Obama to order immunity for young illegal immigrants

[fskimospy]

what is the difference?

You apply for the work permit.
If it either granted or not.
Obama has removed an obstaclewhy it would not be granted; - legitimacy of presence.

All things being equal and legitimacy being the only road block; Obama has allowed them to be given a work permit.

You are splitting hair on the verbiage - the intent is still there.

But all things aren't equal, which is the whole point. There are myriad reasons why people can be denied work permits. Saying Obama has granted people work permits is clearly, obviously false. Saying Obama has allowed people to apply for work permits is clearly, obviously correct. If every single person who applied got one you would be correct that it's just hair splitting, but that's not the case.

Regardless, it's beside the larger point that Obama is acting in the same manner as many previous presidents that have done so without any complaint. It's just political opposition desperately searching for a way to attack Obama on an extremely popular initiative. When you can't argue substance you argue process.

 

[Svnla]

It's only an outrage here and with white males.

Oh really?

What about these LEGAL Hispanics (by CNN, a pretty liberal source and 2 years ago, not just recently) = http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2072110&highlight

Sue Schwartz says she's been called a racist so many times she doesn't mind the label anymore. If wanting immigrants to enter the country legally, like her great-grandparents from Mexico, and obey the laws of the land makes her racist, then so be it, she says firmly.

"We as Americans have the right to defend this country's laws. There's nothing racist about protecting the country," she says.

Payan, originally from Puerto Rico, hopes the law will deter future illegal immigration.
"I hope it stops trespassers and lets people know the law is the law and you cross that border illegally, it's a crime," she says.

OMG, she and other LEGAL immgrants want immigrants to enter the US LEGALLY and obey the laws of the land and she is a Hispanic? She must be a hispanic version of "uncle Tom" or "acting white" or "sold out" :biggrin:

 

[nehalem256]

But all things aren't equal, which is the whole point. There are myriad reasons why people can be denied work permits. Saying Obama has granted people work permits is clearly, obviously false. Saying Obama has allowed people to apply for work permits is clearly, obviously correct. If every single person who applied got one you would be correct that it's just hair splitting, but that's not the case.

So you are arguing that Obama allowing people to apply for work permits will have nothing to do with them actually getting them?

 

[fskimospy]

So you are arguing that Obama allowing people to apply for work permits will have nothing to do with them actually getting them?

No. Are you illiterate? How many times must this be repeated?

Ask yourself the following questions and you will understand (maybe):

Is applying for a job the same thing as getting a job?

Is applying for a work permit the same thing as being given a work permit?

Is Obama allowing people to apply for work permits or is he giving people work permits?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Oh really?

What about these LEGAL Hispanics (by CNN, a pretty liberal source and 2 years ago, not just recently) = http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2072110&highlight





OMG, she and other LEGAL immgrants want immigrants to enter the US LEGALLY and obey the laws of the land and she is a Hispanic? She must be a hispanic version of "uncle Tom" or "acting white" or "sold out" :biggrin:

Actually, no.

Most of the Hispanics that are angry about it are ones that had to work hard to get the permit/visa and they see these other guys getting in for "free" (even though it is not really granted, just delayed amnesty).

I do agree with them in "following the law", but, quite honestly, I would rather have them pay more attention to learning English than what work Visa they need to pick fruit. Not that they SHOULDN'T get them, but just a matter of priority and integration.



Still, CC's comment holds 90% true. MOST of the people complaining are white boys, politicians on the "opposing party" and a few angry people (some with known trollage records) on this and other boards.

 

[nehalem256]

No. Are you illiterate? How many times must this be repeated?

Ask yourself the following questions and you will understand (maybe):

Is applying for a job the same thing as getting a job?

Is applying for a work permit the same thing as being given a work permit?

Is Obama allowing people to apply for work permits or is he giving people work permits?

Both I would assume. He is inviting a block of illegal immigrants to apply for work permits. I would imagine that most of the members of this block will then be given work permits. Or do you think he is planning to deny all of them permits?

 

[fskimospy]

Both I would assume. He is inviting a block of illegal immigrants to apply for work permits. I would imagine that most of the members of this block will then be given work permits. Or do you think he is planning to deny all of them permits?

Well, we're making progress in that you've finally recognized that there is a difference between application and giving. Keep asking yourself those questions over and over again and see if you can make any further progress.

 

[alzan]

So now becuase your argument is dieing you have to drag the DOMA into the fold?

His gay base was putting the heat on him for not supporting them enough so he turned to ignoring a law to appease them..

Now the hispanic base was giving him heat, so he is ignoring the law.

Its all about getting the votes. If it wasn't he would have done this years ago.

I originally bought DOMA into the discussion in post 378 as a quantifier to your nonsensical statement that Obama would not enforce voting laws. If you have evidence that the President will not be enforcing voting laws please present it.

He has tried to do something about immigration laws in the last 3.5 years, something called the DREAM Act. How long has that been waiting for a vote in Congress?

 

[nehalem256]

He has tried to do something about immigration laws in the last 3.5 years, something called the DREAM Act. How long has that been waiting for a vote in Congress?

So if congress does not pass a law the President can just make it so anyway?

 

[alkemyst]

I originally bought DOMA into the discussion in post 378 as a quantifier to your nonsensical statement that Obama would not enforce voting laws. If you have evidence that the President will not be enforcing voting laws please present it.

He has tried to do something about immigration laws in the last 3.5 years, something called the DREAM Act. How long has that been waiting for a vote in Congress?

they just granted citizenship across the board to illegal haitians in Florida, giving them places to live even.

 

[werepossum]

No. Are you illiterate? How many times must this be repeated?

Ask yourself the following questions and you will understand (maybe):

Is applying for a job the same thing as getting a job?

Is applying for a work permit the same thing as being given a work permit?

Is Obama allowing people to apply for work permits or is he giving people work permits?

I do believe you've just topped "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

The new king shall be:
Obama didn't give anybody work permits, Obama simply allowed those people ineligible for work permits to apply for work permits. If they received work permits, that's pure coincidence, completely different, and certainly nothing to do with Obama.

 

[Ninjahedge]

WP, no he hasn't.

Saying you have more time to apply for a visa does not mean you will get it.

Saying you have "Tax Amnesty" does not mean you do not have to pay it.

 

[werepossum]

Actually, no.

Most of the Hispanics that are angry about it are ones that had to work hard to get the permit/visa and they see these other guys getting in for "free" (even though it is not really granted, just delayed amnesty).

I do agree with them in "following the law", but, quite honestly, I would rather have them pay more attention to learning English than what work Visa they need to pick fruit. Not that they SHOULDN'T get them, but just a matter of priority and integration.



Still, CC's comment holds 90% true. MOST of the people complaining are white boys, politicians on the "opposing party" and a few angry people (some with known trollage records) on this and other boards.

Instead of just requiring that it be mostly white people, perhaps you could work out what percentage of opposed people can be white before the President becomes entitled to unilaterally change federal law. It's clear that white people aren't 3/5 of a person in this equation, so we'd like to know exactly where we stand. It would also be nice if the equation could be reduced to two tables, (D) and (R), but if we have to take into account the race of the President as well so be it. We'll just need a sub-rule as to what percentage minority heritage brings this heightened entitlement.

 

[michal1980]

I originally bought DOMA into the discussion in post 378 as a quantifier to your nonsensical statement that Obama would not enforce voting laws. If you have evidence that the President will not be enforcing voting laws please present it.

He has tried to do something about immigration laws in the last 3.5 years, something called the DREAM Act. How long has that been waiting for a vote in Congress?

So far:

Obama stopped defending the DOMA. To gain votes.

Obama stopped enforcing immigrations laws. To gain votes.

Obama stopped Florida from checking its voter roles: To gain votes.


What proof do you have he will enforce voting laws?

So far his history has soon he likes to ignore laws whenever it can buy him a vote.

 

[michal1980]

No. Are you illiterate? How many times must this be repeated?

Ask yourself the following questions and you will understand (maybe):

Is applying for a job the same thing as getting a job?

Is applying for a work permit the same thing as being given a work permit?

Is Obama allowing people to apply for work permits or is he giving people work permits?

Do you even read or think about what you write?

Before King Obama's flip flop, illegals could not get work permits.

After king Obama's flip flop, illegals can get work permits.

 

[fskimospy]

I do believe you've just topped "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

The new king shall be:
Obama didn't give anybody work permits, Obama simply allowed those people ineligible for work permits to apply for work permits. If they received work permits, that's pure coincidence, completely different, and certainly nothing to do with Obama.

This level of ignorance is simply blowing my mind. Allowing application for work permits is not the same thing as giving someone a work permit. This is basic, basic English. In effect, this would be Bill Clinton whipping out the dictionary and telling them what the word 'is' meant because his interviewer couldn't speak English. Obama is responsible for allowing applications. He is not giving anyone a work permit. Civics 101, English 101, whatever it takes, but hit it up.

BTW, I can't help but notice you've stopped claiming Obama said he didn't have the power to do this. Glad to see it.

 

[fskimospy]

Do you even read or think about what you write?

Before King Obama's flip flop, illegals could not get work permits.

After king Obama's flip flop, illegals can get work permits.

What flip flop?

Are you now accepting that presidents have done this exact same sort of action in the past? Are they kings as well?

You can't be this stupid. I was unaware that allowing someone to apply for something was the same as giving them something. With that in mind I am going to go see if I can find an application to go play for the Eagles next season. I've always wanted to be famous.

 

[fskimospy]

Instead of just requiring that it be mostly white people, perhaps you could work out what percentage of opposed people can be white before the President becomes entitled to unilaterally change federal law.

Can you specify what federal laws Obama has unilaterally changed? Be specific. Additionally, if you believe that previous presidents have not been guilty of unilaterally changing the law when undertaking deferred actions, please specify exactly what you believe to be different. Earlier you said it was numbers. If that's the case, please tell us exactly what number is required before a law is considered 'unilaterally changed'.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Oh really?

What about these LEGAL Hispanics (by CNN, a pretty liberal source and 2 years ago, not just recently) = http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2072110&highlight





OMG, she and other LEGAL immgrants want immigrants to enter the US LEGALLY and obey the laws of the land and she is a Hispanic? She must be a hispanic version of "uncle Tom" or "acting white" or "sold out" :biggrin:

Yet 2/3 of the US public approve of it. OK! And how many of posters here that are against it, hispanic?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Instead of just requiring that it be mostly white people, perhaps you could work out what percentage of opposed people can be white before the President becomes entitled to unilaterally change federal law.

Pointless.

It's clear that white people aren't 3/5 of a person in this equation, so we'd like to know exactly where we stand.

Irrelevant slavery reference.

It would also be nice if the equation could be reduced to two tables, (D) and (R), but if we have to take into account the race of the President as well so be it. We'll just need a sub-rule as to what percentage minority heritage brings this heightened entitlement.

That was not the point of the comment.

The point was that the people that complain about it the most are the ones that are the least effected by it, but feel they need to comment on it anyway. Like Men talking about Women's Rights.

 

[Svnla]

Yet 2/3 of the US public approve of it. OK! And how many of posters here that are against it, hispanic?

When you ask the public "do you think doing something about ILLEGAL immigration is better than none/status quo", of couse, most of them would say yes.

But if you ask them this "If you have a choice between a LEGAL immigrant with skill and money, able to speak English, and can contribute right away or an ILLEGAL with zero skill and unable to speak English", I bet most would vote for the LEGALS. I haven't hear anyone to say otherwise, IRL or in here or anywhere else.

Just in my previous posts in this thread, I provided not one, not two, but several sources about other sovereign countries around the world are cracking down on ILLEGAL immigration (and welcome the LEGALS) and none of them give any breaks to the ILLEGALS. If ILLEGAL immigration were such a blessing, wonder why those countries did not roll out welcome mats to the ILLEGALS (post #362). We tried with "comprehensive reforms" in the late 80's with Reagan. Look what happend since then. Reward bad behavior/law breakers will stop the bad behavior/law breakers? LOL.

BTW, I ain't white and I am against ILLEGAL immigration with a passion and I am not alone.

Actually, no.

Most of the Hispanics that are angry about it are ones that had to work hard to get the permit/visa and they see these other guys getting in for "free" (even though it is not really granted, just delayed amnesty).

I do agree with them in "following the law", but, quite honestly, I would rather have them pay more attention to learning English than what work Visa they need to pick fruit. Not that they SHOULDN'T get them, but just a matter of priority and integration.



Still, CC's comment holds 90% true. MOST of the people complaining are white boys, politicians on the "opposing party" and a few angry people (some with known trollage records) on this and other boards.

See my reply to CC. Oh one more thing, if Obama really thinks this was the right thing to do, why he did not issue the executive order in 08 or 09? Why now? Surely just coincidence, right!!! <teeheee>.

 

[werepossum]

This level of ignorance is simply blowing my mind. Allowing application for work permits is not the same thing as giving someone a work permit. This is basic, basic English. In effect, this would be Bill Clinton whipping out the dictionary and telling them what the word 'is' meant because his interviewer couldn't speak English. Obama is responsible for allowing applications. He is not giving anyone a work permit. Civics 101, English 101, whatever it takes, but hit it up.

BTW, I can't help but notice you've stopped claiming Obama said he didn't have the power to do this. Glad to see it.

I haven't stopped claiming that Obama said he didn't have the power to do this so much as realized that doing so is pointless. You simply aren't capable of admitting that Obama (or whomever the lefty is in any particular situation) isn't absolutely, 100% correct in every situation. What is the point of posting anything if you are simply going to go into your spiral of denial? You simply refuse to accept even the most basic causality when it touches your hero, so that allowing application for work permits to people prohibited by federal law from receiving work permits is somehow totally divorced from those same people getting work permits. It's the equivalent to arguing that while I shot the victim, he died because all his blood ran out the bullet holes and that's completely unrelated to me shooting him. You've set up a system whereby Obama absolutely cannot do anything wrong. He is not only your Messiah, he's your Kim il Jung.

In your zeal to promote and defend the left you've denuded your universe of any causality, morals, or fixed ethical beliefs. Even the most intrinsically bound things are now totally separate datum points, existing in separate universes and each not even cognizant of the other's existence, much less having any connection. Frankly I'd do better arguing with a rock; the rock at least recognizes the law of gravity.

 

[fskimospy]

I haven't stopped claiming that Obama said he didn't have the power to do this so much as realized that doing so is pointless. You simply aren't capable of admitting that Obama (or whomever the lefty is in any particular situation) isn't absolutely, 100% correct in every situation.

Wow, you've really gone full spidey today. Obama claiming he didn't have the power to do this is clearly, provably false. You're right that continuing to do so is pointless, but that's because you would be perpetuating a lie. As for the rest of your hyperbolic straw man, save it.

What is the point of posting anything if you are simply going to go into your spiral of denial? You simply refuse to accept even the most basic causality when it touches your hero, so that allowing application for work permits to people prohibited by federal law from receiving work permits is somehow totally divorced from those same people getting work permits.

Delusional falsehood easily disproven by simply reading my posts in this thread.

You've set up a system whereby Obama absolutely cannot do anything wrong. He is not only your Messiah, he's your Kim il Jung.

Not sure who Kim il Jung is, but once again this is simply utterly delusional. You have read posts and participated in conversations where I have condemned Obama for doing things I considered to be wrong. This is your MO I've noticed though, you just make outrageous and insane claims and then expect people to rebut them.

In your zeal to promote and defend the left you've denuded your universe of any causality, morals, or fixed ethical beliefs. Even the most intrinsically bound things are now totally separate datum points, existing in separate universes and each not even cognizant of the other's existence, much less having any connection. Frankly I'd do better arguing with a rock; the rock at least recognizes the law of gravity.

Nice temper tantrum. I'm impressed at your ability to spin yourself up into a fine froth.

 

[michal1980]

What flip flop?

Are you now accepting that presidents have done this exact same sort of action in the past? Are they kings as well?

You can't be this stupid. I was unaware that allowing someone to apply for something was the same as giving them something. With that in mind I am going to go see if I can find an application to go play for the Eagles next season. I've always wanted to be famous.

King Obama last year said he couldn't change immigration law without congress.

King Obama this year changed the law.

Without changing the law, illegal immigrants could not get work permits.

Because King Obama changed the law, they now can.

Its very simple, please try to keep up.

 

[bfdd]

the comment "mostly white people complaining" is loaded, the country is mostly white. ps hispanics can be white too.

i had a discussion about this yesterday and a friend of mine who legally migrated to this country isn't happy about it. he thinks it's a move in the right direction, but it totally ignores the hundreds of thousands of people who legitimately or are trying to legitimately come here and gives to those who didn't.

again like I said, why do we owe them citizenship or the right to stay simply because they were dragged here by their parents? that doesn't make any fucking sense to me. we need to secure our investment and future tax base, nothing more. these people aren't owed anything, they owe us.