Democrats hate America as they believe it exists but love what they believe they can fundamentally transform it into if they can only get enough power.

oh my gosh...you used to be less of a shill bud. I can't believe you just typed that.

Yeah, republicans aren't into the business of politics for getting more power... lol!

in my own..."brilliant" proggie way if I could just tweak your slanted message to say:

both parties love America, and both parties want to fundamentally transform it to fit their view of a BETTER America...therefore both want what ever power is needed to reach those goals. Don't be fooled into thinking otherwise.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

He could have easily said...give me a bipartisan bill by the end of March or I'll use my phone and pen. Obama should have used the threat of an EO as leverage...instead he set the stage for the last 2 years of his presidency. History will not be kind to this man.

 

[werepossum]

According to the "fact sheet" on the Whitehouse website, the President is proposing to streamline processing of green cards for high skill workers. The fact sheet uses the term "expanding work authorization for..." . Again, without the text of the executive order it is difficult to see what he is actually doing.

Obviously an oversight. lol

Why would middle class get squeezed if illegals are taking min wage jobs?

It's simply not true that illegals only take minimum wage jobs. In my home town there is a chair factory that used to offer very good blue collar jobs IF one worked one's ass off. Pay was per piece, and lots of people with no college (many times no high school diploma) made well above Tennessee's median wage. Gradually those jobs were shifted to illegals who are paid around $10, no or very minimal benefits. Managers lost jobs because the main qualification is now fluency in Spanish; a basic mastery won't work because many of the illegals are functionally illiterate and many speak dialects not terribly similar to classroom Spanish.

When I first began doing AEC engineering, drywallers earned almost as much as electricians of sheet metal workers. However, drywallers are not required to be licensed and have no strong trade union presence. Now drywallers make roughly half what electricians earn - still at least half again the minimum wage, but far below what they used to earn - and are heavily illegal. Again, managers are increasingly being replaced with legal first or second generation Hispanics to get the required language skills.

Meat packing plants around the area have undergone similar transformations. So have carpet mills. It's also happening in more skilled trades - several times I've had trouble getting through permitting only to be told it's because of our electrical or mechanical contractor who has one journeyman and a host of illegals. Wages are way down, as is quality; profits are way up. All these jobs were solidly middle class. The white and black and brown and yellow Americans displaced by the illegals did not disappear; many went back to school to earn degrees and job skills they needed to qualify for white collar jobs or highly technical blue collar jobs or blue collar jobs with strong trade union protection and certification requirements, so that they can once again earn a wage similar to what they used to earn. Thus the supply of labor is increased far up into the middle class. Americans don't simply disappear just because an illegal takes the job they used to work.

Reading around a bit it looks like there isn't going to be an executive order issued to implement the President's policy announcement. This will make it more difficult for opponents of the policy to figure out where any legitimate legal challenges might lay. Opponents will have to look for changes in actions, agency by agency, and make a case for the changes being unlawful. Opponents will have to do this for each action they deem unlawful. This will require a bunch of work, lots of time, and the ability to establish standing. In other words, by the time a challenge is perfected and brought to court, President Obama's term will be over. Working on legislation might be a better use of time.

Agreed, Obama did it the smart way. (Politically, not for the country.) Even if the Pubbies were united, his concerted and widespread actions will be hard to fight legislatively.

 

[boomerang]

In your opinion, should presidents have the power to make executive orders?

In my opinion they should be very limited in scope. If that proves too difficult to regulate, and we already know that it is, then the power should be curtailed by Congress. The job of the executive branch is to ensure that the laws passed by Congress are enforced. Not create law. if any given President has something he or she wants to accomplish, it should be done through a process of negotiation and compromise with the representatives of the people of the nation as our government was originally designed. We can't entertain the tantrums of Presidents who exhibit childlike behavior when they can't get their way or when things aren't moving fast enough for their liking. The nation does not serve the President, the President serves the nation.

A society becomes one of lawlessness not overnight but over time. Ignore this trespass ignore that trespass and over time the usurpation's of the law get a little greater and a little greater until what we had in the beginning is no longer even recognizable. At what point do the people of the nation decide they have had enough? Perhaps never. But we are the masters of our own destinies, make no mistake about that. At some point we say stop, that's enough or we seal our fates.

Congress is our first line of defense. Will they step up to the plate? More than likely we will get some milquetoast response that passes the buck to the SCOTUS. Congress must be elected but the SCOTUS is appointed. Best to just pass the buck and retain the ability to be more nimble if the political winds change direction.

So, are we fucked? Fortunately, we're still able to decide that one for ourselves. But majority rule is dead. Do we bury it or attempt one last chance at resurrection?

 

[fskimospy]

In my opinion they should be very limited in scope. If that proves too difficult to regulate, and we already know that it is, then the power should be curtailed by Congress. The job of the executive branch is to ensure that the laws passed by Congress are enforced. Not create law. if any given President has something he or she wants to accomplish, it should be done through a process of negotiation and compromise with the representatives of the people of the nation as our government was originally designed. We can't entertain the tantrums of Presidents who exhibit childlike behavior when they can't get their way or when things aren't moving fast enough for their liking. The nation does not serve the President, the President serves the nation.

A society becomes one of lawlessness not overnight but over time. Ignore this trespass ignore that trespass and over time the usurpation's of the law get a little greater and a little greater until what we had in the beginning is no longer even recognizable. At what point do the people of the nation decide they have had enough? Perhaps never. But we are the masters of our own destinies, make no mistake about that. At some point we say stop, that's enough or we seal our fates.

Congress is our first line of defense. Will they step up to the plate? More than likely we will get some milquetoast response that passes the buck to the SCOTUS. Congress must be elected but the SCOTUS is appointed. Best to just pass the buck and retain the ability to be more nimble if the political winds change direction.

So, are we fucked? Fortunately, we're still able to decide that one for ourselves. But majority rule is dead. Do we bury it or attempt one last chance at resurrection?

The power to make executive orders cannot be regulated by Congress. That would be unconstitutional.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I know a hard working family that has been in the USA for at least 5 years and they want to pay their taxes and other such things.

My question is if they come out of "hiding" now can the Republicans do anything now or in the future that could backfire for them and get them deported? What can the Republicans do if anything to stop this?

Illegal is ILLEGAL

Deport

why should they be excused. My mother had to win a LOTTERY and do it the right way.....no easy/free tickets.

 

[fskimospy]

He could have easily said...give me a bipartisan bill by the end of March or I'll use my phone and pen. Obama should have used the threat of an EO as leverage...instead he set the stage for the last 2 years of his presidency. History will not be kind to this man.

You realize that he's been saying that for years, right? You realize a bipartisan bill was actually made by the Senate and the House opposed it so much they didn't even bother to hold a vote, right?

You know as well as I do that the Republicans have no intention of passing a bipartisan immigration bill. The House has had one sitting in front of it for a very long time now. They never even bothered to reply, pass their own bill, or start a conference committee.

Hell, Boehner came straight out and said that even if Obama did defer action he wouldn't even promise a vote in the House on immigration, much less a bill. But yeah I'm sure if we just waited another six months then they would change their mind.

It's simple. The House and Obama are much too far apart to agree on new immigration legislation, but in this case Obama holds most of the cards. If House Republicans aren't willing to come to the table and get some of the things they want then Obama can simply act within current laws and get much of what he wants and give them nothing.

Like I said, Republicans are now freaking out because Obama has started to act ever so slightly more like they have been acting for years now. Maybe they will eventually start to see why that wasn't a good idea?

 

[hal2kilo]

A Republican president could reverse Obama's actions. I haven't seen anything that supports a realistic chance that there is a legal (court) option for the GOP to use against these actions. There are no real consequences that the GOP can bring to bear at this point that wouldn't involve a lot of unpopular collateral damage.

That said I think it is a very unlikely outcome that a Republican president would reverse. If a candidate pledged to do so during the election that basically kisses off the entire (growing) latino vote again and gives up any real shot at the White House. Even keeping mum on it wouldn't be enough. From a political perspective this whole thing is bad for the future of the GOP. The PR they're racking up between trying to take down Obamacare and now this is going to be a serious disadvantage in the next electoral cycle which doesn't favor them. They're too busy fighting Obama at every turn to play any sort of long game for the hearts and minds of the electorate while Obama has the luxury of delivering (in some small way) on some of the promises he's made while politically painting the GOP into a corner.

You mean they would have to come up with some ideas, plans for the future without having a target to bash at daily?

 

[IGBT]

..and they will go to the head of the line in front of you and your kids..you are all soo screwed. A fact sheet being circulated by the White House shows that President Barack Obama’s planned executive amnesty will grant amnesty to 5 million or more illegal aliens, create a backdoor pathway to citizenship for those amnestied illegal aliens, and massively expand high-tech foreign worker programs to help tech companies—which will hurt Americans’ wages.

 

[chucky2]

See Fern's point linked below. House Republicans face two problems. First, there will never be enough support to get what they want done; therefore the status quo is the best they can realistically hope for.

Second, the Republican elite (exactly like the Democrat elite) is concerned first and foremost with retaining power, and they fear losing Hispanic votes knowing that Hispanics are now our largest minority and reasonably quickly will be the majority.

Put those things together and you have gridlock even within the GOP. Republicans could have every single seat in both chambers and be unable to find policy on which they could agree.


I wouldn't make it quite that clear cut. Plenty of Dems don't want to be overrun with illegals. (Ask a Cherokee or Sioux or Navaho how well that worked out for them - if you can find one.) Plenty of Pubbies DO want the illegals, for votes (Hispanics tend to be socially conservative) or labor (they tend to work their asses off for less money than Americans would demand to do the same job, much less the same work.) Overall though there are a lot more Democrats than Republicans who want the country turned Hispanic, if only for political gain.

Where the parties differ is in their respective ruling elites. Democrat elites know they have the Hispanic vote locked by redistribution and giveaways (people crossing the desert aren't doing so because they have high value skills) and because they believe that making America less white, less traditional, and more socialist are all worthy goals. Republican elites want the vote and the cheap labor and the social conservatism, but recognize that their base is much more anti-illegal.

As I've pointed out before, Republicans love America as they believe it exists, Democrats hate America as they believe it exists but love what they believe they can fundamentally transform it into if they can only get enough power.

I realize that all that is wasted on a stereotypical proggie who believes himself to be the lone brilliant individual surrounded by idiots, but someone else might find it interesting.


Exactly. The second school also sees Hispanics' social conservatism.

Frankly, to me that's the worst combination of all, socialist redistribution combined with social conservatism.

Infinite truth post of the year.

 

[OrByte]

I also would argue against the idea that Democrats WANT a more hispanic America.

Thats like saying ONLY Democrats decided a long long time ago to put the USA on top of South America in the hopes that all of those indigenous people south of the USA would want to come up here to live the fat life with the rest of us anglos.

What a stupid idea. The Democrats don't need NOR want a more hispanic America...I wouldn't mind some more of those peaceful middle easterns though. I'm kidding!

As a human person (Democrat/Republican/Whatever) I recognize that the USA will always be a destination for people from all over the world..because they see greater opportunity here as opposed to whatever country they live in. Period.

If I was an alien from outer space dropped into the middle of a South America (PICK ANY) COUNTRY I would make my way to the US...more often than not. Why you ask?

because the USA is a BETTER COUNTRY.

It doesn't have to do with politics...it has to do with everything BUT politics.

If I'm a Democrat, I'm looking for the best possible way to manage those immigrants...those that want to be here, and those that aren't causing any trouble. I'm also looking for a way to use my limited resources to move out those that cause trouble. Key term, limited resources.

If I'm republican, I don't know what I want to do with people coming to the country. All I hear is "Secure the borders" whatever the F that means.

There is waaaay too much thought here being filtered through stupid political lenses, take off those glasses and look at this from a resource perspective. The US has only so much $, people, and materials to handle an overburdened immigration system...what do you do? And why hasn't our Government done anything?

 

[OrByte]

He could have easily said...give me a bipartisan bill by the end of March or I'll use my phone and pen. Obama should have used the threat of an EO as leverage...instead he set the stage for the last 2 years of his presidency. History will not be kind to this man.

Or

he could have taken action...pissed off the political opposition and force some action to come out of congress..

and if there is no action out of congress, his EO is in place and is making history.

In essence, I think he is doing exactly what you are saying he should have done. Minus the empty threat...

Edit: I think it is enormously telling that this happened AFTER Republicans gained control of Senate and HOR...nevermind any other factor.

The response/reaction now is 100% controlled by a Republican congress

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You realize that he's been saying that for years, right? You realize a bipartisan bill was actually made by the Senate and the House opposed it so much they didn't even bother to hold a vote, right?

You call a 68-32 vote (13 of 45 Republicans) to be bipartisan? Lol...I'll try to remember this in our future discussions. And Reid never sent that immigration bill to the House, so they never had the opportunity to vote on it...you realize that, right?

 

[Jhhnn]

See Fern's point linked below. House Republicans face two problems. First, there will never be enough support to get what they want done; therefore the status quo is the best they can realistically hope for.

Obfuscational lameness. What, *exactly*, have HOR Repubs proposed & where's the funding to do it?

Oh, uhh, err, why there's no point in laying it out because it wouldn't pass anyway, right?

More lameness. Repubs got nothing other than a pander point for their nativist base, and they sure as Hell don't want to let go of that. It's not that they can't change it, but rather that they don't want to & will do their best to blame somebody else for it being the way it is.

With Repubs taking over both houses of Congress, even the dimmest bulbs will begin to wonder why they don't make concrete proposals that have a prayer of finding Executive approval, which puts them in a real quandry- how to go nowhere & blame Obama at the same time.

 

[K1052]

You call a 68-32 vote (13 of 45 Republicans) to be bipartisan? Lol...I'll try to remember this in our future discussions. And Reid never sent that immigration bill to the House, so they never had the opportunity to vote on it...you realize that, right?

The House had it's own version with a couple major difference from the Senate bill (which technically the House cannot vote on directly). Those differences were key items that secured the required votes in the Senate. Knowing that the House bill would never pass the Senate the Speaker never brought it up for a vote. The fact remains that the GOP cannot or will not muster it's caucus in the House to pass any meaningful immigration reform due to internal party divisions.

 

[theeedude]

Obama should just keep doing what he's doing. GOP is less than useless.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Obama should just keep doing what he's doing. GOP is less than useless.

Yea and republicans are not.

our entire government is useless.....

 

[theeedude]

Yea and republicans are not.

our entire government is useless.....

Agreed, both GOP and republicans are useless. Didn't mean to pick sides