Obama Spend-o-Rama

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
It amuses me that families making over $250k are considered rich. It also amuses me that people think raising taxes helps the economy.

For those of us making 1/10th that, it seems pretty rich...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: joshsquall
It amuses me that families making over $250k are considered rich. It also amuses me that people think raising taxes helps the economy.

It's a myth that lowering taxes helps the economy. Consumers spending money at Wal Mart isn't the only thing that drives the economy... You think government spending means they throw the cash in barrels and burn it? In reality the majority of government spending is on American employees or American goods, which cannot be said about consumer spending.

I also think folks like joshsquall could use some perspective. I agree that low taxes don't always mean a strong economy, but even if they did, since when is the one and only purpose of our country to ensure a strong economy? Sure, it's a positive and it should be a consideration...but it sure as hell shouldn't be the only one. If we're able to do things that really matter in the world, I'm OK with BMW selling a few less cars to stock brokers. Hell, I'm OK with MY taxes being a little higher if it means poor kids get health care or we can help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: RY62
-snip-
?The Obama Spend-o-Rama? proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Sen. Barack Obama?s (D-Ill.) presidential campaign.

Every day here in P&N I see constant complaints by the anti-Obama side that he's all "Hope & Change", an "empty suit" with no proposals etc.

I hope they're reading this thread and see he's already put forth 188 spending proposals; at least 111 of which are detailed enough to budget.

Personally, I'm surprised. I watch a LOT of news programs, yet I doubt I've heard of even half of these proposals. 188 proposals WTH?

Fern

 

[ProfJohn]

Ok...

Let's say that Obama wins and the Bush tax cuts go away in 2010, although they pass a bill that allows us 'poor' people to keep our part so only people making more than $100k a year pay more income taxes.

And let's say that Obama gets us out of Iraq in 2010 as well.

The tax increase will raise maybe $50 billion more a year and the end of the war will save us $100 billion a year. So the grand total is $150 billion more a year to spend for FY 2011... wooohooo happy days are here again.

Except... our current projected deficit for 2011 is already $94 billion and with the economic slow down all current and future projections are going to be off.

So at the end of the day no war and a tax increase leaves us with perhaps a $50 billion surplus IF we are very lucky. Sadly, $50 billion isn't going to go very far when Obama has already pledged $300 billion in extra spending.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: joshsquall
It amuses me that families making over $250k are considered rich. It also amuses me that people think raising taxes helps the economy.

It's a myth that lowering taxes helps the economy. Consumers spending money at Wal Mart isn't the only thing that drives the economy... You think government spending means they throw the cash in barrels and burn it? In reality the majority of government spending is on American employees or American goods, which cannot be said about consumer spending.

I also think folks like joshsquall could use some perspective. I agree that low taxes don't always mean a strong economy, but even if they did, since when is the one and only purpose of our country to ensure a strong economy? Sure, it's a positive and it should be a consideration...but it sure as hell shouldn't be the only one. If we're able to do things that really matter in the world, I'm OK with BMW selling a few less cars to stock brokers. Hell, I'm OK with MY taxes being a little higher if it means poor kids get health care or we can help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa.

Since the economy is the number one issue on the minds of polled voters right now, it should be a very high priority for our leaders. There's going to need to be a balancing act between fixing the economy, reducing government debt, and providing services. We'll all have our opinions as to what's most important but, in the end, they're all important. I don't mind my taxes going up, for a while, if the government would slash wasteful spending and try to reduce the debt.

Mindless rambling to follow:
Call me crazy but, I don't think people who don't pay taxes should have a say in raising them or as to how they're spent. For voting in any federal election, a person should have to prove that they actually pay federal income taxes. Anyone over 18 could still vote state and local elections where they most likely pay state and local sales taxes. I know it's a pipe dream but I wonder if things would be any different if the people that actually contribute to the system were the only ones to say how it should work.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: joshsquall
It amuses me that families making over $250k are considered rich. It also amuses me that people think raising taxes helps the economy.

It's a myth that lowering taxes helps the economy. Consumers spending money at Wal Mart isn't the only thing that drives the economy... You think government spending means they throw the cash in barrels and burn it? In reality the majority of government spending is on American employees or American goods, which cannot be said about consumer spending.

I also think folks like joshsquall could use some perspective. I agree that low taxes don't always mean a strong economy, but even if they did, since when is the one and only purpose of our country to ensure a strong economy? Sure, it's a positive and it should be a consideration...but it sure as hell shouldn't be the only one. If we're able to do things that really matter in the world, I'm OK with BMW selling a few less cars to stock brokers. Hell, I'm OK with MY taxes being a little higher if it means poor kids get health care or we can help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa.

Last time I checked I don't live in Africa. Yes, it sucks that the rest of the world has it's problems but they don't pay MY taxes.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: RY62
-snip-
?The Obama Spend-o-Rama? proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Sen. Barack Obama?s (D-Ill.) presidential campaign.

Every day here in P&N I see constant complaints by the anti-Obama side that he's all "Hope & Change", an "empty suit" with no proposals etc.

I hope they're reading this thread and see he's already put forth 188 spending proposals; at least 111 of which are detailed enough to budget.

Personally, I'm surprised. I watch a LOT of news programs, yet I doubt I've heard of even half of these proposals. 188 proposals WTH?

Fern

It is a surprise, isn't it. Now we have to answer a couple of glaring questions. Are the proposals just empty campaign promises (typical politician)? If not, how the heck are we going to pay for them?

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
It amuses me that families making over $250k are considered rich. It also amuses me that people think raising taxes helps the economy.

I don't personally know a single person who even makes 100k a year.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: RY62
-snip-
?The Obama Spend-o-Rama? proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Sen. Barack Obama?s (D-Ill.) presidential campaign.

Every day here in P&N I see constant complaints by the anti-Obama side that he's all "Hope & Change", an "empty suit" with no proposals etc.

I hope they're reading this thread and see he's already put forth 188 spending proposals; at least 111 of which are detailed enough to budget.

Personally, I'm surprised. I watch a LOT of news programs, yet I doubt I've heard of even half of these proposals. 188 proposals WTH?

Fern

I remember John Edwards had a policy book that pretty much laid out everything he was going to try to do. Not sure if it's still available on his website still.

Barack Obama published it all too.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: RY62
-snip-
?The Obama Spend-o-Rama? proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Sen. Barack Obama?s (D-Ill.) presidential campaign.

Every day here in P&N I see constant complaints by the anti-Obama side that he's all "Hope & Change", an "empty suit" with no proposals etc.

I hope they're reading this thread and see he's already put forth 188 spending proposals; at least 111 of which are detailed enough to budget.

Personally, I'm surprised. I watch a LOT of news programs, yet I doubt I've heard of even half of these proposals. 188 proposals WTH?

Fern

It is a surprise, isn't it. Now we have to answer a couple of glaring questions. Are the proposals just empty campaign promises (typical politician)? If not, how the heck are we going to pay for them?

You want to ask such a question but you will vote for McCain, who will continue the war in Iraq and continue to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined?

Let's be honest here. You don't give a damn about these proposals and we all know it.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: RY62
-snip-
?The Obama Spend-o-Rama? proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Sen. Barack Obama?s (D-Ill.) presidential campaign.

Every day here in P&N I see constant complaints by the anti-Obama side that he's all "Hope & Change", an "empty suit" with no proposals etc.

I hope they're reading this thread and see he's already put forth 188 spending proposals; at least 111 of which are detailed enough to budget.

Personally, I'm surprised. I watch a LOT of news programs, yet I doubt I've heard of even half of these proposals. 188 proposals WTH?

Fern

It is a surprise, isn't it. Now we have to answer a couple of glaring questions. Are the proposals just empty campaign promises (typical politician)? If not, how the heck are we going to pay for them?

You want to ask such a question but you will vote for McCain, who will continue the war in Iraq and continue to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined?

Let's be honest here. You don't give a damn about these proposals and we all know it.

Actually, I will care a great deal about these proposals if Obama is elected. I pay taxes and I'm just as pissed off as anyone about the runaway spending that's been going on, and is proposed to increase, in Washington.

Put your anger aside and lets try to have a reasonable discussion. I personally believe either of the 3 candidates are going to have to deal with Iraq in a way that will keep us there for a while. Immediate withdrawal sounds good on the campaign stump but I just don't see it happening without dire consequences.

As for McCain continuing to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined...
Lay out his spending proposals, let's discuss it and maybe we'll all be better informed.

 

[Coldkilla]

All I care is: If we are posed with a choice between for example: Going to war without warrent, or going to war with a just cause - it is the judgement that matters. Hillary's emotions get ahead of her and that's not what I want in a leader.

Now as for the people suggesting that the only reason Obama is doing well because of his money, think of it this way..

Spending Money = Spending Money Given. Money Given = small donors that support the campaign.
Hillary having less donors = less support = less money to spend.
Simple as that. Obama has every right to out spend her, even 4 to 1 if he felt like it.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
All I care is: If we are posed with a choice between for example: Going to war without warrent, or going to war with a just cause - it is the judgement that matters. Hillary's emotions get ahead of her and that's not what I want in a leader.

Now as for the people suggesting that the only reason Obama is doing well because of his money, think of it this way..

Spending Money = Spending Money Given. Money Given = small donors that support the campaign.
Hillary having less donors = less support = less money to spend.
Simple as that. Obama has every right to out spend her, even 4 to 1 if he felt like it.

Please read the thread before posting.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: RY62
-snip-
?The Obama Spend-o-Rama? proposes funding 111 of the 188 spending proposals put out so far during Sen. Barack Obama?s (D-Ill.) presidential campaign.

Every day here in P&N I see constant complaints by the anti-Obama side that he's all "Hope & Change", an "empty suit" with no proposals etc.

I hope they're reading this thread and see he's already put forth 188 spending proposals; at least 111 of which are detailed enough to budget.

Personally, I'm surprised. I watch a LOT of news programs, yet I doubt I've heard of even half of these proposals. 188 proposals WTH?

Fern

It is a surprise, isn't it. Now we have to answer a couple of glaring questions. Are the proposals just empty campaign promises (typical politician)? If not, how the heck are we going to pay for them?

You want to ask such a question but you will vote for McCain, who will continue the war in Iraq and continue to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined?

Let's be honest here. You don't give a damn about these proposals and we all know it.

Actually, I will care a great deal about these proposals if Obama is elected. I pay taxes and I'm just as pissed off as anyone about the runaway spending that's been going on, and is proposed to increase, in Washington.

Put your anger aside and lets try to have a reasonable discussion. I personally believe either of the 3 candidates are going to have to deal with Iraq in a way that will keep us there for a while. Immediate withdrawal sounds good on the campaign stump but I just don't see it happening without dire consequences.

As for McCain continuing to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined...
Lay out his spending proposals, let's discuss it and maybe we'll all be better informed.

Do you have a link to an itemized spending list for Obama's 188 proposals?

That would be a good starting point as well.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: RY62

As for McCain continuing to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined...
Lay out his spending proposals, let's discuss it and maybe we'll all be better informed.

His spending proposals consist of us sitting in the middle of a civil war in iraq until we "win"

I actually liked McCain when he was that voice of reason during Gdubs horrible leadership but anybody who wants to stay in that country for one second longer then need to just gtfo is on my no no list. Honestly with the way my feelings are on this issue i would support a mass hunt down of any person in this country who thought this war was a good idea, every person who has profited from it and hang them all. Not very liberal I know and not very realistic but to think that anybody could support staying there after all this bs is mind boggling. He doesn't deserve to be president today although I really wish he was president on 9/11. Instead we have that retard in office.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RY62

As for McCain continuing to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined...
Lay out his spending proposals, let's discuss it and maybe we'll all be better informed.

His spending proposals consist of us sitting in the middle of a civil war in iraq until we "win"

I actually liked McCain when he was that voice of reason during Gdubs horrible leadership but anybody who wants to stay in that country for one second longer then need to just gtfo is on my no no list. Honestly with the way my feelings are on this issue i would support a mass hunt down of any person in this country who thought this war was a good idea, every person who has profited from it and hang them all. Not very liberal I know and not very realistic but to think that anybody could support staying there after all this bs is mind boggling. He doesn't deserve to be president today although I really wish he was president on 9/11. Instead we have that retard in office.

So you're going to hang the majority of US citizens and the majority of congress?

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Do you have a link to an itemized spending list for Obama's 188 proposals?

That would be a good starting point as well.

i haven't seen an itemized list of these proposals with what each would cost. I would guess that most of them are probably listed on his website, although I don't know if he'd show the expected costs.

Unfortunately, I'm limited to dial-up access right now so I can't do much searching. I did come across the following site that claims to be sort of a fact check on Obama spending. http://www.politifact.com/trut...truth-o-meter-part-ii/
On that site they list some of the proposals and dispute RNC projections that the costs would be $874.4 Billion, saying that they actually amount to $459 Billion. The linked article is from Feb 29th so I'd assume things have changed a bit.

I have heard Obama say that the money for his spending proposals will come from ending the Iraq war, cutting tax breaks for corporations, taxing carbon pollution and raising taxes on high income earners but, if these numbers are accurate, I think he's still going to come up real short.

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: RY62

As for McCain continuing to bleed America more than bin Laden ever imagined...
Lay out his spending proposals, let's discuss it and maybe we'll all be better informed.

His spending proposals consist of us sitting in the middle of a civil war in iraq until we "win"

I actually liked McCain when he was that voice of reason during Gdubs horrible leadership but anybody who wants to stay in that country for one second longer then need to just gtfo is on my no no list. Honestly with the way my feelings are on this issue i would support a mass hunt down of any person in this country who thought this war was a good idea, every person who has profited from it and hang them all. Not very liberal I know and not very realistic but to think that anybody could support staying there after all this bs is mind boggling. He doesn't deserve to be president today although I really wish he was president on 9/11. Instead we have that retard in office.

So you're going to hang the majority of US citizens and the majority of congress?

It would be a majority for sure. If I remember correctly, polling data showed that 70% of Americans were in favor of the Iraq war, at the time we went in. Poll them now and I'd bet 90% would say they were against it from the start. I know I was against going in but I'm also against pulling out too quickly. I'd hope we could leave it better than we found it.

 

[JSt0rm]

I said its not realistic. Thats how I feel about the issue not how i act.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I said its not realistic. Thats how I feel about the issue not how i act.

So? I still think it's absolutely moronic that you FEEL that we should hang the majority of US citizens and the majority of congress. Maybe you would FEEL more at home in a country where they actually do hang people whose opinions disagree with that of the state, eh comrade?

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I said its not realistic. Thats how I feel about the issue not how i act.

So? I still think it's absolutely moronic that you FEEL that we should hang the majority of US citizens and the majority of congress. Maybe you would FEEL more at home in a country where they actually do hang people whose opinions disagree with that of the state, eh comrade?

You are who again? I don't really care what you "think".

how about you just be pro-war and lets debate that, eh?

anybody who resorts to calling someone a commy as a personal attack is a idiot.

I looked up that quote of yours about sigmund freud and its fake. Just like you.

edit: Let me just add that i think its disgusting that people like you keep quotes like that in your name to pass that off as truth. You are part of the reason we have so many idiots in this country. You spread false truths to further your own misguided goals. pathetic.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I said its not realistic. Thats how I feel about the issue not how i act.

So? I still think it's absolutely moronic that you FEEL that we should hang the majority of US citizens and the majority of congress. Maybe you would FEEL more at home in a country where they actually do hang people whose opinions disagree with that of the state, eh comrade?

You are who again? I don't really care what you "think".

If you don't care what anyone thinks, then why are you posting on a message board?

how about you just be pro-war and lets debate that, eh?

Maybe because I'm not pro-war. I think that we should leave Iraq as soon as possible.

anybody who resorts to calling someone a commy as a personal attack is a idiot.

You just said that you FEEL that I should be hanged along with the majority of US citizens and the majority of congress, and you think that I am an idiot because I called you a name? LOL. BTW, you just resorted to name calling....

I looked up that quote of yours about sigmund freud and its fake. Just like you.

So you say that you don't care what I think, yet you care enough to google a quote in my sig......

edit: Let me just add that i think its disgusting that people like you keep quotes like that in your name to pass that off as truth. You are part of the reason we have so many idiots in this country. You spread false truths to further your own misguided goals. pathetic.

Actually, you are right about the quote, thank's for pointing that out. It's an honest mistake, although you seem to think that I did it intentionally for some reason. I'll cite the full history of the quote since you want to be dishonest about the whole thing and make it seem like I made it up...

From Wiki

Misattributed

* A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
o This is not is not a statement that appears in any translation of any of Freud's works. It is a paraphrase of a statement from the essay "Guns, Murders, and the Constitution" (February 1990) by Don B. Kates, Jr. where Kates summarizes his views of passages in Dreams in Folklore (1958) by Freud and David E. Oppenheim, while disputing statements by Emmanuel Tanay in "Neurotic Attachment to Guns" in a 1976 edition of The Fifty Minute Hour: A Collection of True Psychoanalytic Tales (1955) by Robert Mitchell Lindner:

Dr. Tanay is perhaps unaware of ? in any event, he does not cite ? other passages more relevant to his argument. In these other passages Freud associates retarded sexual and emotional development not with gun ownership, but with fear and loathing of weapons. The probative importance that ought to be attached to the views of Freud is, of course, a matter of opinion. The point here is only that those views provide no support for the penis theory of gun ownership.

Due to misreading of this essay and its citations, this paraphrase of an opinion about Freud's ideas has been wrongly attributed to Freud himself, and specifically to his 10th Lecture "Symbolism in Dreams" in General Introduction to Psychoanalysis on some internet forum pages

So as you can see, while the quote has been misattributed to Freud by MANY people, it does adequately portray his feelings on the fear of weapons. Either way, I'll take it out of my sig since it is not what Freud actually said.

So if I'm "disgusting" because I made an honest mistake and misquoted someone, what does that make you for "FEELING" like hanging around 200,000,000 of your fellow citizens?

Edit - Well, maybe less than 200,000,000, since that's counting children who probably didn't really have an opinion of the Iraq war at the time, but that still leaves you "feeling" like hanging well over one hundred million of your fellow citizens. Congrats...:thumbsup:

Edit 2 - Wow, I just noticed that at one point you even suggested throwing all Republicans into an internment camp, looks like I was dead on when I called you a commie.

 

[JSt0rm]

I know you didn't make it up. How could i of googled the quote to tell its fake if you made it up to use on anandtech? You don't have the insight to look up things before believing them and that tells me volumes about you. Anyways you say you aren't pro war - cool.

i looked up the quote because I don't accept things on face value.

Its not that I don't care what anyone thinks. It's that i don't care what people who's argument is the knee jerk "your a commie". This is how we ended up in this war. Nobody wanted to speak up and get out of line for fear of being called unpatriotic (what you just did to me). however I am more patriotic because i care more for American soldiers lives and American treasure then I do for the people who sent them there. I believe these people are war profiteers and not true Americans. Hence my FEELINGS.

I said that it isn't a reality but anger is anger and I'm fucking mad. I'm mad because of the loss of life on both sides. I'm mad because of the debt our children's children will be paying for this war. I'm mad about all of the lies our "government" has told us. And you call me a commie? I called you a idiot for that response.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I know you didn't make it up. How could i of googled the quote to tell its fake if you made it up to use on anandtech? however you don't have the insight to look up things before believing them and that tells me volumes about you. Anyways you aren't pro war - cool.

i looked up the quote because I don't accept things on face value.

Its not that I don't care what anyone thinks. It's that i don't care what people who's argument is the knee jerk "your a commie". This is how we ended up in this war. Nobody wanted to speak up and get out of line for fear of being called unpatriotic (what you just did to me). however I am more patriotic because i care more for American soldiers lives and American treasure then I do for the people who sent them there. I believe these people are war profiteers and not true Americans. Hence my FEELINGS.

I said that it isn't a reality but anger is anger and I'm fucking mad. I'm mad because of the loss of life on both sides. I'm mad because of the debt our children's children will be paying for this war. I'm mad about all of the lies our "government" has told us. And you call me a commie? I called you a idiot for that response.

Stop with the strawman bullshit. I didn't call you a commie or unpatriotic because you are against the war, or because your mad about these "lies". I called you a commie because you "feel" that we should hang over half of the country and the majority of congress. That's not a "knee jerk" reaction, that's a valid response to someone suggesting mass murder you sicko.

Either keep your sick fantasies of mass murder and sending the opposing political party to internenment camps to yourself, or deal with people calling you a communist. It's pretty simple.

 

[JSt0rm]

your silly