Obama seeks $634B over 10 years for health care

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: Carmen813

I've been through a similar situation. My wife had Leukemia at age 20. I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma at 21. I'm now 24 and just entering the work force. My treatment cost around $800,000. My wife's was well over $1.2 million. These types of illnesses are debilitating when they happen, and can cause complete financial ruin very quickly. After finishing treatment, they make you question why you fought so hard to survive in the first place. We are both as healthy as we're likely to get now, and I've worked hard to finish college and begin looking for a job. We aren't asking for freebies, we're asking for a chance to succeed.

This is going to sound a bit insensitive but do you think you and your wife's productivity over your lifetime is worth 2 million?

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: chucky2

There is absoFinglutely no way that having UHC is going to prevent people from eating bad, not going to the Dr. instead of just saying "F it, I don't feel like going", etc. This is America. Keep dreaming in a fantasy world if you think UHC is going to get Shaniqua or Bubba to put down the fried chicken and fish, or Willard to not go to McD's on his stock exchange lunch break and load up on a McGreaser, then hit Starbucks up and load up on a $9 super duper healthy latte.

Chuck

Well put.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Carmen813

I've been through a similar situation. My wife had Leukemia at age 20. I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma at 21. I'm now 24 and just entering the work force. My treatment cost around $800,000. My wife's was well over $1.2 million. These types of illnesses are debilitating when they happen, and can cause complete financial ruin very quickly. After finishing treatment, they make you question why you fought so hard to survive in the first place. We are both as healthy as we're likely to get now, and I've worked hard to finish college and begin looking for a job. We aren't asking for freebies, we're asking for a chance to succeed.

This is going to sound a bit insensitive but do you think you and your wife's productivity over your lifetime is worth 2 million?

*sarcasm* Well I suppose we could just send all cancer patients into the gas chambers.

To answer your question, yes, I absolutely do believe that over the course of our lifetimes we can produce/consume significantly more than 2 million dollars worth of goods/services. We aren't leeches, and we should live a relatively normal lifespan.

That 2 million dollars that was spent on us wasn't just set on fire and burned. It went to paying hospitals, doctors, nurses, technicians, pharmaceutical companies, ect. Perhaps if we had a better healthcare system it could have been done for less, but it wasn't money that just disappeared into the night.

There is a stigma on this forum that in order to become ill, you must have done something wrong. In many cases this is simply not true. I was an Air Force ROTC cadet who had scored outstanding on my last physical fitness exam before I was diagnosed (about a year prior). My wife was also a cadet. I have never taken drugs, smoked cigarettes, and rarely drink alcohol. My cancer was not a genetic condition, there is no history of cancer in my family, or Emily's for that matter. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. The societal "nets" we have in place need serious reform. As I said earlier, once I start working I will have lower quality health care than Medicaid. It shouldn't be like that.

I still believe that UHC will have a significant impact on affecting change to important societal health issues, such as obesity. I don't expect it to offer a cure all fix that makes everything better over night, and obviously there is a large amount of personal responsibility that comes into play. However if done properly it can be a first step to addressing the problem. As I said, poor people are often the most obese. This stems from the fact that fast-food restaurants are often well placed in poor neighborhoods, where as grocery stores are not. If you do not have transportation available to you a shopping trip can eat up over 8 hours of your day. There are also a lot of parents who frankly are terrible at raising children.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Carmen813

I've been through a similar situation. My wife had Leukemia at age 20. I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma at 21. I'm now 24 and just entering the work force. My treatment cost around $800,000. My wife's was well over $1.2 million. These types of illnesses are debilitating when they happen, and can cause complete financial ruin very quickly. After finishing treatment, they make you question why you fought so hard to survive in the first place. We are both as healthy as we're likely to get now, and I've worked hard to finish college and begin looking for a job. We aren't asking for freebies, we're asking for a chance to succeed.

This is going to sound a bit insensitive but do you think you and your wife's productivity over your lifetime is worth 2 million?

How would you propose that we measure that?

The systems with nationalized health care do many things to keep costs down, but one of them is not to limit care to people with cancer. They do:

1. Make you wait when waiting won't seriously impair your health;
2. Limit use of some care, such as the provision of oxygen to COPD patients;
3. Don't always give you state of the art care or drugs.
4. Mix people in large wards in hospitals instead of putting them into private rooms like some spa.
5. Limit the use of specialists and impose waiting periods to see them.
6. And much more to limit costs.

Carmen's care in the NHS would have been significantly less costly.

-Robert

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: Carmen813

I've been through a similar situation. My wife had Leukemia at age 20. I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Lymphoma at 21. I'm now 24 and just entering the work force. My treatment cost around $800,000. My wife's was well over $1.2 million. These types of illnesses are debilitating when they happen, and can cause complete financial ruin very quickly. After finishing treatment, they make you question why you fought so hard to survive in the first place. We are both as healthy as we're likely to get now, and I've worked hard to finish college and begin looking for a job. We aren't asking for freebies, we're asking for a chance to succeed.

This is going to sound a bit insensitive but do you think you and your wife's productivity over your lifetime is worth 2 million?

How would you propose that we measure that?

The systems with nationalized health care do many things to keep costs down, but one of them is not to limit care to people with cancer. They do:

1. Make you wait when waiting won't seriously impair your health;
2. Limit use of some care, such as the provision of oxygen to COPD patients;
3. Don't always give you state of the art care or drugs.
4. Mix people in large wards in hospitals instead of putting them into private rooms like some spa.
5. Limit the use of specialists and impose waiting periods to see them.
6. And much more to limit costs.

Carmen's care in the NHS would have been significantly less costly.

-Robert

Ultimately to me, healthcare should be a shared risk amongst the entire population. However, people have to make a collective choice to be healthier.

I think reforms in the healthcare system is absolutely needed, however I sincerely doubt that our government can run it "right". I honestly don't think UHS will solve anything, and it'll be heavily abused like any other entitlements promised by the government.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So UHC will cut health care workers wages eh? So the republicans were right to cry "socialist" after all. I have a daughter who has the potential to be a very good physician. If your desire bears fruit I'll urge her to choose another career like many others. We don't want to be your lackies. What will you do when the best decide not to play the serf? You'll lower the standards and ten mediocre will be the norm.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
So UHC will cut health care workers wages eh? So the republicans were right to cry "socialist" after all. I have a daughter who has the potential to be a very good physician. If your desire bears fruit I'll urge her to choose another career like many others. We don't want to be your lackies. What will you do when the best decide not to play the serf? You'll lower the standards and ten mediocre will be the norm.

We're already there Hayabusa... I try to talk out most people out of going into medicine as the american public believes that health care should be FREE. Nurses should be paid $30K per year. Docs should be only making $50K per year after 11 years MINIMUM of after high school training & 80 hour work weeks. But the People's True Workers, the union workers should be paid $100K per year as they're doing the people's work. There's only a select FEW in the population who would be willing to go through the training and make $50K wages. But it's ok we'll soon have the "People's Doctors" The accelerated program in which we'll graduate you from medical school at 21 and just skip Residency and learn on the job. That way we'll quadruple the number of docs coming out per year so we can earn a "honest People's wage"

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
So UHC will cut health care workers wages eh? So the republicans were right to cry "socialist" after all. I have a daughter who has the potential to be a very good physician. If your desire bears fruit I'll urge her to choose another career like many others. We don't want to be your lackies. What will you do when the best decide not to play the serf? You'll lower the standards and ten mediocre will be the norm.

We're already there Hayabusa... I try to talk out most people out of going into medicine as the american public believes that health care should be FREE. Nurses should be paid $30K per year. Docs should be only making $50K per year after 11 years MINIMUM of after high school training & 80 hour work weeks. But the People's True Workers, the union workers should be paid $100K per year as they're doing the people's work. There's only a select FEW in the population who would be willing to go through the training and make $50K wages. But it's ok we'll soon have the "People's Doctors" The accelerated program in which we'll graduate you from medical school at 21 and just skip Residency and learn on the job. That way we'll quadruple the number of docs coming out per year so we can earn a "honest People's wage"

Have you compared:

1. Physicians wages in the USA compared to Physician wages in the UK, considering that the UK physician need not spend $50K a year on malpractice insurance?
2. Compared USA nurses wages to UK nurses wages?
3. Compared UK Physician's and nurses wages to the general population?

I think you would find out that doctors in the UK are doing just fine, and ditto for nurses. Their biggest complaints are the patient loads and the bureaucracy, not their salaries.

If you check Canada, Australia, Japan, and Western Europe, you will see the same general trend.

I'd hazard to guess that 99% of Americans think doctors should earn more than machinists. I'd agree. On the other hand, doctors earning a million dollars a year reading xrays and MRIs seems a bit excessive.

Also, I think medical school should be free to those who meet the entrance requirements.

-Robert

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
So UHC will cut health care workers wages eh? So the republicans were right to cry "socialist" after all. I have a daughter who has the potential to be a very good physician. If your desire bears fruit I'll urge her to choose another career like many others. We don't want to be your lackies. What will you do when the best decide not to play the serf? You'll lower the standards and ten mediocre will be the norm.

We're already there Hayabusa... I try to talk out most people out of going into medicine as the american public believes that health care should be FREE. Nurses should be paid $30K per year. Docs should be only making $50K per year after 11 years MINIMUM of after high school training & 80 hour work weeks. But the People's True Workers, the union workers should be paid $100K per year as they're doing the people's work. There's only a select FEW in the population who would be willing to go through the training and make $50K wages. But it's ok we'll soon have the "People's Doctors" The accelerated program in which we'll graduate you from medical school at 21 and just skip Residency and learn on the job. That way we'll quadruple the number of docs coming out per year so we can earn a "honest People's wage"

Have you compared:

1. Physicians wages in the USA compared to Physician wages in the UK, considering that the UK physician need not spend $50K a year on malpractice insurance?
2. Compared USA nurses wages to UK nurses wages?
3. Compared UK Physician's and nurses wages to the general population?

I think you would find out that doctors in the UK are doing just fine, and ditto for nurses. Their biggest complaints are the patient loads and the bureaucracy, not their salaries.

If you check Canada, Australia, Japan, and Western Europe, you will see the same general trend.

I'd hazard to guess that 99% of Americans think doctors should earn more than machinists. I'd agree. On the other hand, doctors earning a million dollars a year reading xrays and MRIs seems a bit excessive.

Also, I think medical school should be free to those who meet the entrance requirements.

-Robert

Well when you find MDs making a million a years for reading MRIs let me know. If that's what they are earning then their last name is House.

So out of curiosity, what do you do for a living? Let's play the same game.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Oh yeah I just compared the UK vs. US pay system for docs and it's crazy your docs are paid about the same as a UAW senior worker at GM lol!. "Consultants" or Attending docs at hospitals earn 75K pounds per year which after your income tax system kicks in only get 50K pounds which converts to about $71000 per year and add a 17% sales tax on top! No wonder all the best and brightest Brits become bankers instead (and we all know how that worked out) And you mention docs earning $1,000,000 per year reading MRI's, you must be only watching 90210 plastic surgeons as most radiologists earn about $300-500K, most General practitioners earn about $120-170K per year. VERY VERY RARE to see an MD earning 7 figure income unless you're a writer or a well known neurosurgeon (which BTW can take up to 16 years of training after high school to practice.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
Oh yeah I just compared the UK vs. US pay system for docs and it's crazy your docs are paid about the same as a UAW senior worker at GM lol!. "Consultants" or Attending docs at hospitals earn 75K pounds per year which after your income tax system kicks in only get 50K pounds which converts to about $71000 per year and add a 17% sales tax on top! No wonder all the best and brightest Brits become bankers instead (and we all know how that worked out) And you mention docs earning $1,000,000 per year reading MRI's, you must be only watching 90210 plastic surgeons as most radiologists earn about $300-500K, most General practitioners earn about $120-170K per year. VERY VERY RARE to see an MD earning 7 figure income unless you're a writer or a well known neurosurgeon (which BTW can take up to 16 years of training after high school to practice.

We have a friend who was a pediatrician in private practice. In her state they cut reimbursements to the point that she was earning a negative income after expenses, part of which were due to GOVERNMENT required paperwork. Of course she had to let people go, and at some point when this very dedicated person spent most of her personal wealth in trying keep things going, she closed her practice and went into teaching, where she earns a net positive income.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Also, I'm starting to think that perhaps McCain would have been the better choice, although I can scarce believe I'm saying that. I knew that Obama was going to pursue UHC at some point, and I hoped that he would put a physician, or maybe a few individuals representing various aspects of health care in charge. Politics should be subservient to health care in this case. So who does he appoint? A career politician who from his own lips demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of how medicine works. At that point I pretty much gave up on a decent UHC system here in the US. Of course people who have no first hand knowledge will say it isn't so, no doubt drawing on their own personal lack of data as evidence.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
Oh yeah I just compared the UK vs. US pay system for docs and it's crazy your docs are paid about the same as a UAW senior worker at GM lol!. "Consultants" or Attending docs at hospitals earn 75K pounds per year which after your income tax system kicks in only get 50K pounds which converts to about $71000 per year and add a 17% sales tax on top! No wonder all the best and brightest Brits become bankers instead (and we all know how that worked out) And you mention docs earning $1,000,000 per year reading MRI's, you must be only watching 90210 plastic surgeons as most radiologists earn about $300-500K, most General practitioners earn about $120-170K per year. VERY VERY RARE to see an MD earning 7 figure income unless you're a writer or a well known neurosurgeon (which BTW can take up to 16 years of training after high school to practice.

Doctors in the UK are employees of the state and get a host of benefits doctors in the USA do not get. Doctors do not pay for malpractice insurance in the UK either, a fact you are conveniently forgetting. I played regularly with a doctor at a tennis club in West Sussex and he is about 55 years old, more or less, and earns over 125,000 pounds a year.

As for radiologists earning over a million a year, quite a few are doing it. If you read xrays at a hospital and don't own your own practice, which would be unusual today, you will be making considerably less. But radiologists are well paid in the USA. Yes, I agree that too many plastic surgeons are way overpaid. I also agreed that a lot of GPs are woefully underpaid here, plus they have huge case loads and must deal with the crazyiness of insurors.

If you have current and comparable data on UK physician pay versus American physician pay, then why didn't you produce it?


-Robert

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
Oh yeah I just compared the UK vs. US pay system for docs and it's crazy your docs are paid about the same as a UAW senior worker at GM lol!. "Consultants" or Attending docs at hospitals earn 75K pounds per year which after your income tax system kicks in only get 50K pounds which converts to about $71000 per year and add a 17% sales tax on top! No wonder all the best and brightest Brits become bankers instead (and we all know how that worked out) And you mention docs earning $1,000,000 per year reading MRI's, you must be only watching 90210 plastic surgeons as most radiologists earn about $300-500K, most General practitioners earn about $120-170K per year. VERY VERY RARE to see an MD earning 7 figure income unless you're a writer or a well known neurosurgeon (which BTW can take up to 16 years of training after high school to practice.

Doctors in the UK are employees of the state and get a host of benefits doctors in the USA do not get. Doctors do not pay for malpractice insurance in the UK either, a fact you are conveniently forgetting. I played regularly with a doctor at a tennis club in West Sussex and he is about 55 years old, more or less, and earns over 125,000 pounds a year.

As for radiologists earning over a million a year, quite a few are doing it. If you read xrays at a hospital and don't own your own practice, which would be unusual today, you will be making considerably less. But radiologists are well paid in the USA. Yes, I agree that too many plastic surgeons are way overpaid. I also agreed that a lot of GPs are woefully underpaid here, plus they have huge case loads and must deal with the crazyiness of insurors.

If you have current and comparable data on UK physician pay versus American physician pay, then why didn't you produce it?


-Robert

What do you do for a living?

 

[theeedude]

If that's only going to cover half, why isn't he asking for 1.3 Trillion? $130B per year to cover everyone is not all that much in comparison to what we are spending on the bank bailouts.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: senseamp
If that's only going to cover half, why isn't he asking for 1.3 Trillion? $130B per year to cover everyone is not all that much in comparison to what we are spending on the bank bailouts.

It would cost more than $130B per month to cover everybody.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax
Oh yeah I just compared the UK vs. US pay system for docs and it's crazy your docs are paid about the same as a UAW senior worker at GM lol!. "Consultants" or Attending docs at hospitals earn 75K pounds per year which after your income tax system kicks in only get 50K pounds which converts to about $71000 per year and add a 17% sales tax on top! No wonder all the best and brightest Brits become bankers instead (and we all know how that worked out) And you mention docs earning $1,000,000 per year reading MRI's, you must be only watching 90210 plastic surgeons as most radiologists earn about $300-500K, most General practitioners earn about $120-170K per year. VERY VERY RARE to see an MD earning 7 figure income unless you're a writer or a well known neurosurgeon (which BTW can take up to 16 years of training after high school to practice.

Doctors in the UK are employees of the state and get a host of benefits doctors in the USA do not get. Doctors do not pay for malpractice insurance in the UK either, a fact you are conveniently forgetting. I played regularly with a doctor at a tennis club in West Sussex and he is about 55 years old, more or less, and earns over 125,000 pounds a year.

As for radiologists earning over a million a year, quite a few are doing it. If you read xrays at a hospital and don't own your own practice, which would be unusual today, you will be making considerably less. But radiologists are well paid in the USA. Yes, I agree that too many plastic surgeons are way overpaid. I also agreed that a lot of GPs are woefully underpaid here, plus they have huge case loads and must deal with the crazyiness of insurors.

If you have current and comparable data on UK physician pay versus American physician pay, then why didn't you produce it?


-Robert

In terms of physicians fees radiologists make about 2-400K per year, if theyre making millions its because they own the facility and equipment and are charging for those as well. In that case theyre not only physicians, but businesspeople as well.

In a similar vein, farmers produce food which everyone needs to eat. Food is a more basic necessity than medical care so all food should be free and farmers should work for free. Same with carpenters, masons, and bricklayers, since shelter is very important to live in the US.

The US has a crappy public transit system so cars are a necessity. Cars should be free and the people who make them should work for free. Ditto the gas and the employees of the oil companies.

Ill have to echo PTX's sentiments that many Docs in CA who voted for Obama are starting to get really pissed. Not that I was stupid enough to do that, but you can see the tide stating to turn against him.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: senseamp
If that's only going to cover half, why isn't he asking for 1.3 Trillion? $130B per year to cover everyone is not all that much in comparison to what we are spending on the bank bailouts.

It would cost more than $130B per month to cover everybody.

Are you having problems with math or reading?

WASHINGTON ? President Barack Obama's first budget will seek $634 billion over 10 years as a down payment on health care reform ? a little more than half what it may ultimately cost to provide every American with medical coverage.

$634B*2/10 = $126B/year = $11B/month

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: senseamp
If that's only going to cover half, why isn't he asking for 1.3 Trillion? $130B per year to cover everyone is not all that much in comparison to what we are spending on the bank bailouts.

It would cost more than $130B per month to cover everybody.

Are you having problems with math or reading?

WASHINGTON ? President Barack Obama's first budget will seek $634 billion over 10 years as a down payment on health care reform ? a little more than half what it may ultimately cost to provide every American with medical coverage.

$634B*2/10 = $126B/year = $11B/month

And you actually beleive the governments numbers?

Heath care costs for the US totalled over 2 trillion last year, not counting care that was unreimbursed. Expanding care would increase demand which would put upward pressure on the figure while supposed "governmental efficiencies" would decrease that number. Assuming it stays the same.

2trillion/12= ~170 billion/mo

 

[Carmen813]

I think before we continue pontificating on this issue we should all take a few minutes to actually read what Obama has proposed. You can find it here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/asset.aspx?AssetId=733

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: senseamp
If that's only going to cover half, why isn't he asking for 1.3 Trillion? $130B per year to cover everyone is not all that much in comparison to what we are spending on the bank bailouts.

It would cost more than $130B per month to cover everybody.

Are you having problems with math or reading?

WASHINGTON ? President Barack Obama's first budget will seek $634 billion over 10 years as a down payment on health care reform ? a little more than half what it may ultimately cost to provide every American with medical coverage.

$634B*2/10 = $126B/year = $11B/month

And you actually beleive the governments numbers?

Heath care costs for the US totalled over 2 trillion last year, not counting care that was unreimbursed. Expanding care would increase demand which would put upward pressure on the figure while supposed "governmental efficiencies" would decrease that number. Assuming it stays the same.

2trillion/12= ~170 billion/mo

Most of those are already covered by Medicare, etc. This is the additional money needed to cover the uninsured.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

In terms of physicians fees radiologists make about 2-400K per year, if theyre making millions its because they own the facility and equipment and are charging for those as well. In that case theyre not only physicians, but businesspeople as well.

In a similar vein, farmers produce food which everyone needs to eat. Food is a more basic necessity than medical care so all food should be free and farmers should work for free. Same with carpenters, masons, and bricklayers, since shelter is very important to live in the US.

The US has a crappy public transit system so cars are a necessity. Cars should be free and the people who make them should work for free. Ditto the gas and the employees of the oil companies.

Ill have to echo PTX's sentiments that many Docs in CA who voted for Obama are starting to get really pissed. Not that I was stupid enough to do that, but you can see the tide stating to turn against him.

If the doctors who were in CA are getting mad that Obama is following through with what he said he would do during the campaign, then those doctors are really stupid. From my recent trials and tribulations I know know quite a few doctors and associated medical personnel, most of whom voted for Obama. Not a single one of them has expressed any regrets about doing so whatsoever.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

In terms of physicians fees radiologists make about 2-400K per year, if theyre making millions its because they own the facility and equipment and are charging for those as well. In that case theyre not only physicians, but businesspeople as well.

In a similar vein, farmers produce food which everyone needs to eat. Food is a more basic necessity than medical care so all food should be free and farmers should work for free. Same with carpenters, masons, and bricklayers, since shelter is very important to live in the US.

The US has a crappy public transit system so cars are a necessity. Cars should be free and the people who make them should work for free. Ditto the gas and the employees of the oil companies.

Ill have to echo PTX's sentiments that many Docs in CA who voted for Obama are starting to get really pissed. Not that I was stupid enough to do that, but you can see the tide stating to turn against him.

If the doctors who were in CA are getting mad that Obama is following through with what he said he would do during the campaign, then those doctors are really stupid. From my recent trials and tribulations I know know quite a few doctors and associated medical personnel, most of whom voted for Obama. Not a single one of them has expressed any regrets about doing so whatsoever.

Obama hasn't told them how they must prescribe or how much they are entitled to be paid yet.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
So UHC will cut health care workers wages eh? So the republicans were right to cry "socialist" after all. I have a daughter who has the potential to be a very good physician. If your desire bears fruit I'll urge her to choose another career like many others. We don't want to be your lackies. What will you do when the best decide not to play the serf? You'll lower the standards and ten mediocre will be the norm.

I'm sorry you don't want to be 'our lackies'. Unfortunately physician salaries in the US are inflated compared to the rest of the world, and it would appear to me that a significant contributor to this is the artificial scarcity created by a lack of medical schools. The best aren't playing the serf by any leap of the imagination and you know it. While you're free to advise your daughter in any way you want, if she doesn't want to be a doctor there are thousands and thousands of people right now who do, but cannot get into medical school.

Regardless, countries with significantly lower physician salaries (and thus lower quality doctors?) achieve similar health outcomes to the US for a fraction of the cost. This is something we should look to as a guide, as it has been a far superior method of caring for a population.

Everyone here knows just as well as I do that if we were shown a privatized system that showed similar outcomes to ours while spending HALF what we currently are per capita, people would be slobbering all over it. This opposition to UHC is largely ideological in nature, and it flies in the face of a half century of evidence to the contrary.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Obama hasn't told them how they must prescribe or how much they are entitled to be paid yet.

He hasn't told you that either, but you're freaking out? His proposal puts money towards research into finding out what treatments are most effective. Sounds like a pretty good idea to me.