Obama to Consider Executive Actions on Gun Violence

[MongGrel]

From what it sounds like Obama is issuing guidance to clarify how to identify if someone is really in the business of selling firearms. Right now the law simply states that you can't primarily be engaged in selling if you don't want to be considered a seller. The guidance clarifies it a bit more in defining what characteristics to look for in determining if a person is engaged in selling for business or private reasons. Things like business cards, what kind of presence they have for sales and such. What the guidelines aim to do is to catch those who say that are not but really are in the business of selling.

The problem with guidelines is that everyone interprets them in different ways. I'll have to see how this is implemented but right now I don't see anything that concerns me (from a Second Amendment POV).

+1

And more importantly, do you agree with his methods. Are you ok with the president of the United States taking unilateral action issuing executive orders to do so? Is this how our government should work?

Dubya did that almost non stop, what's the problem ?

()🙂

 

[Indus]

 

[yh125d]

I don't pay too much attention to all this really, but has anyone heard any suggestion that if universal background checks become a thing (including online), that part of that might include the ability to buy firearms online without having to go through an FFL?

 

[spacejamz]

Are there any statistics detailing where gang bangers get their weapons from? Online? gun shows? from the trunk of their local "weapon dealer's" car?

Nevermind, no one cares about black on black gang related shootings....

 

[jackstar7]

Are there any statistics detailing where gang bangers get their weapons from? Online? gun shows? from the trunk of their local "weapon dealer's" car?

Nevermind, no one cares about black on black gang related shootings....

Depends largely on the agenda of the person talking about the topic and whether gang-related shootings come up and and context within which they are discussed.

 

[BoberFett]

When will idiots stop crying about these non-existent "loopholes"?

If you buy from a dealer at a gun show or online, they are already required to do background checks. If you buy from a non-dealer, you're not required to do a background check whether it's online, at a gun show, at your house, or in the back ally behind a bar. Not only are you not required, but you're not allowed as a private seller to use the NICS system even if you wanted to.

But idiots are going to wail on about things they don't understand.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Me neither. But would you be ok with a random search of your home if you have nothing to hide? The point I'm making is that not having anything to hide isn't a very good reason to not be against it. There may be other reasons, of course...

I totally get where you're coming from. Like I said, I'm fine with the current NICS check; nothing more invasive need be done. And contrary to what some believe, if you buy a gun online and it's shipped (as opposed to a person to person purchase), it HAS to go to a person with an appropriate level Federal Firearms License (FFL).

 

[fskimospy]

When will idiots stop crying about these non-existent "loopholes"?

If you buy from a dealer at a gun show or online, they are already required to do background checks. If you buy from a non-dealer, you're not required to do a background check whether it's online, at a gun show, at your house, or in the back ally behind a bar. Not only are you not required, but you're not allowed as a private seller to use the NICS system even if you wanted to.

But idiots are going to wail on about things they don't understand.

It's odd to wonder why 'idiots' are worrying about nonexistent loopholes and then follow it up with describing exactly the loophole you claim doesn't exist.

The private seller loophole, which is what the gun show loophole is referring to absolutely exists and is a hole big enough to drive a truck through.

 

[thraashman]

It's odd to wonder why 'idiots' are worrying about nonexistent loopholes and then follow it up with describing exactly the loophole you claim doesn't exist.

The private seller loophole, which is what the gun show loophole is referring to absolutely exists and is a hole big enough to drive a truck through.

Would you expect something resembling reason from him though? I never have and I've yet to get surprised and seen the opposite.

 

[highland145]

When will idiots stop crying about these non-existent "loopholes"?

If you buy from a dealer at a gun show or online, they are already required to do background checks. If you buy from a non-dealer, you're not required to do a background check whether it's online, at a gun show, at your house, or in the back ally behind a bar. Not only are you not required, but you're not allowed as a private seller to use the NICS system even if you wanted to.

But idiots are going to wail on about things they don't understand.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37944451&postcount=28

Blame the law writing NRA.😀

 

[FerrelGeek]

I already know what you think of the EO/regulation which is why I didn't ask that particular question.

So what is your justification for thinking that it will work? Do you think that bad guys are gonna go, 'OMG!!! Obama signed an EO! Sh*t just got real!! I guess I better mend my wicked ways and go through an FFL to give the other bad guy my illegally purchased Glock!'

 

[FerrelGeek]

You are dodging the question, again.

What do I think will happen if private transfers are regulated? Not much. My guess is a new industry would pop up that would provide services to people looking to sell their arms.

There is already an industry that handles this. It's called a gun shop or a private person that happens to have a federal firearms license.

 

[highland145]

It's odd to wonder why 'idiots' are worrying about nonexistent loopholes and then follow it up with describing exactly the loophole you claim doesn't exist.

The private seller loophole, which is what the gun show loophole is referring to absolutely exists and is a hole big enough to drive a truck through.

How is it a loophole if the law says that private sellers do not have to do background checks?
S.C. (your miles will vary by state)

“Private” firearms transfers (i.e., transfers by non-firearms dealers) are not subject to a background check requirement in South Carolina.
South Carolina law prohibits knowingly selling, offering to sell, delivering, leasing, renting, bartering, exchanging, or transporting for sale into the state any handgun to a person prohibited from possessing handguns under South Carolina law.1 For a list of these individuals, see the section entitled South Carolina Prohibited Purchasers Generally.
South Carolina also prohibits any person from knowingly selling, offering, delivering, leasing, renting, bartering, exchanging a firearm to someone who is not lawfully present in the U.S.2

And the "gun show loophole" implies that there are rampant sales with no checks. That is not true. There are private party sales but I have never seen a vendor at a sale not do a background check.

 

[BoberFett]

It's odd to wonder why 'idiots' are worrying about nonexistent loopholes and then follow it up with describing exactly the loophole you claim doesn't exist.

The private seller loophole, which is what the gun show loophole is referring to absolutely exists and is a hole big enough to drive a truck through.

🙄

It's not a gun show loophole. Again, idiots trying to solve problems they clearly don't understand. If you require background checks at gun shows to close the "gun show loophole", how does that prevent somebody from selling a gun in the parking lot at WalMart?

Christ you're stupid.

 

[fskimospy]

🙄

It's not a gun show loophole. Again, idiots trying to solve problems they clearly don't understand. If you require background checks at gun shows to close the "gun show loophole", how does that prevent somebody from selling a gun in the parking lot at WalMart?

Christ you're stupid.

At least I'm smart enough not to disprove my own point in a single post. Lol.

Come on Boberfett, smarten up a little. Use your head before ranting next time.

 

[fskimospy]

How is it a loophole if the law says that private sellers do not have to do background checks?
S.C. (your miles will vary by state)

I think quibbling over the definition of loophole isn't very helpful. The things people refer to as tax loopholes are often also explicit benefits carved out in laws.

And the "gun show loophole" implies that there are rampant sales with no checks. That is not true. There are private party sales but I have never seen a vendor at a sale not do a background check.

Somewhere around 30 million+ guns were sold in the US last year from what I've read. Although estimates of private sales are not good thanks to the government refusing to find such research, old estimates put the percentage of private sales at somewhere around 30%, which would mean about 10 million private sales without a background check. Even if it's a tenth of that it's still a million a year. That's pretty rampant to me.

 

[BoberFett]

At least I'm smart enough not to disprove my own point in a single post. Lol.

Come on Boberfett, smarten up a little. Use your head before ranting next time.

🙄

You do realize words have meaning, right?

Does someone selling one gun to their neighbor constitute a gun show?

How will doing background checks online or at a gun show stop someone from selling a gun to their neighbor?

Do you have a head injury?

 

[highland145]

I think quibbling over the definition of loophole isn't very helpful. The things people refer to as tax loopholes are often also explicit benefits carved out in laws.

You're back to a general lack of understanding. The anti gun peeps should be saying "no private party sales." But they're not so the assumption is that they have no clue and/or that the outspoken anti gun peeps are intentionally misleading the sheep to get their agenda passed.

Somewhere around 30 million+ guns were sold in the US last year from what I've read. Although estimates of private sales are not good thanks to the government refusing to find such research, old estimates put the percentage of private sales at somewhere around 30%, which would mean about 10 million private sales without a background check. Even if it's a tenth of that it's still a million a year. That's pretty rampant to me.

At gun shows? By vendors? If not then "gun show loopholes" is misleading to say the least.

 

[spacejamz]

Somewhere around 30 million+ guns were sold in the US last year from what I've read.

Are these the legal gun sales that went through the normal background process? how would gun sales from private owners get counted? or someone selling weapons out the back of their van in the inner city? would those sales even count (since the gun had already been purchased previously)?

 

[fskimospy]

You're back to a general lack of understanding. The anti gun peeps should be saying "no private party sales." But they're not so the assumption is that they have no clue and/or that the outspoken anti gun peeps are intentionally misleading the sheep to get their agenda passed.

I'm genuinely confused as to why the name matters to you.

At gun shows? By vendors? If not then "gun show loopholes" is misleading to say the least.

No by private parties, some of which are at gun shows, a place where private parties without any prior relationship can reasonably be expected to meet and make background check free exchanges.

You appear to be only objecting to the name, which seems pointless? Okay, let's call it the private sale loophole and then close that one too. Better?

 

[highland145]

Are these the legal gun sales that went through the normal background process? how would gun sales from private owners get counted? or someone selling weapons out the back of their van in the inner city? would those sales even count (since the gun had already been purchased previously)?

The left just wants to track the people that have guns so when/if they pass some dumb ass law like the Brits did, they know who to jail/fine for non compliance.

 

[fskimospy]

Are these the legal gun sales that went through the normal background process? how would gun sales from private owners get counted? or someone selling weapons out the back of their van in the inner city? would those sales even count (since the gun had already been purchased previously)?

Something like 23 million registered gun sales last year, so I figured with private sales that's probably closer to 30 million based on the following: the 30% estimate is based on polling gun owners/purchasers as to how they got their guns. It's not a very exact estimate at all, but even if it's off by an order of magnitude you're still talking a shitload of guns. That's 'rampant' to me.

 

[fskimospy]

🙄

You do realize words have meaning, right?

Does someone selling one gun to their neighbor constitute a gun show?

How will doing background checks online or at a gun show stop someone from selling a gun to their neighbor?

Do you have a head injury?

The gun show loophole refers to the private sales loophole:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Gun show loophole, gun law loophole, Brady law loophole (or Brady bill loophole), private sale loophole, or private sale exemption is a political term in the United States referring to sales of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, dubbed the "secondary market".

You're trying to bluster your way out of saying something dumb. Best to stop while you're less far behind.

 

[highland145]

I'm genuinely confused as to why the name matters to you.



No by private parties, some of which are at gun shows, a place where private parties without any prior relationship can reasonably be expected to meet and make background check free exchanges.

You appear to be only objecting to the name, which seems pointless? Okay, let's call it the private sale loophole and then close that one too. Better?

Why hide behind a lie other than to mislead the sheep and push an agenda? Why not ban "parking lot gun sales" or driveway gun sales" or "neighbor gun sales"? I would bet that the vast majority of your estimated 10M were sold in those places.

 

[fskimospy]

Why hide behind a lie other than to mislead the sheep and push an agenda? Why not ban "parking lot gun sales" or driveway gun sales" or "neighbor gun sales"? I would bet that the vast majority of your estimated 10M were sold in those places.

A lie? Hardly. If you're wondering why political terms are crafted to be politically advantageous I don't know what to tell you.

I imagine people originally called it the gun show loophole because 1. these types of transfers undoubtedly happen at gun shows and 2. because Americans in a lot of places probably think of people who go to gun shows as kind of nutty.