Obama to sign executive order on Immigration Reform

[fskimospy]

Oh, lame excuse. So we will just give amnesty to even more ILLEGALS again after we tried that a few times before? (note that I never advocate massive of hunt them down, round them up, and deport ALL ILLEGALS as some of the posters claimed)

Something about do the same thing over and over again and expect different result(s) = crazy/stupid/nut?

By "lame excuse" you mean "reality".

 

[Svnla]

By "lame excuse" you mean "reality".

So in your reality, just let them ILLEGALS breaking the law and then let them demand amnesty and then grant them what they demand, right?

Then why even bother to have immigration law? Just let everyone in and then give amnesty to all. Look at how much money and effort we will save!!! Wheeeeeee.

Why even bother to have border and guards to check everyone to come in the US? In reality, bad people will get in anyway. Goodness.

 

[BoomerD]

I love this analogy...

Recently large demonstrations have taken place
across the country protesting the fact that Congress
is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own
borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and,
once here, to stay indefinitely.


Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.

But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry
and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do.

I'm hard-working and honest
(except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family

(my husband will do all of your yard work because
he is also hard-working and honest, except for that
breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends

who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my
RIGHT to be there.


It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do,

and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep,

and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused

of being cold.


Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can
communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?!

Only in America !!

 

[fskimospy]

So in your reality, just let them ILLEGALS breaking the law and then let them demand amnesty and then grant them what they demand, right?

Then why even bother to have immigration law? Just let everyone in and then give amnesty to all. Look at how much money and effort we will save!!! Wheeeeeee.

Why even bother to have border and guards to check everyone to come in the US? In reality, bad people will get in anyway. Goodness.

This is just ranting.

I'm sure you realize that without unlimited resources you cannot enforce the law equally everywhere. This is why every person jaywalking doesn't get a ticket even though it is illegal. Presumably you wouldn't argue that because we can't ticket every jaywalker that we should do away with all laws, correct? If so, then you understand my position.

 

[nixium]

This is just ranting.

I'm sure you realize that without unlimited resources you cannot enforce the law equally everywhere. This is why every person jaywalking doesn't get a ticket even though it is illegal. Presumably you wouldn't argue that because we can't ticket every jaywalker that we should do away with all laws, correct? If so, then you understand my position.

What about legal immigrants who have been waiting forever following all the rules and paying a bunch of $$ in fees? Currently, all the EOs have been talking about are providing work permits to illegals, while nothing solid about legal immigrants. Why should we even bother following the rules if there aren't any enforced, to the point you actually get rewarded for not following them?

In order to immigrate via employment, you have to prove that you aren't taking the job of a citizen, a process that takes a year plus. Then you wait patiently till your visa number gets approved. In the meantime, you have to follow the rules of your temporary visa, renewing it every few years. You can't start your own company, do any part time work, and have to stick to your industry.

Yet if you came here illegally... you get a work permit with NO restrictions.

How is this fair?

 

[nixium]

This is just ranting.

I'm sure you realize that without unlimited resources you cannot enforce the law equally everywhere. This is why every person jaywalking doesn't get a ticket even though it is illegal. Presumably you wouldn't argue that because we can't ticket every jaywalker that we should do away with all laws, correct? If so, then you understand my position.

This is equivalent to not ticketing a jaywalker, but giving them a permit to jaywalk anytime they want and in any place. I'm not even going to start how you're trying to encapsulate a matter as complex as immigration to something like jaywalking.

 

[ivwshane]

I pointed out how he ignored the law.

You just need to ignore the facts to continue your ranting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_Action_for_Childhood_Arrivals

Did you even read your link?

Again, when resources are limited the president has the authority to prioritize where those resources go. You want to know how to combat that? Congress can pass a budget that insures there are enough resources so things don't have to be prioritized.

Let me know when you are ready for your next civics lesson

 

[ivwshane]

This is equivalent to not ticketing a jaywalker, but giving them a permit to jaywalk anytime they want and in any place. I'm not even going to start how you're trying to encapsulate a matter as complex as immigration to something like jaywalking.

No it's not. Just because you are ignorant of what's really happening doesn't mean whatever bullshit you make up is true.

Feel free to read up on the link Michael1989 posted to verify your wrongness.

 

[fskimospy]

This is equivalent to not ticketing a jaywalker, but giving them a permit to jaywalk anytime they want and in any place. I'm not even going to start how you're trying to encapsulate a matter as complex as immigration to something like jaywalking.

I'm in no way trying to encapsulate a matter as complex as immigration to something like jaywalking. I was using it as an example of prioritized enforcement.

Your example of a free jaywalking permits is in no way what's going on either.

 

[BoomerD]

http://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration-is-a-crime

The illegal alien population is composed of those who illegally enter the country (referred to as "entry without inspection — EWI") in violation of the immigration law, and others enter legally and then stay illegally (referred to as overstayers). The immigration authorities currently estimate that two-thirds to three-fifths of all illegal immigrants are EWIs and the remainder is overstayers. Both types of illegal immigrants are deportable under Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a)(1)(B) which says: "Any alien who is present in the United States in violation of this Act or any other law of the United States is deportable."

Time to enforce the laws on the books.

 

[nixium]

No it's not. Just because you are ignorant of what's really happening doesn't mean whatever bullshit you make up is true.

Feel free to read up on the link Michael1989 posted to verify your wrongness.

I've been through the immigration system. What's your claim on how you understand matters better? Sipping overpriced latte in some hipster coffee bar while working on your macbook?

 

[nixium]

I'm in no way trying to encapsulate a matter as complex as immigration to something like jaywalking. I was using it as an example of prioritized enforcement.

Your example of a free jaywalking permits is in no way what's going on either.

Prioritized enforcement is one thing, but what about giving away employment authorization, something that's very difficult for legal immigrants? I also noticed you refused to address my fairness point. I ask you again. How is this fair to someone waiting legally?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Prioritized enforcement is one thing, but what about giving away employment authorization, something that's very difficult for legal immigrants? I also noticed you refused to address my fairness point. I ask you again. How is this fair to someone waiting legally?

Get ready for some fancy dancing to avoid the issues you mentioned because there is no way any rational person could justify this without running into ethical and moral dilemmas that would call into question their view on the matter that supports amnesty.

 

[ivwshane]

Prioritized enforcement is one thing, but what about giving away employment authorization, something that's very difficult for legal immigrants? I also noticed you refused to address my fairness point. I ask you again. How is this fair to someone waiting legally?

So you support the senate bill?

 

[BoomerD]

Prioritized enforcement is one thing, but what about giving away employment authorization, something that's very difficult for legal immigrants? I also noticed you refused to address my fairness point. I ask you again. How is this fair to someone waiting legally?

Fair? WTF? Show me in the US Constitution where it says laws have to be enforced fairly...

(but I DO agree with you...why should someone who has been waiting and "playing the game" get lower priority than someone who has just said, "Fuck this" and entered the country illegally?

 

[Svnla]

This is just ranting.

I'm sure you realize that without unlimited resources you cannot enforce the law equally everywhere. This is why every person jaywalking doesn't get a ticket even though it is illegal. Presumably you wouldn't argue that because we can't ticket every jaywalker that we should do away with all laws, correct? If so, then you understand my position.

Nice try to spin but it ain't working. Not even sputtering.

Again, I am not asking for the world, I am asking the government to enforce CURRENT immigration law and STOP giving amnesty to ILLEGALS again. That's my position. I am not asking to mistreat ILLEGALS or spend a fortune to hunt/lock up/deport them. No job, no housing, no citizenship , no benefits, nothing to gain = no future for ILLEGALS = they would leave. Otherwise, we WILL (not if) have more ILLEGALS in the future because reward bad behavior = have even more bad behavior.

We tried amnesty already multiple times before and those amnesties did NOT work (we have even MORE ILLEGALS now than in 1980s).

Also, you still have NOT answer my question about why even bother to have immigration law if we are not going to enforce it? And why keep the smart LEGALS such as Elon Musk of Telsa out while give amnesty to no skill, no English ILLEGALS? Not very smart there, very stupid indeed.

 

[Fern]

Really?

Forcing employers to use e-verify seems like a good start.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...immigration-bill-heres-what-you-need-to-know/

What do you mean by "really"?

I linked to a legal site. We ALREADY have laws against employing illegal immigrants. We don't enforce them. When an illegal manages to get caught, we just let them go and, at best, they hope they turn up for some future court date. I.e., we aren't enforcing what we have' why just add more laws then claim "it's all fixed now!"?

E-verify seems a good idea. But I would caution people to research it. Currently there seems to be at least a couple of significant problem using it:

1. Employers get sued for using it; it's claimed to be a civil rights violation. I'm a CPA and often attend IRS seminars (not the kind with Star Wars skits and $50 dollar muffins, those are reserved for IRS employees only). The IRS has always heavily cautioned us about E-Verify due to the lawsuits. Maybe a mandatory law would negate the threat of lawsuits; IDK.

2. E-Verify's accuracy seems to be in question. Some time ago I read of a high 'false positive' rate. I.e., even though you're illegal E-Verify reports you as completely legal. This is likely due to stolen ID's etc.

Beware of simple fixes, especially those run by the govt.

Fern

 

[Fern]

You don't think big "your" business wants dirt cheap labor? They "really" don't want to send them back.

I see this claim about "big business' hiring illegals yet no evidence is offered.

I've seen small businesses busted for illegal workers, meat plants etc, and surely farmers use it.

When Big Business wants cheap labor they just outsource it overseas. I really doubt Big Business uses illegal labor, who happen to be unskilled. What use could big Pharma, big banks, GM and Ford, Apple or IBM etc have for unskilled labor, whether legal or not?

Fern

 

[Fern]

Job#1 - Get rid of the reason folks immigrate here illegally: JOBS. Without employers hiring illegals, there would be no reason for them to want to come to the USA. Then the borders can be just as they are without having to worry at all about illegals crossing en masse under the radar.

Just for the fact that there are untold millions of illegals not only being able to survive in the USA, but are also able to send home millions of $$$ annually back to their homelands shows where the main cause of illegal immigration lies: They have jobs that pay enough to make a living, even while hiding from ICE. For the desperate, that's all they need to know.

We can lock down our borders all we want, but if the jobs are available, illegals will find a way in. If they have no jobs to find here, they will go somewhere else, or they will want to go through legal means to become citizens to get jobs that are available to them through that process.

We already have laws against the hiring of illegal laborers. See my post #154. But just like other immigration laws they go unenforced. Enacting more laws that will go unenforced will do nothing but give politicians 'cover' to claim that they've done something about it.

Fern

 

[nixium]

So you support the senate bill?

I actually do, with some modifications. No increase in overall immigrant levels, and a better guarantee than a 30% reduction in illegal immigration. Something like 60% would be better otherwise this same problem will repeat itself over and over again.

 

[trenchfoot]

We already have laws against the hiring of illegal laborers. See my post #154. But just like other immigration laws they go unenforced. Enacting more laws that will go unenforced will do nothing but give politicians 'cover' to claim that they've done something about it.

Fern

Yes, I know there are laws already on the books for penalizing employers who hire illegals.

However, as you had mentioned, these laws have flaws. New laws need to be authored or present laws need to be amended/repealed in order to make these laws ironclad, simplified and totally enforceable.

Methinks the laws now addressing the issue of hiring illegals were purposely left weak and full of holes so as to either placate those that want illegals to keep pouring in for votes or for those that desire slave labor for fun and profit.

Seeing as if neither side of the aisle have an interest in turning the minority vote against them or having the availability of dirt cheap labor turned away at the border, I really can't see the gov't seriously turning on the businesses that give our politicians millions of $$$ in campaign donations and clamping down on them from hiring those illegals that they have literally become dependent upon. Especially after these businesses for decades have had these illegals so easily available and be able to so easily skirt the laws meant to prevent such hirings.

edit - I haven't done any research into what Obama's intentions are or what his executive actions would include other than amnesty. But as with Reagan and Bush, I can see where Obama feels giving amnesty, along with added restrictions or bringing "clarification" to existing laws is just about the easiest way out for him to deal with this issue.

 

[feralkid]

I love all the libs jumping on board this illegal amnesty program.

Just shows you really don't care about poor people. All you care about is government dependents voting for democrats.

Why do you think both Reagan and Papa Bush did the exact same thing Obama is about to do?

 

[IGBT]

time to import more liberal grievance mongers.

 

[michal1980]

Did you even read your link?

Again, when resources are limited the president has the authority to prioritize where those resources go. You want to know how to combat that? Congress can pass a budget that insures there are enough resources so things don't have to be prioritized.

Let me know when you are ready for your next civics lesson

When losing move the goal posts.

 

[michal1980]

Why do you think both Reagan and Papa Bush did the exact same thing Obama is about to do?

they didn't.