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Obama to announce Iraq troop draw down today.

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senseamp said:
Generals are there to fight wars that the political leadership wants to fight, who gives a sh!t what their stance on it is? We aren't paying for wars to keep the generals happy.
I sure hope it's political. Decision to start and and wars is supposed to be a political decision.
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Once a politician decides to enter into a war, they have no business running the show if they intend on seeing it through. While they certainly have the power to withdraw troops, they need to defer to the Generals if they have any intent on doing the job correctly.

The Iraq parliment would not grant immunity for the soldiers if they stayed. It's their country.
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I didn't know that and, after reading an article about it, I definitely understand. I just hope that the Iraq parliament knows what they are asking because it is unlikely we will help them out should things start to deteriorate after we withdraw.

It is going to be a mess no matter what we do or when we leave. We have spent more than enough time, money, and lives in Iraq. They can either take it from here or fall on their faces. I honestly don't care either way.
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While it appears that the decision is out of the US's hands, you really should care either way. If Iraq should deteriorate significantly, increased terrorist activity will certainly make people care. Like I said earlier, I hope the Iraqi parliament knows what they are asking and that they are able to stand on their own...

-GP
 
Ausm said:
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

All those young lives wasted 🙁

Trillions and Trillions of dollars wasted too 🙁
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While they may not be used in the way you consider to be honorable, none of them were certainly wasted. Have you even bothered to look at the condition of Iraq now compared to during Hussein?

Regardless of your views on whether we should have been there or not, no one can say that thing are worse or have maintained the status quo since we went in...

-GP
 
Gamingphreek said:
While they may not be used in the way you consider to be honorable, none of them were certainly wasted. Have you even bothered to look at the condition of Iraq now compared to during Hussein?

Regardless of your views on whether we should have been there or not, no one can say that thing are worse or have maintained the status quo since we went in...

-GP
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Who the fuck cares. Shouldn't have been there, period.

Now we're whining about paying for it all.
 
Gamingphreek said:
While they may not be used in the way you consider to be honorable, none of them were certainly wasted. Have you even bothered to look at the condition of Iraq now compared to during Hussein?

Regardless of your views on whether we should have been there or not, no one can say that thing are worse or have maintained the status quo since we went in...

-GP
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It was never any of our fucking business. Pretending it was some kind of humanitarian mission is disingenuous as best.

see also: widespread genocide in Africa we somehow overlooked in favor of "saving" Iraqis.
 
Gamingphreek said:
I would love to know the stance of his Generals on this plan. Somehow I doubt it will be positive. It sounds purely political, though I hope it isn't.
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It is all political. Iran has already been proven to be stirring up sectarian violence in Iraq. Do you think they will leave by 2011 as well? Do you think Turkey will leave Northern Iraq?

Bush screwed the pooch when he agreed with bremer to fire the whole Iraqi army shortly after Saddam was toppled. these last 8 years seems like it was just an attempt to fix that debacle.

Iraq will erupt in bloodshed... unless the current PM can rule with an iron fist like saddam.. all the different groups will lead Iraq into a worse place than it is now. I hope I am wrong.
 
MooseNSquirrel said:
Anxiously awaiting for financially responsible Republicans to support raising taxes to finally pay for this war!
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HAHAHA me too! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

That's why the Republican's never included the cost of the Wars on the budget because they thought it would magically fade away ......
 
Ausm said:
HAHAHA me too! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

That's why the Republican's never included the cost of the Wars on the budget because they thought it would magically fade away ......
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And then Obama puts the war on budget and Republicans bitch about how much he increased spending!
 
Patranus said:
How would cutting off "adult baby's" SSI check and forcing him to contribute to society negatively impact employment numbers?
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So we're spending 1 trillion on "adult baby's"?

If they can "contribute" to society so easily (i.e. get a job), should not be a problem for the returning troops then. Also, the "savings" from the war will help the economy, right?
 
Engineer said:
Who the fuck cares. Shouldn't have been there, period.

Now we're whining about paying for it all.
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Fausto said:
It was never any of our fucking business. Pretending it was some kind of humanitarian mission is disingenuous as best.

see also: widespread genocide in Africa we somehow overlooked in favor of "saving" Iraqis.
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While a little bit more.... that will solve all the problems. Yup, we should all dwell on the past instead of trying to figure out how solve the problems of today - regardless of how they came about....

Not saying it is humanitarian at all. All I'm saying is that the situation in Iraq is MUCH better now than it was during Hussein. So you can have your opinions on whether or not we should have been there. You can have your opinions on whether or not this was the most efficient use of the US's money. You can't; however, deny that Iraq is a much better place now - thus the money/lives weren't wasted.

rudder said:
It is all political. Iran has already been proven to be stirring up sectarian violence in Iraq. Do you think they will leave by 2011 as well? Do you think Turkey will leave Northern Iraq?

Bush screwed the pooch when he agreed with bremer to fire the whole Iraqi army shortly after Saddam was toppled. these last 8 years seems like it was just an attempt to fix that debacle.

Iraq will erupt in bloodshed... unless the current PM can rule with an iron fist like saddam.. all the different groups will lead Iraq into a worse place than it is now. I hope I am wrong.
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Iran has a lot bigger problems to worry about now with the plot thickening after the assassination attempts.

I would hope that Turkey would honor the boundaries of that nation, but I hardly think their purpose is to stir up trouble.

Saying that any nation needs a person who you compare to Saddam is a pretty dumb statement. I also don't think you can say that the US's decision to fire the Iraqi army was stupid unless you have been briefed with the entire situation. What might make perfect sense to us, isn't always the best decision when you have all the facts.

-GP
 
HomerJS said:
And then Obama puts the war on budget and Republicans bitch about how much he increased spending!
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I don't think either party has attributed the spending associated with the war to Obama.

The spending attributed with Obama consists of "Job's Bill", Bailouts, Cash for Clunkers, National Healthcare, etc... not the war.

-GP
 
Whether it's of his own volition or Maliki's strong-arming, I don't care. Good to know we'll soon have one less foot in the world's oily litterbox.
 
Engineer said:
I'm at the opinion it was all a waste. You can believe whatever the fuck you want. Maybe we can all now get a tax raise to finally pay for it. Are you for that too?
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Waste implies that nothing positive came out of something. Are you really saying that not a single positive thing came out of it? Are you really that pessimistic in life?

No, I'm not for a tax raise at all. Maybe if the government stopped this:
The spending attributed with Obama consists of "Job's Bill", Bailouts, Cash for Clunkers, National Healthcare, etc... not the war.
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We wouldn't be in as big of a hole as we are now. (This is not to say that the Iraq war didn't contribute to the financial hole we are in now. It is simply saying that it is part of many items that dug the hole as deep as it is)

-GP
 
Gamingphreek said:
While they may not be used in the way you consider to be honorable, none of them were certainly wasted. Have you even bothered to look at the condition of Iraq now compared to during Hussein?

Regardless of your views on whether we should have been there or not, no one can say that thing are worse or have maintained the status quo since we went in...

-GP
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Oh so now that Iraq has a Hotel Hilton that should justify the deaths of these soldiers? I got to run that one past my next door neighbor whose child got turned into liquid jelly by an IED on Patrol in Iraq.

On second thought , maybe not because I don't want to get punched in the mouth!
 
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Gamingphreek said:
Not saying it is humanitarian at all. All I'm saying is that the situation in Iraq is MUCH better now than it was during Hussein. So you can have your opinions on whether or not we should have been there. You can have your opinions on whether or not this was the most efficient use of the US's money. You can't; however, deny that Iraq is a much better place now - thus the money/lives weren't wasted.
-GP
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How and it what ways is it better? Saddam Hussein isn't in power and hence isn't torturing people any more. So that's one way.

Is the economy/standard of living better there?

Is the populace in general safer or less safe from violence?

Is government corruption greater or lesser now than before?

Is the situation more or less politically stable than it was before?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm inviting you to make your case. Honestly I'd rather that you be right than wrong.

- wolf
 
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