Obama supports extending Patriot act provisions.

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: AAjax

Topic Title: Obama supports extending Patriot act provisions.
Topic Summary: Wants goverment to continue to keep records of what books you read.


Well, I guess this shouldn't be any big surprise as he voted to extend once before. Oh well, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Horseshit

He has ObamaCare on the table now.

If he started working on an Obama Act to replace the Patriot Act you mother fuckers would be raising cane that he's working too many big issues at once.

I think it is a great Fuck you on Obama's part and keep loving your heroes Patriot Act.

I'll take lame excuses for $400, Alex!

Cool, ready to leave the game?

You're right Dave. When it comes to the lame excuses category, I couldn't hope to compete with the master of lame excuses -- you.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

I can't wait until they have control of our health care...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Engineer


I would just assume them to throw this turd out and start over. At least they are willing to work with Congress in adding better civil liberties protections in there, but it's still a turd. Perfume on a turd doesn't make it any better.

We'd need to impeach him first before we can replace him/start over.

another idiotic comment from the village idiot wannabee...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

DING
It's a fundamental principle of public policy - all public offices seek to increase size and leverage.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

of course.

I am very dispointed that Obama is not much diffrent then Bush was. The patriot act is a bad law.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

of course.

I am very dispointed that Obama is not much diffrent then Bush was. The patriot act is the single worst law in America.

Fixed the end for you.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

This.

That's one of the reasons I'm against things like the patriot act and government health care. No matter how much of a disaster something turns out to be, once the government has power it will never ever give it up.

You mean we've never seen deregulation?

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

This.

That's one of the reasons I'm against things like the patriot act and government health care. No matter how much of a disaster something turns out to be, once the government has power it will never ever give it up.

You mean we've never seen deregulation?

Deregulation usually only applies to government approved monopolies.. not the government themselves.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

This.

That's one of the reasons I'm against things like the patriot act and government health care. No matter how much of a disaster something turns out to be, once the government has power it will never ever give it up.

You mean we've never seen deregulation?

Deregulation usually only applies to government approved monopolies.. not the government themselves.

You mean we've never deregulated public utilities?

I also never knew that investment banks were government-approved monopolies.

 

[brandonbull]

The entire "Patriot" Act needs to be cancelled. Had the government done it's job and enforced laws on the books, 9/11 would not have happend. Instead we need more laws instead of enforcing the current ones.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

This.

That's one of the reasons I'm against things like the patriot act and government health care. No matter how much of a disaster something turns out to be, once the government has power it will never ever give it up.

You mean we've never seen deregulation?

Deregulation usually only applies to government approved monopolies.. not the government themselves.

You mean we've never deregulated public utilities?

I also never knew that investment banks were government-approved monopolies.

they only do it if it benifites themselvs. such as if they think it will lead to another vote, mor campaing "donations" etc.

many times when the goverment has deregulated such things as public utilites you will find members of congress are getting millions in donations. Same fromt he bankers. look at where most end up working ..

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

This.

That's one of the reasons I'm against things like the patriot act and government health care. No matter how much of a disaster something turns out to be, once the government has power it will never ever give it up.

You mean we've never seen deregulation?

Deregulation usually only applies to government approved monopolies.. not the government themselves.

You mean we've never deregulated public utilities?

I also never knew that investment banks were government-approved monopolies.

they only do it if it benifites themselvs. such as if they think it will lead to another vote, mor campaing "donations" etc.

many times when the goverment has deregulated such things as public utilites you will find members of congress are getting millions in donations. Same fromt he bankers. look at where most end up working ..

Doesn't change the fact that these industries were deregulated. The government does give up power. If it was to get campaign contributions to win more elections, then we must assume that campaign spending is closely correlated to election results. If this is true, the problem lies not with government, but with the voters.

A Congressman taking a position at a private company after deregulating that company's industry is the worst form of corruption in my opinion. If a company is lobbying Congress to deregulate, it means they foresee greater profits from deregulation, not lower profits that we would expect in a perfectly competitive (and now more mobile) market. It means there has been some sort of market failure.

I hate the Patriot Act. I hope that the provisions that remain suffer severe limitations, but we'll have to wait and see. I'd prefer it be eliminated completely. I am not disappointed with Obama because Obama is a politician. It is much the same way I am not disappointed when my cat wakes me up every night to play, it's what cats do.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Once government has power, it doesn't want to give it up.

of course.

I am very dispointed that Obama is not much diffrent then Bush was. The patriot act is a bad law.

Not all of the Patriot Act is bad.

Being able to share legally gathered information between intelligence agencies is a good thing --- along with the money-laundering stuff. I believe it also expanded border security.

But portions of the electronic surveillance provisions just plain suck and the underlying premise of the NSLs clearly violates the 4th amendment (among others).

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: jonks
Doesn't look like these provisions have been abused thus far, unlike National Security Letters which issued demands for information and basically told the recipient that they couldn't contact anyone, even a lawyer, to discuss the subpoena. I believe thousands had been issued, and almost none ever challenged. I also believe the courts eventually threw out the provision as unconstitutional.

"Although the FBI has had the ability to issue NSLs for many years, the Patriot Act, enacted in October 2001, significantly relaxed the rules for using them while increasing the secrecy requirements. The result has been a surge in NSL requests, from fewer than 9,000 in 2000 to nearly 50,000 in 2005, according to Justice Department records."

So the NSL provision has been removed?

IIRC, the provisions in the PA which made it superduper easy to send out NSLs were ruled unconstitutional and stricken from the Act. NSLs can still be issued but not in the same heavy handed manner. I'll bet there didn't send out 50,000 after they had to actually substantiate why they wanted such records.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: jonks
....and the rest of the article not posted in OP:

In a letter to lawmakers, Justice Department officials said the administration supports extending the three expiring provisions of the law, although they are willing to consider additional privacy protections as long as they don't weaken the effectiveness of the law.

Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote Sen. Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, that the administration is willing to consider stronger civil rights protections in the new law "provided that they do not undermine the effectiveness of these important (provisions)."

Leahy responded with a statement saying it is important for the administration and Congress to "work together to ensure that we protect both our national security and our civil liberties."

The committee has scheduled a hearing next week on the Patriot Act.

From 2004 to 2007, the business records provision was used 220 times, officials said. Most often, the business records were requested in combination with requests for phone records.

The lone wolf provision was created to conduct surveillance on suspects with no known link to foreign governments or terrorist groups. It has never been used, but the administration says it should still be available for future investigations.

The roving wiretaps provision was designed to allow investigators to quickly monitor the communications of a suspects who change their cell phone or communication device, without investigators having to go back to court for a new court authorization. That provision has been used an average of 22 times a year, officials said.

Michelle Richardson of the American Civil Liberties Union called the administration's position "a mixed bag," and said that the group hopes the next version of the Patriot Act will have important safeguards on other issues, particularly the collecting of international communications, and a specific bar on surveillance of protected First Amendment activities like peaceful protests or religious assembly.

"We're heartened they're saying they're willing to work with Congress," Richardson said, adding that is "definitely a sea change from what we've seen in the past."

Doesn't look like these provisions have been abused thus far, unlike National Security Letters which issued demands for information and basically told the recipient that they couldn't contact anyone, even a lawyer, to discuss the subpoena. I believe thousands had been issued, and almost none ever challenged. I also believe the courts eventually threw out the provision as unconstitutional.

"Although the FBI has had the ability to issue NSLs for many years, the Patriot Act, enacted in October 2001, significantly relaxed the rules for using them while increasing the secrecy requirements. The result has been a surge in NSL requests, from fewer than 9,000 in 2000 to nearly 50,000 in 2005, according to Justice Department records."

Then what were the libs bitchin about 8 years ago for?

BTW, I'm not a fan of the Act.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm extremely disappointed with Obama regarding the the Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Won't you ever just throw them out?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: jonks
....and the rest of the article not posted in OP:

In a letter to lawmakers, Justice Department officials said the administration supports extending the three expiring provisions of the law, although they are willing to consider additional privacy protections as long as they don't weaken the effectiveness of the law.

Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote Sen. Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, that the administration is willing to consider stronger civil rights protections in the new law "provided that they do not undermine the effectiveness of these important (provisions)."

Leahy responded with a statement saying it is important for the administration and Congress to "work together to ensure that we protect both our national security and our civil liberties."

The committee has scheduled a hearing next week on the Patriot Act.

From 2004 to 2007, the business records provision was used 220 times, officials said. Most often, the business records were requested in combination with requests for phone records.

The lone wolf provision was created to conduct surveillance on suspects with no known link to foreign governments or terrorist groups. It has never been used, but the administration says it should still be available for future investigations.

The roving wiretaps provision was designed to allow investigators to quickly monitor the communications of a suspects who change their cell phone or communication device, without investigators having to go back to court for a new court authorization. That provision has been used an average of 22 times a year, officials said.

Michelle Richardson of the American Civil Liberties Union called the administration's position "a mixed bag," and said that the group hopes the next version of the Patriot Act will have important safeguards on other issues, particularly the collecting of international communications, and a specific bar on surveillance of protected First Amendment activities like peaceful protests or religious assembly.

"We're heartened they're saying they're willing to work with Congress," Richardson said, adding that is "definitely a sea change from what we've seen in the past."

Doesn't look like these provisions have been abused thus far, unlike National Security Letters which issued demands for information and basically told the recipient that they couldn't contact anyone, even a lawyer, to discuss the subpoena. I believe thousands had been issued, and almost none ever challenged. I also believe the courts eventually threw out the provision as unconstitutional.

"Although the FBI has had the ability to issue NSLs for many years, the Patriot Act, enacted in October 2001, significantly relaxed the rules for using them while increasing the secrecy requirements. The result has been a surge in NSL requests, from fewer than 9,000 in 2000 to nearly 50,000 in 2005, according to Justice Department records."

Then what were the libs bitchin about 8 years ago for?

BTW, I'm not a fan of the Act.

Probably because of the potential for abuse in addition to the actual abuse, the fact that the administration brushed off any and all claims of privacy invasion, that the admin ignored any attempts at oversight or calls for transparency, that it used signing statements to sidestep limits congress passed in laws, etc. And the fact that the admin steadily eroded any reservoir of good will from 2003 onwards. And When you say libs, I hope you mean libertarians also.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sigh...

Won't they ever just throw out the Patriot Act? It is total horse shit.

Won't you ever just throw them out?

We did last November.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Won't you ever just throw them out?

We did last November.

No, last November you flipped the coin. Same problem upheld by mostly the same people.

When I say throw them out, I mean you need to make both the Republicans and Democrats minority parties. Only if that happens will change occur.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Won't you ever just throw them out?

We did last November.

No, last November you flipped the coin. Same problem upheld by mostly the same people.

When I say throw them out, I mean you need to make both the Republicans and Democrats minority parties. Only if that happens will change occur.

Well when that's feasible I'll consider it but for now I'll just be happy keeping the Republicans in the minority as all this mess was started with them.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Well when that's feasible I'll consider it but for now I'll just be happy keeping the Republicans in the minority as all this mess was started with them.

For the sake of the country, please reconsider your opinion. It is short sighted and partisan to attack a single incumbent party when we have two incumbent parties.

Failure to hold them both accountable is a failure equal to holding neither of them accountable. Particularly since one of them is guaranteed to still hold power, doing nothing more than bidding time until the other resumes where it left off.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Well when that's feasible I'll consider it but for now I'll just be happy keeping the Republicans in the minority as all this mess was started with them.

For the sake of the country, please reconsider your opinion. It is short sighted and partisan to attack a single incumbent party when we have two incumbent parties.

Failure to hold them both accountable is a failure equal to holding neither of them accountable. Particularly since one of them is guaranteed to still hold power, doing nothing more than bidding time until the other resumes where it left off.

I'll hold the Dems accountable but there's no need to put the party of fail, the GOP, back in power because of it.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'm extremely disappointed with Obama regarding the the Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay.

See, Obama is bringing us all together in a common distaste for business as usual.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Well that about does it for Obama - he's all out of reasons why 'at least he's better than Bush'.

Fvck 'im.