Obama to order immunity for young illegal immigrants

[Infohawk]

I'm saying that it's interesting that on this issue ATPN diverges strongly from mainstream American opinion and I'm wondering why it is such an unrepresentative sample. My guess would be that it's because ATPN is overwhelmingly white and male to begin with, but of course that's just a guess.

Although I happen to agree with much looser immigration policy than we have now, you are most certainly correct that overwhelming public opinion does not speak to the rightness or wrongness of a policy. Still, it's interesting that this board would be so far on the fringe on this issue.

I'm not sure 1/3 qualifies as "fringe." My guess is that women are probably more sympathetic on this issue.

 

[Infohawk]

Presumably, these young immigrant children would be added to legal payrolls and start paying taxes, and in terms of global competitiveness in future, adding new young workers to overall population profile should enhance global competitiveness of US down the road vs. countries whose overall populations are aging more quickly. e. g.:

Again, if people really believed these arguments, you'd think that Mexico would be a powerhouse right now. They have tons of young people. There are a lot of poor countries with young populations.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not sure 1/3 qualifies as "fringe." My guess is that women are probably more sympathetic on this issue.

Well to each his own on what counts as fringe. Regardless, a 2/3rds majority in America today is pretty overwhelming.

 

[Infohawk]

Well to each his own on what counts as fringe. Regardless, a 2/3rds majority in America today is pretty overwhelming.

So was the American support for the Iraq war...

 

[alkemyst]

So was the American support for the Iraq war...

and patriot act

and no knock warrants


and ....

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

I did provide examples of other countries beside Canada and Australia, nice try to cherry pick.

Again, can you or anyone provide a link or two of any developed sovereign countries on Earth that would give break to ILLEGALS? I did provide a few links to back me up, your turn.

And yes, I WILL continue to use ALL CAPS for ILLEGALS and LEGALS and not "undocumented" water down political correct bullcrap.

In other news, in the June 9, 2012 of The Economist, it has an article about immigration and how other countries such as Canada, UK, Australia, Singapore, New Zeland, et al are welcoming LEGAL immigrants with skills and money to improve their countries. And the US (per BO) is welcoming ILLEGALS with zero skill, unable to speak English, not very smart there.

From the article, 40% of Fortune 500 companies started by LEGAL immigrants or their offspring. Yup, we sure don't need any more Google, Yahoo, Intel, etc., we need more uneducated peasants to pick fruits, it should help us a bunch to compete worldwide in the future, right?

Immigration law is pretty complex (again, as denoted way earlier in this thread) and has nothing to do with gut feelings or emotions. It certainly can't be defined by an internet forum denizen or political demagogs. There are certain folks who deliberatly flaunt laws and can be classified as ILLEGALS!!!111!!!, but who knows what percentage that represents?

Now onwards and upwards!

Canada, UK, Australia, Singapore, New Zeland.....

Islands in the stream, that is what we are.....

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

OK, so a million kids compared to:

http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp?popup=true

~75 million kids is how much?

1.3%, give or take?

I know there are concentrations, but we keep dancing around the numbers. Instead of forbidding them, there should be a better way to handle them. Hell, if we got rid of the idiotic "3 strikes" rule and lowered our prison population to levels in line with the rest of the 1st world we would have more than enough money to handle this.


But again, this is not wasted money.

It is a LOT better to put in a hydroelectric plant than to keep building larger dams.

The only way to truly prevent Mexicans from coming in is to find a way to make Mexico a better place to live. If we can find a way to do that (other than throw money at them) then we would not have to spend so much cash on border patrols and the like, and we may even get more HELP from them in controlling the drug trafficking.....


But whatever, lets focus on individual points without associating them properly and feal that the boogeyman now has a Spanish accent.

Or even better, if we had comprehensive reforms we could actually implement something practical instead of puffing our chests and talking about pointless fences and armed patrols.

But no, instead we get a right-wing political party happy to engage in pointless posturing and factless sounds bites and unwilling to work with anyone else on just about anything.

 

[Infohawk]

Or even better, if we had comprehensive reforms we could actually implement something practical instead of puffing our chests and talking about pointless fences and armed patrols.

Let me guess, your practical reforms would include things like amnesty?

There are no practical limitations to the immigration discussion. You can end illegal immigration quickly by heavily punishing anybody that hires illegals, by implementing a robust national ID, and by using that ID to prevent illegals from getting public benefits or even paychecks. Some countries *gasp* even ask people for their papers once in a while.

The only limitation is willpower. The main obstacle is the business community who want cheap labor. (There are also left-wingers that oppose it but they are not the ones with power compared to the business community.)

 

[alkemyst]

they gave immunity here and free homes. Crime has gone off the chain and many of these now 'legals' getting busted in weapon imports.

this is going to be the next 'step' to grab our guns.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Let me guess, your practical reforms would include things like amnesty?

There are no practical limitations to the immigration discussion. You can end illegal immigration quickly by heavily punishing anybody that hires illegals, by implementing a robust national ID, and by using that ID to prevent illegals from getting public benefits or even paychecks. Some countries *gasp* even ask people for their papers once in a while.

The only limitation is willpower. The main obstacle is the business community who want cheap labor. (There are also left-wingers that oppose it but they are not the ones with power compared to the business community.)

You can't come up with anything better than amnesty? Really?

And a national ID is a constitutional rat hole. Good luck!

 

[Infohawk]

You can't come up with anything better than amnesty? Really?

What are you talking about? I explicitly listed some other measures. You even seemed to recognize it by referring to the national ID.

 

[Svnla]

Immigration law is pretty complex (again, as denoted way earlier in this thread) and has nothing to do with gut feelings or emotions. It certainly can't be defined by an internet forum denizen or political demagogs. There are certain folks who deliberatly flaunt laws and can be classified as ILLEGALS!!!111!!!, but who knows what percentage that represents?

Now onwards and upwards!

Canada, UK, Australia, Singapore, New Zeland.....

Islands in the stream, that is what we are.....

Let try it once more time. I know it is not hard to understand.

Again, can you or anyone provide a link or two of any developed sovereign countries on Earth that would give break to ILLEGALS?

I provide many links to back up my statements, where are your link(s)?

Oh, typical answer from your side...."complex problem"....."comprehensive reform". Did we try those "comprehensive reforms" with Reagan in the late 80's? How was the result?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

 

[nehalem256]

Immigration law is pretty complex (again, as denoted way earlier in this thread) and has nothing to do with gut feelings or emotions. It certainly can't be defined by an internet forum denizen or political demagogs. There are certain folks who deliberatly flaunt laws and can be classified as ILLEGALS!!!111!!!, but who knows what percentage that represents?

Now onwards and upwards!

Canada, UK, Australia, Singapore, New Zeland.....

Islands in the stream, that is what we are.....

~99.9% of the people illegally in the country would be my guess. You do not just say "accidently" wander across the Rio Grande. Or "accidently" overstay your visa.

 

[bfdd]

If an attempt was made by you or your family to come to the United States LEGALLY, you absolutely should be in the front of the line for any sort of "work visa" or "citizenship" program we mock up. Everyone else gets behind them and then it's a case by case basis. I'm sorry your parents brought you up from Ecuador when you were 14, but why is that any of our problems? We already paid for 4 years of schooling coming out to 40gs for you, now you feel we OWE you citizenship because "you just didn't know"? Since when is ignorance of the law allow one to flout it?

Lets be honest we want these people to be citizens because we've invested BILLIONS into them and we risk losing out on the future BILLIONS(possibly trillions) these people will produce. We wish to secure our investment and future voting bloc.

 

[alkemyst]

obama is trying to secure votes.

 

[boomerang]

Obama's Lawless Presidency Close To Totalitarianism

 

[michal1980]

OK, so a million kids compared to:

http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp?popup=true

~75 million kids is how much?

1.3%, give or take?

I know there are concentrations, but we keep dancing around the numbers. Instead of forbidding them, there should be a better way to handle them. Hell, if we got rid of the idiotic "3 strikes" rule and lowered our prison population to levels in line with the rest of the 1st world we would have more than enough money to handle this.


But again, this is not wasted money.

It is a LOT better to put in a hydroelectric plant than to keep building larger dams.

The only way to truly prevent Mexicans from coming in is to find a way to make Mexico a better place to live. If we can find a way to do that (other than throw money at them) then we would not have to spend so much cash on border patrols and the like, and we may even get more HELP from them in controlling the drug trafficking.....


But whatever, lets focus on individual points without associating them properly and feal that the boogeyman now has a Spanish accent.

with all the anchor babies kids attached to illegal parents amount to ~6% of the school going population. That adds up to billions of taxpayer dollars.

Yet people like you continualy give breaks to illegals yet never talk about the struggles, and PIA that legal immegration is.

Its obivous to anyone with a brain, Obama did this to buy votes. Nothing more.

 

[alkemyst]

the problem is these types pull out far more aid than they pay in. most of their 'cash' is wired back home while they are supported on welfare and communal living.

putting americans back to work will raise prices only short term until demand/supply equalize.

putting illegals to work is like just printing out more currency.

 

[michal1980]

Free Trade according to the dems is bad because it sends jobs overseas.

Illegal Immigration is good because it provides cheap slave labor here.

 

[nehalem256]

obama is trying to secure votes.

Why is he trying to win the votes of people who cant vote?

 

[alkemyst]

Why is he trying to win the votes of people who cant vote?

their families can and so can they once granted citizenship.

 

[IGBT]

Why is he trying to win the votes of people who cant vote?

there's no ID check to vote. You can vote as often as you want..unless your voting in a union. Unions check for ID.

 

[michal1980]

Why is he trying to win the votes of people who cant vote?

Because he wont enforce the law on who can and cannot vote.

 

[cybrsage]

~99.9% of the people illegally in the country would be my guess. You do not just say "accidently" wander across the Rio Grande. Or "accidently" overstay your visa.

The visa thing is a bit tricky. It can sometimes take many months to get a visa renewed. This can cause someone to overstay the visa while waiting for the renewal to be approved.

 

[cybrsage]

there's no ID check to vote. You can vote as often as you want..unless your voting in a union. Unions check for ID.

There is in PA now. We have one of the stricted in the nation.

In an election year rush pushed primarily by Republicans, Pennsylvania has become the 16th state to adopt a strict voter photo ID law and the ninth state to do so in the past year.

The law requires voters to produce a Pennsylvania driver's license or another government-issued photo IphilD, such as a U.S. passport, military ID, or county/municipal employee ID. The state will also accept college ID or personal care home IDs, as long as they are current and include an expiration date.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_...r-id-law-passes-in-battleground-pennsylvania/